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Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by dugditches on Thursday October 22, 2020 @09:30AM (#24857761)
Reading some blog spam and learning about 'Box Breathing' really helped me. Apparently it's used by Navy Seals, but it really helps me get to sleep if I can't. Or in stressful or sudden situations, it really helps clear your head.

Just a simple breathe in, hold, exhale, hold. Taking 4 slow seconds for each step.

I was very, very skeptic of breathing techniques and meditation. However after learning this technique things kind of 'clicked' and meditation started to make sense, and see why it's thrown around so much.

Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by bonestamp2 on Thursday October 22, 2020 @10:29AM (#24858398)
For those who are curious, it's called "Box Breathing" because, if it's helpful for you, you can picture a box and then trace the edges of the box in your mind as you're counting for each of the 4 steps (inhale, hold, exhale, hold). That visual can help take your mind off whatever is making you do this in the first place.
Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by TedDoesntTalk on Thursday October 22, 2020 @11:17AM (#24858921)
Thanks for sharing that since I did not know the reason for the name.

But a box is a cube. Since there are four steps, shouldn’t it be called square breathing?

Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by Crespyl on Thursday October 22, 2020 @11:42AM (#24859223)
"Box" is used often enough in natural english to refer to a square, particularly in the context of diagrams. "Draw a box around it", etc.
Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by wlesieutre on Thursday October 22, 2020 @01:01PM (#24860262)

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Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by pelario on Thursday October 22, 2020 @01:17PM (#24860447)
A 3d box is a cube, a 2d box is a square.
Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by pawelmi on Thursday October 22, 2020 @04:34PM (#24863009)
Does tesseract count as box too? ;)
Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by segfaultbuserr on Thursday October 22, 2020 @05:21PM (#24863433)
In parallel computing, similar topologies are known as the Hypercube architecture. And in English, "boxes" can refer to computers or networking devices in general, so yes? ;-)
Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by loco5niner on Thursday October 22, 2020 @11:48AM (#24859306)
> But a box is a cube

only for some definitions of box

Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by n1000 on Thursday October 22, 2020 @10:15AM (#24858244)
Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by runjake on Thursday October 22, 2020 @10:44AM (#24858523)
I don't know why box breathing always gets credited as a Navy SEAL invention. This is a centuries-old technique and the SEALs got this from yoga/pranayama.
Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by varjag on Thursday October 22, 2020 @01:04PM (#24860306)
There is a huge demographic that would buy yoga pants if you explain they are tactical seal team 6 pants.
Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by dguaraglia on Thursday October 22, 2020 @02:29PM (#24861492)
LOL, you are not far off. I can't remember where, but a while ago I saw an interview with some guy who did pretty much that: he opened a studio but instead of calling it yoga he came up with some 'cool' name like 'RX+fitness' or whatever (you get the idea) and marketed to 'tough guys'. He even said in the interview it was mostly yoga with some cardio, but that the whole ambiance was designed to make males feel secure doing it. He was making a killing.
Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by papabrown on Saturday October 24, 2020 @09:43PM (#24883238)
While I also believe what you’d at to be true, I fail to see how this is any different than Tim Ferriss or many other people like him.

If Tim says X works, how many Silicon Valley types suddenly start doing it?

In fact, given that former Navy SEAL Jocko Wilnick is all the rage in the business world and Tim Ferriss is also followed by the same crowd, the crossover between those two groups is probably larger than you think.

Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by alexmorenodev on Thursday October 22, 2020 @10:51AM (#24858617)
Is it? I always read about it as "used" by Navy SEAL, not "created" by them.
Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by ssully on Thursday October 22, 2020 @11:37AM (#24859154)
It sounds a lot cooler for some people to say they use a technique that Navy SEALs use instead of calling it a yoga technique.
Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by irjustin on Thursday October 22, 2020 @11:28AM (#24859047)
It's like the moon walk[0]. Michael Jackson made it popular but it had been around well before hand.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonwalk_(dance)

Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by rv-de on Thursday October 22, 2020 @11:49AM (#24859317)
technically, in pranayama you never hold your breath after exhaling. also a 16 second cycle is quite fast for a pranayama technique.
Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by cronopios on Thursday October 22, 2020 @12:37PM (#24859928)
Yes, you do. It is called Bahya Kumbhaka.
Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by rv-de on Thursday October 22, 2020 @01:09PM (#24860352)
It does not play any significant role. That you can hold breath after exhaling is obvious and yogis probably talked about it. Doesn't change the fact though that Pranayama is all about holding breath after inhaling. That is basically the core goal.
Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by vram22 on Thursday October 22, 2020 @03:37PM (#24862455)
No, that is not the only core goal. Pranayama has many breathing exercises with many different goals.

