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Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by mattacular on Sunday June 20, 2021 @11:26AM (#27570943)
Good! Most modern cars made in the last few decades will easily run for 200,000 miles if properly maintained (oil changes and belts).

I don't need the absolute latest and greatest computer safety features. Some of them sound nice but if it has side+passenger airbags and seatbelts then that is good enough for me.

On the flip side, one of my family members gets a new car every year through some kind of special leasing program. Not only does that seem wasteful from a number of angles but how do you not get attached to a car you love driving? Once I find a car I like then I don't want to give it up unless maintenance becomes prohibitively expensive and even then it can be tough.

Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by csours on Sunday June 20, 2021 @01:26PM (#27572110)
The new car doesn't evaporate when your family member is done with it! The dealer likely makes a pretty penny on selling those, or re-leasing them as is becoming more common.
Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by Scoundreller on Sunday June 20, 2021 @02:07PM (#27572459)
And eventually exporting them or sending them to a boneyard where they end up as bits and pieces of other cars.

The usual boneyard model these days immediately cut off the high-value parts for themselves (cat converters, rims, batteries or tires if they're newer, maybe body parts), drop it on cinder blocks for 3 months for U-pullers to take off other parts, and then crush them.

(This is why I buy mass-model Toyotas, easy to fix, always spare parts, always a buyer)

Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by prions on Sunday June 20, 2021 @11:31AM (#27570996)
On the downside, the engines in cars will pollute more as they age. This will make reducing pollution more difficult as people stick to their older and less efficient cars.
Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by gardncl on Sunday June 20, 2021 @11:35AM (#27571033)
You're discounting the immense carbon footprint of building a new car then shipping it to the dealer. A number I remember, that might be wrong, is that over 50% of a car's lifetime emissions happen before it leaves the factory.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/green-living-blog/20...

Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by ClumsyPilot on Sunday June 20, 2021 @04:14PM (#27573498)
"over 50% of a car's lifetime emissions happen before it leaves the factory."

Totally wrong, it's only 20%

Think about it - if most of emission wad in production, electric cars would make no sence, they have higher production footprint and lower running footprint

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/society/201...

Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by prions on Sunday June 20, 2021 @11:43AM (#27571147)
I'm not discounting it. I just care more about point-source pollution than carbon footprints abstracted across a global supply chain.

The footprints can be reduced at scale over time, whereas these cars will be continuously producing more pollution as they age.

Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by defterGoose on Sunday June 20, 2021 @12:18PM (#27571496)
This is a really misguided opinion. Even an EV still has a significant carbon footprint in terms of electricity production. While it is possible to reduce or negate this with renewables in the future, its much less likely that building them now has a less significant carbon footprint. Plus, the old ICE vehicles people are driving are still providing lots of value with their cost already sunk. Its not like a lot of people are daily driving their classic Impala from the 60s.
Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by systemvoltage on Sunday June 20, 2021 @07:55PM (#27574897)
> I'm not discounting it. I just care more about point-source pollution than carbon footprints abstracted across a global supply chain.

Pardon me, but isn't that the definition of 'discounting'?. As in, you're ignoring that portion of the carbon footprint.

Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by shkkmo on Sunday June 20, 2021 @02:59PM (#27572925)
> The footprints can be reduced at scale over time

Which arguably supports driving older cars longer because not only does it reduce the overall frequency of car manufacturer, it also pushes that manufacturing process further into the future when the environmental impact of manufacturing a replacement would be lower.

Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by bongoman37 on Sunday June 20, 2021 @01:36PM (#27572200)
Yeah, blast furnaces aren't exactly carbon neutral.
Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by Scoundreller on Sunday June 20, 2021 @02:19PM (#27572552)
Cars get recycled though, maybe not to automotive steel grade, but autos are more like metal storage than metal destruction.
Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by ClumsyPilot on Sunday June 20, 2021 @04:10PM (#27573464)
Metals can be recycled perfectly to space/medical/marine/any grade, they do not degrade like plasics. You can get a collection of metal scraps and produce pure elemental iron if you want
Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by thaumasiotes on Sunday June 20, 2021 @11:28AM (#27570971)
Let's not forget that car manufacturers seem to be determined to ensure that new cars are worse than old cars. What do I want in a car?

