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Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by raxxorrax on Thursday September 17, 2020 @08:47AM (#24503921)
With von der Leyen being president, I am pretty sure we make the wrong decision. Yes, some Europeans might think she looks sympathetic, especially those that don't know her well because of language barriers. That she is on the position is testament to the democratic dysfunction of the Union.

Officially she is in a conservative party, which eastern European countries liked very much.

If we want to take democracy seriously, we would need a common language or at least a common media landscape. We could just use US media of course. They have the opposite problem that everyone understands what they are saying.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by ctas on Thursday September 17, 2020 @09:17AM (#24504233)
I don't consider her being in the conservative party the actual problem.

In Germany she's well known for nepotism and corruptness, even if until this day she successfully evaded the punishment. Not long ago there's been a claim that her phone contains important evidence in support of the accusation, but it turned out that data on the phone had been "accidentally" wiped.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by KingOfCoders on Thursday September 17, 2020 @09:33AM (#24504386)
"In Germany she's well known for nepotism"

As a German this is not "well known" to me, do you have a source?

Until now I thought one Accenture manager was the godfather of a child of a deparment manager in the ministry of defence and Accenture got an consulting gig? I didn't know until now she was giving jobs to her relatives.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by turbinerneiter on Thursday September 17, 2020 @11:49AM (#24506099)
One of her kids works for one of the big consulting companies she loved to hire.

But more importantly, the people working for her on the government side were often super close to the consultants they hired. As the minister, she takes responsibility for what is going on in her ministry - and that was full of friends giving contracts to friends.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by lippel82 on Thursday September 17, 2020 @01:25PM (#24507372)
To be fair, her son worked in the silicon valley office in a very junior position at the time. That's very far removed from the German public sector consulting. She has seven well educated children, they have to work somewhere...
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by LargoLasskhyfv on Thursday September 17, 2020 @02:36PM (#24508321)
It's called networking.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by KingOfCoders on Thursday September 17, 2020 @01:49PM (#24507696)
Thanks.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by pantalaimon on Thursday September 17, 2020 @09:53AM (#24504604)
I still have a “Zensursula” T-Shirt from when she wanted to introduce Internet censorship because “think of the children”.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by KingOfCoders on Thursday September 17, 2020 @10:05AM (#24504757)
"Lots of"? Perhaps for coders ;-) 0,1,lotsof
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by xnyan on Thursday September 17, 2020 @09:49PM (#24512127)
Even as an undergraduate polisci major, in my European Union courses she was discussed. Here is an interesting anecdote about her: the institution that granted her equivalent of an MD (she’s still a physician) acknowledged that more than 40% of her thesis was plagiarized, however because telepathic analysis does not exist and this it is not possible prove that she intended in her mind to cheat as she was engaged in the act of cheating, her degree was not revoked. Sources in the article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursula_von_der_Leyen?wprov=sft...
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by dependsontheq on Friday September 18, 2020 @01:46AM (#24513361)
While I understand the discussion, in general Medical doctorates in Germany do not have the same standards as other PHDs. “Mouse dying after not being fed for a month” could actually be a real title, the problem for German doctors is that they more or less have to have the title.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by xnyan on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:15AM (#24516324)
If I recall, there's something like 3 "tiers" of physician depending on how long you were in school? It's interesting.

But anyway, I think the point is still a fair one. Major portions of her thesis were plagiarized. Even if it was an accident (I don't see how that would be possible), the least thesis should be revoked or all students should be allowed to plagiarize their theses as well.

Being part of a rich and powerful family does not make one bad, using that power to cheat and exploit sure does.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by woodpanel on Thursday September 17, 2020 @04:12PM (#24509392)
Being a consultant in Germany myself I can tell you that during the whole "Bundeswehr Berateraffäre" (an alledged scandal involving contracts given to consultancies when von der Leyen was Secretary of Defense), that at least all Blue Chip to Mid Cap Stock Index companies in Germany cringed in silence, as the 300M € von der Leyen supposedly embazzled look pathetic to the budgets these companies dump on consultants each year. One scrum team will easily go for 1.5-2M per year just for the non-managerial developer staff.

It was a classic non-scandal, with zero convictions or indictments in the end, in stark contrast to the attention it got in the media. Not surprising considering how German journalists tend to dislike conservatives in general and how my countrymen on average lack basic financial education.

Disclaimer: I never voted conservative (CDU) and never will, but as much as I don't like von der Leyen "she's well known for nepotism" is just unfair and untrue.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by codethief on Thursday September 17, 2020 @04:59PM (#24509886)
> the 300M € von der Leyen supposedly embazzled look pathetic to the budgets these companies dump on consultants each year

Are you saying that Blue Chip to Mid Cap Stock Index companies regularly spend > 1B on consulting?

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by johndrocky on Thursday September 17, 2020 @08:35PM (#24511681)
He might be referring to Germanys beacons of good corporate governance and not corruption; Deutschebank and Wirecard

Either way using relativism to minimise a crime is sophistry

"I murdered a few people - the US government kills thousands of people a year in <current war>" - you're still guilty of murder, even if someone is better at the crime than you are.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by woodpanel on Friday September 18, 2020 @04:41PM (#24521684)
still guilty of murder - so much for subtlety…

Again: Although there were a parliamentary investigations, there was no crime. No conviction, no indictment, no charges pressed.

300M € was what was spent on all external consultancies combined. The yearly Bundeswehr budget is 42 bln € [1]. 300M is < 1%.

In 2018, the big four (KPMG, PwC, EY and Deloitte) extracted 650M € from the 30 DAX companies alone. And that is just the auditor segment. This doesn't include the strategic consultancies, IT consultancies or Headhunters.

And it also doesn't include the consultancy subsidiaries of said DAX companies. Speaking of subsidiary consultancies: 2/3 of said 300M € "embazzled Bundeswehr money" were spent on it's own consultancy BDI.

This whole "Affair" just resides on general public resentment of the word "consultant" and the public's inability and unwillingness to calculate or research these numbers themself. Especially as soon as there is a "smoking gun" to find by focusing all efforts on looking the other way, which allows us to create a hoax like this.

