News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by hesdeadjim on Saturday October 30, 2021 @01:25PM (#29050532)
If only there was a world where Apple would sell M1 chips separately from their walled garden.
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by ChuckNorris89 on Saturday October 30, 2021 @01:48PM (#29050785)
Well, number one, why would they? Apple makes money by getting consumers and locking them into their unicorns and rainbows ecosystem where everything is perfect which makes consumers comfortable spending boat loads of money, not by selling commodity hardware.

Ecosystems with great UX and paid subscriptions plus a 30% cut on all transactions are far more profitable than the margins you make selling commodity hardware. Just ask famous phone manufacturers like Siemens, Nokia and Blackberry why that is. That's why SW dev salaries are much higher than HW dev salaries as the former generates way more revenue than the latter. That's why Apple doesn't roll out their own cloud datacenters and instead just gets Amazon, Microsoft and Google to compete against each other on pricing.

Apple only rolls out their solutions when they have an impact on the final UX, like designing their own M1 silicon.

And number two, selling chips comes with a lot of hassle like providing support to your partners like Intel and AMD do. Pretty sure they don't want to bother with that.

Before they start selling chips I would rather they open iMessage to other platforms to eliminate the bubble color discrimination.

Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by rafamaddd on Saturday October 30, 2021 @03:00PM (#29051400)
> Before they start selling chips I would rather they open iMessage to other platforms to eliminate the bubble color discrimination.

Outside of the countries where iOS is on par with Android (I think US, Canada and UK are the only ones, maybe also Australia) in terms of popularity, I don't know or have seen a single person using iMessage, of course there's a lot people using iphone outside of the mentioned countries, but absolutely nobody uses iMessage.

The whole discrimination of the color bubble seems to only happen in those countries were iOS is the same or more popular than android and people is actually using iMessage.

Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by InvaderFizz on Saturday October 30, 2021 @03:43PM (#29051746)
It's worse than that in the US. While iOS is a bit over 50%, it's closing in on 90% for teens[0], where such discrimination is most likely to occur. These numbers also bode well for Apple's future market share as these teens grow into adults.

0: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/apple-i-phone-ownership-among...

Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by ChuckNorris89 on Saturday October 30, 2021 @04:03PM (#29051885)
It's getting similar in Europe for teens. I rarely see them on public transport with anything other than an iPhone.
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by pjmlp on Sunday October 31, 2021 @04:10AM (#29055339)
Go to southern countries or eastern Europe, plenty of teens with Android.
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by grishka on Saturday October 30, 2021 @07:54PM (#29053261)
In Russia, people stopped sending each other SMS before smartphones even became mainstream. At the time they were becoming mainstream, ICQ was the instant messaging service to use, and of course there was an unofficial ICQ client for just about anything that had a screen, a keyboard, and a network interface. Also VKontakte, but that was easily accessible via Opera Mini.

Right now 99.9% of those Russians who use the internet can be reached via either VKontakte or Telegram. WhatsApp is also popular, but thankfully not around me so I was able to delete my account and never look back.

Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by rimliu on Saturday October 30, 2021 @05:48PM (#29052563)
> but absolutely nobody uses iMessage

Uhm, iMessage works transparently. I just use Messages app, if my recipient uses iPhone it get an iMessage, if they use something else, they get SMS.

Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by mcintyre1994 on Saturday October 30, 2021 @06:18PM (#29052726)
Their point is that most people don’t use the Messages app to communicate with others. In the UK for example WhatsApp is massively dominant.
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by poetaster on Sunday October 31, 2021 @04:41PM (#29060214)
Ditto. I'm the leper who prefers to not use whatsapp and only get away with it since my partner takes up the slack, so to speak.. Last weekend she and i where bemused by the inability of our 100% APPLE hosts to: 1. Use airprint (worked from my linux phone!!!) 2. Share a file with linux or android (mp3 for a ringtone) 3. Install a ringtone. Breathtaking. I still have my classic. And si. I have more proprietary apple software on diskettes than most geeks I know. But apple tanked long ago. And hardware is cheap. And foss is fun.
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by lrem on Sunday October 31, 2021 @05:41AM (#29055763)
I see people using iMessage in a country where iPhone has a whopping 7% market share. And yes,
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by tinus_hn on Saturday October 30, 2021 @03:25PM (#29051588)
> Before they start selling chips I would rather they open iMessage to other platforms to eliminate the bubble color discrimination

It’s probably easier to just move to one of the 99% of countries where nobody uses iMessage.

Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by ChuckNorris89 on Saturday October 30, 2021 @03:33PM (#29051652)
I already do, in Europe, where everyone and their mom uses Facebook's WhatsApp for everything. While that evens the playing field, I'm not sure I'd call trading a walled garden for a spyware one a massive victory though.
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by tinus_hn on Saturday October 30, 2021 @03:35PM (#29051679)
So who cares that a network nobody uses exists where only people that have an Apple device can login?
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by ChuckNorris89 on Saturday October 30, 2021 @03:39PM (#29051713)
Apparently teens and even some adults in the US where they'll miss out on social activities or be mocked or ignored due to not being on iMessage.

That doesn't affect me though as i don't live in the US and am too old for that kind of stuff but I do remember how easy it was to be mocked or bullied as a teen for not having the same stuff as the herd, even before smartphones were a thing.

Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by tinus_hn on Sunday October 31, 2021 @05:08AM (#29055618)
How do you know if this is really a thing and not just some dramatic story of the week in the media?
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by cma on Sunday October 31, 2021 @12:03PM (#29057939)
It s big in the startup world too, lots of funding happened on iOS-exclusive "Clubhouse.". Black people use Android more, so it is partially back to the old racially exclusive Country Club system.
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by tinus_hn on Sunday October 31, 2021 @01:50PM (#29058810)
However, that has nothing to do with iMessage being exclusive to Apple devices.
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by IgorPartola on Saturday October 30, 2021 @02:50PM (#29051303)
I agree with you right up to how exactly does the M1 chip affect the final UX? A different keyboard, screen, touchpad, etc. all make a difference but why does the chip make a difference?
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by ChuckNorris89 on Saturday October 30, 2021 @02:57PM (#29051362)
>how exactly does the M1 chip affect the final UX?

Everything runs faster, cooler, quieter and battery lasts longer. Is that not part of the product UX?

Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by IgorPartola on Saturday October 30, 2021 @03:11PM (#29051487)
That makes it sound like Intel, AMD, ARM, etc. we’re trying to build chips that run hotter and less efficiently.
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by bzzzt on Saturday October 30, 2021 @03:33PM (#29051660)
Seems like Intel really lost the plan there with every new generation having just a few percent better performance, trouble with moving to smaller nodes and the enormous regression from spectre/meltdown.

The Apple chips are made for running macOS/iOS. Seems there are some hardware instructions that are tailor made for increasing the performance of Apple software so they can make sure everything is working toward a common goal.

Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by neogodless on Saturday October 30, 2021 @07:51PM (#29053241)
Not really

They are trying to compete, and have different levers to pull with varying success. When the performance per clock or per watt levers don't work well enough, then they increase the power, and the end result is heat and inefficiency.

On the flip side, integrated solutions add another lever... writing hardware that does exactly what your software needs to improve the user experience.

AMD, ARM, and even Intel have some cool, efficient solutions, but not across their whole portfolio of products, and not at the higher ends of performance. But they are always competing, incrementing and working to get closer to that ideal.

Apple was able to focus on their exact market segment and get there rapidly.

Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by ChuckNorris89 on Saturday October 30, 2021 @03:30PM (#29051630)
The end users don't care what brand of chip is under the hood, or why the UX on Apple's implementation of Intel chips sucked, they just know the new device has much better UX overall due to the more powerful and more efficient chip and will upgrade for that.
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by masklinn on Saturday October 30, 2021 @03:02PM (#29051414)
> I agree with you right up to how exactly does the M1 chip affect the final UX?

It allows apple to focus on what they want without being limited by and two their hardware provider’s strategy.

Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by ArgyleSound on Saturday October 30, 2021 @02:52PM (#29051323)
Power efficiency for one.
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by IgorPartola on Saturday October 30, 2021 @02:55PM (#29051345)
Was there nobody else who made power efficient chips?
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by JiNCMG on Saturday October 30, 2021 @04:49PM (#29052190)
Not in the x86 arena. Every time Apple gets involved with a CPU developers (Motorola, IBM, Intel) their needs splits from the developers desires. This time they decided to go on their own (well after years of doing this for the iPhone). Note: They have been involved in the ARM CPU market since the days of the Newton.
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by PeterisP on Sunday October 31, 2021 @07:37AM (#29056263)
Many other manufacturers had made power-efficient ARM chips, however, the mainstream computer makers (just a few years ago including Apple) did choose x86 compatibility over power efficiency.
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by smoldesu on Saturday October 30, 2021 @07:34PM (#29053127)
None of the other CPU manufacturers have access to the same silicon Apple does, so it's hard to say.
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by kingosticks on Sunday October 31, 2021 @04:20AM (#29055384)
That would make sense in the context of Intel but anyone with money has access to TSMC 5nm (in 2021-2022). Do I misunderstand?
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by JiNCMG on Sunday October 31, 2021 @09:56AM (#29056988)
Just because you have money doesn't mean you have a market. Just to run a plate to create test cpus cost in the millions. All others were happy with the incremental upgrades that they were getting from ARM. Apple needed more and started creating CPUs for the iPhones a few years back
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by kingosticks on Sunday October 31, 2021 @11:22AM (#29057616)
Looks like I did misunderstand, I thought they actually meant the silicon technology itself which is now available to the others and they all have designs coming using it.
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by rbanffy on Saturday October 30, 2021 @04:20PM (#29052000)
> Before they start selling chips I would rather they open iMessage to other platforms to eliminate the bubble color discrimination.

