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Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by ccouzens on Sunday April 11, 2021 @06:40AM (#26769279)
I think running your dev environment in a VM is the future on all platforms.

As developers we trust so many different libraries. And it is important that they are safe when used in production code.

But we shouldn't have to worry about accidentally installing a library which uploads our emails or our browser data. By working from a VM we can prevent that.

The worst a malicious library can do from a VM is upload our SSH keys or source code (which is still bad).

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by josephg on Sunday April 11, 2021 @06:57AM (#26769373)
I hear what you're saying, but the last time I worked through a linux VM on my mac laptop, everything got much slower. Our nodejs service took 2-3x longer to start up or to build. I think the issue was filesystem overhead for some reason. The future might involve working from a VM when we have CPU cycles to spare. But right now I need every iota of speed my computer has for my rust compiler.

I'd much rather we solve the security problems using better local sandboxing for software, like how it works on our phones. That would help end users as well, and it would stop crypto ransomware and all sorts of other attacks. Or alternatively, run my dev tools from a solaris zone or a freebsd jail or something, both of which have no performance impact.

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by tbrock on Sunday April 11, 2021 @07:49AM (#26769622)
This is why running something like VSCode on your Mac with the remote ssh dev setup is the best of all worlds.

https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/remote/remote-overview

Virtualized Linux on x86 AND being able to run VSCode on your Mac for great fonts, WiFi, screen etc without having to fuss with drivers.

Of course ssh and tmux also work well for this purpose.

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by vehemenz on Sunday April 11, 2021 @09:09AM (#26770100)
This is pretty neat, but I think the overhead saved with complete remote development might be cancelled out by using VSCode instead of a JetBrains IDE.

People are advocating remote development heavily, so there must be some *huge* benefit that I don't understand. So much so that people are willing to give up amazing features of an IDE. To get VSCode to a usable state requires 16 third-party plugins, and you're left with about 1/3 of JetBrains functionality, in which the features aren't quite as good. YMMV I guess?

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by cpbotha on Sunday April 11, 2021 @12:04PM (#26771282)
I've been paying for the JetBrains toolbox for a few years now, I'm a huge fan.

However, JetBrains unfortunately has nothing coming close to the transparency and speed of the VSCode remote connection, with your source living only on the remote side.

In cases where being able to work on remote, for example very particular configurations, or docker containers, or WSL2, this makes a huge difference.

For me this is mostly Python and TypeScript these days, where VSCode has grown particularly strong in terms of IDE features.

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by ak217 on Sunday April 11, 2021 @12:11PM (#26771354)
The huge benefit comes in when your project involves loading large datasets or talking to cloud APIs. Both cases can be a non-starter on a local Mac (no local disk space, no bandwidth, or the latency overhead of a 100 ms RTT vs. 5 ms RTT adding up over thousands of requests). I would also point out that Docker on Mac is far less efficient than Docker on Linux, since it runs a separate VM.

VS Code Remote is a game changer. It's how IDEs should work. It allows you to run all the GUI chrome locally for responsive editing, while letting the remote do all the heavy lifting (including building, debugging, testing, and deploying). It finally overcomes the latency and other usability issues of using a wimpy local box to connect to a powerful remote box to write software.

I never used VS Code much and otherwise prefer JetBrains myself. But the remote development extension changed my workflow permanently, and I now recommend it to all my colleagues who develop cloud/data intensive code.

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by oblio on Sunday April 11, 2021 @09:18AM (#26770152)
And Jetbrains is working on a solution: https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2021/03/11/projector-is-out/

It's still beta so they have a lot of work to do.

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by GordonS on Sunday April 11, 2021 @01:26PM (#26771924)
Oh wow, I'm a JetBrains fan, but didn't know about this - if it delivers in the same way as the remote extensions for VSCode, it's going to be great!

Have you tried the Projector beta yet?

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by crummy on Sunday April 11, 2021 @06:07PM (#26773919)
I have. It's very impressive but not ready for daily use IMO. (I tested it with IntelliJ).