[1] German: "Milliarde"

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by codethief on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @06:30AM (#24565280)
> In 2018, the big four (KPMG, PwC, EY and Deloitte) extracted 650M € from the 30 DAX companies alone

Compared to 650M € and 30 DAX companies, 300M € spent by one single "company" do not sound like peanuts, especially since AFAIK the latter money was only meant for IT services & infrastructure(?)

> 2/3 of said 300M € "embazzled Bundeswehr money" were spent on it's own consultancy BDI.

I suppose you meant BWI, as in https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/BWI_GmbH ?

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by woodpanel on Friday September 18, 2020 @04:50PM (#24521757)
Yes (See my explanation in another answer).

I also like to point out that of those political groups that were screaming foul the loudest with regards to the "consultant affair", these were the groups with the least interest in or sympathy to the German military.

Which is adding insult to injury because the whole reason the Bundeswehr has to hike its expenditures on consultants at all is because policies of the last decades, specifically of those groups, left the Bundeswehr one of the least attractive employers in the whole country, especially for seeked after talent.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by fakedang on Thursday September 17, 2020 @07:24PM (#24511179)
What's more pathetic is that even after such high government expenditures in defence, Germany still lags behind most smaller nations in terms of the size of its army as well as the technological capabilities. So clearly she hasn't done a good job, yet she's been rewarded with the presidency of the EU, which is corruption in itself.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by woodpanel on Friday September 18, 2020 @05:14PM (#24521933)
What's more pathetic is…

I'm sorry, the cost/performance ratio makes complete sense.

The Bundeswehr is culturally frowned upon in large parts of our society since at least the 1970s so it is no wonder that policies enacted breathe that spirit.

Thus we are a country whose military openly admits it can't defend the country. For a couple of years now. There is close to zero outcry about that, certainly less outcry than the "Berateraffaire" got.

So clearly she hasn't done a good job

Not saying she did in general, but blaming an army depleted and frowned upon for decades on her six years as Secretary of Defense (SoD) is deceitful (not saying that you do).

On the contrary: Turning this shipwreck around affords even more expenditures. So expect the cost/performance ratio to become even worse.

she's been rewarded with the presidency of the EU, which is corruption in itself.

Since von der Leyen clearly hasn't proved herself to be included in the realms of sinister masterminds (she got ousted from her SoD job for a non-scandal) the curruption-part lies within the EU itself, for nullifing an election result, and how they've chosen her.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by _Microft on Thursday September 17, 2020 @09:56AM (#24504642)
I'm german and it's the first time I hear someone calling her corrupt or nepotistic.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by fxtentacle on Thursday September 17, 2020 @10:55AM (#24505360)
I'm surprised. I thought by now it was common knowledge that the corruptible involving her son and other more distant family members has cost the taxpayers 100+ millions.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by lippel82 on Thursday September 17, 2020 @11:41AM (#24505998)
What did her son have to do with anything? And quite frankly, even though the optics were probably not very good, I don't know of any corruption on the part of Ursula von der Leyen that was conclusively shown.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by fxtentacle on Thursday September 17, 2020 @01:22PM (#24507336)
She hired the company where her son was working using taxpayer money. And then that company paid commission for it to her son. So she indirectly paid taxpayer money to her son.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by lippel82 on Thursday September 17, 2020 @01:28PM (#24507416)
Her son worked in the silicon valley office in a very junior position at the time. That's very far removed from the German public sector consulting. And where did you get that bit about commissions? I'm pretty sure that McKinsey doesn't pay any commissions whatsoever to junior consultants.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by LargoLasskhyfv on Thursday September 17, 2020 @02:37PM (#24508341)
It's called networking.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by jariel on Thursday September 17, 2020 @03:34PM (#24508948)
This isn't remotely an example of corruption unless there is a direct conflict of interest.

If she hired her son directly, or as part of the team, if he was lobbying her, then it's a problem.

But if her son worked at IBM and she, as Defence Minister hired IBM for some defence contract, then it's irrelevant.

Edit: I should be clear, among the elite, specifically if there are central groups which exist especially within EU nations, and also 'bubbles' in the US i.e. Valley, Hollywood, NY Finance etc. it's very common for 'big contracts' to go to so-and-so, and as a 'favour' the so-and-so takes on 'sufficiently credentialed son/daughter'. For example, if you're the top Defence bureaucrat and you hire 'Bain & Co.' to do a procurement analysis ... well ... you're son with a newly minted MBA might find it much easier to get hired there. While this kind of 'soft nepotism' is arguably problematic, it's also not so bad. It's when the 'wife, niece and grandson of the French President' have 'fully paid positions in the bureaucracy' for which they literally do nothing, or when the PM hires his college buddy's law firm for a $100M boondoggle that it gets worse.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by fakedang on Thursday September 17, 2020 @07:29PM (#24511213)
Interestingly there was a similar case in Saudi Arabia a few years back, where McKinsey hired the sons of bureaucrats in Aramco and other government departments in exchange for all the lucrative consulting contracts. Goldman Sachs did the same with 1MDB and Libya and were caught. It's an open secret now that giving the kids the jobs is a foolproof route to getting contracts.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by jariel on Thursday September 17, 2020 @09:39PM (#24512056)
People are misunderstanding the nature of this stuff.

This is not corruption, it's just favours.

Nobody is awarding a major contract to get their kid an associate job at McKinsey.

The contract is awarded to McKinsey, if the person holding the purse has someone looking to get into such a role, then it's a nice thing that McKinsey can do in return.

My mother was a director of customer service and used to hire all of my friends in high school ... because they were my friends. It's normal.

It's technically not very above bar, but it's not necessarily corrupt. Most people get jobs through their networks, this is 'kind of' that.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by fakedang on Friday September 18, 2020 @03:21AM (#24513891)
Except McKinsey didn't hire them after getting the contracts, but before, which clearly positions it to get many contracts. A few years back, it was clear as day that most of the govt business went to McKinsey in the Middle East, while BCG and Bain often received scraps.

Relevant article: https://www.wsj.com/articles/in-growing-saudi-business-mckin...