And cronopios is right:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumbhaka

Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by cronopios on Thursday October 22, 2020 @02:37PM (#24861630)
Different pranayamas have different goals. Check out Bhastrika pranayama for instance.
Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by rv-de on Thursday October 22, 2020 @03:19PM (#24862219)
okay, I'll have another look at it. anyway - my intention was not to disregard breathing techniques where breath holding after exhalation plays a role. I do a few of them on a regular basis. I just don't like the Navy Seals practice Pranayama sentiment. can't even say why exactly.
Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by chordalkeyboard on Thursday October 22, 2020 @10:01PM (#24865326)
> I just don't like the Navy Seals practice Pranayama sentiment.

Me either, its like two annoying memes are trying to breed a memeplex together.

Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by TrainedMonkey on Thursday October 22, 2020 @12:57PM (#24860204)
They might have created boxed breathing in training / unboxed breathing on the mission paradigm.
Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by tlavoie on Friday October 23, 2020 @01:49AM (#24866386)
I'm on a local fire department, and we've had this taught as one option to try and manage air use with the SCBA packs. I find it useful, but since I'm already conscious of breathing (with some slight effort to inhale), I tend to feel the need more than without the pack.

It does seem to help to hum (for some) or at least purse your lips (for me) to drag out the exhalation step without having to inhale right away. I would certainly like to be better at this though, those packs don't last that long.

Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by beaconstudios on Thursday October 22, 2020 @10:00AM (#24858084)
slow breathing is one of the things that helps with breath-focused meditation, but there are other techniques with varying intentions and benefits.

Broadly speaking, mindfulness-type meditation can make you aware of thoughts or emotions that you weren't previously aware of that could be affecting you. Has something ever bothered you, and you didn't realise how much until later on when you got irrationally annoyed at something else and thought "wait a minute, this shouldn't bother me this much"? Mindfulness practices can make you more aware of that emotion sooner so you're not carrying it with you all day. There's nothing inherently odd about it.

There are also other forms of meditation that are intended to increase your sense of love and gratitude (metta), to come to grips with your own mortality (maranassati), and surely other psychological exercises I'm not aware of.

Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by abeppu on Thursday October 22, 2020 @10:59AM (#24858702)
But often mindfulness of breath instruction will suggest not trying to force your breath to be fast or slow, but to be attentive and aware of the character of the breath.
Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by beaconstudios on Thursday October 22, 2020 @11:10AM (#24858851)
true, but in deep meditation breath tends to slow down quite dramatically. It's not a case of "hold for 4", more just a natural rhythmic slowdown.
Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by softwaredoug on Thursday October 22, 2020 @09:34AM (#24857802)
There’s a similar yoga technique called 4-7-8 breathing. Breath in for 4, hold for 7, exhale for 8
Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by hanoz on Thursday October 22, 2020 @10:01AM (#24858104)
Scalene triangle breathing?
Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by ekabod on Thursday October 22, 2020 @09:57AM (#24858058)
4-7-8 is better than 4-4-4-4 to help fall in sleep to my experience.
Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by rashkov on Thursday October 22, 2020 @02:34PM (#24861574)
I really like this technique. Sometimes it gives me a pleasant head rush which instantly relaxes my entire body. It helps me to fall asleep or to relax in every day life.

There's a nice dynamic with this technique where you end up using more of the oxygen in your breath, since you inhale for less time (4 seconds) than you hold & exhale (7+8 seconds).

With box breathing, on the other hand, I find it really unpleasant to hold the empty lung position, and also four seconds feels like it's really not enough to use my full breath.

Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by rramadass on Thursday October 22, 2020 @11:38PM (#24865835)
The "standard" count in Classical Pranayama is usually 1:4:2 i.e. breathe in for x secs, hold for 4x secs and exhale for 2x secs.
Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by jcul on Friday October 23, 2020 @02:10AM (#24866483)
In my training it was usually the exhale that was lengthened. Though my training was more physical yoga focused (Asana) so perhaps classical / more advanced / different purpose pranayama is different. Usually it was 1:1:2 inhale, hold, exhale.
Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by rramadass on Saturday October 24, 2020 @12:02AM (#24876845)
One of the things which bothers me is that, with the explosion of interest in all aspects of Yoga, there has been a concomitant dilution/muddying of its original teachings by Self-styled, New-Age, Half-baked gurus and plain old Charlatans. They simply lack the knowledge, which is unforgivable when you realize that the original sources are just a "google search" away.

