News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:What Does My Site Cost? by sdflhasjd on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @07:31AM (#27759834)
The site is ~~wrong~~ somewhat correct about how big reddits homepage is.

~~It seems to not run any scripts when testing, so 1.5MB is the basic JS + CSS.~~

In reality, it's much, much worse. (On a desktop)

Even with an adblocker, reddit.com downloaded 18MB in the first 10 seconds. That would put that cost at over $1.

I stopped after that because it seemed to be just continuously downloading... something.

I know Reddit is quite media driven these days, but it seems to be unnecessary prefetching a lot

Edit: Looks like I was testing the desktop version, see jefftk's reply.

However, it doesn't help reddit's case that much. After looking into what it's actually downloading in my "desktop" test, there are lots of huge PNG images (1000x1000 +) that seem to be displayed as tiny thumbnails.

And for an infinitely scrolling page, it prefetches all the images in the feed at full resolution.

If I turn off my adblocker, I get an autoplaying amazon ad (~5MB).

Additionally, it starts auto-playing a livestreams which is just below the fold.

Re:What Does My Site Cost? by jefftk on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @07:41AM (#27759919)
> It seems to not run any scripts when testing

They source their claim to a WebPageTest run [1], and WPT does run scripts. I can reproduce their results as:

1. Open an incognito window in Chrome

2. Open devtools, and configure it as mobile

3. Navigate to reddit.com

4. See ~1.5MB transferred

[1] https://www.webpagetest.org/result/210707_AiDc36_6f01cdff93b...

Re:What Does My Site Cost? by sdflhasjd on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @07:49AM (#27759977)
You're right. Reddit seems to load a different homepage based on useragent.

I was using Firefox, but I could get the 1.55MB result by trying that.

Re:What Does My Site Cost? by jefftk on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @08:29AM (#27760323)
I get 1.22MB in Firefox with a similar approach:

1. New private browsing window

2. Open devtools networking

3. Responsive design mode: Galaxy S9

4. Load reddit.com

Re:What Does My Site Cost? by justanotherguy0 on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @09:05AM (#27760657)
IT'S BETTER ON THE APP

>>>DOWNLOAD THE APP<<<

Re:What Does My Site Cost? by app4soft on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @12:46PM (#27763142)
Re:What Does My Site Cost? by vorticalbox on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @07:49AM (#27759986)
I just did this in in private tabs and got:

firefox: 17.85 / 12.54 MB transferred, brave: 15 MB, vivaldi: 9.6 MB, chromium: 13.1 MB,

Re:What Does My Site Cost? by jefftk on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @08:27AM (#27760307)
Did you configure it as a mobile browser? Your numbers are about what I get if I configure it as desktop.
Re:What Does My Site Cost? by vorticalbox on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @10:08AM (#27761286)
I did not I tested as a desktop, using a mobile does drop it down to ~2 MB.

I actually think that Reddit is just loading less of the posts due to the small screen.

Re:What Does My Site Cost? by retSava on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @08:33AM (#27760354)
firefox with ublock origin, privacy badger and overall stuff turned off: 16.17 / 11.44 MB. Haven't scrolled anywhere yet.
Re:What Does My Site Cost? by liveoneggs on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @08:07AM (#27760151)
Re:What Does My Site Cost? by jefftk on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @08:32AM (#27760344)
Both WPT and browser devtools will, by default, tell you the data usage that happens just by visiting a page. As you interact with a page, for example by scrolling Reddit, you will cause more network traffic, yes. Since Reddit does infinite scroll, you can get Reddit to use arbitrary amounts of traffic this way.
Re:What Does My Site Cost? by liveoneggs on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @08:37AM (#27760394)
I was attempting to explain the disagreement up-thread. Also that article is full of really good tips and I just felt like posting it.
Re:What Does My Site Cost? by iso1631 on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @08:59AM (#27760596)
Highest roaming fee on a network I've connected to with Vodafone UK (On Air Aerospace) was £7.20 per MB (about $10)

That would make it $200+ to load the page including the advert.

Highest I've actually paid was in China at £3 per megabyte, and not only did I use normal phone stuff like data and email, because the UK network I was on allowed connections to my company, but the local wifi didn't, when I accidentally connected plugged in my phone without disabling tethering, the laptop started downloading stuff - ran up a $400 bill in about a minute before the flood of text messages I get every 5MB started to arrive (out of order) and I realised what was going on.