However, the 2012.1 releases now support running code on via WSL2 or SSH, which is closer to VS Code's setup. https://blog.jetbrains.com/idea/2021/02/intellij-idea-2021-1...

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by oblio on Sunday April 11, 2021 @05:58PM (#26773839)
Yes. It's based on toolkit remoting. Think RDP.
Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by arvindamirtaa on Sunday April 11, 2021 @11:38PM (#26775865)
If only Jetbrains added something more modern to sync files with a remote host, instead of the SLOW SFTP way they do it now, I'd be an instant convert.

Recently, I've settled for using my remote machine as the source of truth for my codebase (a monorepo) and only sync specific directories I work with locally.

Remote docker interpreter (python) + this is a workable-enough solution. It's not ideal - I still have to switch to the terminal to run git, tests, etc. Compared to this, the VSCode way is just simply better; especially if you don't use all the features of a full-blown IDE.

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by fossuser on Sunday April 11, 2021 @11:59AM (#26771251)
I hope IntelliJ eventually figures out remote dev.

Benefits are more obvious on massive code bases that take a long time to build, test (or really just do anything).

IntelliJ will get stuck indexing forever and can be frustrating to use - having the code live on beefy servers that can run the computationally expensive bits faster can make a big difference.

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by dangoor on Sunday April 11, 2021 @09:32AM (#26770239)
I think Jetbrains IDEs can do the same thing:

https://www.jetbrains.com/help/go/creating-a-remote-server-c...

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by fossuser on Sunday April 11, 2021 @12:04PM (#26771285)
I think what you linked to is different, but they recently announced working on a real remote dev option: https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2021/03/11/projector-is-out/

Their old server config is just pointing to a repo I think, but isn’t remote dev.

I looked into this last year before their recent announcement and at the time they said it wasn’t on their roadmap, but looks like that thankfully changed.

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by stef25 on Sunday April 11, 2021 @10:01AM (#26770430)
> To get VSCode to a usable state requires 16 third-party plugins

You mean this literally? It took just that one plugin for me, when experimenting with using another machine on my network as the dev environment.

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by j1elo on Sunday April 11, 2021 @12:00PM (#26771261)
Believe them, VS Code is a strange beast in that it's really powerful and has a very flexible extension system... but that's a double edged sword because it lets the devs easily ignore features with the excuse that they should be done with a 3rd party extension.

EDIT - child comment is right, the following paragraph is not true! I was writing from my phone and remembered installing this extension [0] but now that I've checked it is for counting offsets from the beginning of the file, not lines and columns. Which I'd concede is not so much of a basic functionality expected in any editor.

[0]: https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=ramyarao...

  And I mean *really* basic stuff... like a status bar label 
  that shows the line and column numbers where the cursor
  is! Yes, you already need an extension just for that.
Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by jaredmosley on Sunday April 11, 2021 @12:10PM (#26771351)
I mean, that's just not true. The basic VS Code install will tell you the line and column numbers in the status bar without any plugins.

Usually, the only plugins I need to install is the language server plugin for whatever language I'm using. At least, that works for Go and Python while Node and JS/TS work right out of the box.

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by j1elo on Sunday April 11, 2021 @12:24PM (#26771461)
You're right. I've since arrived home and could check my VSCode, which led me to edit my comment above.
Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by vehemenz on Sunday April 11, 2021 @10:15AM (#26770510)
I meant to get VSCode to work as a decent development environment, more generally.
Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by hasmolo on Sunday April 11, 2021 @11:16AM (#26770865)
would you expand on this? i'm curious what i've been missing, and what possibilities there are!

for me, a TS using node nerd, vs code does these things well:

  1. ts language server
  2. decent plugins (that i can commit to scm)
  3. yarn 2 support 
  4. nice debugger interaction
is there more for me to have? is the core difference i use so much m$ stuff?
Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by vehemenz on Sunday April 11, 2021 @12:49PM (#26771684)
There are too many to list. I'd recommend using a JetBrains IDE to see what it has.

