I could retire comfortably in a few years, but my earning power is at it's peak. Every extra year I work provides significant extra resources for my family, to help the girls afford their first houses and get a good start in life when they graduate. I'll probably work another 5 years beyond what I'd probably do if it was purely about self-interest for myself and my wife.

I'm lucky that I enjoy my work, so it's not a massive sacrifice, but I do enjoy my leisure activities more. I'm really looking forward to being able to go somewhere interesting in the world with the missus and just stay there for 6 months. Also I'm a Brit here in the UK so health care is just not really an issue.

The Tories really don't like the NHS so I'm assuming they will continue to squeeze it. I wouldn't be surprised if we end up paying for things like joint replacements.

I thought having a possibility to graduate is 'the good start' in life.

Help could mean a lot of things... it could mean $20K towards their down payment all the way up to buying the damn thing, the poster didn't really clarify.

This whole "builds character" thing is a bunch of bullshit that people spout off to poo-poo those that have a leg up in life.

They’re both hard working, they do well at school and have part time jobs over the summer. I’m not worried about them on that score.

Thanks for the reassurance. :)

I've been writing software for 40 years, for fun and profit, I'm about 100% sure I'll never stop, so like you I'd like to monetize it as long as possible.

EDIT: Yes, SOME tools will account for inflation by asking you what you think inflation might be between now and retirement day. (Who knows?) Most don't account for costs that will rise much faster than inflation, like housing and health care.

Correct. But that doesn't mean you *shouldn't* plan. That's why you rebalance your portfolio every few years, and adjust your budgets, and expectations, and make lifestyle changes. It takes a lifetime to prepare for retirement. And its kinda hard to fuck up by your own hand if you are diligent: save 10-20%/yr., cover the basic investment grid, buy and hold. With 30+ years experience and many friends in the same boat, that's a winner.

Also, retiring on $100k today would require $148k/yr in 10 years with 4% inflation, so you're right, that number will at least go up via inflation.

That's why it matters who you vote for. Medicare/Medicaid will be your primary healthcare in your 60's, but we absolutely need the ACA/single-payer, not just for early retirees, but to prevent insurance companies from forever inflating premiums and bankrupting us.

I tried to get my own answer for this question in a couple of ways (retired 5 years ago, age 62 so not early).

First, I tracked my expenses, but didn't have a planned budget. I wanted to know how much I spent and where it went. I kept monthly and yearly summaries on a spreadsheet and made charts to better visualize trends and variability. I think just tracking expenses was encouragement to live modestly and contribute regularly to savings: information not coercion.

Second, I tracked potential future income/benefits. I have an employer retirement plan and an IRA plan. Before retirement, I used the retirement plan's calculators to estimate that benefit. For my IRA I used a 4% withdrawal estimate.

Third, I assumed my expense totals would be the same in retirement. I might spend less on commuting, work clothes, etc., but more on medical care, vacation travel, and so on. I estimated housing costs for either renting or having a mortgage. (Ended up selling the house when I retired, moving and renting for 3 years, then buying a new place and getting a small mortgage for that.)

Over the short term, assumptions of continuity are reasonable. As you point out, the longer term is much more of a question mark. So, fourth, I tried to make allowances for uncertainties and contingencies. How much padding or margin did I want to be comfortable? Perhaps 10% to 20% more income than one's average expenses would feel comfortable? Perhaps a contingency plan for part-time work?

All these numbers will be in current dollars, so they will be comparable. What I discovered when running my numbers (after learning about an opportunity to buy some retirement plan benefits with money I had saved in a 401-K) was that I could then afford to retire. I can't predict the future either, but felt comfortable with the uncertainties I could see.

Following one's own situation roughly once a year, one can see how different conditions and assumptions give different results. Generally, the less one spends and the more savings one has, the more flexible one can be in choosing jobs, places to live, lifestyle, and so on.