Re:What Does My Site Cost? by niij on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @09:19AM (#27760784)
Those are horrible fees. You can buy local sims for cheap when travelling to avoid those roaming fees.
Re:What Does My Site Cost? by iso1631 on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @12:42PM (#27763095)
Local sims in Beijing which will bust through the great firewall back to base for my 16 hour stay that I can just pick up for cash?
Re:What Does My Site Cost? by yellow_lead on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @01:44PM (#27763814)
You can pick them up for cash but often times they will ask to see your passport. They don't bust through the great firewall but in my experience foreign sims don't seem to either.
Re:What Does My Site Cost? by khc on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @02:44PM (#27764437)
google fi busted through GFW when I last went there in 2017
Re:What Does My Site Cost? by hnov on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @01:26PM (#27763597)
I've been traveling a lot and what I've done is setup an AT&T based MVNO on my iPhone's eSIM, freeing up the physical slot for local SIMs. With WiFi calling enabled on my AT&T line, I can go around the world spending peanuts compared even to Google Fi, while keeping my US number working.
Re:What Does My Site Cost? by rootusrootus on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @10:38AM (#27761615)
Or even just get t-mobile if you're based in the US, which has free roaming in many international locations
Re:What Does My Site Cost? by reaperducer on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @11:10AM (#27762010)
T-Mobile US' international roaming was almost useless when I was in Japan before the pandemic. Coverage was good on SoftBank, but even with five bars, my latest-and-greatest T-Mobile 4GLTE hotspot would only connect as 3G, and the speed was closer to dialup.

It seemed more of a marketing gimmick than a useful tool.

Re:What Does My Site Cost? by NovemberWhiskey on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @12:04PM (#27762647)
I think the basic problem here is that there's essentially no overlap between the LTE bands used by T-Mobile in the US and Softbank in Japan.

Unless you have a device with radios that happen to support extra bands that are not used in the US, then it's essentially incompatible with the Japanese network despite both being "LTE".

Re:What Does My Site Cost? by rootsudo on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @12:16PM (#27762796)
I disagree, it's a great tool - T-Mobile has roaming agreements with Softbank, NTT and DoCoMo, not KDDI.

The biggest issue is the phone bands, if your phone does not support the local bands, it will not connect.

I had no issue having a secondary phone in Japan w/ my T-mobile sim and having a local NTT sim. With dual sim/esim even easier nowadays to run both networks.

Re:What Does My Site Cost? by arcticbull on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @02:43PM (#27764426)
It actually gives you 5G in Canada and Mexico for free, which is particularly useful to me.

In international locations to your point it gets you enough for Maps and Mail, and some basic web browsing. You won't be streaming, that's for sure. However, if I need more than that, I use it to bootstrap an e-sim like GigSky which you can then route all data traffic to (at least on iOS) via Cellular settings.

This way you keep your phone number, iMessage, texting, and get 5G data too.

Re:What Does My Site Cost? by awill on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @01:15PM (#27763472)
I couldn't disagree more. Of course T-mobile's free roaming isn't going to be super fast. You can pay extra 4G/5G. But if you're hopping across countries, it's great. It's obviously not made for instagram/youtube.

T-Mobile's free 128kbs is enough for whatapp, navigation and a few emails (Their MAX plan gives free 256kbs).

Re:What Does My Site Cost? by SapporoChris on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @11:40AM (#27762324)
I had terrible problems with T-Mobile US international roaming in Japan also. I was able to make calls and recieve calls, however I was not able to use internet.

After basic troubleshooting T-Mobile requested that I call their international support on a 2nd phone and they would happily help me fix the problem with the original mobile phone.

Of course I didn't have access to a 2nd phone, I was livid. Cancelled the contract with T-Mobile and got local service. Even in cancelling T-Mobile couldn't get it right, they sent me two additional bills for trivial amounts in the months that followed. Each bill under a dollar.

Re:What Does My Site Cost? by xeromal on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @12:04PM (#27762639)
I'm no longer with T-Mobile US but I used it in Peru, Iceland, Mexico, Morocco, Brazil, Bolivia, and Italy without issue. Maybe Japan is a fluke but working service in North Africa and South America speaks volumes for me.
Re:What Does My Site Cost? by com2kid on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @12:49PM (#27763175)
I don't rely on their international roaming to do hotspot work, but it suffices to check HN, use google maps to get around, and order uber if I am in a place w/o amazing mass transit.
Re:What Does My Site Cost? by dannyw on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @12:51PM (#27763200)
Your device is not compatible on Japanese LTE.
Re:What Does My Site Cost? by ykat7 on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @02:47PM (#27764476)
"On Air Aerospace" being an inflight roaming [1] provider like AeroMobile, right?

I recall getting a text about that £7.20 fee during a flight a couple years ago.

[1]: https://www.aeromobile.net/inflight-roaming/

Re:What Does My Site Cost? by bb101 on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @09:42AM (#27761012)
Better to get a Ubigi or Truphone eSim, much cheaper data roaming if you're not willing to get a local SIM.
Re:What Does My Site Cost? by arcticbull on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @02:45PM (#27764447)
I've found GigSky cheaper than Truphone, but ill check out Ubigi
Re:What Does My Site Cost? by hanniabu on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @10:00AM (#27761202)
> I know Reddit is quite media driven

Yet they still have a worse video player than what was available in the early 2000s

Re:What Does My Site Cost? by jefftk on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @08:56AM (#27760564)
> it doesn't help reddit's case that much. After looking into what it's actually downloading in my "desktop" test, there are lots of huge PNG images (1000x1000 +) that seem to be displayed as tiny thumbnails.