When so many telcos charge outrageous prices for SMSs, it's a useful feature.

Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by NelsonMinar on Saturday October 30, 2021 @02:49PM (#29051302)
Or alternately one where some Windows / Linux manufacturer could match Apple for all the innovations in the M1 Macbooks. I'm not an Apple fan but I'm envious of what they've accomplished and wish I could run Windows and Linux on similar hardware.

Other folks are starting to get there but only from the mobile device direction, e.g. Tensor. Maybe I should look closer at what Microsoft has done with ARM Surface.

Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by smoldesu on Saturday October 30, 2021 @03:08PM (#29051464)
It doesn't help that Apple bought the entire manufacturing capacity for 5nm silicon from TSCM right before the chip shortage hit. I think the next few years are going to get very competitive though, and I'm excited to see how Intel and AMD respond.
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by phkahler on Saturday October 30, 2021 @04:09PM (#29051921)
Apple has done that before. IIRC when the original iPod came out it used a new generation of HDD. Apple went to the drive manufacturer and said "we'll take all of them" and they agreed.
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by taf2 on Saturday October 30, 2021 @03:30PM (#29051631)
How is Amazon able to product their arm chips for aws? Assuming those are not the 5nm?
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by smoldesu on Saturday October 30, 2021 @04:14PM (#29051962)
There's still 5nm silicon for sale, but just not at TSCM (the largest semiconductor manufacturer in the world). Companies like Samsung are just now getting around to mass-producing 5nm, and afaik there were a few domestic Chinese manufacturers who claimed to be on the node too.

As for Amazon specifically though, I've got no idea. They're a large enough company that they could buy out an entire fab or foundry if they wanted, AWS makes more than enough money to cover the costs.

Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by pezezin on Saturday October 30, 2021 @09:57PM (#29053857)
Nitpick: it's TSMC, Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company.
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by smoldesu on Sunday October 31, 2021 @12:13AM (#29054410)
Good catch, my mind always interprets it as Taiwan Semi-Conductor Manufacturer
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by pezezin on Monday November 01, 2021 @07:10AM (#29065236)
Yeah, I always need to think twice before writing or saying their name. Same with ASML. I guess there is a reason why TLAs are much more common than FLAs.
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by meragrin_ on Sunday October 31, 2021 @07:27AM (#29056214)
> all the innovations in the M1 Macbooks

What are the innovations in them? From everything I've heard, they just basically reverted all the changes most people hated for the last few years and slapped a new chip in there.

Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by jeffbee on Saturday October 30, 2021 @02:51PM (#29051316)
The "walled garden" comes with a C and C++ toolchain, python, perl, awk, sed, and a Unix shell. It is not, in any way, a "walled garden" in a universe where words have shared meaning.
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by scoopertrooper on Saturday October 30, 2021 @09:24PM (#29053702)
Exactly, I cannot believe the Hacker News crowd are penalising you for correcting OP on not knowing that the walled garden metaphor specifically refers to the App Store, which is not an issue on MacOS.
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by robbedpeter on Sunday October 31, 2021 @03:06AM (#29055079)
No. That might have been where you first saw the concept applied, but a walled garden is a commercial ecosystem that is deliberately closed to foster a sense of value and exclusivity, usually in spite of no technical reason for it.

Walled gardens are inherently anti consumer market plays that make things worse for everyone except the people milking money from the idiots paying into the walled garden.

Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by scoopertrooper on Sunday October 31, 2021 @08:17PM (#29061796)
What part of MacOS is a walled garden? I can use any Bluetooth or USB device with it. I can install Linux on it. I can compile my own code on it. I can download applications from any source I please and install them.
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by poetaster on Sunday October 31, 2021 @04:47PM (#29060268)
I agree but would distinguish the mac from the phone? Bluetooth file transfers are a wall problem with ios. Assume you mean macosx?
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by aftbit on Saturday October 30, 2021 @02:57PM (#29051374)
Its a walled garden when you're not allowed to leave or bring your friends in, no matter how nice the stuff on the inside is.
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by jeffbee on Saturday October 30, 2021 @03:02PM (#29051410)
And that analogy applies to macOS and the M1 CPU how, exactly?
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by rimliu on Saturday October 30, 2021 @05:55PM (#29052602)
What does it even mean?
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by bla3 on Saturday October 30, 2021 @02:33PM (#29051183)
The Pi has much better performance per dollar, which is a metric that's important to some people too.
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by tinus_hn on Saturday October 30, 2021 @03:30PM (#29051635)
Purchase dollar? Or energy dollar?
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by rbanffy on Saturday October 30, 2021 @04:25PM (#29052023)
I don't think there's anything else on the planet that rivals the performance per watt of the M1 family.

Also, the RPi's SoC is made in an older 28nm process (that's one of the reasons why it's cheaper).

Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by Rovanion on Saturday October 30, 2021 @03:07PM (#29051459)
They won't. Their margins on the services side are obscene so getting people into that ecosystem is worth much more than the sales of some processors.
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by monocasa on Saturday October 30, 2021 @02:53PM (#29051329)
I'm hoping Alyssa Rosenzweig's fantastic work documenting the M1 GPU will let us write native Vulkan drivers even for MacOS. I believe she's been focusing thus far on the user space visible interfaces, so a lot of that work should translate well.
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by pengaru on Saturday October 30, 2021 @09:51PM (#29053820)
I'm sure there's a not so distant future where Broadcom ships a 7nm (or smaller) SoC that finds its way into the Raspberry Pi series.

It's not like Apple has a meaningful moat around state of the art silicon. And that's a Good Thing.

Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by smoldesu on Saturday October 30, 2021 @01:44PM (#29050743)
Also accepted would be a world where they just add Vulkan support to their APUs already.
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by my123 on Saturday October 30, 2021 @01:49PM (#29050789)
A fully compliant Vulkan implementation for M1 would come with very surprising performance cliffs for a developer.

One of them: https://github.com/KhronosGroup/MoltenVK/issues/1244

Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by WithinReason on Saturday October 30, 2021 @02:03PM (#29050924)
And also potential optimisations that are not possible in other GPUs:

https://developer.apple.com/documentation/metal/gpu_features...

Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by monocasa on Saturday October 30, 2021 @02:21PM (#29051076)
That's pretty common for TBDRs. The tile is rendered into a fixed size on chip buffer, and the driver has to split the tile into multiple passes to fit all of the render target data for nutty amounts of data coming out of the shader. PowerVR works the same way (completely unsurprisingly).
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by fulafel on Saturday October 30, 2021 @05:18PM (#29052372)
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by zamadatix on Saturday October 30, 2021 @02:26PM (#29051120)
It'd be surprising if an architecture had 0 such surprises and did everything Vulkan allows without any special performance considerations vs another architecture.
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by WithinReason on Saturday October 30, 2021 @01:47PM (#29050777)
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by smoldesu on Saturday October 30, 2021 @01:52PM (#29050827)
It's fine, but it's frankly silly that you're forced to translate a free and open graphics API into a more proprietary one. Compare that to something like DXVK, which exists because Linux users cannot license DirectX on their systems. MoltenVK exists simply because Apple thought "let's not adopt the industry-wide standard for CG graphics on our newer machines". Again, not bad, but a bit of a sticky situation that is entirely predicated by technology politics, not what's actually possible on these GPUs.
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by bzzzt on Saturday October 30, 2021 @03:38PM (#29051703)
Metal was released a year before Vulkan. Apple just didn't want to wait and decided to design their own better than OpenGL API.
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by oynqr on Saturday October 30, 2021 @05:36PM (#29052460)
Mantle was released ~1 year before Metal.
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by pjmlp on Sunday October 31, 2021 @04:14AM (#29055359)
Proprietary to AMD, which gave it to Khronos when it was obvious they would do a second version of Longs Peak if left on their own.

Yet Vulkan, shows they cannot fix their love for extensions spaghetti.

Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by smoldesu on Saturday October 30, 2021 @04:52PM (#29052207)
DirectX was released a decade before Vulkan, that didn't stop manufacturers from including support for both so the user could decide for themselves.
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by pjmlp on Sunday October 31, 2021 @04:16AM (#29055368)
You mean the support that is only possible because Windows backward compatibility still supports the OpenGL 1.1 ICD that they rely on?

Most of the time with crappy drivers that are a shadow of their DirectX ones?

Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by my123 on Sunday October 31, 2021 @07:28AM (#29056219)
> still supports the OpenGL 1.1 ICD that they rely on?

