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Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by justinlloyd on Friday December 17, 2021 @12:11AM (#29588072)
My previous job used MS Teams with that "productivity dashboard" built in to it. I reported to multiple people within the organization. One of those people was adamant about the team being signed in and available at precisely 9AM PST and he loved his dashboard metrics. And whilst I spoke with this particular manager about this issue, he wouldn't budge on the subject and unfortunately wielded a bit too much political power to be routed around.

To sign in to MS Teams at the company you needed to run a 2FA app from your phone to get the code that would let you log in. I wrote a Python script that ran on a Raspberry Pi, that would pull the 2FA code from an Android emulator running on another machine running the 2FA app, and then the script would paste the 2FA code in to MS Teams running on the corporate laptop using a USB keyboard/mouse h/w emulator. Every morning my machine dutifully booted up, logged in, signed in at precisely 9AM and made sure it showed I was available and active throughout the day until it was "time to go home."

The company overall was pretty decent, but unfortunately there are toxic managers and little Napoleons everywhere.

Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by ChuckNorris89 on Friday December 17, 2021 @06:29AM (#29590789)
>I wrote a Python script that ran on a Raspberry Pi, that would pull the 2FA code from an Android emulator running on another machine running the 2FA app, and then the script would paste the 2FA code in to MS Teams running on the corporate laptop using a USB keyboard/mouse h/w emulator

That's amazingly brilliant, but Unfortunately it wouldn't work everywhere as in our org, the 2FA app will only be allowed to be installed on our company provided phones bound to our company issued phone numbers/SIM.

Also, depending on your company and employment agreement, if your Raspberry PI gets compromised by an attacker and uses your 2FA to gain access to your AWS account for example, and causes damage, then your employer can hang you out to dry in court.

I already saw one case where an ex-employee is being sued by his former employer because he decided to be clever and knowingly worked around the company's security policy measures, which he agreed to adhere to in his employment contract. Workaround which lead to an attacker getting his keys and stealing customer data from AWS buckets. Ouch!

Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by tyingq on Friday December 17, 2021 @09:53AM (#29592928)
Almost all of the 2FA apps are just using bog standard TOTP, and have a way of getting to the cleartext OATH seed that's needed to automate it. It's typically just a few lines of Powershell, Perl, Python, etc, to take the seed, interval, and current time to spit out the right code.

Pretty much, if they offer a phone app, you can replicate the 2FA codes yourself.

Edit: Of course, protect the seed with gpg or similar if you do this.

Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by moltar on Friday December 17, 2021 @07:25AM (#29591245)
You could automate it with a camera and OCR even if the software is locked. ;)
Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by nousermane on Friday December 17, 2021 @04:01PM (#29598304)
Yeah, "webcam pointed at a security token" is a classic:

https://smallhacks.wordpress.com/2012/11/11/reading-codes-fr...

Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by justinlloyd on Friday December 17, 2021 @01:57PM (#29596673)
Hackers would be better of looking for a flaw in the security envelope in the enterprise than in the security envelope of my internal network. I am pretty confident in stating that the only way you could compromise the Raspberry Pi is if you had physical access to it, and you'd still need to get past the encrypted filesystem and the password on the OS. I think there are higher value targets with less security than a Raspberry Pi that lets me sign in to MSTeams at a specific time of day. Would I deploy this on anything that was critical or mattered? No. Would I let one of my team deploy this on anything that was critical or mattered? Also no.

As a footnote, I can guarantee I could make it work on your company provided phones too. Even when they're locked and with a biometric scan requirement and the inability to run any non-approved software.

Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by detaro on Friday December 17, 2021 @06:30AM (#29590797)
need to automate the company phone then. Not impossible.
Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by ChuckNorris89 on Friday December 17, 2021 @06:31AM (#29590802)
Don't think iPhones are open to invasive automation tasks. At least that's their main sales pitch in regards to security vs Android that's more open to these kinds of things.
Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by justinlloyd on Friday December 17, 2021 @01:44PM (#29596438)
I created a computer vision based bot that would play an iPhone match-3 game. A lazy Saturday afternoon of work. It was fun.
Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by detaro on Friday December 17, 2021 @06:33AM (#29590831)
You can tape a touch simulator to it (or use a fake mouse, afaik that's nowadays supported) and monitor the screen with a camera. If it requires FaceID or TouchID it's getting trickier, but even that's probably doable in an environment you control.
Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by ChuckNorris89 on Friday December 17, 2021 @06:39AM (#29590866)
Or...you can take all that time and energy you'd invest building this complex Rube Goldberg machine that just proves you're present 9-5, and instead, invest it in finding a job that's not so toxic.