I think you'll find those numbers are not especially high for a house. (As opposed to a condo which have their own fees.) My house is not especially large--but it is about 200 years old although renovated so budgeting a few hundred dollars per month for maintenance seems reasonable.

I honestly doubt that most people could get the cost associated with maintaining a house below $500/month or so.

No one claimed it was free, and if it’s not a burden then what’s the problem? My point is that $80K without a mortgage or retirement allocation leaves significantly more money left over than $80K with those expenses. Where is the problem?

Right, which is why people should save 10-15% starting from a young age.

> Even at a safe withdrawal rate of 4%, $2M is "only" $80k a year.

That's quite a lot more than the median household income and by the time you're withdrawing your retirement that $80K is purely spending money--your house should be paid off and you're not setting 15% of that $80K aside for retirement any more. $80K/year is a lot of spending money to most people.

> You're not driving around in Ferrari's and eating caviar on that (parodying a rich lifestyle here). Of course there are levels, and one could live modestly in a LCOL area on that, but that's not what most people have in mind. Particularly for a "millionaire".

The meme of a millionaire driving Ferrari's and eating caviar is dated due to inflation. Most people with any real-world experience with money (including my no-higher-education, blue-collar family) understand that millionaires don't live like that these days due to inflation.

My current job pays well but is very stressful, and that had me thinking more about FIRE (Financial Independence, Retire Early), but then I realized that on anything less than 120K a year (also have a mortgage to pay), I couldn't afford the therapist I'm seeing right now, and I'd be on the hook for dental cleaning, every other expense. My current plan is to save enough that I could technically almost retire on it, and then start prioritizing low stress jobs over income. Let the nest egg grow on its own even if I don't contribute as much with a lower paying job, and still get some benefits.

I'm sure there are stressed engineers there as well, but I'd be surprised if it's actually a higher %.

https://walletburst.com/coast-fire-calc

As OP said if you don’t have a mortgage then you’re going to have a lot more extra money than someone with an 80-120k income and a mortgage.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28062162

The gist is that lowering your other expenses and qualifying for ACA could dramatically lower your health insurance expenses as well.

$2 million in investments AND a payed off mortgage and still, it doesn't pencil out to retire? Seems like over the past decade+ the 'value' of even $1 million has become more and more diluted. To support even just a middle class, to upper middle class lifestyle, can get very expensive.

I personally do it every month. I know where every dollar has gone every month, and I also track a 12-month moving average. So I have a sense now of what our yearly expenses are. I compare that with the ever-changing recommendations of what a "Safe Withdrawal Rate" is, and then I try to squint into the future to mix in the effects of: taxes from retirement income; social security (even at the 80% level if no one fixes it); increased retirement expenses from having fun; decreased retirement expenses from not working and getting old; increased retirement expenses from health.

But ultimately, it just comes down to the trio of savings, interest rate, and expenses.

1 million saved = 40k per year, adjusting with inflation. 2 million saved = 80k per year, adjusting for inflation.

If you can live a life you want for 80k a year, then sure - 2 million can do it.

And yes, there will always be a "what if the economy collapses etc. etc", but retiring doesn't mean you can never ever for any reason hold a job again or make money.

https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/05/29/how-much-do-i-nee...

> Luckily, the math in this case is pretty interesting: there is very little difference between a 30-year period, and an infinite year period, when determining how long your money will last.

You should be fine at 4% forever. If you can spend a little less some years, or go make a few dollars somewhere hey, boosts your odds even more.

Obamacare changes that. If you don't have much income you get ACA federal tax credits.

> That's assuming you don't end up with a huge "out of network" bill by accident

New laws mostly take care of that. No more out-of-network doctors walking by your hospital bed while you're sleeping and sending you a $5000 bill. Also if you have an emergency while out of state your insurance takes care of it.

The "metal" plans all have the same network. The only difference is how much you pay vs. insurance.