Off the top of my head, VSCode lacks a decent code formatter and a "search everywhere"-type command palette. And the Git and database support is not good either, but that's kind of a given.

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by aryik on Sunday April 11, 2021 @01:31PM (#26771964)
I love the gitlens extension personally - I find it to be a big productivity boost when navigating a complex/legacy codebase.
Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by dijit on Sunday April 11, 2021 @08:05AM (#26769711)
Ugh, I don't want to descend into "that thread" again, but Wifi/Screen have not been an issue on linux (as long as you don't use nvidia) in over 10 years.

Mixed scale DPI screens are not a problem if you use Wayland, which is basically the default now.

Font rendering though? YMMV.

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by eknkc on Sunday April 11, 2021 @08:45AM (#26769964)
Nope, you people are living in a fairy tale. I’d love to have a decent linux desktop installation. I spent hours yesterday and gave up.

I have a laptop running Ubuntu and connected to my 4k monitor in front of me. Has an Intel gpu. I do not even want to use multiple displays, I’m gonna go with the external only.

Wayland can do fractional scaling but then VsCode, Firefox, Discord and whatever apps I tried became blurry shit. Firefox has an environment variable to fix it. VsCode has an experimental build and command line flags. I have no idea about Discord. I don’t care if its the app developers fault. It is just plain bad.

X11 can do fractional scaling but fonts are a little blurry for some reason and I have the worst screen tearing I’ve ever seen in my life. It is unusable.

macOS and Windows do this perfectly. It is not something you think about. Windows has some weird looking apps here and there but the shittyneas is not even close.

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by dijit on Sunday April 11, 2021 @10:07AM (#26770465)
I don't know what to tell you, maybe I won the lottery on hardware. (though, admittedly I buy computers with linux support in mind). Everything works completely flawlessly for me (even nice font rendering, though idk if I did something manual for that).

For context, I have (currently) a precision 5520 laptop;

I run arch with sway, I have a big USB-C 4k at work and 2*16:10 FHD Dell USB-C monitors at home.

The only issues I have with linux is that I don't have Microsoft Office, and Zoom+Wayland is buggy as hell.

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by vetinari on Sunday April 11, 2021 @11:17AM (#26770870)
> Wayland can do fractional scaling but then VsCode, Firefox, Discord and whatever apps I tried became blurry shit.

X11 apps do that. Firefox can run in Wayland mode, so run it in Wayland mode. vscode and other electron apps do not support wayland yet, so until they do (yes, they are taking their sweet time), you either need to run with integer scaling, or tolerate them being blurry.

In Windows, the shittyness is much worse. Basically any Qt app is unusable with hidpi in Windows.

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by Kwpolska on Sunday April 11, 2021 @11:51AM (#26771181)
> In Windows, the shittyness is much worse. Basically any Qt app is unusable with hidpi in Windows.

In my experience, it isn’t. On my setup (200% + 100% screens, Retina MacBook Pro in Boot Camp) KeePassXC, qBitTorrent, Qt Designer all look great on both screens; VLC has slightly weird fonts on the HiDPI screen but still works fine.

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by vetinari on Sunday April 11, 2021 @12:09PM (#26771344)
Native Windows 10 on a threadripper machine; display at 175%. QGIS, FME completely unusable.
Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by devit on Sunday April 11, 2021 @10:12AM (#26770494)
Don't use fractional scaling.

Use the closest integer scaling and adjust default font sizes (and if needed other sizes like window title height or panel height).

It's also best if you just don't buy monitors that have dpis that are not close to integer multiples of 96.

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by eknkc on Sunday April 11, 2021 @10:27AM (#26770568)
Yeah I tried this but I used 1x ui scaling + 1.5x font scaling. It works but then all the buttons and stuff are tiny.