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by jariel on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:03AM (#24515626)
It's nothing. McKinsey is a huge outfit, hiring 8 analysts is nothing. In fact it will help McKinsey more than anyone else as it would help them develop closer relationships with House of Saud.

The Saudi government is not giving McKinsey huge contracts because so and so's kid got hired there - point blank.

Also remember these kids are already stinking rich they don't even need to work.

And it's also a part of the world where business is done on the basis of relationships.

When a firm is giving Ferraris as 'kickbacks' then it's corruption but not this.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by fakedang on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:11AM (#24516287)
My oh my do you have a very narrow interpretation of corruption.

Hiring less than capable individuals while excluding more capable individuals, for the sake of obtaining contracts, in a region where ministers are changed on a regular basis (hence no guarantees of the connections staying forever) is exactly what I'd call a kickback.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by alexott on Thursday September 17, 2020 @04:42PM (#24509724)
Nobody was fired for buying IBM...
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by DoctorOetker on Thursday September 17, 2020 @06:08PM (#24510579)
both your examples and the parent claim that commission went to the son sound like textbook corruption to me!
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by imtringued on Friday September 18, 2020 @05:31AM (#24514727)
That's not the problem. The problem is that if you are IBM or Microsoft you better hire Ursula's sons to get contracts. How much money her sons receive is irrelevant.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by WanderPanda on Thursday September 17, 2020 @12:17PM (#24506507)
Yeah you don‘t know of any, because the evidence on her phone was „accidentally“ lost...
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by danmaz74 on Thursday September 17, 2020 @01:27PM (#24507399)
I've got no idea about her being corrupted or not, but for sure citing "common knowledge" doesn't prove anything.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by joes_hk on Thursday September 17, 2020 @10:43AM (#24505219)
Maybe you have heard of the "Berateraffären". It's almost funny how they pulled it off without getting into legal trouble.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by _Microft on Thursday September 17, 2020 @10:59AM (#24505423)
OK, thanks. I had heard about her wiped mobilphone before but didn't know what the issue was about.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursula_von_der_Leyen#Berater-A...

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by orbifold on Thursday September 17, 2020 @10:32AM (#24505084)
She did a bunch of pretty corrupt stuff while defense minister. She pushed for internet censorship.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by addicted on Thursday September 17, 2020 @01:41PM (#24507572)
I strongly disagree with internet censorship, but how is that "corrupt"?

Pushing for something that may be objectively terrible and is agreed by everybody is objectively terrible, may be terrible, but it is still not corrupt.

Words have meanings, and for that to be corrupt it would also require that the person pushing for it was doing so not because they believed it was the right thing to do, but because they were doing it for nefarious reasons such as having been bribed, or only because it would personally enrich themselves.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by zepearl on Thursday September 17, 2020 @11:46AM (#24506057)
Initially, 10 million euros were estimated for the repair work. During the work that had started, further damage was found in the Elsflether shipyard in January 2016, whereupon a construction freeze was imposed in October 2016 and an economic feasibility study was instructed. On January 26, 2017, Defense Minister Ursula von der Leyen finally decided to continue the repair work, the cost of which has now been estimated at 75 million euros. According to the shipyard in March 2018, the costs could rise to 135 million euros and the overhaul could take until mid-2019. [8th]

https://translate.google.com/translate?um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&c...

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by fakedang on Thursday September 17, 2020 @07:26PM (#24511195)
I'm surprised. I'm a foreigner in Germany with a ton of CDU supporters in my SO's family, yet somehow it's pretty open knowledge that Ursula is a paragon of EU corruption and nepotism.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by Roritharr on Thursday September 17, 2020 @10:45AM (#24505239)
Never heard the term "Berater-Affäre"?
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by usr1106 on Thursday September 17, 2020 @12:06PM (#24506346)
I guess nobody who does not speak German can understand or use such term. I'd translate it with consultantgate, but then I am not a native speaker of English. I don't think European media is integrated enough that there would be a term well understood in all EU countries.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by ricohboy on Thursday September 17, 2020 @07:04PM (#24511015)
Literally "consultant affair" so consultant-gate isn't a bad translation
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by alternatetwo on Thursday September 17, 2020 @10:15PM (#24512274)
Apart from what the others mentioned, search for Zensursula. She once wanted to censor our Internet because "of the children" ... 10 years ago. How time flies.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by rurban on Friday September 18, 2020 @02:04PM (#24519949)
Because then you only consume German media, which is equally corrupt. Pure government mouthpieces. Non German media is more informed on German malpractices.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by skocznymroczny on Thursday September 17, 2020 @09:06AM (#24504107)
Conservative doesn't really mean much anymore on its own. CDU might be considered conservative by Western European standards, but it's liberal by Eastern European standards.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by enaaem on Thursday September 17, 2020 @09:29AM (#24504338)
A lot of political labels have a different, often opposite, meaning in Europe compared to the US. A liberal in Europe refers to classical liberalism. We also have many political parties, so a liberal here is not necessary a christian conservative. Politics is more nuanced.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by vinay427 on Thursday September 17, 2020 @10:48AM (#24505273)
Did you reply to the right comment? What do US political designations have to do with European and EU politics? In any case, "a lot of political labels" implies several, and I'm not sure there are more than one or two that fit this description.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by sangnoir on Thursday September 17, 2020 @11:13AM (#24505616)
GP had cast "conservative" and "liberal" as mutually exclusive descriptions of the political spectrum: parent clarified that in Europe, those 2 terms mean the same thing. Mostly.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by cygx on Thursday September 17, 2020 @09:31PM (#24512015)
Probably closer to 'libertarian' in US parlance (laissez-faire economics, small government).
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by pbhjpbhj on Thursday September 17, 2020 @02:09PM (#24507969)
>" a liberal here is not necessary a christian conservative" //

They're pretty much opposite sides of the political spectrum in UK. Where are they anything other than that?

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by username90 on Friday September 18, 2020 @04:53AM (#24514493)
Liberal economic policies means low taxes, so in Sweden they are a right wing party. Why would they be anything but right wing?