- No bluetooth.

- No touchscreens.

- Really, no screens at all.

- Cabled audio input.

A rearview camera is a good thing, except it still manages to make the car worse overall because the manufacturers somehow can't stop themselves from using the screen to display other things that should have been displayed in another way.

Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by kayodelycaon on Sunday June 20, 2021 @11:38AM (#27571075)
Worse for you. I happen to like bluetooth, backup cameras, wireless keys, and a lot of the other modern features cars have now.

Manufacturers definitely went wrong putting important controls in the touch screen. That’s a usability nightmare. I’d consider the rest to be personal preference.

Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by thaumasiotes on Sunday June 20, 2021 @11:43AM (#27571149)
Wireless keys are a feature from the 90s.
Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by whynotminot on Sunday June 20, 2021 @01:11PM (#27571965)
So are cell phones. But there’s a difference in their quality and ubiquity now right?
Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by thaumasiotes on Sunday June 20, 2021 @05:02PM (#27573883)
No? They let you unlock your car from a distance. This is of pretty questionable utility in the first place, since you can't benefit from the unlocking without being next to the car, but it worked then just as well as it works now.
Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by whynotminot on Monday June 21, 2021 @12:29PM (#27580764)
Mine at least does a lot more than that. For instance, it's smart enough to know if you put the key in the trunk and will automatically open the trunk back up. It has pretty good awareness of where it is in relation to the car, which gives me more confidence in using it that I won't do something stupid and lock myself out (or at least not be allowed to do something stupid). If those earlier systems from the 90s were just as precisely "self aware" then I'll concede this point to you, but I suspect they weren't so well integrated.

As far as the "questionable utility goes", I frankly love it. I love just walking up to my car and having it unlock for me. Sure, it's not much, but it's kind of the equivalent of Touch ID or Face ID on a phone these days. Sure, entering a PIN code isn't the hardest thing in the world, but it's the little things that make life just a smidge less annoying, right?

You didn't address my point regarding their ubiquity now, so I feel like you kinda decided to only address half my point...

Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by kayodelycaon on Monday June 21, 2021 @11:24PM (#27587606)
I meant RFID keys. I never need to take mine out of my pocket. My door unlocks when I touch it. My car starts when I push the on button.
Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by ceejayoz on Sunday June 20, 2021 @01:12PM (#27571971)
My 2016 Corolla still came with an old fashioned key.
Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by Silhouette on Sunday June 20, 2021 @11:55AM (#27571284)
Manufacturers definitely went wrong putting important controls in the touch screen. That’s a usability nightmare. I’d consider the rest to be personal preference.

I'm not sure I'd consider permanent connectivity and the related telemetry and OTA updates to be personal preference. These are often being used in ways contrary to the owner's or driver's interests, from invading privacy to "licensing" vehicle features that can be disabled later, and they come with significant security and safety risks.

Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by mattacular on Sunday June 20, 2021 @11:40AM (#27571114)
I'm with you on this. Integrated bluetooth is nice to have, but if you have just aux in then you can get nearly 100% of the same functionality via a bluetooth adapter. That would be my only reason not to get an old car but even then, the cassette tape adapters are pretty good substitute for aux in.
Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by midasuni on Sunday June 20, 2021 @04:05PM (#27573421)
Cars with a standard size din connected radio can have Bluetooth without any of the other stuff - far better than a c90 adapter, and usually with have 3.5mm and usb power as well.
Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by zdragnar on Sunday June 20, 2021 @02:51PM (#27572856)
You can get rearview cameras that integrate into the rear view mirror. It does make for a tiny screen, and good luck finding that on a new car, but the option exists for older cars at least.
Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by toomuchtodo on Sunday June 20, 2021 @11:30AM (#27570983)
Old cars can be maintained to run for hundreds of thousands of miles, but you might run into a catastrophic failure (main seal leak or similar) where the cost of the repair exceeds the value of the vehicle.
Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by lumost on Sunday June 20, 2021 @11:36AM (#27571043)
The odds of this happening is declining over time. You can see the change in used car prices where popular reliable cars like the crv or crosstrek maintain a resale value above 10k for 5-10 years dependent on trim.
Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by asdff on Monday June 21, 2021 @01:48AM (#27576644)
You can't fight rust and degrading rubber. That's whats killing these old cars. My parents just walked away from a 14 year old Subaru. Headgasket was shot, fuel lines and brake lines rusted and shot, whole laundry list of other rusted and shot components like suspension, dash lit up like a chrismas tree, total bill was going to look like $15k for a car that wasn't worth $9k even before all this went down. A car is a wear item and eventually needs replacing unless you have years worth of knowhow and own expensive equipment like a lift and sometimes specialized tools for your vehicle.
Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by jjav on Monday June 21, 2021 @08:50PM (#27586646)
> That's whats killing these old cars.

