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Re:Early Retirement (2006) by ryandrake on Wednesday August 04, 2021 @11:35AM (#28062231)
Will $80k a year be enough for any lifestyle? That's the question I struggle with. It's more than enough in today's dollars. But I have no idea what will happen with inflation and costs between now and retirement day. Maybe by the time I retire, $80k/yr will be poverty level. Maybe health insurance premiums alone will cost $80k/yr. Who knows! What will the value of the dollar be and to what extent will healthcare costs have grown? It makes it impossible to set a target. All those "save for retirement" online tools start with that nonsensical question: "How much income will you need in retirement?" How the F should I know? I can't predict the future.

EDIT: Yes, SOME tools will account for inflation by asking you what you think inflation might be between now and retirement day. (Who knows?) Most don't account for costs that will rise much faster than inflation, like housing and health care.

Re:Early Retirement (2006) by flak48 on Wednesday August 04, 2021 @11:39AM (#28062273)
The calculators usually account for inflation (and also for a percentage rate of return on the lumpsum you have saved), you would answer "How much income will you need in retirement?" with today's value of a $ (eg. if $80k a year would be enough for this year if you retired today)
Re:Early Retirement (2006) by SavantIdiot on Wednesday August 04, 2021 @12:05PM (#28062627)
> "How much income will you need in retirement?" How the F should I know? I can't predict the future.

Correct. But that doesn't mean you *shouldn't* plan. That's why you rebalance your portfolio every few years, and adjust your budgets, and expectations, and make lifestyle changes. It takes a lifetime to prepare for retirement. And its kinda hard to fuck up by your own hand if you are diligent: save 10-20%/yr., cover the basic investment grid, buy and hold. With 30+ years experience and many friends in the same boat, that's a winner.

Also, retiring on $100k today would require $148k/yr in 10 years with 4% inflation, so you're right, that number will at least go up via inflation.

That's why it matters who you vote for. Medicare/Medicaid will be your primary healthcare in your 60's, but we absolutely need the ACA/single-payer, not just for early retirees, but to prevent insurance companies from forever inflating premiums and bankrupting us.

Re:Early Retirement (2006) by dsfgjhkfdgkhj34 on Wednesday August 04, 2021 @11:45AM (#28062353)
There is uncertainty in everything, but your argument about inflation seems vacuous. The $80k figure is supposed to be real dollars, not nominal. A well diversified investment portfolio will include inflation resistant assets (such as REITs, energy stocks, or commodities).
Re:Early Retirement (2006) by gshubert17 on Wednesday August 04, 2021 @01:36PM (#28063863)
> How much income will you need...?

I tried to get my own answer for this question in a couple of ways (retired 5 years ago, age 62 so not early).

First, I tracked my expenses, but didn't have a planned budget. I wanted to know how much I spent and where it went. I kept monthly and yearly summaries on a spreadsheet and made charts to better visualize trends and variability. I think just tracking expenses was encouragement to live modestly and contribute regularly to savings: information not coercion.

Second, I tracked potential future income/benefits. I have an employer retirement plan and an IRA plan. Before retirement, I used the retirement plan's calculators to estimate that benefit. For my IRA I used a 4% withdrawal estimate.

Third, I assumed my expense totals would be the same in retirement. I might spend less on commuting, work clothes, etc., but more on medical care, vacation travel, and so on. I estimated housing costs for either renting or having a mortgage. (Ended up selling the house when I retired, moving and renting for 3 years, then buying a new place and getting a small mortgage for that.)

Over the short term, assumptions of continuity are reasonable. As you point out, the longer term is much more of a question mark. So, fourth, I tried to make allowances for uncertainties and contingencies. How much padding or margin did I want to be comfortable? Perhaps 10% to 20% more income than one's average expenses would feel comfortable? Perhaps a contingency plan for part-time work?

All these numbers will be in current dollars, so they will be comparable. What I discovered when running my numbers (after learning about an opportunity to buy some retirement plan benefits with money I had saved in a 401-K) was that I could then afford to retire. I can't predict the future either, but felt comfortable with the uncertainties I could see.

Following one's own situation roughly once a year, one can see how different conditions and assumptions give different results. Generally, the less one spends and the more savings one has, the more flexible one can be in choosing jobs, places to live, lifestyle, and so on.

Re:Early Retirement (2006) by throwaway894345 on Wednesday August 04, 2021 @12:59PM (#28063408)
By the time you're withdrawing, your house should be paid off and you no longer need to save anything for retirement so that $80K is all spending money. Further, you're collecting social security and a good chunk of your healthcare is covered by medicare.
Re:Early Retirement (2006) by ghaff on Wednesday August 04, 2021 @01:38PM (#28063882)
Even if your house is paid off, depending on the property, you may still have significant costs to budget for. I have an old house and a large property and between property tax, insurance, utilities, and maintenance (both routine and occasional large), I'm probably a good $1K/month.
Re:Early Retirement (2006) by throwaway894345 on Wednesday August 04, 2021 @01:41PM (#28063916)
If your property taxes and insurance are high it’s because your house is worth a lot of money. If your house’s value constitutes a large share of your net worth such that taxes and insurance are a burden then it indicates that too much of your equity is in your house and you should downsize.
Re:Early Retirement (2006) by ghaff on Wednesday August 04, 2021 @01:52PM (#28064047)
I never said they were a "burden." I was indicating that just because you've paid off your mortgage doesn't mean living in a house is free.

I think you'll find those numbers are not especially high for a house. (As opposed to a condo which have their own fees.) My house is not especially large--but it is about 200 years old although renovated so budgeting a few hundred dollars per month for maintenance seems reasonable.

I honestly doubt that most people could get the cost associated with maintaining a house below $500/month or so.

Re:Early Retirement (2006) by throwaway894345 on Wednesday August 04, 2021 @01:57PM (#28064130)
> I never said they were a "burden." I was indicating that just because you've paid off your mortgage doesn't mean living in a house is free.

No one claimed it was free, and if it’s not a burden then what’s the problem? My point is that $80K without a mortgage or retirement allocation leaves significantly more money left over than $80K with those expenses. Where is the problem?

Re:Early Retirement (2006) by ghaff on Wednesday August 04, 2021 @06:52PM (#28067483)
Of course. But my point was that your "spending money" may still need to budget $10+K/year to keep a roof over your head. (Of course, you can downsize and move someplace cheaper.)
Re:Early Retirement (2006) by PenguinCoder on Wednesday August 04, 2021 @11:48AM (#28062415)
I'm about at that salary level, and live fine in a LCOL Midwestern area. I'd love to make more money but then I'd just buy more crap. 80k is definitely a decent lifestyle. Though as you say by the time one retires, it might not be.
Re:Early Retirement (2006) by paulpauper on Wednesday August 04, 2021 @11:45AM (#28062366)
Aren't there tons of books and calculators for this?the value of the dollar is irrelevant if you live in the US. Inflation does not concern me much. Real estate and stocks have generally been good hedges.