Basically the most liberal party is for low taxes, for diversity and for secularism. If you want high taxes then you aren't a liberal.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by wongarsu on Friday September 18, 2020 @06:41AM (#24515096)
In Germany the liberal party is the FDP, who are seen as centric (so between left and right). The left wants your taxes for social programs, the right wants your taxes for security, the FDP just wants lower taxes (but achieved by reducing bureaucracy and overheads, not by running a deficit like the US's political right).
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by skocznymroczny on Friday September 18, 2020 @03:06AM (#24513793)
I disagree. Perhaps it meant so in the past, but nowadays most commentators in Europe use liberal and left-wing almost interchangeably.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by username90 on Friday September 18, 2020 @04:51AM (#24514479)
Do they? Are you talking about UK? They don't do so in Sweden at least. UK is quite different from the rest of Europe on many points so they don't really count.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by lumost on Thursday September 17, 2020 @09:35AM (#24504407)
Are there any major pan-european parties? (that are taken seriously)
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by david_arcos on Thursday September 17, 2020 @10:25AM (#24504999)
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by read_if_gay_ on Thursday September 17, 2020 @12:57PM (#24507032)
> that are taken seriously
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by kazen44 on Thursday September 17, 2020 @01:39PM (#24507556)
the pirate party is actually seen as a serious political party in both european aswell as local/national politics.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by cabalamat on Thursday September 17, 2020 @04:55PM (#24509840)
The Pirates came 3rd in Czechia with 14% of the vote last year.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_European_Parliament_elect...

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by read_if_gay_ on Thursday September 17, 2020 @01:51PM (#24507712)
That’s true. I was half joking because public opinion might differ.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by chki on Thursday September 17, 2020 @11:52AM (#24506143)
Volt comes to mind but they are relatively new and only have one parliamentarian in the EP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volt_Europa?wprov=sfla1
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by antientropic on Thursday September 17, 2020 @10:15AM (#24504877)
Sort of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_political_party

However they're primarily just groupings of like-minded national parties.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by M2Ys4U on Thursday September 17, 2020 @06:52PM (#24510931)
I guess it depends on your definition of "political party".

The EU has what's called a "political party at European level", there are 10 of these registered and a few more that don't meet the criteria to register.[0]

Most of these parties - and in particular the biggest two, the EPP[1] and PES[2] - don't allow individuals to become members.

Instead their members are political parties at national and regional parties that already exist in the member states.

One or two of the other parties are built around member states' parties, but also offer individual membership. ALDE,[3] the third-largest party, is one that does.

There are a few more parties that are active but don't meet the criteria to register.

The Pirate Party,[4] already mentioned by others, is one, but that too is a party-of-parties.

Volt Europa[5] is probably the only serious attempt at creating Europarty that is comprised predominantly of individuals, although even they allow for national-level parties as members in their statutes.

What can make things slightly confusing is that in the European Parliament MEPs don't actually formally sit as parties, but rather as political groups, of which there are 7. There are MEPs that don't sit in a group, but these tend to be more fringe parliamentarians, typically on the far-right.

The EPP and PES are big enough to have groups (EPP and S&D, respectively) that are more or less coterminous with their parties, but the other parties work together.

The European Greens sit with the European Free Alliance[6] along with the Pirate Party and Volt Europa, for example.

----------

[0] Regulation 1141/2014 [7] lays down the requirements. Amongst the details of the legal restrictions that have to be adhered to is the requirement to have elected representatives, or achieve 3% in European Parliament elections, in at least 1/4 of the member states.

[1] The European People's Party (EPP), this is the party of both the current Commission President and Merkel: https://www.epp.eu/

[2] The Party of European Socialists: https://www.pes.eu/en/

[3] https://www.aldeparty.eu/

[4] https://european-pirateparty.eu/

[5] https://www.volteuropa.org/

[6] These are mostly sub-national regionalist and/or separatist parties. https://www.e-f-a.org/

[7] https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32...

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by mschuster91 on Thursday September 17, 2020 @09:39AM (#24504448)
> CDU might be considered conservative by Western European standards, but it's liberal by Eastern European standards.

Which is mostly a result of Eastern European countries turning outright fascist (Hungary) or religious-authoritarian (Poland), it's a classic game of shifting goalposts.

CDU also was modernized by Merkel after the right-wing conservatives got booted off/sidetracked in the early '00s following a massive donation / tax scandal ("Schreiber-Spendenaffäre") and so the CDU still enjoyed wide popularity as a result, while the Eastern European conservatives never had that push.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by Woodi on Friday September 18, 2020 @02:11AM (#24513465)
>> CDU might be considered conservative by Western European >> standards, but it's liberal by Eastern European standards.

> Which is mostly a result of Eastern European countries > turning outright fascist (Hungary) or religious- > authoritarian (Poland), it's a classic game of shifting > goalposts.

You are seriously wrong aka naive or intentionally missing truth.

a) current Hungary and Poland ruling parties just trying to make their countries strong, finish with some colonialism-like practices. Nothing fashist or autoritarism here. b) liberal and socialist (ex commies hire) disqualificate themselves via scams and -gates, stupidity and not doing ANYTHING for their own ppls.

You should better start to be concern about democracy in France (military state by now), Germany (censorship) and Espana (country suicide).

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by krageon on Thursday September 17, 2020 @10:02AM (#24504717)
That's more a reflection on how incredibly broken Eastern Europe is. Definitely not a stick to measure anything by. Just like how we do not measure political leaning by US standards (spoiler alert: everything is left wing).
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by 9HZZRfNlpR on Thursday September 17, 2020 @04:58PM (#24509877)
Social issues are definetly not, every single country in Europe would cringe on Californian liberals and think they were high on something. Don't agree with that what so all.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by iterativ on Thursday September 17, 2020 @12:15PM (#24506482)
They want more or less government spending ? They accept that the structure of the family will change ? Example, families with more than two parents (that is a real possibility due to overpopulation). They want less or more police ? Reform the prison system (even dissolve it), maybe ? What are their views on immigration ? Multiculturalism ? Should we tax the wealthy more or less ?

Of course, there are different political ideologies. It's not just a popularity contest.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by thefounder on Thursday September 17, 2020 @01:26PM (#24507381)
>> Example, families with more than two parents (that is a real possibility due to overpopulation)"

For some reasons I thought Europe has an aging population issue and demographic decline not overpopulation.