On Windows 11, it’s OpenGL 3.3 on top of DX12, because Qualcomm doesn’t provide an OpenGL ICD at all.

> crappy drivers

Special mention to the Intel OpenGL graphics driver on Windows. If you thought that the AMD Windows one was bad, the Intel one was somehow significantly worse.

Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by jamespo on Sunday October 31, 2021 @04:42AM (#29055503)
With this gpu performance you’d think Apple might like to take advantage for gaming.
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by pjmlp on Sunday October 31, 2021 @06:46AM (#29056043)
They already do, all middleware engines that actually matter, already support Metal.

Additionally iOS and Apple have much better tooling for Metal than plain DirectXTK/Pix, or that toy SDK from Khronos (that Google also uses on Android), if we compare vendor tooling.

Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by smoldesu on Sunday October 31, 2021 @11:05AM (#29057477)
Sounds like you don't need any help then, enjoy your 50-75% performance hit playing (a scant few) games through DirectX -> Vulkan -> Wine/Crossover ($30) -> MoltenVK -> Metal!
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by pjmlp on Sunday October 31, 2021 @11:33AM (#29057690)
The games I care about enjoy native Metal and DirectX, and when I code anything graphics I don't use Khronos stuff, only on the Web, where there is no other option.

Any game dev gems have basic examples on doing an API loading layer.

Vulkan is mostly a Linux thing, and even the Switch has its own native API, NVN, it is not Vulkan nor OpenGL on the driving seat.

Here enjoy, https://www.ogre3d.org/

Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by jamespo on Monday November 01, 2021 @08:23AM (#29065794)
That’s not shown in terms of games people actually want to buy.
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by dwaite on Sunday October 31, 2021 @11:27PM (#29062748)
> It's fine, but it's frankly silly that you're forced to translate a free and open graphics API into a more proprietary one.

Thats exactly what every graphics API has done, because the underlying chip architecture is never free and open (and often, is neither).

If the issue is that you are targeting a proprietary intermediate API rather than bare metal, that is also how Nvidia's drivers work.

Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by tinus_hn on Saturday October 30, 2021 @03:33PM (#29051659)
Is what is possible with Metal possible with GL though? Both in performance and features? They didn’t build Metal just to be contrarian.
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by JiNCMG on Sunday October 31, 2021 @10:05AM (#29057047)
Why? Apple has always stated they don't want to be in an enterprise like market. It stifles innovation. While you can keeps adding features to your product you can never take away from it. Ex: x86 and Windows. Meanwhile Apple has removed entire CPU functionality from their chips since the release of the iPhone 4S. This was easy because they only had to deal with their own developers. This keeps them agile and able to change from 1 release to another.
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by jonp888 on Sunday October 31, 2021 @07:42AM (#29056278)
That's a bit of an ironic comment

Broadcom chips are not available on the open market and they won't sell to you unless you are an enormous company(or have a "special relationship" as RPi did). Effectively you can only buy one attached to a Pi.

Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by Shish2k on Saturday October 30, 2021 @08:05PM (#29053314)
Maybe they could make their own SBC, just an M1 and four USB-C ports… Apple Pi?
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by mirekrusin on Saturday October 30, 2021 @02:41PM (#29051239)
Why? They gave "it's possible" proof. They rip benefits of doing it first - all good. Now it's time for competition to pick it up, possibly improve on it or fade away Intel style.
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by snvzz on Saturday October 30, 2021 @02:25PM (#29051107)
No worries. Competition is coming.

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=SiFive-P...

Should be roughly M1 performance, but on RISC-V.

Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by rafamaddd on Saturday October 30, 2021 @03:10PM (#29051477)
uffff

who knows when that is coming and when are we going to be able to buy regular laptops from e.g. Lenovo, HP, Acer, etc with that.

By the time that happens, Apple may already be on their third, fourth? generation on M1. Which is going to much much much faster than M1.

Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by snvzz on Saturday October 30, 2021 @08:34PM (#29053479)
>Which is going to much much much faster than M1.

Will it really?

It isn't a given. They might bring amazing progress, or not.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter all that much if it isn't available to third parties. It's not as if everybody else is sitting on their ass.

SiFive's not a fat company, their research budget is tiny, relative to the likes of Apple. And yet, they're coming up with competitive cores.

Things are so much easier when not restricted by a shitty ISA (x86). I have taken a look, and I really like RISC-V; I find it better than ARM.

Re:Raspberry Pi 4 achieves Vulkan 1.1 conformance, gets GPU ... by phkahler on Saturday October 30, 2021 @04:19PM (#29051989)
M1 is WAY faster than a cortex A78.