Matter of perspective.. the only thing you list that I'd consider a concern to investigate is the "dash lit up like a chrismas tree". Everything else you mention is cheap replacement work.

The warning lights could be just a few cheap sensors but could also be very expensive ECU replacements. So that one I'd have to dig deeper but the rest wouldn't bother me to buy such a car and fix it up in a weekend.

Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by throwaway0a5e on Sunday June 20, 2021 @10:24PM (#27575684)
"popular reliable" is basically just "what all the rich people bought last decade"

They maintain value because a Sienna that's had an easy 100k miles with by the book maintenance is in much nicer shape and inherently has more life left than a Pacifica that was rode hard and put away wet over the same time period and distance.

Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by FraaJad on Sunday June 20, 2021 @11:37AM (#27571059)
the buyer should think about the replacement value of the vehicle.

I might spend $1500 on my 12 year old car (which is "only" worth 4200 according to KBB), instead of spending lot more money to get a different used car with unknown issues or a hefty monthly payment.

Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by dbcurtis on Sunday June 20, 2021 @12:03PM (#27571352)
Plus insurance will go up, and in California the annual license fee is partly based on the value of the car.
Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by brianwawok on Sunday June 20, 2021 @01:17PM (#27572023)
My modern car made my insurance rate go down. Most of your rate is about damage you cause to others. Modern safety features, at least according to my insurance company math team, make my car less likely to hurt someone else or their car.
Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by zepearl on Sunday June 20, 2021 @05:55PM (#27574261)
> My modern car made my insurance rate go down.

Same here. Bought a Volvo which is more expensive and has a more powerful engine than the Opel that I had before for 16 years, I have even added some options to the insurance coverage compared to before, but now I pay 300$ less than before => of course I'm happy, but it's weird, didn't expect this... .

Maybe the car's brand has as well something to do with it? Maybe some statistics show that for some reason Opel drivers cause more damages or whatever... . Misterious... .

Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by Scoundreller on Sunday June 20, 2021 @02:15PM (#27572524)
In an efficient market anyway, and auto insurance definitely isn't where I am!

Theft premium stays the same, even though replacement cost has gone down and it's less valuable as a target. You'd think other cars becoming safer on average would decrease the risk of getting into accidents at their fault and at my fault, but the comprehensive premium stays the same on a now older car.

I find it hard to believe that auto thieves somehow avoid the equally dense town 1hr down the highway.

Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by Johnny555 on Sunday June 20, 2021 @04:37PM (#27573685)
If you have an old enough car, and are willing to pay the cost to replace if it you get into an accident, you can drop the comprehensive and collision coverage. This makes my old 2003 car cheaper to insure than my 2020 car, though I'm taking a bit extra financial risk, so it's not an apples to apples comparison.
Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by imtringued on Sunday June 20, 2021 @04:53PM (#27573804)
I "repaired" a car that was worth 600€ because without a repair nobody would be willing to buy it for its true value. I'm pretty sure value of the car (to me) exceeds 600€ + the cost of repair now.

Your calculation is silly and so many people fall into this trap. If you want to calculate whether a repair is worth it you have to either calculate cost per mile or cost per month. If a repair costs 1000€ and buying a new car would get you 200€ monthly payments and the repaired car survives 5 months then you just broke even and every month after that is profit. Your new car is never going to make you a profit.