>> families with more than two parents

I never heard of this unless you consider divorced people.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by Perseids on Thursday September 17, 2020 @02:02PM (#24507877)
>> families with more than two parents

> I never heard of this unless you consider divorced people.

Look for articles concerning co-parenting, that's where its most often discussed. Wikipedia: "Co-parenting is an enterprise undertaken by two or more adults who together take on the socialization, care, and upbringing of children for whom they share equal responsibility[1] Co-parents may include a variety of configurations, including a mother and a father, two mothers, two fathers, a parent with an adult sibling or grandparent, or a parent and another adult relative. The co-parent relationship differs from an intimate relationship between adults in that it focuses solely on the child."

The other typical configuration would be in polyamorous relationships, when more than two of the partners decide to take responsibility of the child. Granted "typical" is a bit of a difficult word when we're talking about niche concepts. Most of my friends and coworkers have never heard about co-parenting or any other of the more diverse and sometimes complex family-alike structures, unless they concern failed relationships (see divorces). Which is kind of a bummer, that only failure in previous relationships motivates them to experiment with other concepts.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by thefounder on Thursday September 17, 2020 @03:22PM (#24508816)
>> Most of my friends and coworkers have never heard about co-parenting or any other of the more diverse and sometimes complex family-alike structures.

I don't think it's worth to mangle obscure/exotic issues with mainstream subjects (overpopulation).

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by ClumsyPilot on Thursday September 17, 2020 @12:41PM (#24506827)
> "They accept that the structure of the family will change ? Example, families with more than two parents (that is a real possibility due to overpopulation)"

What does this mean? How is alleged population related to family structure and sexual relations?

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by Perseids on Thursday September 17, 2020 @02:27PM (#24508229)
I think grandparent was alluding to a separation of the two concepts of sexual relations and family structure: (Two or more) People can decide to bring up a child together without being in a romantic/sexual relationship. (Two or more) People can be in a romantic and/or sexual relationship without sharing responsibility of a child of one of the partners. Under this prerequisite, a family is any close social connection surrounding children (and the closeness and type of closeness being the linchpin of whether the term applies – not every flat share is a family for instance).

Regarding overpopulation: One motivation that I've heard quite often is that one of the most effective ways to reduce your carbon footprint is to have one child less. This is always presented with the asterisk that this is of course a very personal decision and there is the understanding that this is not a standard under which you will be measured. Still, if you're just looking at the numbers, that's what you get. Sharing parentage with more than two people is an alluring way to achieve the same result, especially as it means you will retain more of your personal time when child care is shouldered by three (or more) people.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by xamolxix on Thursday September 17, 2020 @09:26AM (#24504316)
> That she is on the position is testament to the democratic dysfunction of the Union.

I know almost nothing about her but my impression of the actual decision making in the EU is that it's fairly distributed (by design) and there is not a single person which has the power to do anything on their own. Also there are lots of opportunities for various stakeholders to veto decisions.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by ginko on Thursday September 17, 2020 @08:54AM (#24503985)
>Yes, some Europeans might think she looks sympathetic

Are we talking about the same Ursula von der Leyen?

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by trumpeta on Thursday September 17, 2020 @09:35AM (#24504409)
I found her sympathetic based on her statements about protection of democratic values in Poland and standing up for oppressed minorities in Asia. I haven't yet seen her bad side I guess.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by zoobab on Thursday September 17, 2020 @09:53AM (#24504617)
The violation of the Rule of Law in Poland and Hungary is exactly what it is about here. We have a rogue administration (the EPO) which cannot be brought to court:

"4. UPCA is violating the “rule of law” (TFEU Art2), the EPO cannot be brought to court for maladministration"

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by jariel on Thursday September 17, 2020 @09:47AM (#24504549)
"That she is on the position is testament to the democratic dysfunction of the Union."

???

That she has her position is the most glaring evidence of 'democratic dysfunction'.

Nobody voted for her, she was unknown before the election. The very few people that voted in the EU elected voted for something else, after the election 'the true powers' decided to push the ostensible candidate aside, and behind closed doors without input from elected MEPs, Von der Leyen was chosen from relative obscurity (at least outside of Germany) - foisted on top to 500 Million electors, almost none of whom have ever even heard of her.

She was not vetted, she did no debates, there was no public coverage, there were no speeches, there was no published platform, there was no campaign agenda.

Just: "Here is your new leader, that you have never heard of , that you have just elected".

This is not democracy.

So perhaps if there were more transparency, or even some of it, you would have been able to vet her, and actually vote for or against her.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by Joeri on Thursday September 17, 2020 @01:29PM (#24507424)
Nonsense. Von der leyen was proposed by the council, consisting of representatives from every country, and by extension representative for the voters in every country. She was then confirmed by a majority of the EU parliament, which is directly elected by the citizens. Every EU citizen voted in those elections, or had the opportunity to. So, if only a “very few” voted that is on them. If their elected representatives did things they didn’t like (like confirming von der leyen), that is on them also, in the next parliamentary elections.

What you are complaining about is that she was elected by newly elected representatives, but not directly elected by citizens. I find this to be hairsplitting and meaningless in a context of representative democracy.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by jariel on Thursday September 17, 2020 @01:54PM (#24507759)
Far from 'hairsplitting and meaningless' the issue is at the very crux of 'democracy'.

That almost nobody voted in the election, that nobody knew who the leader - or the platform - was going to be, and that she was absolutely chosen after the fact, by unelected leaders, that she cannot be sanctioned or replaced, and that elected MEPs cannot propose legislation - is fundamental to the nature of democracy.

Even in proper democracies, particularly in Parliamentary systems, even the budget requires approval without which the government falls and elections are called. Why? Because the proposition of budgets necessitate popular sanction. Parliament - and even legislative assemblies can dissolve government if necessary.

Ursula von der Leyen has unambiguously the least democratic legitimacy of any leader in the free world, by far.

The fact that the EU was purposefully designed this way - in the very face of very healthy democratic institutions i.e. Switzerland, UK, Germany - implies the lack of democracy was very much 'by design'.