Maybe I should try 2x gui scaling and 0.75 font size? Never occured to me that I could go below 1 on the scales, it might work.

edit: 2x on wayland is still blurry. 1x + 2x font works but as I said, tiny buttons and stuff.

Still, my point is; why the fuck am I dealing with this?

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by whatever1 on Sunday April 11, 2021 @04:36PM (#26773173)
Because it’s free and nobody is willing to put the effort (and pay the cost) to make a pleasing UX for desktop users.

In mobile where there is market, Google did it.

I stopped trying a couple of years ago (after I got a 4K monitor) to convince myself that desktop Linux is workable.

Linux for desktop = console

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by mixmastamyk on Sunday April 11, 2021 @04:41PM (#26773215)
Ubuntu Mate just works, been using with two 4k monitors for over five years.
Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by derriz on Sunday April 11, 2021 @09:40AM (#26770302)
Not according to my experience with a top-spec Dell XPS "developer edition" with Ubuntu pre-installed about 2 years ago. Not only did I have intermittant Wifi connection drops but I was never able to get multi-monitor mixed DPI to work at all with or without Wayland. Even closing the lid/entering sleep mode was broken - the battery would continue to be drained (at about half the rate of non-sleep mode but still unusable).
Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by chestervonwinch on Sunday April 11, 2021 @03:42PM (#26772845)
Was the sleep issue not resolved by a BIOS update?

Tangentially, I want to mention that the archlinux wiki is a terrific catalog of machines and their known quirks (and sometimes, fixes for the quirks!).

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by acdibble on Sunday April 11, 2021 @08:17AM (#26769796)
If you use fractional scaling on Wayland, Chromium-based applications will render blurry. Obviously it's a Chromium issue but it's been around for a while and is a bad experience.
Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by rathboma on Sunday April 11, 2021 @09:34AM (#26770252)
This just got patched, so electron apps are slowly able to update and fix this. VSCode has a beta version with the fix already
Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by josephg on Sunday April 11, 2021 @08:42AM (#26769949)
Linux generally works great. I'm typing this on a linux mint, using mixed scale DPI screens and generally it all works pretty well. I think all my hardware is fully supported - I haven't had to mess with drivers at all. ... Well, not recently. There were some zen3 bugs in the stable kernel releases a few months ago, but it all works fine now.

And thats sort of the theme everywhere. Its super fast and I love it, and its mostly stable and mostly great. But tiny bugs shine through all over. I've been totally spoiled by Apple's spit and polish.

For example, I get random graphics bugs after waking from sleep sometimes. Sometimes my mouse cursor is either invisible or for some reason duplicated, so I see a second stationary cursor hovering over my windows. And for some reason my second display doesn't vsync, so I get obvious tearing when I scroll or move windows around.

I use a trackpad, and smooth scrolling works properly in most apps. But Firefox needs an obscure XInput environment variable to make it work. (That trick is only mentioned deep some a bug tracker). Smooth scrolling doesn't work at all in IntelliJ. Intellij also doesn't let me use the Meta key (Cmd / Start) as a shortcut modifier - so my muscle memory for navigation is all messed up and I can't rebind keys to fix it. I hate how Ctrl+C is copy everywhere except the terminal, which needs me to Ctrl+Shift+C instead. Etc etc. Forever.

Its unbelievably responsive compared to my 2016 MBP though. If you haven't upgraded in awhile and you can afford it, its a fantastic time to get a new system. But linux on the desktop still isn't entirely pain free. Way better than it was a few years ago though.

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by pta2002 on Sunday April 11, 2021 @09:13AM (#26770126)
Do you know what that firefox variable is? It's the only reason I'm not using firefox right now.
Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by callahad on Sunday April 11, 2021 @10:30AM (#26770593)
Probably MOZ_USE_XINPUT2=1 (note the '2' at the end)

...or use Wayland where smooth scrolling should work by default

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by seabrookmx on Sunday April 11, 2021 @12:50PM (#26771692)
> Wayland, which is basically the default now

In Fedora maybe. Not in most distros. And recall many apps have to run under xwayland for compatibility so all of those apps won't support scaling properly.