For people interested in the Original sources, i highly recommend starting with; Roots of Yoga by James Mallinson and Mark Singleton to know the primary sources and then actually reading them.

Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by vram22 on Thursday October 22, 2020 @11:12AM (#24858872)
There's a video about it by a doctor (who is into these kinds of things, apart from his regular work) somewhere on YouTube. Saw it some time ago.

Edit: found it:

Watch "How To Perform the 4-7-8 Breathing Exercise | Andrew Weil, M.D." on YouTube

https://youtu.be/YRPh_GaiL8s

Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by Biganon on Thursday October 22, 2020 @02:23PM (#24861399)
If that helped him solve Fermat's last conjecture, it can probably help me relax
Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by mseidl on Thursday October 22, 2020 @10:33AM (#24858428)
I learned/practiced this in my martial arts. I guess I'm the same level as a navy seal.
Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by pedalpete on Thursday October 22, 2020 @06:32PM (#24863987)
We each have our own specific breath-rate, box breathing, 4-7-8 or other styles of conscious breathing attempt to slow down your breath-rate and calm your autonomic nervous system, and for many people calms them enough to fall asleep.

I have a very low breath-rate and find box breathing far too quick, and even 4-7-8 often feels fast.

We're building a sleep headband and one component is monitoring your breath-rate and learning what your breath-rate is as you fall asleep. Once we know what your optimal breath-rate for sleep is, we can then play sounds which you consciously follow with your breath, and this will guide you to sleep. It's almost like a personalized breath timing exercise.

Breath is only one of the ways we are working to improve sleep. If this is interesting to you, find out more at https://soundmind.co and sign-up for the waitlist.

Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by necrotic_comp on Thursday October 22, 2020 @09:53AM (#24858010)
I was taught this in my grappling sports as a child! We did it for 10 seconds each step, and it's just enough that it slows everything down and helps you fall asleep.
Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by mr-ron on Thursday October 22, 2020 @09:50AM (#24857968)
I learned and started using this from the game Wolfenstein, New Order.

And I use it all the time for falling asleep. Works amazing!

Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by ghostpepper on Thursday October 22, 2020 @10:42AM (#24858504)
I am curious about the Navy SEAL connection because I was recently told by a scuba instructor never to do box breathing. Holding your breath while ascending from depth can cause over inflation of the lungs.

Regular deep, slow diaphragmatic breathing is what they recommend.

Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by curun1r on Thursday October 22, 2020 @01:40PM (#24860763)
They tell SCUBA divers that because most people aren't aware enough about their airway. Those who practice breathing techniques can develop that ability/awareness and have it become second nature to hold safely.

There are two ways to hold your breath. The first, and what most people will do, is to seal off their airway at the back of the throat. If you ascend and your airway is closed at the throat, lung expansion injury is a definite danger.

But you can also hold your breath with your airway open and only seal at the mouth. This requires more diaphragm control because you're using that muscle to hold open your lungs. It's like the isometric version of breathing. If you ascend while holding your breath with your airway open, air will just be pushed out of your lungs and through the lips, since that seal isn't nearly as strong. This is why SCUBA divers are taught not to hold their breaths and to blow small bubbles when their respirators come out because both practices ensures an open airway. But those aren't the only ways to keep the airway open.

For SEALs, I would imagine it's important to learn to safely hold one's breath underwater. Exhaling bubbles make you visible to both other divers and those at the surface and there are times that a SEAL team would need stealth underwater. Some minimal risk of lung expansion is acceptable when trying to avoid getting killed in some other way. I had a diving instructor who had originally been trained by the Jordanian military's SEAL equivalent who would breathe roughly once per minute. He said it was second nature based on his training but that we should learn to breathe the way PADI recommends since no one would be shooting at us.

Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by papabrown on Saturday October 24, 2020 @10:40PM (#24883462)
If bubbles were a concern for Navy SEALs they would use a rebreather which emits no bubbles.

You cannot conceal bubbles while on SCUBA.

Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by Aromasin on Thursday October 22, 2020 @11:01AM (#24858731)
I do a lot of cave and wreck diving, where box breathing is reguarly touted as a fantastic way to calm yourself if you get into a stressful situation. You do it while at rest if you find yourself disorientated.