It's an existential issue.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by kazen44 on Thursday September 17, 2020 @01:41PM (#24507577)
also, in european politics, direct election of officials rarely happens. (unlike in american politics).

People usually vote for parties and the persons within them, not an individual.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by jariel on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:06AM (#24515644)
This isn't so important though. Canada UK are the same. You don't technically elect a Prime Minister.

But - the party, platforms, PM etc are very transparent, and elections are held on that basis.

If the Conservative Party of the UK ran with B. Johnson and Brexit, but then after the election decided to make some randome guy from Scotland - that nobody ever heard of - the Prime Minister, and said Scot made a 'Throne Speech' with some completely different agenda ...

...there would be a revoluion.

And of course PM has to be someone elected at their riding for good reason.

It's simply not good enough to say 'someone voted somewhere' so therefore 'it's democracy and we can do what we want'.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by nsajko on Thursday September 17, 2020 @04:35PM (#24509659)
You're oversimplifying to an absurd degree.

Consider Socialist Yugoslavia, the main difference between its electoral system and those of non-communist states was the amount of indirection involved.

Also, you ignored the second half of jariel's comment.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by ohthehugemanate on Thursday September 17, 2020 @11:14AM (#24505626)
The thing about the EU is, it's not a democratic government. It's atreaty organization that sometimes takes on responsibilities like a government.

This dual identity has been a boon in some political situations in the past, but it is also a serious liability. Von der Leyen got the job in a usual way for a treaty organization, but she is much more political than some technocrat. There are factions that like it each way, and her job is to play both ends against the middle.

You don't need a democratic mandate to appoint the head of a civil service. You definitely do when choosing the leader of the (de facto) government!

It is increasingly clear that we need a supranational organization in Europe which IS a democratic government. Seems like it would be a natural fit for the EU to be that organization... and it looks like it is headed in that direction. That means it's our role as citizens to push for more democratic behavior at every turn.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by kazen44 on Thursday September 17, 2020 @01:48PM (#24507680)
> The thing about the EU is, it's not a democratic government. It's atreaty organization that sometimes takes on responsibilities like a government.

what? This opinion seems to be highly uninformed about how the EU and it's actual bodies work. i can vote for EU elections and representatives in the european parlement. Also the european commision and the council consist of either parties elected in the national elections, or national leaders themselves. Also, the european parlement uses quantitative representation, which means smaller nations have a larger say compared to larger ones.

>This dual identity has been a boon in some political situations in the past, but it is also a serious liability. Von der Leyen got the job in a usual way for a treaty organization, but she is much more political than some technocrat. There are factions that like it each way, and her job is to play both ends against the middle.

What dual identity? The european community has had a parlement since the 70's, and the european project has been a political union since it's very beginning in the 50's. You seem to assume that van der leyen has vast political power on her own, but the EU is far to decentralized for that. The EU is is a complex political system because it is highly decentralised. (which in terms is happening because all it's members are sovereign).

>You don't need a democratic mandate to appoint the head of a civil service. You definitely do when choosing the leader of the (de facto) government!

This democratic process exists, as explained above. not having direct representation is not the issue here. The way of elections in the EU is roughly the same as what happens in most if not all EU member states. (with the exception of mainly the UK).

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by jariel on Thursday September 17, 2020 @02:00PM (#24507850)
"This opinion seems to be highly uninformed about how the EU and it's actual bodies work."

" the european commision and the council consist of either parties elected in the national elections"

For lambasting others as uninformed, you should check your facts first. The EU Commission is not made up of elected officials, moreover, the EU has no obligation whatsoever to follow the results of parliamentary elections.

The 'proportional' makeup of the assembly is irrelevant if they are mostly powerless - by far the most powerless legislative assembly in the free world.

" The way of elections in the EU is roughly the same as what happens in most if not all EU member states"

This is really not true. The leaders of various parties, their platforms etc. are all well known during the course of EU member state elections, moreover, EU member state legislative bodies have the power to sanction, remove the executive, and of course to actually legislate.

Edit: EU members states have some of the best and most representative democracies in the world, it's such a blatant contrast at the EU level, it's hard to forgive people for not seeing why things are the way they are.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by ohthehugemanate on Thursday September 17, 2020 @03:58PM (#24509227)
First of all, thank you for phrasing in such a constructive way with "seems to be". I really appreciate that about this community.

I'll try to clarify:

The EU in many ways does operate like a government, at least like a confederacy. It has a legislative process, a directly elected parliament, and a president. We get "state of the union" addresses, for crying out loud!

But its founding mission was as an independent third party to oversee coal and steal production. That kind of "referee" role between member states is central to how it is designed, and to much of its action.

Some notable dissimilarities to a democratic government:

- The EU has no constitution; it has treaties. - The EU has no sovereignty; limited powers flow upwards from individual member states. - The EU may only determine matters collectively which need to be determined collectively (principle of subsidiarity) - The only directly elected part of the EU (the EU Parliament) may not propose legislation. It gets to amend, improve, and approve/reject legislation proposed by the (unelected) EU Commission, to implement policy set by the European Council and its (unelected) president. - The "supreme executive" European Council is simply all the national leaders with an appointed head. That's the only source for new policy and leadership decisions. - The EU Commission - the partner body to the EU parliament, is a set of appointees from the EU Council, approved/rejected as a group by the parliament.

The idea behind the setup is to make it easier to propose and ratify multi-lateral treaties with many sides and fixed membership. The directly elected Parliament is a sanity check, not a source of legislation.

To use the US system as analogy because I can assume broad familiarity with it: - the executive branch is all the state governors. They appoint the President. - the senate is made of appointees from the executive branch, approved as a group by the congress. - the house of representatives is directly elected, and can only modify, approve, or reject legislation proposed by the senate.

It is not a controversial opinion to say it is a hybrid system. In fact, from the Wikipedia page on the EU:

"The EU operates through a hybrid system of supranational and intergovernmental decision-making,[132][133] and according to the principles of conferral (which says that it should act only within the limits of the competences conferred on it by the treaties) and of subsidiarity (which says that it should act only where an objective cannot be sufficiently achieved by the member states acting alone)."