It's still not there yet.

Battery life also takes a huge hit on the Dell XPS and HP Elitebooks I've tried, even after trying to apply some tweaks (not that I should need to). For this reason I use Windows+WSL on laptops even though I'd prefer Ubuntu.

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by barrucadu on Sunday April 11, 2021 @11:32AM (#26770982)
Wayland is "basically the default now"? Since when?
Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by JimDabell on Sunday April 11, 2021 @07:22AM (#26769485)
> the last time I worked through a linux VM on my mac laptop, everything got much slower. Our nodejs service took 2-3x longer to start up or to build. I think the issue was filesystem overhead for some reason.

Docker on Mac has a lot of IO overhead. This is mentioned in the article:

> The way I made it work is by having a full “dev environment” running virtually. That means that I check out repositories on the virtual disk and run everything from there. This has the slight inconvenience that I can’t easily access those files with Finder, but the upside is that there is no noticeable IO latency issues like when running Docker for Mac.

If you just want improved performance with bind mounts instead, you can use :cached or :delegated flags.

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by wdb on Sunday April 11, 2021 @08:56AM (#26770019)
I have been wondering if using VMWare Fusion docker compatible solution that even comes with their free version of Fusion has better IO/disk performance when running containers https://blogs.vmware.com/teamfusion/2020/05/fusion-11-5-now-...

I think Fusion comes with a driver for Docker

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by bdcravens on Sunday April 11, 2021 @10:12AM (#26770496)
Since the earliest days of Docker for Mac, I've found docker-sync to be very effective. (I've haven't done much follow-up over time to see if using those flags matches performance) To gain more speed, add folders you really don't care about to docker-sync's ignored folders, especially if they are high churn.
Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by danieldk on Sunday April 11, 2021 @07:02AM (#26769398)
Fedora Toolbox is quite interesting from this perspective. It does not provide a proper security boundary, since it shares the home directory, but it is really nice to make ad-hoc development environments. Since it is built on podman/buildah, it does not require the Docker daemon and can be used by regular users.
Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by the8472 on Sunday April 11, 2021 @07:59AM (#26769676)
Did you use a native filesystem inside the VM or a host filesystem remoted into the VM?
Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by lovelyviking on Sunday April 11, 2021 @08:27AM (#26769861)
>I need every iota of speed my computer has for my rust compiler

If so, why do you need rust compiler in the first place? May be you don't? May be it's wrong compiler?

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by fpoling on Sunday April 11, 2021 @07:12AM (#26769441)
A properly secured unprivileged Linux container is not particularly worse than VM from a security point of view, but its impact on performance is very minimal. The drawback is that one cannot use Mac or Windows as a host, but as long as one is OK with running Linux on machine and accessing, say, Windows occasionally via VM, this is a very nice setup.
Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by ccouzens on Sunday April 11, 2021 @07:28AM (#26769525)
My first attempt at this configuration was using a podman container (my laptop runs Fedora).

It worked well, except that I occasionally want to run a container within my dev-environment. Running a container inside a container is possible, but not easy.

I settled on running a Vagrant Libvirt VM. I do not know what the performance impact is- but I have not noticed either my laptop or the VM being slow.

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by j1elo on Sunday April 11, 2021 @11:45AM (#26771117)
I'm just now learning about the container technologies that are alternatives to Docker. More precisely, LXC, in case you had it in mind in your comment.

Do you know of a set of settings or tips to follow for making containers as safe as a VM?

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by fpoling on Monday April 12, 2021 @07:13AM (#26778090)
I use systemd-nspawn containers with max security options, like user namespaces, syscall filters, no-new-priveleges. Even with the user namespaces I do not run as a root in the user namespaces unless I need to install extra software inside the container.
Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by the_duke on Sunday April 11, 2021 @07:56AM (#26769664)
The need for VMs or containers for security (on end user machines) is the fallout of insufficient OS security mechanisms.