Seems more healthy for your mental wellbeing in the long run, as toxic policies in workplaces rarely come alone but tend to come sequentially one after another as time goes on if the terror managers don't change or enough employee don't jump ship simultaneously to trigger a management change.

Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by albrewer on Friday December 17, 2021 @11:22AM (#29594296)
> [...] instead, invest it in finding a job that's not so toxic.

Nobody's saying they're not doing that. Depending on life circumstances and where you live, it can take months to find a new job that's actually better than the one you're in, even when actively looking.

Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by xeromal on Friday December 17, 2021 @11:06AM (#29594052)
You seem to take this seriously but putting something together like this is exactly what makes programming/engineering fun. lol. I love putting together weird crap like this.
Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by justinlloyd on Friday December 17, 2021 @02:34PM (#29597270)
I build a lot of things that like that. From putting a space invaders game on my digital resume website, to an autonomous R/C car that can evade a pursuing dog that jinks left and right like a rabbit, to an internet controlled robot arm used as a cat toy, to a touch screen cat toy that exhibits predator/prey response from the feline interacting with it that results in a paper about improper toe bean rejection because there are not enough science papers written about cats interacting with touch screens, to figuring out which way up a piece of material has been loaded in to a CNC, to "open the pod bay doors" that will open my garage door, to an interactive smart home screen that monitors where my cats, phone, wallet and amazon packages are (and also displays the weather), to a multi-camera streaming setup that is voice activated "Hey producer, roll VT" that talks to me like Cortana from Halo, to a computer vision system for recognizing electronic components and sorting them into appropriate piles, to a remote operated cat litter cleaning robot arm, to cataloguing every book read, science paper digested, class attended, movie watched and album listened too since 1984. And then there is the weird stuff.
Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by detaro on Friday December 17, 2021 @06:42AM (#29590897)
Sure, but I'd apply that at the point of the original posters setup already.
Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by justinlloyd on Friday December 17, 2021 @02:01PM (#29596753)
You've assumed an awful lot about me based on a few flippant comments I've made on social media. Perhaps that time would be better spent finding a different outlet for your frustration. It appears that these days people on HN jump to the "find another job" solution as fast as people on Reddit jump to the "get divorced" solution.
Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by bredren on Friday December 17, 2021 @10:20AM (#29593318)
Can biometric auth be required on iOS? I had thought iOS treated these as convenience alternatives to device pin.
Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by HWR_14 on Friday December 17, 2021 @01:35PM (#29596283)
By default in a standard iOS installation, it's a convenience (one only unlocked after a PIN is input on rebooting). Individual apps may request access to FaceID/TouchID (not the raw data, but the iPhone's verification of biometric identity.) The user must whitelist the apps to use that permission, but a company could easily make their app not function if that permission is denied.
Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by justinlloyd on Friday December 17, 2021 @02:05PM (#29596822)
I've already circumvented a variety of biometric requirements in various devices in my personal research and just for funsies. FaceID is fooled by a 3D print, and also if you never enroll your face in FaceID but instead use something else that is face-like, the system doesn't care. FaceID is dumb, insecure and doesn't care. TouchID similarly - it just wants to see a squishy thing pressed against it that vaguely resembles a human finger to enroll. It's security theatre. Consumer grade biometric security is as useless as consumer grade paper shredders.
Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by HWR_14 on Friday December 17, 2021 @02:41PM (#29597360)
> Consumer grade biometric security is as useless as consumer grade paper shredders.

IIRC, consumer grade paper shredders got pretty good in the past few years. And your examples both rely on the person setting up the security circumventing it by supplying bad training/enrolling. Which makes it bad if you want to guarantee a person is behind it, but fine if you want to treat it as something that belongs to the person doing the enrolling.

Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by justinlloyd on Friday December 17, 2021 @03:12PM (#29597761)
You're not wrong, but anything up to DIN P-4 is a couple of evenings of work to defeat with an automated computer vision algorithm. Ask me how I know. Most consumer grade shredders on the market are DIN P-2 and DIN P-5 is where it starts to get really tricky but is still possible to work with.

And I have found that most corporate security, especially in the biometric arena, is sub-par, usually because of the human component doing the enrolling. I am not saying it isn't workable, but that there is a vast landscape between people's perceived utility/functionality of the security and the actual security envelope it provides. Fortunately for me, security is very difficult to get right.

Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by bredren on Saturday December 18, 2021 @04:57PM (#29608943)
What’s the right way to dispose of paper containing sensitive information?
Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by justinlloyd on Saturday December 18, 2021 @06:38PM (#29609838)
The NSA recommends P-7 with full incineration. Fellowes has a P-7 model, but do you really want to spend $7,000 on disposing of your credit card statements. P-5 and P-6 are acceptable for home use. P-4 is also acceptable if you aren't really trying to hide anything and just want to dispose of those credit card offers, CVS receipts and that printout you received from your vet. Disposal security sits right alongside digital security in that you have to ask yourself, how much of a target do you consider yourself to be?

I use a P-4 shredder, also from Fellowes, that cost a couple of hundred bucks, that replaced a burnt out P-2 shredder I got for $30 from Staples. I am considering going to a higher capacity P-5 if I can find one at a reasonable price on eBay, mainly for the extra shredding capacity and the hopper feeder than any additional security it provides.

How seriously do I take my disposal security in my home? Well, I'm not a target, and there are other higher value targets with less security, so why would they go after me. I shred any mail or paperwork I don't wish to keep physical copies of, but it sits in the "to be shredded" basket near the shredder for a good six months before I get around to it. There's an oppportunity there, if I were a target. And the "to be shredded" basket will contain bills from my medical insurance provider, phone bills, ISP bills, electricity bills, cheques I've deposited, grocery receipts.

Whilst I practice good op-sec within my house -- no paperwork leaves without being shredded, tightened network security, VLANs for suspicious devices, locked down networks, and 2FA where appropriate -- I'm not a target and I have very little reason to be a target, so I don't need an onerously heavy shield. I'm cautious, not paranoid.

You need to evaluate your disposal security within the context of "what is convenient" rather than "what is best."

Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by bredren on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @02:34AM (#29634940)
Thank you for this detailed response.
Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by travisgriggs on Friday December 17, 2021 @01:25AM (#29588597)
Nice.

If you can automate the observation, you can automate your observance of the observation. The symmetry is great.

It’s even kind of poetic, because the more creative type of person who is less valued as a drone is the type of person to extend the effort to do this, whereas the clock-in-clock-out type with less investment and motivation is less likely. Sort of a “if you’re clever/motivated enough to end run it, your clever enough to not need this anyway.”

Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by theshrike79 on Friday December 17, 2021 @02:40AM (#29589079)
> If you can automate the observation, you can automate your observance of the observation. The symmetry is great.

Never measure the productivity of engineers with plain numbers. They will just take it as a challenge on how to optimise for that particular measurement.

Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by wayoutthere on Friday December 17, 2021 @08:04AM (#29591566)
Not even engineers; this is true of all business. Any metric defined quickly becomes a goal whether it was intended to or not. Once you attach incentives to the metric, it will be focused on to the exclusion of everything else.
Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by nlake906 on Friday December 17, 2021 @09:28AM (#29592589)
Easier said than done, but if you can manage to set up the metric to align the business and the employee, life becomes very easy for management. Working on designing and implementing production-based pay systems in warehouses, when it goes right the department runs itself with barebones management as a little profit generating machine that fairly pays workers a very good wage. When it goes wrong though...
Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by wayoutthere on Friday December 17, 2021 @09:45AM (#29592816)
Yeah, the problem comes in when the dynamic changes and you’ve overoptimized for the old dynamic and don’t have any ability to flex within the systems without totally overhauling them. Hence the current supply chain problems…
Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by throway453sde on Friday December 17, 2021 @07:10AM (#29591119)
> If you can automate the observation, you can automate your observance of the observation. The symmetry is great.