I'm not able to reproduce this either. Here's a desktop WPT run: https://www.webpagetest.org/result/210707_BiDcXB_65148b09266...

Could you share a screenshot, or a link to one of these oversized PNGs?

Re:What Does My Site Cost? by tkadlec on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @10:04AM (#27761243)
You probably already noticed, but you can also access site cost data from the WebPageTest itself. (Note the cost column in the metric summary for your linked test, for example: https://www.webpagetest.org/result/210707_BiDcXB_65148b09266...)
Re:What Does My Site Cost? by r1ch on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @10:26AM (#27761478)
It depends a lot on which posts are on the frontpage and what rewards they've been given. Those tiny little icons next to each post can be upwards of 1 MB each as they are rendered with ridiculous resolutions sometimes (eg https://www.redditstatic.com/gold/awards/icon/Illuminati_512...)
Re:What Does My Site Cost? by matheusmoreira on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @07:44AM (#27759946)
What about old.reddit.com?
Re:What Does My Site Cost? by mattl on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @08:46AM (#27760468)
Re:What Does My Site Cost? by giantrobot on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @12:35PM (#27763004)
https://i.reddit.com is a shortcut for that. It's the most usable Reddit interface IMO.
Re:What Does My Site Cost? by lurtbancaster on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @11:18AM (#27762093)
I also recommend libreddit - https://github.com/spikecodes/libreddit

Recently on teddit.net, I've been getting an "Unable to connect" via some Tor Exit Nodes. So I'm having to create new circuits until teddit loads.

Re:What Does My Site Cost? by matheusmoreira on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @09:13AM (#27760728)
I didn't know about this, thanks!
Re:What Does My Site Cost? by techrat on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @11:51AM (#27762475)
The point may be that, by default, Reddit's website is now incredibly heavy for something that was once a lean and nimble site when it comes to media.
Re:What Does My Site Cost? by coldcode on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @09:47AM (#27761062)
It's the only way I will read reddit. It does seem smaller (on Safari Big Sur I get 5.5MB).
Re:What Does My Site Cost? by MaxBarraclough on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @12:45PM (#27763136)
Still horrendous. Where's that data going?
Re:What Does My Site Cost? by jcun4128 on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @02:08PM (#27764072)
I can't imagine the internet without adblockers... I can't watch mobile YouTube because of that... I know there are options but still. There is some bad stuff out there too I recently came across this reversecaptcha thing wow... that sucks. It prompts you like the location/cam permission allow/block stuff (top left of browser).
Re:What Does My Site Cost? by notjustanymike on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @12:00PM (#27762599)
Not to mention the time one of their scripts got stuck in a loop and caused my 2 Gigabyte plan to explode in 20 minutes.
Re:What Does My Site Cost? by tomcam on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @12:44PM (#27763126)
Hurts just to read this
Re:What Does My Site Cost? by notjustanymike on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @01:38PM (#27763755)
"Why is my phone so hot? What are all these alerts?"
Re:What Does My Site Cost? by fhsm on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @07:39AM (#27759903)
Wow. That's a lot.

I'm not sure how to replicate this but I would be curious what old.reddit.com does via an equivalent methodology.

Re:What Does My Site Cost? by alpaca128 on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @07:53AM (#27760013)
Firefox dev tools said ~1.3MB transferred. I think it's the increased number of thumbnails per "page", even though they're smaller. On the other hand it has no autoplaying videos and livestreams.
Re:What Does My Site Cost? by mdoms on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @02:58PM (#27764604)
I don't think you're looking at the right thing. When I load reddit.com with no ad blockers I'm seeing 1.2MB transferred over the wire for a total of 18MB of uncompressed resources.

Edit - after waiting about a minute it crept up to 5.2MB transferred for somehow the same amount of uncompressed resources.

Re:What Does My Site Cost? by thaumasiotes on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @08:47AM (#27760471)
> Even with an adblocker, reddit.com downloaded 18MB in the first 10 seconds.

I loaded https://www.reddit.com/ in Firefox with an adblocker; the network inspector showed 4.8 MB transferred.

Re:What Does My Site Cost? by ksec on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @08:26AM (#27760303)
I thought an interesting comparison would be Mobile Web Reddit and Reddit App on Data usage.
Re:What Does My Site Cost? by arbitrage on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @08:37AM (#27760384)
i mean a lot of that is adjustable in settings if you create an account.
Re:What Does My Site Cost? by pstuart on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @03:39PM (#27764979)
The reddit iphone app is a data/cpu pig.