A better solution would be a desktop OS with proper application sandboxing. Mac OS is taking many steps in that direction.

Linux - as usual - has a multitude of solutions, all of them problematic. (AppArmor, SeLinux, Firejail, Snap, Flatpak)

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by millerm on Sunday April 11, 2021 @08:39AM (#26769938)
I believe the real problem is that devs install random binaries, or modules, without any real concern for what malicious activities, even if unintentional, these artifacts may perform. Forget the fact that it’s on the dev’s machine, they move this stuff into production without proper security vetting.

Many devs just blindly install things from npm, copy random snippets from GitHub gists, execute remote shell scripts via curl that they just copy and paste into the terminal because they read it in some blog post, and on and on.

Anyway, just my worthless < 2 cents.

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by wongarsu on Sunday April 11, 2021 @08:49AM (#26769983)
Microsoft tried to push for a better model in the Windows Store apps. But the world reacted with apathy. Now they seem to try to leverage their built-in hypervisor instead, for example with Sandbox [1] for temporary VMs with minimal overhead.

1: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/threat-pro...

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by m463 on Sunday April 11, 2021 @03:12PM (#26772646)
I believe VMs are not just for security - it might be the only way to run completely different operating systems (like macos on linux, or linux on windows, etc)

Additionally, VMs might be a great help to complicated debugging. You can crash a VM without taking down your desktop. I'm not sure about things like kernel debugging, but it might be easier in a VM.

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by rowanG077 on Sunday April 11, 2021 @07:32AM (#26769547)
Actually I think VMs for dev are evil. I hope it's a stop gap measure until tooling like nix catches up enough. Running an entire seperate OS just for development is completely bonkers to me.
Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by mcny on Sunday April 11, 2021 @07:41AM (#26769591)
If you think that's bonkers, I'll give you an even worse idea: a dedicated desktop machine. I have a dell optiplex running Intel i3-2100 with 8GB RAM and 1TB Samsung 860 Evo SSD. No display. Fedora runs like a dream with dnf automatic. Use cockpit if you'd like.

You can use your windows or Mac laptop with visual studio code to do web development. ng serve works as if you ran it from your laptop.

The biggest drawback I can think of is if you ever needed to leave the house. Thankfully, I have no life so I don't have this problem.

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by Tsiklon on Sunday April 11, 2021 @08:03AM (#26769695)
Having both your laptop and desktop on a WireGuard vpn with the gateway on your choice of cloud host would solve that problem, also it would solve having to deal with wandering IP addresses as you may find with a home internet connection
Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by cassianoleal on Sunday April 11, 2021 @08:01AM (#26769690)
> The biggest drawback I can think of is if you ever needed to leave the house.

Add ZeroTier to the equation and as long as you have Internet connection when you're outside the house you'll probably not even notice it.

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by rovr138 on Sunday April 11, 2021 @09:33AM (#26770242)
I see WireGuard and ZeroTier mentioned.

I just use ssh. SSH to a VPS and map 22 to a port on the VPS.

I have a really small VPS for this.

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by mcny on Sunday April 11, 2021 @09:46AM (#26770345)
I think the reason they mentioned more complicated setups is because I'm using an actual old machine at home and unless you know what you're doing you don't want to expose it to the world.

I think poking a hole on port 22 is mostly ok if you only allow key authentication and no password authentication but I don't know enough to give advice on security.

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by rovr138 on Sunday April 11, 2021 @02:43PM (#26772461)
Just posting alternatives.

I use a VPS with SSH. I have to ssh in, then I can ssh into the machine at home.

For safety, key authentication and fail2ban would cover a lot. I mainly have the 1 port.

If I need to expose another SSH port to the internet, I can do it, but yes, it would need extra protection since logs are coming from the machine ssh'ing in.