Nice quote.

Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by marcosdumay on Friday December 17, 2021 @08:50AM (#29592039)
> if you’re clever/motivated enough to end run it, your clever enough to not need this anyway.

Except that controlling people changes their motivations.

Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by vladf on Friday December 17, 2021 @05:08AM (#29590149)
What about adding a captcha?
Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by sigio on Friday December 17, 2021 @06:45AM (#29590918)
Outsource it to amazon mechanical turk, or something equivalent ;) Pay a dollar to have someone else fill it in.
Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by justinlloyd on Friday December 17, 2021 @02:07PM (#29596857)
Simple CAPTCHA work pays 3 cents. Ask me how I know.
Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by jack_pp on Friday December 17, 2021 @06:32AM (#29590816)
there are captcha solving services
Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by Animats on Friday December 17, 2021 @02:57AM (#29589207)
Every morning my machine dutifully booted up, logged in, signed in at precisely 9AM and made sure it showed I was available and active throughout the day until it was "time to go home."

That's how Edison got started.[1]

[1] https://www.gjenvick.com/Biography/ThomasAEdison/05-TheBoyTe...

Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by justinlloyd on Friday December 17, 2021 @04:17AM (#29589767)
Edison was probably using a different version of MS Teams, before Microsoft added all the extra bells and whistles like video meetings.
Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by easton_s on Friday December 17, 2021 @09:33AM (#29592645)
/sensible_chuckle
Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by newshorts on Friday December 17, 2021 @09:12AM (#29592379)
As a manager, I can’t even imagine a scenario where I would require someone to be online at a certain time.

Maybe it’s the type of work or business requirement that causes this behavior, but I view this as such a violation of autonomy that it would immediately kill team morale.

You sound like a very creative/talented developer, if I were you I would not put up with this.

Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by spaceisballer on Friday December 17, 2021 @06:24PM (#29599558)
I think it’s really hard for people to shake the old work ways. Once we went fully remote my whole department fully embraced flexibility. And guess what productivity was good and work was getting done. People worked all kinds of work hours to either care for children, sleep in, do whatever who cares. I’m more productive in the afternoon so I log in late morning. I could log on and get nothing done but I’d rather sleep in. There are no expectations to respond to messages in off hours. You get to it when you’re working. You are not expected to work extra. It’s taken a bigger adjustment periods for some of my people but we are getting there.
Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by justinlloyd on Friday December 17, 2021 @02:23PM (#29597124)
It killed morale, and due to other issues, eventually killed the entire project about a month after I left. I have already found a new position.
Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by guilhas on Friday December 17, 2021 @05:01AM (#29590104)
This, crazy management always backfires

At a previous job we had to log all hours of the day, with a comment, in existing tasks. I felt like my work time was spent mostly making stuff up to manage management expectations, instead of development

On Teams, I believe now on your account management, setting up the 2fa, you can say you have trouble using their app and download the otp key which you can use in a generic app like FreeOTP, or integration

On the desktop I use Caffeine like apps to force the status always online

Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by shultays on Friday December 17, 2021 @08:22AM (#29591724)

  Every morning my machine dutifully booted up, logged in, signed in at precisely 9AM and made sure it showed I was available and active throughout the day until it was "time to go home."
Heh, an old coworker was doing that manually back when we were at office that had a tool tracks how much time we spend at office and shows that on an internal webpage. He was logging a perfect 8:00 average at the end of the month because it was such a stupid system
Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by jmkni on Friday December 17, 2021 @05:28AM (#29590313)
> I wrote a Python script that ran on a Raspberry Pi, that would pull the 2FA code from an Android emulator running on another machine running the 2FA app, and then the script would paste the 2FA code in to MS Teams running on the corporate laptop using a USB keyboard/mouse h/w emulator

That's fucking hilarious/brilliant!

Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by throway453sde on Friday December 17, 2021 @07:12AM (#29591145)
> that would pull the 2FA code from an Android emulator running on another machine running the 2FA app

Brilliant. Curious what software do you use to run Android emulator(qemu, bluestack)?

Re:There's been a big rise in monitoring workers at home by throwaway75787 on Friday December 17, 2021 @05:43AM (#29590434)
What Android emulator do you use?