The only thing you lost is the opportunity cost of not driving a new car.

When people say "where the cost of the repair exceeds the value of the vehicle." what they really mean is that they want a new car and there is nothing wrong with that but it is absolutely not cheaper than maintaining the old car a little bit longer.

Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by erikpukinskis on Sunday June 20, 2021 @07:11PM (#27574668)
I always thought they were saying, “Sell the car for scrap, take the money you would’ve spent on the repair and buy another (functioning) car for 600€ cash“.

I don’t think they’re saying “get a new car with a monthly loan.”

Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by overcast on Sunday June 20, 2021 @02:06PM (#27572449)
So what? So you spend $3000, instead of $50,000 for a new car. Not having a car payment is an amazing feeling.
Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by midasuni on Monday June 21, 2021 @04:27AM (#27577319)
Spend $3000 a year keeping some clunker working and hoping a big bill doesn’t come along, or spend $2400 a year for a new car.
Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by jjav on Monday June 21, 2021 @09:01PM (#27586733)
> Spend $3000 a year keeping some clunker working and hoping a big bill doesn’t come along, or spend $2400 a year for a new car.

Assuming we're talking economic cars (Honda, Toyota, Mazda, etc), it is very difficult to imagine spending $3K a year in maintenance. Maybe once in a decade if you're super unlucky.

These are cars that'll go on nearly forever on just an oil change a year (less than $100) and belts and tires every so-many years (depending how much you drive).

There is no math in the world that'll make a new car cheaper to own and operate than an old reliable brand car. If you enjoy newer cars, enjoy! But it won't be cheaper.

Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by midasuni on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @04:04AM (#27589145)
You can believe that if you want, my mother just paid $2800 to get her Citroen through another year. Throw in the 1000 a year deprecation as well and it’s far cheaper, and more importantly more predictable, to have a new car.
Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by jjav on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @01:33PM (#27594568)
> it’s far cheaper, and more importantly more predictable, to have a new car

It can never be cheaper to have a new car. Do the math objectively and this is clear.

It can be more predictable, if you value that. Lease a new car, you know exactly what you're paying every month and for how long. Sure. But it'll be a lot more than an old car.

> You can believe that if you want

I don't believe, I have all my car expenses tracked since the early 90s so I know what I spend. In those 30 years I've mostly had cheap reliable old cars and a few new cars. The new cars have their joy, but they are a huge money pit. Currently my newest car is 17 years old and the oldest is 33 years old.

No new cars for me ever again, I let others pay the depreciation so I can get nearly-free transportation.

If you wanted cheap transportation, there's nothing cheaper to own than a ~$3K-4K used Honda/Mazda/Toyota. You obviously cannot have 1K/year in depreciation on a car that cost so little. New cars will be guaranteed to depreciate way more than that though.

The strategy for cheap transportation is buy that reliable car for 3-4K, drive it for ten+ years with minimal maintenance, insure for liability only. At the end of the years you can sell it for pretty much same as the buy price if you kept it clean. You can easily verify this by looking at craigslist prices for, say, a Honda Civic from the 90s to the 00s. A clean running car will only depreciate to a certain point and no more. If you buy it at the bottom of the depreciation curve you won't lose any money in depreciation. For some models, if you hold them for a while, it'll actually appreciate.

A Citroen is not a Honda/Mazda/Toyota. With an esoteric car like that, I don't doubt parts are expensive and reliability is low.

Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by midasuni on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @06:02PM (#27611052)
Citroen’s very common in my county - far more than a Mazda

Your experience may be that used cars are cheap. My experinece over 20 years is that’s not always the case. I’ve had good used cars and awful used cars, the awful ones costing more than my current lease even before you get into the less concrete value of reliability and comfort.

I don’t deny that used cars can be cheaper. I simply state that’s not always the case.

Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by overcast on Monday June 21, 2021 @09:10AM (#27578777)
Why does it have to be a clunker? In what world are you buying a $12,000 car? Used? So you're guaranteed at least $2400 a year, or maybe $3000 a year(which is ridiculous) keeping an older car going.
Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by throwaway0a5e on Sunday June 20, 2021 @10:23PM (#27575677)
A main seal leak isn't catastrophic, just inconvenient, for the kind of people who own older cars. Tons of other things fall into this category.
Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by 2OEH8eoCRo0 on Sunday June 20, 2021 @01:46PM (#27572278)
Repair cost exceeding the value of the vehicle is still cheaper than getting a new car. A new car is almost always a bad deal.
Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by rsj_hn on Sunday June 20, 2021 @01:59PM (#27572390)
Well those aren't the only alternatives. Most people just turn around and get another used car again.
Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by rsj_hn on Sunday June 20, 2021 @01:57PM (#27572371)
I would not say "might" but "will". Eventually the car becomes more expensive to maintain than to replace. But that is not some terrible thing to avoid, it's just a recognition that the car has a finite life you need to estimate when making your purchasing decision, so those maintenance costs are fairly shared by the seller and buyer, with the seller paying half the future maintenance forward in the form of depreciation and the buyer agreeing to take on the other half in exchange for a cheaper car.
Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by lowercased on Sunday June 20, 2021 @01:46PM (#27572277)
2004 sebring. Traded in in 2018 after 235k miles - I'd had reasonable maintenance on it, but last couple years was getting to be a bit more each year. Last 6 month my mechanic said "it needs engine work, but I can't tell you how much it will be until I take apart the engine, and... that's probably going to cost more than a couple thousand all told.". 235k miles wasn't too bad. I got a 2016 car for around $12k with ... 7k miles on it, getting around 40mpg now, and it's doing fine. I don't want to keep it another 12-13 years, but suspect I could, given how it's holding up so far and how much I drive.
Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by jjav on Monday June 21, 2021 @08:41PM (#27586567)
> but you might run into a catastrophic failure (main seal leak or similar)

That's hardly a catastrophic failure, it'll just leak oil and you can schedule repairs at convenience. Having replaced a few, it's also a cheap part.

Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by toomuchtodo on Monday June 21, 2021 @08:49PM (#27586639)
Some main seal leaks happen slowly, some all of a sudden. If it happens suddenly, and your engine runs without oil, it is catastrophic.
Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by bradleyjg on Sunday June 20, 2021 @11:31AM (#27570989)
It’s remarkable how much they’ve improved. When was the last time you saw a car on the side of the road with its hood up and steam pouring out of the engine compartment?
Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by dharmab on Sunday June 20, 2021 @11:43AM (#27571155)
Yesterday. A man with a truck at the top of a mountain pass, waiting in a camping chair with a jug of water for his tow.
Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by bradleyjg on Sunday June 20, 2021 @12:12PM (#27571435)
I guess I stand corrected. It’s been a long time for me.
Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by throwaway0a5e on Sunday June 20, 2021 @10:54PM (#27575824)
>When was the last time you saw a car on the side of the road with its hood up and steam pouring out of the engine compartment?

Friday afternoon. Although to be fair it was gray ATF smoke and not steam.

I stopped and asked the guy what was up because I probably could have helped if it was easy and the details of the situation favored doing so.

Turns out "muh million mile 4Runner" had sprung a leak in the transmission cooling plumbing. Based on the age of the vehicle I decided it would be better for him to get it towed than have me attempt a field repair so I lectured him on the basics of how an automatic transmission works and why he would be maxing an expensive gamble with bad odds if he were to pour a couple quarts in it and try to make it a few miles to where he was going rather than tow it.

Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by throwaway1777 on Sunday June 20, 2021 @11:41AM (#27571119)
Actually I did see that yesterday. But it was 98 degrees outside and an older car
Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by oceanplexian on Sunday June 20, 2021 @12:07PM (#27571393)
The mechanical bits might last 200,000 miles, but no one will be able to use the software in a decade because it was based on some proprietary interface developed by a defunct car manufacturer. For example you might be able to replace a blind spot detection sensor in the future, but since the parts are coded and require a cloud service to 'activate' you are more or less screwed. And, most likely the manufacturer designed the computer to refuse to allow the car to start without the sensor so you are left with a heavy, environmentally-destructive paperweight to send straight to the crusher.
Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by chiph on Sunday June 20, 2021 @02:00PM (#27572403)
My DVD based navigation system is on the newest maps it will ever have .. from 2015. It'd be nice if the data & build tools became open-source after being abandoned for ten years, but it's not up to Toyota - it's up to Garmin/Kenwood/etc. that built the unit for them.
Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by nradov on Sunday June 20, 2021 @10:27PM (#27575693)
Garmin at least continues to provide map updates even for quite old GPS units.
Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by asdff on Monday June 21, 2021 @01:56AM (#27576679)
At least for now you can still swap out head units in cars.
Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by mattacular on Sunday June 20, 2021 @12:35PM (#27571637)
If you shop ~pre-2014 or so models you should not have this terrible problem. I would do as much research as I could and get something older just to avoid such things. In my household both cars are older than that and my (independent) mechanic can do anything we require. Granted, that is today, and in the likely future we may not be so lucky so enjoy it while it lasts!
Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by pureliquidhw on Sunday June 20, 2021 @11:41AM (#27571121)
Someone needs to buy a new car so everyone else can get that deal on a used one. I played the lease game before, ended up driving brand new cars for around $2000 a year. After 10 years I paid around 20k, sure, but I also had a new car every 2.5 years (dealers are always buying out leases to get you into a new new car).

New cars aren't, or at least weren't, always this massive financial blunder people claim.

If it ends up costing you a few grand more per decade, why not lease, live within bumper to bumper warranties, and create the vehicles people actually seem to want, used ones.

Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by Retric on Sunday June 20, 2021 @02:29PM (#27572657)
Lease payments aren’t the issue with that strategy, taxes are.

All told I am probably spending about 1/2 or less what you are per decade by swapping leases every 2.5 years vs buying new and keeping it until it’s not worth maintaining. And that’s with buying nice new cars and always getting it repaired at the dealership. Which conversely means you can also drive a nicer model at the same price.

Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by JKCalhoun on Sunday June 20, 2021 @02:43PM (#27572786)
And probably requiring full coverage on insurance.

New cars remind you every year how much you paid for them....

Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by adwi on Sunday June 20, 2021 @01:36PM (#27572198)
What cars were you leasing for $167/mo?
Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by dtnewman on Sunday June 20, 2021 @02:51PM (#27572858)
I had a Hyundai Elantra for $165/month after tax plus about $300 in various fees at the start of the lease. But to get great lease deals you have to love the process of seeking them out and negotiating. Otherwise, just suck it up and pay a bit more, save yourself some time. Rodo.com is a great place for many decent lease deals where they’ll even deliver the car to you.
Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by sbierwagen on Sunday June 20, 2021 @01:50PM (#27572316)
You can lease a Nissan Leaf for like $100 a month.
Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by Scoundreller on Sunday June 20, 2021 @02:24PM (#27572610)
I'm seeing US$159-$199/month.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1129864_nissan-leaf-lea...

Basically unobtainium lease rates outside of USA. In Canada, I'm seeing ~US$400/month for 60 month lease on a Leaf, and 40% more on a 3y lease: https://www.leasecosts.ca/en/cars/nissan/leaf-s-electric/202...

Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by mattlondon on Sunday June 20, 2021 @04:30PM (#27573624)
Likewise in the UK - Nissan leaf is about £300/month or about 415USD.

I feel like leasing in the UK is not a good deal, at least to me. I think a fair amount of people outside of tech get a company car allowance that probably props up prices a bit - I don't see why anyone else would pay these rates unless they absolutely must have a new car Vs a used one

Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by shiftpgdn on Sunday June 20, 2021 @02:24PM (#27572611)
You could get a Chevy Bolt fairly recently for like $30/mo.
Re:Americans Are Keeping Their Cars Longer, as Vehicle Age H... by snotrockets on Monday June 21, 2021 @12:11AM (#27576245)
From my own research, those numbers requires you to make less than ~$65k for various tax rebates. Actual cost in CA for a Bolt is more like ~$200/month for a 10mi/year lease (which isn't a bad deal in itself, but far from $30).