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Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by coldtea on Monday April 05, 2021 @04:55AM (#26696741)
As a European, this article is the degree of pretentious, market-driven, and shallow, that fits perfectly with the Economist.

"Streaming subtitled box sets" are not "the new Eurovision", and Eurovision itself meant and means squat when it comes to "common European culture". (If anything Eurovision is something most of us watch for laughs, and more often than not we take sides and vote for countries we already knew and liked for other cultural and historical reasons).

We have had and have a quite good understanding of other European states and their cultures, even more so when they share the same borders (as it's often the case in Europe - to have 2, 3 or more countries sharing your borders and have millenia of interaction with them and their culture, plus "shared" areas of mixed culture, e.g. Strasbourg).

It's not the lack of Netflix's European programming or watching each other's shows that prevented a "common European culture".

Not to mention, we have had something like that, both in the high-brow sphere (for centuries), but also in the pop-culture.

E.g. non-artsy Italian and French cinema from Alain Delon to Bud Spenser was big all-over Europe until the 80s when Hollywood dominated with emphasis on impossible to meet big productions and vfx. European pop music frequently travelled all over Europe, from Al Bano to Roussos and from Nina Hagen to Kraftwerk. Comics too, French, English, Italian, Belgian, Spanish (to namedrop some that were published and loved all over Europe: Asterix, Tin Tin, Mortadelo y Filemon, Lucky Luke, Blek, Judge Dredd, the Smurfs, Manara, Corto Maltese, and so on).

And as somebody mentioned, Interrail and Erasmus have been going strong for 3 to 4 decades now or more... (I've done the first, and have had many friends doing both the first and the second.).

Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by Veen on Monday April 05, 2021 @05:31AM (#26696953)
I stream a lot of French and other European shows, and it's primarily because I'm bored with American and (especially) BBC TV. But, as you say, it's nothing new. I've read translated French and German literature all my life. I've long enjoyed French, Polish, and Hungarian cinema. So have most of the people I know (including those who were pro-Brexit).

I enjoy it precisely because, although Europe shares a fair bit of culture, these works are not the product of a homogenized Mid-Atlantic or "common European" culture, but an expression of the particular culture, xplace, and time in which they was made.

Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by bobthechef on Monday April 05, 2021 @12:09PM (#26700785)
Yeah, these sorts of "arguments" are typical of either those who wish for Europe to have a common culture (like EU federalist extremists) or people who don't have a genuine common culture like Americans, but think they do. Both fail to grasp the reality of culture and end up trivializing it to great detriment for everyone (the Soviets tried the same and it all came crashing down as Soviet Man led to the return of the repressed ethnic identities of the Russian Empire). The former trivialize it, thinking they can magically manufacture some kind of common identity (What the heck is "European" identity? Common cultural features or foundations, much less the suppression of diversity, do not suffice to magically produce an ethnic or cultural identity). I suspect EU federalists think they can replicate the kind of rootless Americanism that was produced by identity theft and makes people vulnerable to manipulation (the dissolution of European ethnic neighborhoods was largely the product of social engineering that attempted to assimilate these people into a manufactured, imposed, and ultimately vacuous "white" identity and you can see this because most European immigrants weren't white until much later in American history. I mean, what the heck is "white" identity? It's ultimately meaningless and allows those in power to fill it with any content they like, like "person who drinks Coke, watches Hollywood movies, and buys tons of crap he doesn't need, oh, and accepts abuse from a usurious oligarchy that uses debt and compound interest as an instrument of power and enrichment"). This is part of the reason why Americans are so confused about such things because they have no real culture. Why would you want to inflict something like that on Europe? Besides, ethnic difference is interesting and need not be a source of hatred or conflict. You need some way to simultaneously keep your ethnicity and transcend it. Every attempt to go to the extremes, to exaggerate ethnicity or so suppress it, always lead to disaster.

All of this is not to say that TV cannot be used as a powerful tool for social engineering. It can and it is. Television and Hollywood have, in concert with the education system, caused enormous changes in society. It's just harder to accomplish without first demoralizing and robbing someone of his identity first. Solve et coagula.

Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by Nasrudith on Monday April 05, 2021 @02:08PM (#26702406)
Not having a common culture is because the goal mounted on greased maglevs - anything common is declared "cultureless".

The "rootless" line by the way is itself an absurd dogwhistle of antisemites amounting to "They are not trustworthy because we repeatedly robbed and kicked them out - ergo they must have deserved it!" Along with all of the feudalist anti-merchant and anti-banking cliches to assure literal serfs that military dictators. While whitewashing all of the considerable hatred and conflict. You unironically repeat ancient self-serving lies of long dead strongmen and yet you think we're the ones confused and manipulated?

Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by pera on Monday April 05, 2021 @05:56AM (#26697091)
> As a European, this article is the degree of pretentious, market-driven, and stupid, that fits perfectly with the Economist.

Almost every time I read an article from The Economist I see that many of their arguments are founded on false premises which are (usually) trivial to fact-check. I really don't get why this publication gets posted here on HN so often.

Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by jimnotgym on Monday April 05, 2021 @06:38AM (#26697308)
The Economist has a variety of types of article. It has a World news round up. It has short opinion pieces (like the ones that get shared here) and longer form in depth analysis sections. It finishes with Arts and culture science and obituaries.

I have only ever seen the short (1/2 to 1 page in the printed version) opinion pieces shared here. I think most publications could be judged unfairly by reading the only those parts. Usually the magazine is themed on one subject for the week and publishes a range of angles on the same thing. Again sharing one part of it rather destroys the beauty of it. I think that is why I can't get on with the digital editions.

I was a subscriber to the paper edition, but it is supposed to arrive Saturday morning in the mail, but often didn't. I found thay if it arrived on Monday I was only finding time to flick through it.

Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by willyt on Monday April 05, 2021 @07:25AM (#26697638)
This happens with other papers as well. It's always the opinion pieces that get shared because they press people's buttons. Then everyone piles on with 'Oh this isn't journalism' obviously! of course it's not, it's usually not written by a journalist and it's not meant to be journalism. I can understand how people that didn't grow up with the print editions can get confused though as I've noticed that Apple News puts lots of opinion pieces in my 'news' feed and because of the diversity of sources it's not always easy to tell as there are no strong visual clues and each outlet's conventions for opinion pieces are different and I think they call them something different in America, I forget the word, (editorial?).
Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by mycologos on Monday April 05, 2021 @11:46AM (#26700508)
I'm curious, can you cite some examples? In my experience The Economist has a definite bias toward "market reforms" (which some people might instead describe as "gutting the state" or something), but "trivially false" seems a lot more extreme.
Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by blululu on Monday April 05, 2021 @12:05PM (#26700721)
I realize that this ask is standard on HN but it’s a bit of a pain to comb through a publication to produce the imputed litany of minor inaccuracies. I share the OP’s sentiment that the economist is a lousy source for opinions (it is however great for total coverage of world events, but you take this with an ideological spin that free trade and deregulation will make everything good). In general the economist is written as a series of anonymous op-eds. Articles will bring up specious comparisons ‘the amount of natural gas reserves in Bolivia is greater than the oil sands of Alberta’ and use these to support opinions that are unrelated. They will make bold forecasts from scanty data ‘more subsidies for domestic industry will reduce GDP growth’, ‘restricting access to Qualcomm chips will cripple Chinese Mobile Manufacturers’ and never validate their success rate. In general it requires a lot of critical reading to not get sucked into believing that they know what they’re talking about.
Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by astrange on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @06:12PM (#26732101)
> They will make bold forecasts from scanty data ‘more subsidies for domestic industry will reduce GDP growth’, ‘restricting access to Qualcomm chips will cripple Chinese Mobile Manufacturers’ and never validate their success rate. In general it requires a lot of critical reading to not get sucked into believing that they know what they’re talking about.