"Constitutionally, the EU bears some resemblance to both a confederation and a federation, but has not formally defined itself as either... It is more integrated than a traditional confederation of states because the general level of government widely employs qualified majority voting in some decision-making among the member states... It is less integrated than a federal state because it is not a state in its own right."

Also, as evidenced by some of the other responses to my comment, my statement that we need a central political body is a controversial opinion.

Hope this helps. Thanks for the excuse for a Wikipedia dive! You may also be interested in this recent Economist article about some of the problems of the dichotomy: https://www.economist.com/europe/2020/09/03/the-contradictio...

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by jariel on Thursday September 17, 2020 @01:19PM (#24507300)
"It is increasingly clear that we need a supranational organization in Europe which IS a democratic government."

I don't think that's clear at all.

One could very much make the argument that it doesn't need 'governance' it needs 'coordination' which are very different things.

I feel the vast majority of the most important things could be achieved mostly by treaty and that everyone could 'have their cake and eat it' which is to say have fully sovereign states and work together.

I think there's quite a lot of a) ideology in the US of Europe b) it's the natural 'power creep' of any institution and c) the business class love to be able to 'skip democracy' and so do the 'socialist' types - both of whom kind of work in a weird kind of tolerance of one another, with I think the business class mostly in charge.

In particular, the hugely vague mandates on 'Human Rights' are the biggest coup, though the least obvious. They basically give a 'carte blanche' to the EU courts to rule as they see fit, interpreting some basic, bland text to mean whatever they want it to mean.

Since the EU courts often decide on their own jurisdiction ... it results in a huge concentration of legal power.

It's a Judicial takeover.

Something similar happened in Canada - not exactly on purpose - but when Trudeau Sr. introduced a new Constitution into Canada in the early 1980's - it was a 'nice modern document' but obviously vague. Since then, the Supreme Court of Canada has struck down innumerable old laws, new laws, they do it all the time, they even 'change their minds' on things like terminal care and suicide. Because of the vague wording, 'the world's top legal scholars and lawyers' have no clue what legislation is legal or not, it's just a matter of what our 'Tribal Council of Unelected Elders' decide to do. It's resulted in 'Law by Judicial Fiat' for a wide array of issues - all of the most important ones (identity, rights, marriage, abortion). Canadians, elected officials, politicians, the Prime Minister have little say in the matter ... except for this weird clause someone can effect which basically says a 'law is not bound by the constitution' - which is crazy in of itself.

The 'Human Rights' mandates of the EU are controversial for this reason: obviously, they are humane and positive i.e. a 'good thing' - but many people oppose them on the legal problems the effectively create. These people are easily lambasted in the press as 'anti human rights' which is of course completely wrong.

Europeans are quite smart, the lack of understanding of these things is really quite bothersome. People just seem to be happy to do whatever the elite tell them to do.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by nsajko on Thursday September 17, 2020 @04:55PM (#24509849)
Any law will, at some point at least, become to vague. On the other hand, I too have the perception that bills are often carelessly written and too vague[0], but I think your understanding of jurisprudence or what a judge's job should be is not realistic. The system is not meant to be mechanical.

I think that for meaningful discussion to be possible, you would have to provide a much more specific, concrete example; but that of course runs the risk of being beyond the understanding of us non-lawyers.

[0] Somebody on HN opined that this is because most politicians are lawyers, and they have an interest in preserving/increasing job opportunities for lawyers, or something like that. I wish I could find the comment.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by addicted on Thursday September 17, 2020 @01:43PM (#24507607)
That sounds like, parliamentary democracy?

I mean, how many regular people voted for Boris Johnson as PM, for example. The answer is exactly 0.

That's just how parliamentary democracy works.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by jariel on Thursday September 17, 2020 @02:32PM (#24508281)
No it's not 'like a parliamentary democracy' at all - the only 'resemblance' is that that there is some degree of 'representation'.

But the similarities end there.

You've actually provided a specific example - the most recent UK election, which highlights even further the lack of democracy in the EU, which is a 'confidence' election based on some important or existential issue, in that case, Brexit.

+ Voters were very well informed that Boris Johnson was to be the PM if a specific party were elected + They were very aware of the general platform of the parties + They were even more aware that the issue at the crux of the election was the type of resolution towards Brexit. + UK elected MPs have tremendous power - demonstrated in that very case: previous to the election, Boris Johnson faced a kind of censure by Parliament several times, MPs of all stripes voting for and against him. + The UK MPs collectively introduced legislation and forced the hand of government on several occasions. + The government was threatened with dissolution on several occasions, over a very important issue.

None of this happens in the EU, by design.

The EU is not a 'representative democracy' rather, it's a political entity which governs largely unto it's own devices - but in which some actions must have it's actions approved by elected officials.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by KingOfCoders on Thursday September 17, 2020 @09:54AM (#24504625)
The president of the comission is basically a civil service job.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by jariel on Thursday September 17, 2020 @10:23AM (#24504984)
I get what you mean, but it's a civil service with constitutional powers :). And it's designed to 'one day' be 'Presidential'.

Von der Leyen, in her first speech talked about her want to create the 'United States of Europe'. Not only does this hint at the Presidential nature of the role, but also points out the problematic issue with 'lack of democracy' in that voters were told after the election that their leader has a plan for 'existential transformation'. This is not what a bureaucrat does.

As a funny example: imagine waking up in Nov. 2016 and being told that the 'US state delegates' had not actually decided to go with 'Mitt Romney', the official candidate, but they 'changed their minds' and went with some 'outsider' from New York named 'Donald Trump'.

All of that said - the EU is actually more thoughtful about tech legislation than the US gov for sure - that said, the EU is for the most part making rules that ostensibly 'protect' them from outside parties, it would be a different story if MS, FB and G were HQ'd in London, Antwerp and Lisbon.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by KingOfCoders on Thursday September 17, 2020 @10:45AM (#24505234)
When 'one day' it's presedential it will be voted for by the European parliament.

This is what 'United States of Europe' means. The EU has been on a course to more democracy and more power for the parliament (e.g. Treaty of Lisbon), so I'm not sure why people assume this stops, argue that it is not happening or argue that it is reversing - when it is not - e.g. see GDPR.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by jariel on Thursday September 17, 2020 @11:03AM (#24505465)
This is essentially not true and misunderstanding of why the EU exists in the first place.