Yeah, max out-of-pocket per year. Something like ~$24,000 family / $12,000 individual on our ACA plans. Gold and Silver ACA plans are basically identical in this state, you're just guaranteeing you pay more in premiums with Gold (so, in a bad year, the totals work out about the same, but in a good year the Gold is more expensive). We have exactly two ACA plan providers here, and their plans are nearly identical except that they have very different (both terrible) networks.

So if you get cancer you'll be paying $12,000/yr, on top of premiums (another $20,000 or so, for a family silver plan, if you're not getting assistance) until you're cured or you're dead. Two people get very sick, about $24,000 per year that they remain very sick, on top of premiums.

> For the 2021 plan year: The out-of-pocket limit for a Marketplace plan can’t be more than $8,550 for an individual and $17,100 for a family.

The Affordable Care Act stipulates various terms which result in young and/or healthy people explicitly subsidizing old and/or unhealthy people:

1) only age, location, and smoking status are able to be taken into account for pricing. And everyone must be offered insurance (i.e. no exclusions for pre existing conditions)

2) age rating factors - premium for costliest person (64 years old) must be at most 3x those of least costly person (21 to 24 years old)

3) out of pocket maximums

Figure out how low your expenses can be while still being quite happy with your qualify of life. Some expensive things don't provide the happiness you think they will.

Diversify the kinds of investment accounts you have. Maximize your tax-advantaged accounts like a 401k, but then contribute to a Roth IRA if available, and then plow money into a taxable brokerage account. When you approach retirement, plan to have some time period of expenses covered by cash on hand.

Then use cash, brokerage and Roth funds to cover expenses, while converting what you can from 401k or traditional IRA into Roth funds, and minimizing the income/taxation that results so you can still qualify for credits. Funds converted to Roth will be available for tax-free withdraw after 5 years, so continue to convert over time, while using the post-tax accounts to cover expenses.

There's a lot you can do to "engineer" your taxable income in early retirement.

Currently, if you're married, the first $24K or so is tax free. If you're in California, there are plenty of credits/deductions, so it's likely more than $24K.

Also, you can have a 401K Roth, where all withdrawals are tax free.

You should just factor this into your living costs. As long as you aim for the right fraction of your earnings to go into savings rather than an absolute amount, you'll be fine.

Have you considered moving to a country with quality healthcare at cheaper price? Mexico comes to mind

It would be interesting to have Medicare age gradually lowered to ~26, but I have not seen this floated around as a possibility

- Move to America, become rich

- Move back to Canada, retire

- Win

:P

Assuming that you have little-to-no Canadian assets now, dispose of everything at no-to-low cost when you leave, move to the US for a decade or so and rack up a lot of RSUs/exercised options, maybe surviving an IPO or two, while enjoying a strong USD, you can move back comically wealthy compared to your peers.

You may or may not have to toy with your employer's immigration lawyers as they scramble to get you a green card while you avoid filing any paperwork.

(This is not financial advice, contact a licensed professional, tell your friends, etc.)

Yes and no. TN is technically only for specific professions drafted in like the 80s or something. It's incredibly stupid. For example, many Canadians use "Computer Systems Analyst" for their TN which explicitly forbids programming, as a programmer is not considered a professional job in the eyes of NAFTA. It's bananas. If you don't have a decent secondary education with a recognized degree, you're likely out of luck.

And while yes, you can effectively ride TN status forever, it has a lot of downsides. For one, it's not portable, so you have to restart the process if you switch employers. In theory you can't even seek employment while on a TN. Two, the customs agent letting you into the US can decide at their leisure whether or not you qualify. It's rare but I know of a few instances of people getting rejected for no real reason. If they think you are abusing it, they will reject you, etc. If you lose your job for whatever reason, you have to leave ASAP. There is not much peace-of-mind with TN status.

