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Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by supernova87a on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @12:39AM (#26473089)
One thing I sometimes worry about --

Under this lockdown for a year, I've been eating a really un-diverse diet, cooking for myself every day basically, not much variation after I figured out the pattern of groceries, meals, things I generally feel like eating and taking the time to prepare.

Sometimes I wonder if I'm being gradually deprived of some nutrient I don't know about when I at least had 1 meal that came from outside and varied somewhat day to day...

Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by colordrops on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @03:27AM (#26473918)
How diverse does a diet have to be exactly? Most humans lived with a rather limited set of food choices until the industrial age. We didn't evolve to eat hundreds of different food items, and sometimes I wonder the opposite - perhaps we eat too many different things which might introduce some outliers that damage our systems.
Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by saiya-jin on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @05:09AM (#26474468)
Not sure about variety effect, but overall they had much healthier diet from certain perspective (fruits + vegetables + lean muscles/whatever part of animal). No processed sugars, preservatives and other slow-poison crap. I don't think the diet was complete and for sure some vitamins/nutrients were often missing (ie in winter).

Combine it with much higher activity and they would look like superman with regard to fitness to average human these days. At least those who survived those harsh conditions, infancy and various easy-to-cure-now ails like tooth infection or appendicitis.

Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by cestith on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @10:38AM (#26477253)
Not all preservatives deserve to be called poisons. BHT is a preservative because it's an antioxidant. It's available as a dietary supplement for that reason. Alpha-tocopherol is a preservative additive but is often used to fortify foods with additional vitamin E. Salt, vinegar, and ascorbic acid are all also preservatives.
Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by qlk1123 on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @04:04AM (#26474095)
I doubt that this is true. In the era of colletion and hunting, the diversity of food is based on the near-by ecosystem, which is larger than modern supermarket.
Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by PeterBarrett on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @04:30AM (#26474231)
There is no way that's true. No matter how far a person wandered they're not going to come across a bell pepper, lettuce, carrots, potatoes and any meat they could want.
Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by undersuit on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @11:13AM (#26477812)
You're perspective is skewed. Your knowledge only includes the local plants that we have created into our international rummaging choices. Bell Peppers are just one modern variety out from the ~30 species of chilies we've discovered. Same for carrots and potatoes and lettuce. I look at the variety of edible vegetation I can get at the grocery store and the only thing I really think of is it's a good day that I don't have to walk 20 miles to the fruit trees to pick the fruit before all the animals do.

Meat? tons of variety, there are like twenty different cat to dog sized animal species in my Montana wilderness before I even have to get to the large herbivores that have less variety. And meat is special anyways, the mink or weasel you can kill is chock-full of 2-5 years worth of collecting resources from various animal and vegetable sources.

Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by washadjeffmad on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @11:48PM (#26486291)
Have you ever eaten a pine cone?

Pine needles "contain more Vitamin C than an orange" (I didn't see it specified if that's by gross weight or dry mass) and make decent tea, and many cultures still boil and eat or cook with pine cones.

Modern crops are amazing, but we are literally surrounded by new and forgotten sustenance. It's not always pretty, tasty, or toothsome, but it's there if you have the time and will to turn it into food.

I'm also reminded of villages that "modernized" by trading their old fashioned cast iron cookware in for aluminum and began to suffer from anemia as a result. Iron is abundant in the crust, and eating mineral-rich clay is still practiced by humans and animals around the planet, but their solution was to put cast iron charms in the new pots for luck. It's possible they were in iron-poor areas, but if they were swayed to abandon their traditions by the appeal of commercial marketing, it seems likely they mught also eschew any dirt-eating practices they once might have had.

Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by hntrader on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @05:59AM (#26474786)
Highly sceptical of this if we're talking about the non-animal part of the diet.

Hadza ate only 4 non-animal foods, which is much less than what's available at a supermarket.

Hunter gatherers would've had a more diverse diet when it came to meats, eating the entire animal including most organs, but that's more cultural than what's specifically available at the supermarket (it's pretty easy to get organ meat at the supermarket and especially the butcher, but most people don't opt-in).

Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by fao_ on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @10:47AM (#26477397)
Right, but worth noting that raw beef, for example, contains a lot more nutrients than cooked beef[1], and includes most of the essential vitamins you would need to live.

Other parts of the animal, like the liver, would provide sources for A and B12, etc.

    > Because of its content in highly valuable
    > nutrients such as iron, zinc, selenium, fatty
    > acids, and vitamins, meat is a unique and
    > necessary food for the human diet in order
    > to secure a long and healthy life, without
    > nutritional deficiencies.[2]
[1]: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1365-2621....