Never hold your breate while ascending =/= Never hold your breathe underwater.

Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by the_other on Thursday October 22, 2020 @10:47AM (#24858570)
SEALs are mammals too; even they spend _some_ time on land.

And, said in a less snarky way: I can see why a diving instructor would say "don't hold your breath" when you're under water. Navy SEALs likely dive a lot, but they also do training and actions above the water. And they likely spend a lot of time in stressful situations (certainly more than me). I can imagine they might box breath _on land_ to help manage the stress.

Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by ta1234567890 on Thursday October 22, 2020 @11:26AM (#24859031)
A couple of years ago I met a guy who was training to become a SEAL and told me they use several different "consciousness techniques". As an example, he said when in stressful situations they are taught to recite: "go slow, slow is smooth, smooth is fast" over and over (like a mantra). He had last used it the previous day when jumping out of a helicopter into the ocean to then secure a boat - which didn't include any scuba diving, and for which they could have used box breathing as well.
Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by papabrown on Saturday October 24, 2020 @10:18PM (#24883372)
As a former SCUBA diving instructor and dive master, teaching students not to hold their breath is simply easier than teaching people a technique that would take a considerable amount of time to master.

I have 5 classroom sessions of about an hour each and two pool sessions and 4 open water dives to take you knowing nothing to keeping you from killing yourself.

When I first got certified as a diver, I would suck down a tank in 15 minutes. By the time I became an instructor, my longest dive on a single tank was close to 1.5 hours and I had plenty of air left.

It would be pointless for me to try and teach breathing control techniques I was using by the time I became an instructor to an Open Water Diver student who will be lucky enough to remove and replace his regulator to pass the course.

We teach not holding your breath because most inexperienced divers will default to panicked fight or flight the second anything goes wrong.

Believe me, I’ve had to physically restrain students underwater when the reg fell out of their mouth and it took them more than 2 seconds to find it. They immediately want to shoot to the surface and 100% they’ll be holding their breath (another aspect of panic) if I don’t hold them down, put the reg back in their mouth, and calm them down.

Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by papabrown on Saturday October 24, 2020 @10:37PM (#24883450)
I’ll also add to my previous comment and say that the reason you’re taught slow, diaphragmatic breathing is because your lungs impact your buoyancy in the water.

Breath in, you begin to ascend. Breath out, you will sink.

Your goal is to find a breathing pattern that allows you to stay neutrally buoyant so you’re not fighting the rise and fall by swimming against it.

Part of the instructor exam, at least when I took it, was a pool session where they tested your ability to achieve and maintain neutral buoyancy.

You would sit cross legged holding your fins for balance like a meditator half way between the bottom and the surface and you could not rise or fall more than a foot.

It’s something a lot of divers also practice when doing safety stops. Even if there’s an ascent line, many will simply stop at 15 feet, and watch their dive computer trying to maintain exactly at 15 feet using only their breathing.

The reason for that is often there will be no ascent line or you may have to do decompression stops in open water with no physical point of reference.

Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by Fezzik on Thursday October 22, 2020 @10:50AM (#24858601)
My understanding is that (in theory) box breathing is used to calm and focus the practitioner - it’s not something you do while exerting yourself at all. If you tried box breathing while running (or diving), for example, you would quickly need to stop running or pass out.
Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by travisjungroth on Thursday October 22, 2020 @11:51AM (#24859334)
People also used to use constant box breathing in scuba as a way to conserve air. Although it was more a triangle breath, with no pause on the exhale. Turns out, doesn't really work for that. But it can still be a nice tool for calming yourself down.
Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by me_me_me on Thursday October 22, 2020 @10:58AM (#24858699)
that when you ascend.

In the emergency ascending you are suppose to constantly exhale all the way to the surface. otherwise your lungs might tear.

When doing next dive take a balloon with you and fill it with your air at the depth. Then go up.

Otherwise when at same depth you don't have to worry too much about it.

Disclaimer i am not an actual certified diving instructor.

Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by hi41 on Thursday October 22, 2020 @09:17PM (#24865148)
How fo you keep track of 4 seconds? Do you constantly count until 4 in your mind?
Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by AtlasBarfed on Thursday October 22, 2020 @07:59PM (#24864676)
I prefer the 3-5-7 technique.
Re:The physiological effects of slow breathing in the health... by xattt on Thursday October 22, 2020 @09:41AM (#24857862)
I wonder how close this is to the breathing in the app on the Apple Watch.