Compare to an H-1B, which confers a ton of benefits, like a straightforward path to a green card (also possible with a TN but a lot of lawyers are less comfortable), easy to switch employers, your employer must pay for everything, if you're fired your employer has to pay for your travel, there is a lengthy grace period where you can be unemployed to either find work or wrap up your affairs, you can stay in the country while waiting for approval, etc. It's a million times better than TN.

Attorneys probably also dislike TN status because they really are not necessary. The applicant, not the company, must pay the application fee. In theory you don't need lawyers at all, but it is pretty useful for them to prepare the documents and cover letter for you. Get your ducks in a row, etc.

Most Canadians I meet in the US who are on TN status or H-1B visas are, at least initially, on the path to a green card. Most half-decent employers who are willing to sponsor want to put you on that path anyways, since it ensures your position is not going to evaporate because you were denied at the border or something. Most people on non-immigrant or immigrant-status visas want a green card anyways, so it is sort of the default path.

Lastly, most folks do not know about the downsides of a green card, such as the frustratingly complex tax burden if you are abroad, that it expires if you leave for ~5 years, etc.

Once you get to staff+ you effectively remove any real pay difference based on your locality.

There is also the fact of a 10% or however much copay, which will be a lot over time if you get a chronic illness (which would also reduce your ability to go back to work).

Additionally, most people expect healthcare costs to rise with age, so will want a buffer on top of what healthcare currently costs to cover future bigger expenses.

What are the types of products and services that are so significant? Surely we aren’t talking about things like Netflix and utilities?

Lots of folks I know get FatFIRE (>=$5MM assets, $200k/year in income at 4% SWR) in the US and then retire to Portugal [1] (which has universal healthcare, and gets you access to the EU).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portugal_Golden_Visa

The long term plan was always to make sufficient money to retire early, then go home. Complicating this easy straightforward idea was that I got married (!) and now have a kid who I don't want to uproot. So now I wait for college-days, and then sod off back to the UK :)

The cost of my (paid off) house in the Bay Area will fund a small mansion by the sea in the UK. Long walks on the beach with the dog seem appropriate, and will even be good for my old age :)

I'm a Brit. I have lots of family in the UK. My wife doesn't have any siblings, her mother lives in Costa Rica, and her father lives in Southern CA but hasn't visited in the 10 years we've been married (we've been there).

Perhaps it wasn't clear, but I was expecting the kid (man, at that point, I guess) to come with - there's plenty of excellent universities in the UK, and he'll even be legally able to have a beer or two...

Not that I had any say, I've been out of the country too long to vote now.

By the time you need to get on a plane to visit, 2000 miles vs 5000 miles isn't a tremendous difference. (Assuming normal times with open borders).

I firmly believe that the problems of cashflow during retirement, outside medical costs discussed here which are very US-specific, are much more about lifestyle choices. If one desperately needs that luxury they bathed in in last 30 years and it became the base standard life, then there is tough time ahead with possibly sad outlook. We all know more humble life leads to more happy life long term at this point, so to each their own.

Why I believe this - the most awesome memories from my life is doing stuff that costs very little - long backpacking trips around the world where plane tickets there & back are maybe 50% of the cost of 1-month long adventure. Doing many awesome sports one can do in the mountains (hiking, climbing, via ferratas, ski touring, paragliding, etc.). All these need initial gear investment and then just gas costs + rare equipment replacement costs.

These activities also highly increase chances that one reaches retirement actually in good shape, and can relatively kick ass till 75-80. I expect to be highly active during 60-70 retirement, based on genetics in my family. And a bit of luck obviously, one needs that for everything.

While doing these activities, I've met tons of people who are properly age-retired. During work week (maybe outside of July&August tourist seasons), you will find that most hikers in the Alps are retirees for example.

In Canada, doctors and hospitals are covered. But if you need a lot of drugs, you might need to keep working. You also need to budget for dental and vision, as those are also tied to employment agreements.

So if you want to do that, come to Canada before you retire and having a job here will help you get in.