[2]: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S03091...

Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by ballarak on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @10:35AM (#26477214)
The book Sapiens discusses this at length. Our early hunter gatherer ancestors had a much more varied diet compared to agricultural society
Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by smilespray on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @05:48AM (#26474711)
This year's Dorito season is going to be plentiful.
Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by bottled_poe on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @05:02AM (#26474422)
They also didn’t live to a ripe age.
Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by rhinoceraptor on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @09:25AM (#26476368)
That's a bit of a myth. Life expectancy was vastly less than it is now, but that is because of infant mortality, death in childbirth, lack of emergency medicine, etc. Those that survived all that lived about the same as today, about 70-80 years:

https://www.jstor.org/stable/25434609?seq=1

Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by marliechiller on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @05:29AM (#26474594)
correlation_bias.jpeg
Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by bottled_poe on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @07:43AM (#26475454)
Sure, yet still somehow a stronger argument than the comment I was responding too.
Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by lambdaba on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @04:58AM (#26474393)
Look up "paleolithic ketogenic" diet, a clinic in Hungary is treating "incurable" disease with an all-meat high fat diet. With extraordinary success.

Humans were obviously hunters for most of our evolutionary history, deriving most of our calories from animal fat.

Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by staticman2 on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @10:43AM (#26477331)
I'm not aware of any scientific consensus supporting fad diets. Sounds like "bro science".
Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by lambdaba on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @04:17PM (#26482251)
This clinic has researchers and they publish, plus they cure the incurable, it's not something to be dismissed as a "fad". If anything, the fad diet is whatever we're doing since the 50s, or all the way up to the invention of agriculture.
Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by staticman2 on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @08:00PM (#26484867)
Your argument supposes you know something that the experts in the field don't know, since there is no consensus supporting such a diet.

The increased animal suffering alone is a good reason to not try such a diet, nevermind the small support in the scientific community.

Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by lambdaba on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @04:56AM (#26488198)
I think I do, I'm in remission from chronic autoimmune disease thanks to this diet.

The clinic publishes research, that it's not mainstream doesn't in any way invalidate their results.

Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by kashyapc on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @12:35PM (#26479110)
I don't think you're deprived of any nutrients. Sticking to a well-chosen, consistent diet is a feature, not a bug. Most of us living in modern cities have a dizzying array of options to the point that today more humans die due to obesity today than to malnutrition.

Heck, even more than 2000 years ago, people were conscious of too much food variety. Here, look at Seneca riffing on it in a letter to his friend (titled 'A beneficial reading program'):

"You must stay with a limited number of writers and be fed by them if you mean to derive anything that will dwell reliably with you [...] 'But I want to read different books at different times,' you say. The person of delicate digestion nibbles at this and that; when the diet is too varied, though, food does not nourish but only upsets the stomach."

Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by threatofrain on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @02:28PM (#26480852)
It’s not obvious why you think food diversity is related to diabetes risk in the modern age.
Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by kashyapc on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @05:52PM (#26483585)
Fair question. I did anticipate it, as my argument wasn't watertight.

I mean to say that the sheer variety aggravates our boundless appetites, which are difficult to restrain as-is. Couple that with the unhealthy eating habits our modern age "encourages" (I put it in air quotes because we have personal agency to push back). And we can see where this is going. The details are very much debatable, but the broader point stands.

Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by akamaka on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @01:55AM (#26473477)
If you found a set of foods that leave you satisfied every day and you’re never craving something else, it sounds like you’re doing pretty great. And if you’re worried about getting enough trace minerals, you could easily add some dark chocolate, seeds, nuts, and fresh herbs.
Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by tpush on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @05:27AM (#26474588)
If you're that concerned, go to a doctor and do a blood test to see what's up.

But please don't take nutrition advice from an internet message board about software and startups.

Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by sneak on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @04:29AM (#26474227)
I find myself having weird food cravings when this happens. I take a multivitamin every day but during the pandemic I've also been eating the same half-dozen things, over and over and over.

It's definitely missing something (that the multivitamin is insufficient in completely replacing) because sometimes I'll order delivery takeout from somewhere and feel like a new person after eating it.

Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by benlumen on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @04:29AM (#26474224)
An effervescent multivitamin drink (Berocca or equivalent), Omega 3 and a decent dose of Vit D should cover you.

And if in doubt, have a side of steamed broccoli.

Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by sva_ on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @05:28AM (#26474592)
Increasing omega3 was a major one for me, definitely decreased chronic inflammation. The problem occurs if one's omega6:omega3 ratio is off, and most westerner's diets are very high in predominantly omega6 fatty acids[0] (such as olive oil, and most other oils). Though if you choose to supplement omega3, make sure it is controlled for mercury-contaminants.