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by hiq on Sunday April 11, 2021 @04:34PM (#26773156)
> For safety, key authentication and fail2ban would cover a lot. I mainly have the 1 port.

Changing the port from the default 22 to something else is also recommended, if only because it makes fail2ban logs way less verbose.

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by linspace on Sunday April 11, 2021 @08:50AM (#26769987)
Running desktop applications inside a web browser is bonkers too. And the cloud. It's better to embrace the madness. I recommend watching Dr Strangelove.
Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by FpUser on Sunday April 11, 2021 @09:00AM (#26770045)
I have it an easy way I think. My development for Linux except some RPi projects is strictly limited to some high performance business servers. I use C++ with a couple of multiplatform libraries for such development. So I simply develop and do main testing on Windows using Microsoft Visual Studio C++. The big one, not VS code. When the time comes for release I just check out project on Linux, run build and tests and that is it. I do have Linux VM on my development computer (VMware, full Linux OS with the GUI and dev environments) in case Linux tests fail due to some compiler differences / whatever. During last 3 years I had to use like it twice for that purpose. I mostly use Vm's to test my server setup from scratch scripts.
Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by bpye on Monday April 12, 2021 @12:46AM (#26776148)
Nix has been something I’ve played with for a while, but increasingly I’ve been using it. I would love to see Nix working on Windows - there was a project to make that happen but I don’t know what the current status is.
Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by ccouzens on Sunday April 11, 2021 @08:00AM (#26769686)
I don't know much about nix.

Does it solve the security problem by preventing access to the majority of your home directory?

Or solve it by only allowing you to install vetted libraries?

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by rowanG077 on Sunday April 11, 2021 @08:09AM (#26769733)
You cannot access the home directory at all during a nix build.
Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by mixmastamyk on Sunday April 11, 2021 @04:50PM (#26773295)
Interesting, what about when your software runs? Is it still in a chroot or similar?
Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by rowanG077 on Sunday April 11, 2021 @06:41PM (#26774169)
It's not running in a sandbox. That's not the goal of nix. It's only a package manager/build system.
Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by mixmastamyk on Sunday April 11, 2021 @09:48PM (#26775383)
Oh, then why can it not access the home folder?
Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by rowanG077 on Monday April 12, 2021 @03:43AM (#26776885)
The build process is sandboxed. Not the environment you run the application in afterwards.
Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by mpweiher on Sunday April 11, 2021 @07:35AM (#26769565)
I'd phrase it this way: it is completely bonkers that this isn't bonkers.
Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by hiq on Sunday April 11, 2021 @04:27PM (#26773104)
I started doing exactly that.

I've been reluctant to contribute to nodejs (e.g. electron) projects for some time, because I just don't want to run npm on a computer with any kind of remotely private data.

Lately there were just too many itches to scratch, so I went for a VM replicating my normal setup (dotfiles etc.), and I just use x2go, locally. Quick and dirty setup which is good enough when used infrequently.

My ideal setup would probably be closer to https://blog.jessfraz.com/post/docker-containers-on-the-desk..., but it's more setup than I could be bothered with at the time. Maybe one day.

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by m463 on Sunday April 11, 2021 @03:08PM (#26772613)
I was going to say container or vm, but maybe ...

Are containers a hack that will go away as VMs become lightweight or will containers replace VMs?

I run proxmox, and when I first set things up I used VMs, but over time I moved most server kinds of things to containers.

EDIT: docker is a special thing - creating an entire environment from one Dockerfile is pretty powerful.

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by mikewhy on Sunday April 11, 2021 @03:33PM (#26772794)
I've been playing with this stuff on and off for the past few weekends, getting an environment set up on my M1 air.

I ended up going with a VM, as it still allows (IIRC) the thin client to be thinner. There's definitely bits of containers I miss, like I'm back to keeping notes in a markdown file for commands that would be added to a Dockerfile, but I'm also not having to do weird things to get something like my shell history to persist.

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by nickjj on Sunday April 11, 2021 @07:01AM (#26769391)
> I think running your dev environment in a VM is the future on all platforms.