The Economist actually interestingly runs a forecasting competition that does just that. I expect you have to pay more for those intelligence reports.

https://www.gjopen.com/challenges

Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by libraryatnight on Monday April 05, 2021 @12:56PM (#26701505)
They won't be able to supply any examples beyond the opinion pieces, which are like most opinion pieces in all publications: click bait OPINIONS. The Economist does a decent job of reporting when reporting.
Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by varispeed on Monday April 05, 2021 @06:26AM (#26697239)
The seem to be publishing what most people want to hear and as such it is pleasing to many people, regardless whether it is true or not. They just want to feel good for a moment and escape the reality.
Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by systemvoltage on Monday April 05, 2021 @01:18PM (#26701771)
I've been reading the Economist for more than 15 years. I couldn't disagree with you more. This publication gets posted here so often because it is excellent IMO. It has a great balance of humor and rigor, they have great insights based on data, common trends, public opinion, government stance, etc. Weekly, I read a hard copy of it usually on Sunday mornings. Perhaps, I am biased of off habit.

They admit their mistakes openly: https://medium.economist.com/mistakes-weve-drawn-a-few-8cdd8...

Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by mbrodersen on Monday April 05, 2021 @10:09PM (#26707218)
All that shows is that your values/political views/understanding of the world align with The Economist. It doesn’t say anything about whether that world view is true or not. I am not making any claims as to the rightness/wrongness of The Economist. Just pointing out that what you are experiencing is not an objective evaluation.
Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by hencq on Monday April 05, 2021 @01:52PM (#26702186)
I completely agree with you. I've been a subscriber for over 12 years, so maybe similarly biased. A good test case for me is whenever there's an article about something I have in-depth knowledge about it's rare to find grievous errors. A reverse Gell-Mann amnesia if you will.

The articles that are posted here are usually from the Leaders section, which are in effect opinion pieces. For every Leader article there's also a more in-depth article. If your only experience with the Economist is through their Leaders I can see how you would come away with the idea that all their articles are biased and lack detail.

Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by ketzo on Monday April 05, 2021 @11:40AM (#26700454)
From my limited experience, their finance writing (as the publication's name might suggest) is actually pretty good; I appreciate the skill it takes to write about financial markets in a way that's understandable to someone with very little financial knowledge.

Almost every other thing I've read from them is 1) total horseshit or, worse, 2) deeply right-wing conservative propaganda veiled behind a thin veneer of "we have a study that we cite!"

Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by schnevets on Monday April 05, 2021 @12:11PM (#26700802)
Yeah, when I had a commute I would devour Economist magazine, and I still consider it an even-keeled international news source for English-speaking readers. I can tell it has a neoliberal, "we have everything under control" underpinning, but I'm curious what people suggest as an alternative.

That said, their culture section can be sloppy. After noticing numerous errors in topics I care about and being disappointed in multiple book recommendations, I think I'd sooner try a cooking recipe from PC Gamer than accept their entertainment opinions at face value.

Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by sprash on Monday April 05, 2021 @02:30PM (#26702729)
The Economist is nothing but a mouthpiece for propaganda pushed by IMF, Brookings (a.k.a Rockefeller), Rothschilds, Goldman Sachs and further globalist swamp organizations.

They get posted here as often as any other shoddy trash. But their crap seems to "stick" more at the frontpage than the others (probably because of better writing skills).

Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by paganel on Monday April 05, 2021 @07:08AM (#26697533)
Spot on. I think that nowadays Champions League football (and European football in general) has done more to create a common European identity/culture than all the top-down measures implemented by various institutions, you can have a Romanian and a Swede both saying they’re a Madridista or a Scouse while having no other interest in the Spanish and British cultures.

Re: Italian music, I still have a couple of Ornella Vanoni and Mina CDs in my car, it’s the only thing that I listen while on road-trips (am Romanian).

Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by coldtea on Monday April 05, 2021 @08:07AM (#26697934)
Huh, football of course. I only forgot it because I'm not a big fan, but as far as "common European thing / knowledge of each other countries aspects" comes, it has historically been huge!
Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by andrepd on Monday April 05, 2021 @08:23PM (#26706487)
Another benefit of football is that in channels all that aggressiveness and fanatic nationalisms into a harmless sport.
Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by the_af on Monday April 05, 2021 @12:57PM (#26701519)
> to namedrop some that were published and loved all over Europe: Asterix, Tin Tin, Mortadelo y Filemon, Lucky Luke, Blek, Judge Dredd, the Smurfs, Manara, Corto Maltese, and so on

Many of these were loved in Latin America as well. Lucky Luke and Asterix are my personal favorites, though there's a special place for Corto Maltese (Hugo Pratt is revered in my country) and I also liked Manara for erotic comics.

To this day I consider European comics way superior to American comics, where superheroes tended to dominate. Yes, I do love Sandman and Robert Crumb, of course.

Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by runarberg on Monday April 05, 2021 @01:17PM (#26701758)
A Donald Duck fan here: It is funny to mention that Donald Duck is way more popular in Europe then in his place of origin in North America. Several European publishers had (have?) authors on staff and share stories with other European publishers. Se we got (get?) stories that the Americans don’t get. Also in the nineties the translation in my home country was exceptionally good.

When I talk about Donald Duck with Americans they don’t get it, but when I talk with other Europeans there is a long and fun conversation ahead.

I always think it is cute when a work of art travels from the place of origin and shines in a different part of the world in this way.

Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by berkes on Monday April 05, 2021 @03:35PM (#26703567)
I try to pick up a Donald Duck weekly in every country that I visit. It is fun to see how different Kalle Anke is from e.g. the Dutch Donald Duck.
Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by kergonath on Monday April 05, 2021 @02:57PM (#26703084)
Depends on which Donald Duck comics, to be fair. A whole bunch of them are utter garbage, not everyone is Don Rosa.
Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by Gwypaas on Monday April 05, 2021 @05:27AM (#26696925)
Yes, for example the grand tour which many young upper class people went on in the 17th and 18th century. With the explicit goal to expose themselves to as much culture and other elite people around the continent as possible.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Tour

Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by pjc50 on Monday April 05, 2021 @05:34AM (#26696973)
Far more recently than that, Interrail and the Erasmus scheme.

The UK withdrew from the Erasmus scheme as part of Brexit seemingly for no other reason than to discourage cultural integration.

Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by JetSetWilly on Monday April 05, 2021 @07:29AM (#26697666)
> The UK withdrew from the Erasmus scheme as part of Brexit seemingly for no other reason than to discourage cultural integration.

I think it was because of two reasons. First, the sort of people who go on Erasmus and Interrail tend to be the sort of people who could have afforded it anyway - it is a subsidy for the well to do.

And secondly, far fewer people go from the UK to other countries, than come from other countries to come here, so it is a financial drain.

You could argue that it was a good idea for soft power reasons for the UK to do, but it doesn't seem to have built up a lot of European good will so far and perhaps the government has reasoned that the money is better spent elsewhere.

Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by spzb on Monday April 05, 2021 @11:29AM (#26700330)
> so it is a financial drain.

Only if you subscribe to the zero sum idea that there is a fixed pot of money which must be shared out between competing claims on it. Unfortunately our current and recent governments have propagated that notion for their own gain.

It neglects the fact that foreign students in the UK spend money in the UK economy thereby propping up jobs and economic activity. When my daughter did a year studying abroad in Germany the funding she got was nowhere near enough to cover her rent and other costs. So something like 10 grand of British money ended up getting spent in the German economy to keep her going.

Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by watwut on Monday April 05, 2021 @12:02PM (#26700680)
> First, the sort of people who go on Erasmus and Interrail tend to be the sort of people who could have afforded it anyway

Absolutely not in my experience. They don't tend to be super poor, they are college demographics. But among social classes that do go to college, it actually enables people who could not pay for it. These programs are a way how students for whome it would be expensive go abroad for few months.

Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by krona on Monday April 05, 2021 @05:44AM (#26697030)
The Turing scheme will probably be more attractive to UK students because it will likely include more countries that UK students are actually interested in experiencing.
Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by rover0 on Monday April 05, 2021 @06:18AM (#26697189)
Does not look that good https://twitter.com/maxfras/status/1368913490308702208?ref_s...

The missing tuition support is really harsh, especially if Turing is for the US

Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by KaiserPro on Monday April 05, 2021 @06:33AM (#26697273)
supposedly, students don't pay tuition fees, because universities are expected to partner to waive fees.

I don't see this working in all honesty.

Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by vinay427 on Monday April 05, 2021 @12:08PM (#26700764)
This tuition agreement which is often implemented as a waiver (so the student pays at most their home rate) is already the case for many exchange programs which have existed between innumerable university-pairs for many years. I don't see why the Turing program approach wouldn't be feasible.
Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by eisa01 on Monday April 05, 2021 @09:14AM (#26698490)
Eurovision may be more for laughs today, but I believe it historically had a different position?

From watching it in the 90's as a child, I don't remember it being near as crazy as today, and they started in the 1950's

Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by hencq on Monday April 05, 2021 @01:58PM (#26702266)
It's been pretty camp for a long time though. As a European living in the US I got a good laugh when my American friends watched the Will Ferrell movie "Eurovision". Especially when I got to explain to them that it wasn't even all that exaggerated and some of the characters were actually real-life former contestants.
Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by mschuster91 on Monday April 05, 2021 @02:56PM (#26703067)
> E.g. non-artsy Italian and French cinema from Alain Delon to Bud Spenser was big all-over Europe until the 80s when Hollywood dominated with emphasis on impossible to meet big productions and vfx.

It's not impossible to meet Hollywood's financial power, also its artistic power... Germany alone for example has producers (Constantin Film), studios (Bavaria, Babelsberg), VFX shops (Scanline, Stargate, Pixomondo) or tech rental (ARRI), and not to mention all the locations which many US blockbusters regularly use.

The core difference America has and what makes Hollywood so dominant is that everything except locations is pretty much concentrated in Hollywood (with Vancouver and Toronto offshoots in Canada), whereas in Europe everything is splintered - Germany alone has Cologne, Berlin and Munich. That makes it harder for all parties involved in a production (please don't get me started on the disgrace that is high-speed internet connectivity here) and, crucially, we don't have the informal "network effects" resulting from having everyone drink at the same bars in one town.

If anyone, be it a billionaire or a government, in Europe were to fund a "cinema town" modeled after Hollywood, inter-European infighting would kill the project before it even had a chance at getting started. We can't even get our heavy industry companies merged so that they're sizable enough to fight against Chinese and US companies - how are we supposed to successfully do that for a industry that doesn't have much economic relevance?

Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by corty on Monday April 05, 2021 @04:20PM (#26704144)
Well, there are attempts, especially in France, to pick national champions in different industries and concentrate public funding on them to build up companies that are relevant on the international stage. This has also been tried on a (somewhat) European (but still French-dominated) scale with Airbus and Arianespace. But I think most other European governments view these kinds of activities rather suspiciously.
Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by the_duke on Monday April 05, 2021 @02:17PM (#26702535)
In general I agree, but I also have a counter point.

I enjoy the European shows on Amazon and Netflix, much more so than the tiring Hollywood garbage.

Netflix does bring a decent budget for more Hollywood competitive production value to shows that feel distinctively less "US", which is a good thing for Europe, or at least provides a distribution platform to increase revenue for local shows.

Of course many of those shows also are produced for selling to a global audience, and French or some other local productions are more valuable for a European culture.

But the contribution is not zero or negative.

German shows were especially horrible (no, really, horrible) until very recently.

Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by fireattack on Monday April 05, 2021 @05:13AM (#26696835)
What is "high-bro sphere"? I googled and didn't find anything.
Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by tim333 on Monday April 05, 2021 @05:14AM (#26696842)
I think he means highbrow as in opera, Dante etc.

I quite like the article and found it interesting. I'm a Brit and you have to realize British publications like the Economist tend to take the piss out of Europe a bit, especially the Eurovision song contest.

Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by oblio on Monday April 05, 2021 @05:20AM (#26696873)
> I quite like the article and found it interesting.

Well, you're British and this is a British publication targeting you :-)

Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by ascorbic on Monday April 05, 2021 @05:33AM (#26696971)
Most readers of the Economist aren't in the UK. It's not even its biggest market.
Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by walshemj on Monday April 05, 2021 @12:32PM (#26701140)
Quite a few countries do that as well not just the UK.

In the past Italy sent its B team - and TBH san remo has much better strike rate for good songs.

The main point of watching (UK perspective) is for the cometary, The late Terry Wogan and now Graham Norton ) and to see how few points the UK gets

Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by _notreallyme_ on Monday April 05, 2021 @05:17AM (#26696854)
I guess it's "elitist circles". There were no enforced borders before WWI. It was common for people who could afford it to travel between big European cities. So there is a big chunk of shared culture actually.
Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by lqet on Monday April 05, 2021 @05:31AM (#26696955)
> There were no enforced borders before WWI.

What do you mean by that? There were of course borders, and they were certainly enforced.

Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by coldtea on Monday April 05, 2021 @06:24AM (#26697226)
Not in today's sense:

Until the late 18th century travellers were more likely to be monitored at the district or parish level. During the French revolutionary wars the Jacobins began to issue foreign travellers with a carte de sureté on arrival at the French border, but these early ‘passports’ were dependent on the ideological affiliations of the holder rather than their nationality and subsequently fell into disuse after the Napoleonic Wars.

For much of the 19th century border control was sporadic and often non-existent, as millions of people migrated from Europe to the New World or within Europe itself without any passports or documentation. In 1942 the Austrian writer Stefan Zweig recalled the amazement of young people when he told them he had travelled across the world without a passport before the First World War.

The situation had started to change following the global economic slump in 1873, when governments began to introduce immigration controls based on nationality and ethnicity for the first time. In 1882 the US government passed the first Chinese Exclusion Act in response to racist ‘Yellow Peril’ lobbying from California politicians. In 1885 Bismarck ordered the expulsion of 40,000 Polish workers from Germany to prevent the ‘Polonization’ of Prussia. In 1897 the South African colony of Natal introduced a language test for immigrants, which barred entry to anyone who could not fill out an application form in English – a test that was specifically intended to eliminate ‘coolie’ labour from India. The ‘Natal formula’ was also introduced in Australia in order to keep out Chinese migrant workers.

https://www.historytoday.com/archive/history-matters/beyond-...

Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by neither_color on Monday April 05, 2021 @07:15AM (#26697581)
That's fascinating. I was recently reflecting on how in 20 years Ill be telling young people "with a western passport, you used to be able to just book a flight and fly to almost any country you want and stay at least 30 days, but then covid happened." I'm so glad I got to do some nomad-ing for 2 years in my mid 20s. That level of openness is gone, and no the vaccine isn't bringing it fully back. The borders between The US, Mexico and Canada used to be a lot fuzzier too only 30 years ago. While there was SOME control, it was a lot more lax and after 9/11 it never came back. Once you give up some openness for security it never returns.
Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by Veen on Monday April 05, 2021 @05:35AM (#26696980)
There were borders and they were enforced, but during the 19th and early 20th Century, it was quite normal for artistic elites to move around, especially to cultural hotspots like the Paris of the high-modernist era or Vienna in the late 19th C. etc.
Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by buran77 on Monday April 05, 2021 @09:18AM (#26698530)
Indeed but the view that survived from so long ago isn't coming from the "regular folks" but from a selection of people closer or fully a part of the elite. They're the people who could pass their ideas and experiences through the time. It's more or less like reading Bezos' journal two centuries from now and imagining that it's probably a representative way of life for the early 21st century.
Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by _notreallyme_ on Monday April 05, 2021 @06:13AM (#26697162)
I meant that passport were ot required for traveling inside Europe before WWI. Crossing borders didn't require to obtain a document beforehand.
Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by dudeinjapan on Monday April 05, 2021 @05:24AM (#26696909)
I think he's referring to this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAhM0nds2UY
Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by effie on Monday April 05, 2021 @08:41AM (#26698206)
Wow, how does he make that ball and coin levitate. Is this a CGI prank?
Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by dudeinjapan on Sunday April 11, 2021 @06:02AM (#26769070)
No it's not CGI. Here's another view and you can see at 7:00 he does a similar setup where there's a large ball placed on his head which he removes before doing the smaller floating ball, which gives him some excuse to touch his head. I'm guessing there is an invisible string dangling down off his forehead because the ball always floats in alignment with his head.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUqHLeXeecY

Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by effie on Sunday April 11, 2021 @08:36AM (#26769920)
You're definitely on to something. In both videos he touches his head and then spins the small ball. Still the execution is amazing.
Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by coldtea on Monday April 05, 2021 @06:21AM (#26697216)
Sorry, high-brow (I'm a notorious typo-ist). There's a high culture European dialogue that's been going on for a millenium at least, and even more intensely in the 18th and 19th and 20th centuries...

Both in the social scene (upper-middle classes and above travelling around Europe), and in the explicit and implicit exchange of influences and ideas between philosophers, writers, poets, musicians, painters, and so on.

Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by hectorlorenzo on Monday April 05, 2021 @06:43AM (#26697341)
Although I really like the idea of 18th century aristocratic Bros. Bumping gloved fists, downing full kegs of claret, and quoting Thomas Hobbes instead of Simon Sinek.
Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by coldtea on Monday April 05, 2021 @08:08AM (#26697943)
Well, I'd say romantic poets and enlightenment philosophers kind of were :-)
Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by midasuni on Monday April 05, 2021 @05:16AM (#26696846)
High brow

Opera, music, art, literature etc

Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by edeion on Monday April 05, 2021 @05:37AM (#26696996)
Thanks, I learned a new word :)

I thought OP was referring to the fact European upper noble families were all blood related and shared the same interests.

Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by asplake on Monday April 05, 2021 @05:42AM (#26697022)
The word’s origins are more dubious unfortunately: https://www.brainpickings.org/2011/08/23/the-myth-of-pop-cul...
Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by slavik81 on Monday April 05, 2021 @05:57AM (#26697094)
> The terms ‘highbrow’ and ‘lowbrow’ come from phrenology
Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by wombatmobile on Monday April 05, 2021 @05:31AM (#26696957)
The “high-bro sphere” is a circle of Europeans who are so culturally advanced they are not even a circle - they are a sphere.

They sit around in their special sphere saying things like “The Economist is pretentious, market-driven, and stupid, like Eurovision.”

Then they say “Yeah bro, high five!” like Borat.

Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by coldtea on Monday April 05, 2021 @06:27AM (#26697251)
Not sure what you mean here, but there appears to be a lot of resistance to the idea that, god forbid, anybody anywhere in the world might have a higher education and/or appreciate something more than pop culture.
Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by wombatmobile on Monday April 05, 2021 @07:08AM (#26697535)
I like opera, renaissance art, pop culture, rock music, Impressionism, jazz, and kitsch, amongst other things.

I’m not sure what you mean by “more than” pop culture.

There is good art and bad art in all genres, which are just mediums of cultural communication that reach different audiences.

I didn’t understand the reductionist criticism of The Economist, which I have found to publish numerous examples of good criticism and bad criticism, about a range of topics, mostly to do with economics, and occasionally culture.

I don’t think culture is The Economist’s forte. They probably don’t either, except when cultural platforms have measurable economic consequences.

Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by coldtea on Monday April 05, 2021 @08:10AM (#26697959)
>I’m not sure what you mean by “more than” pop culture.

Basically that aside from there being "good art and bad art in all genres" there are is also more substantial and less substantial forms and artistic cultures.

Re:Streaming subtitled box sets is the new Eurovision by wombatmobile on Monday April 05, 2021 @08:18AM (#26698023)
How do you measure "substantial"?