With fat-soluble vitamins such as Vitamin D, be vary of vitamin toxicity (Hypervitaminosis[1]), as they accumulate in the body. But you'd probably have to take a huge amount over a long time to get there.

Another interesting supplement might be L-Carnitine[2], especially if you eat little/no meat.

[0] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12442909/

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervitaminosis

[2] https://examine.com/supplements/l-carnitine/#effect-matrix

Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by Delk on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @11:50AM (#26478410)
How did you figure out the change decreased chronic inflammation? Was there a change in inflammatory markers or something? Or more of a hunch?
Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by sva_ on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @03:17PM (#26481523)
I'm a bit shy to admit, but the most objective marker was a significant reduction in acne (on my shoulders). But overall I also feel a lot calmer, I digest food better, I sleep better, and some other things that are hard to pinpoint. I just have an overall greater feeling of well-being. I know this is only n=1 and hard to prove that it's due to omega3, but I just really feel like it is closely related.

I also have to point out that I've eaten a vegetarian diet since about 2008. I always thought I had a pretty healthy diet and blood work confirmed that, but it appears that it didn't control for omega3 concentrations. Part of that diet was that I consumed large amounts of (in particular) olive oil (omega6), and almost negligible amounts of omega3.

Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by Delk on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @03:24PM (#26481616)
If you're feeling that much better overall, it's probably much healthier for you regardless of why that happens to be. Sounds like a good deal. :)
Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by dgellow on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @04:29AM (#26474228)
If you want to know your situation, I believe that you can just go to a general doctor and ask for a blood test. I heard that's common for people with vegan diet.

(I haven't done it myself yet, so I'm not sure what metrics they can give you)

Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by npsimons on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @02:39PM (#26495183)
I switched to a whole food plant based diet after reading "How not to Die", and I believe it's served me well during the pandemic, cooking for myself and hitting my micronutrients pretty much every day. I check using cronometer.com, and in pretty much every category I'm getting more than enough.

Eating the same thing every day isn't the problem; it's not eating enough different things to get all your nutrients. Just for example, I pretty much eat beets, broccoli, blueberries, almonds, bananas, mango, dates, oatmeal, greens, legumes (lentils, chickpeas or kidney beans), turmeric, flax seed and nutritional yeast (for B12)) every day. My labs a week ago were perfect, I'm actually over for vitamins D and B12.

Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by bllguo on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @05:18AM (#26474535)
I think a blood test can answer these questions, at least to some degree. My doctor had me undergo a blood test at my physical and it exposed my lack of vitamin B12
Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by chrisco255 on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @03:05AM (#26473805)
Why is it assumed that a diverse diet is necessarily better for you? If you're cooking for yourself, fresh, unprocessed foods, you're already way ahead of the game.
Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by collyw on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @04:13AM (#26474140)
To be fair, the OP wondered if he was missing out on some nutrient. That was the reason for scurvy in the past, limited diet of a ship, lack of vitamin C.
Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by gwd on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @04:46AM (#26474311)
> That was the reason for scurvy in the past, limited diet of a ship, lack of vitamin C.

AIUI, it wasn't the limited diet, but the lack of fresh food. What I heard was that basically everything you eat has vitamin C in it (which is why our bodies forgot how to manufacture it on their own -- why bother making your own when it's already all around you?), but that it decays fairly rapidly. So it doesn't matter how diverse your food supply is, if it's all canned / salted / preserved, you're going to have problems.

I guess it depends on how "routine" OP's routine is. If they're eating just potatoes and bacon every meal, they're going to have problems. But if they have 2-3 forms of starch, 2-3 types of vegetables, and 2-3 forms of protein mixed together, I think they're probably doing about as well as most human beings have done throughout time.

That said, never hurts to take a good multivitamin. :-)

Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by undersuit on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @11:21AM (#26477952)
>But if they have 2-3 forms of starch, 2-3 types of vegetables, and 2-3 forms of protein mixed together,

TBF... that sounds pretty diverse.

Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by mint2 on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @01:27AM (#26473354)
Take vitamin b12 at a minimum.
Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by youngtaff on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @10:28AM (#26477112)
Some people don't absorb b12 via digestion so have to inject it instead
Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by corndoge on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @12:45AM (#26473108)
Just take a multivitamin
Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by m463 on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @12:55AM (#26473169)
I've been wondering if vitamin technology has been keeping up.

for example, I read there is more than one form of vitamin E and just supplementing one might not work as expected.

Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by vector_spaces on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @03:28AM (#26473926)
Vitamins are determined by their biological functions, not by chemical structure. Compounds which satisfy the functions of a particular vitamin are known as vitamers of that vitamin. For example cyanocobalamin and methylcobalamin are both vitamers of B12 despite being chemically distinct.

It's true that some vitamers are more easily metabolized by certain routes than others. In the example I gave, methylcobalamin is superior when it comes to oral supplements.

Also if you can, try taking a multivitamin without minerals, and take a mineral supplement separately. A lot of minerals interfere with one another's absorption along with that of many vitamins (zinc, calcium, and iron should all be taken away from each other and from vitamin supplements).

Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by TedDoesntTalk on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @01:21AM (#26473320)
> I've been wondering if vitamin technology has been keeping up.

Definitely they have but not in brands typically found in grocery stores. Look at brands like PureEncapsulations, Thorne, and Swanson for example.

I personally take PureEncapsulations ONE multivitamin daily.

Be careful with vitamin E... too much is NOT a good thing. And yes, there is more than one kind each with different bioavailability.

A lot of multivitamins don’t include minerals, especially iron.

Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by lotsofpulp on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @04:31AM (#26474237)
In the US, I wouldn’t take a vitamin without the USP label:

https://www.usp.org/

There’s no government oversight of vitamins and supplements, but at least USP might give the veneer of some verification.

Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by collyw on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @04:15AM (#26474147)
I read somewhere that a large part of the "quality" of vitamin pills come down to how crumbly they are. Small dense vitamins are so good. Big pills are.
Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by Gustomaximus on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @01:51AM (#26473462)
The best I have found is this: https://www.nuzest.com.au/collections/good-green-stuff

Not a shill, have Crohns so can get absorbsion issues with food/nutrients. This stuff noticeably helps over a multivitamin pill... maybe placebo but I absolutely feel the difference.

Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by sgt101 on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @04:28AM (#26474220)
Look, I can write a bullshot article telling you that you need to take vitamine frroorofrom and then offer to sell it to you for $20 a pill. If you want to believe it and spend your money, good for me!

On the other hand the $5 a jar multivits cover all your actual supplement needs.

Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by novok on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @03:15PM (#26481506)
There is a concept of bioavailbility. Some vitamins & minerals are more absorbable than others, and if you have issues you can be asorbing or converting certain ones not as well as you may think:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioavailability

Also do we know all the nutrients people need and amount also considering what is optimally healthy, genetics, age, medical conditions? Definitely not.

Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by alert0 on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @01:18AM (#26473298)
Ok, don't take a multivitamin then.
Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by aputsiak on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @01:27AM (#26473353)
Terry Wahls, the doctor who claims she reversed her MS through diet would only partly agree. In her book 'The Wahls Protocol', she spells a diet regime out from a functional medicine perspective.
Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by bennyelv on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @03:42AM (#26473995)
Unfortunately for people with MS (like myself) she’s wrong. Her original experience is in fact quite “normal” for the behaviour of MS. It gets significantly worse, then significantly better, then worse, etc etc.

Her study that then followed up did find a positive result, but had a very small sample size, nowhere near large enough for a highly variable condition like MS. Drug companies have to spend billions running 5-10-20 year studies with 1000’s of participants to verify the efficacy of their MS treatments for good reason.

A recent Cochrane review on diet interventions for MS which references her study (amongst others obviously) concluded that “at present there is insufficient evidence to determine whether supplementation with antioxidants or other dietary interventions have any impact on MS related outcomes.”

The biggest giveaway that a medical treatment is snake oil in my experience is when it comes with a book for sale for £20 on Amazon.

Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by specialist on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @10:49AM (#26492007)
I am very interested in any research wrt Wahl's protocol. Is this the study you reference?

https://www.cochrane.org/CD004192/MS_dietary-interventions-m...

Meta: I deeply appreciate this article explicitly stating "The evidence is current to May 2019." It's so hard for noobs like me to sherlock this stuff.

> supplementation with antioxidants or other dietary interventions

Those other interventions are macronutrients, to benefit your mitochondria. I'll go back and look, but I don't recall Wahls saying much about antioxidants.

FWIW, I believe, but cannot prove, that Wahl's advice to resume eating meat, esp organ meat, benefitted me. I had been working towards vegetarian and suffering terribly from inflammation and autoimmune stuff. I have no idea how or why. I only know that whenever I resume my prior dietary habits (more carbs, less meat), I decline. My fat and produce consumption has remained more or less constant. A lot coconut oil, olive oil, and every big leafy green that fits into the blender.

Re:Loss of myelin is one of the major factors of age-related... by sneak on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @04:30AM (#26474234)
This is, in my experience, insufficient.