We probably have a long ways to go before we get there and it does come with its own sets of challenges and usability quirks even if the technical implementation is good.

For example, 8 years ago I used to run Windows 7 with xubuntu running in a graphical vmware VM using Unity mode[0]. Basically a way to seamlessly run graphical Linux apps in Windows. Each GUI app you launched from the Linux VM would have its own floating window that you could move around like any other Windows window. As an aside, this feature has been removed from vmware for years now when it comes to Linux guests.

It worked well enough for then, and I spent 99% of my time in that VM (browser, code editor, everything) and I only used Windows for recording / editing videos and playing games to avoid having to dual boot.

But even with vmware's really good disk performance there were performance issues at times, you're also splitting your memory up between your main system and your VM, it's not that efficient. Then there's little quirks like your main OS not really fully being able to integrate with files and apps from the VM, so you have to do hacky things to get apps to launch from a taskbar, search doesn't work because your stuff is in a VM, etc.. Plus you always feel like you're split between 2 worlds, the main OS and the VM. It doesn't feel really nice and cohesive.

To a lesser extent nowadays we have WSL 2 on Windows which is what I use. It solves a lot of the VM problems from above and running an X-server lets you run graphical apps very well, but you still feel like you're running 2 operating systems and the user experience suffers because you don't feel like you're running 1 streamlined OS.

A prime example is having to put all of your files in WSL 2's file system to get good performance but having certain types of files there is an inconvenience or you may not want to do it because it doesn't make sense to put 100GB of storage files on your SSD. That happened to me because I have a podcast site which is mostly code, except for a ton of raw wav file recordings + mp3s. Instead of just having a git ignored directory in my project, I had to create a 2nd directory outside of WSL to store these files. There's many other examples like this too.

I don't know what the Mac story is like, but I would imagine at minimum you're dealing with files being split into 2 worlds and will experience the unfriendly split OS feeling overall. Does Parallels let you seamlessly run floating windows across your VM and macOS?

[0]: Here's a really old video of that set up https://nickjanetakis.com/blog/create-an-awesome-linux-devel...

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by ccouzens on Sunday April 11, 2021 @07:48AM (#26769621)
It's a shame it didn't work out for you.

> we have WSL 2 on Windows which is what I use

My new work laptop runs Windows, so I'm interested in WSL2. I gather that it has good integration with Windows (eg you can type notepad and notepad will open)- which is convenient but removes any security boundary.

> Does Parallels let you seamlessly run floating windows across your VM and macOS?

I don't use Parallels, or Mac. But I believe so- they call it Coherence https://kb.parallels.com/4670

I agree that not everything is as convenient. My papercuts were not being able to type `code .` to make a new VSCode window. And not being able to use the new tab shortcut in my terminal to make a new tab in the current directory.

I've made a little project to solve both those issues for me https://github.com/ccouzens/ssh-nicety It works, but is fairly bespoke to my setup. It uses Unix Domain sockets (which probably excludes Windows). The only new terminal it can launch atm is gnome-terminal.

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by nickjj on Sunday April 11, 2021 @08:25AM (#26769846)
I still do use WSL 2 btw. It's pretty good for general development. It's just not ideal due to the split file system concerns.

If you decide to use it, I have another more up to date video with my whole WSL 2 / Docker / all the tools I use / etc. set up at: https://nickjanetakis.com/blog/a-linux-dev-environment-on-wi...

Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by StreamBright on Sunday April 11, 2021 @08:27AM (#26769864)
I agree. We need something like Firecracker and quick boot times and something like Bottlerocket (immutable os) as the host. That woukd help my workflows very much.
Re:M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box by ttiurani on Sunday April 11, 2021 @06:57AM (#26769374)
Personally pushing the edit, compile, run cycle time as low as possible has always been the reason I have stayed away from dev VMs. For 99% of computer uses a VM is fast enough but unfortunately for many programming tasks, it is not.