"When 'one day' it's presedential it will be voted for by the European parliament."

And who will propose and design the legislation?

The Executive!

Definitely not elected MEPs, because they are barred from doing so!

MEP's, in 2020 remain forbidden from initiating or enacting legislation. They have the bare minimum power to legitimize the institution as 'democratic'.

The EU is the only 'Constitutional Democratic' entity in the modern world wherein legislation is created and controlled at the executive level.

You might technically be correct in asserting that the MEPs have 'more power' after the Lisbon treaty, very little has changed, and there is no reason for them to change it.

Not until the Treaty of Lisbon were elected MEPs even required to be consulted (!!) for the selection of the executive! Constitutionally they were irrelevant. Only since the Lisbon treaty do MEPs technically have to be consulted, and even then, it's merely 'consultation'. It's not binding.

Never in the history of the world has power been given to the people unless they have basically 'forced' it, by using one lever of power or another.

The EU is very well designed by the elite to avoid populism and 'interference' by organized or populist plebes.

It's the perfect mechanism to have control and enact legislation with minimum of oversight, minimum of media coverage, minimum of procedural problems from the plebes.

The elite can argue, but only among themselves.

The EU has negative incentive to add more democratic oversight, because in their view, it just adds more problems and risk to the situation - god forbid a 'Donald Trump' should be elected in Europe.

The only way voters will get more power is if they take it, either through MEP insurrection, or, one or two state powers have some kind of reason to push for it. I don't think either of these cases is on the table, I can't even imagine a scenario will happen.

So if 'the entire history of civilization' is a guide, there will be net less democracy in Europe, as they give very little power to MEPs, and move more powers away from national assemblies towards the EU, where unelected bureaucrats and members of the inner circle can do 'what they think is best'.

And there's nothing anyone can do about it.

As for GDPR, yes, it was nice that MEPs could put up a fuss and have some parts of legislation changed, but they were not the shepherds of this legislation by any means, it was written and controlled 'from above' at all times.

FYI here is the original draft from 2012 [1]

[1] https://web.archive.org/web/20121203024154/http://ec.europa....

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by zoobab on Thursday September 17, 2020 @11:21AM (#24505720)
On EU democracy, maybe you need to write another chapter about the Council of Ministers.

In this particular file of the UPCA, Ministers have a direct conflict of interests, as their ministries would get money for the renewal fees of the Unitary Patent.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by blibble on Thursday September 17, 2020 @11:45AM (#24506046)
there's also the important point that once a law is passed, it's impossible for your elected representatives to remove it or even amend it

the entire project is about centralising executive power, which necessitates removing it from national legislatures

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by zoobab on Thursday September 17, 2020 @12:13PM (#24506448)
Yes, it will be impossible to change. It will prevent states from issuing national clarifications to patent law on software patents for example. And the European Parliament won't be the legislator on patent law, as the EU is not member of the EPC.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by blibble on Thursday September 17, 2020 @11:41AM (#24505991)
the 2019 election had proper televised political debates amongst the leaders of the euro parties

the council then ignored that completely and installed their own choice

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by secondcoming on Thursday September 17, 2020 @08:52AM (#24503963)
It only became apparent to me yesterday on another forum how much central Europeans, especially Germans, seem to quite dislike von der Leyen!
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by Semaphor on Thursday September 17, 2020 @08:57AM (#24504015)
She did a lot of dumb shit while we still had her in Germany.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by KingOfCoders on Thursday September 17, 2020 @09:20AM (#24504263)
Not a fan of her, but can you name 10 things ("lot of") that are "dumb shit" that she did?
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by KingOfCoders on Thursday September 17, 2020 @10:02AM (#24504712)
She did not "accidentally" erase her phone, it was someone else. The one she erased was not accidentally but on purpose (when there were no laws or guidance I erased also my phones before I got them back to my former employer, so we differe here on what "dumb shit" is).

So we have two, black lists for websites and spending millions on consultants while choosing Accenture and McKinsey instead of some other charlatans. The problem here is obviously not how the companies were chosen but that millions were given to consulting companies with no clue. I might add "throwing away a rather good gun" - others would debate this. So we might have three. Lots of? And I'd only really consider black lists as "dumb shit" but YMMV.

But we may vary on "lots of". If someone says "I have lots of beer at home" I would be rather dissapointed if in the end it were three beer (1.5 for each of us! ;-)

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by Semaphor on Thursday September 17, 2020 @11:26AM (#24505797)
She said and did several dumb to horrific things during her Zensursula time, I do not feel like dragging all the quotes out of the depth of 2009/10
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by diffeomorphism on Thursday September 17, 2020 @09:49AM (#24504563)
"zensursula" is quite well-known. "Accidently" erasing her phone and destroying files during an investigation. Several scandals and affairs in relation to the Bundeswehr.

Not ten, but these immediately come to mind.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by the-dude on Thursday September 17, 2020 @10:00AM (#24504690)
Didn't she lie about her education?
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by KingOfCoders on Thursday September 17, 2020 @10:03AM (#24504731)
The introduction of her PhD didn't contain enough footnotes.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by cygx on Thursday September 17, 2020 @09:18PM (#24511941)
Cf Wikipedia[1]: According to the investigation by the university, about 20% of her work suffered from missing or incorrect citations, including 3 'grave errors'.

However, there was no evidence of fraud, merely sloppiness, and she got to keep her 'Dr. med'.

[1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursula_von_der_Leyen#Plagiate_...

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by ricohboy on Thursday September 17, 2020 @07:06PM (#24511045)
Is Germany considered central Europe? I had always put them as Western, besides maybe the eastern most parts?
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by cygx on Thursday September 17, 2020 @09:26PM (#24511986)
Yes[1], but this can depend on context (eg Western vs Eastern Bloc).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Grossgliederung_Europas-e...

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by mtgx on Thursday September 17, 2020 @09:12AM (#24504175)
She only became president because Merkel forced the issue.

I think Frans Timmermans (an excellent option!) had a chance to win it before that, as well as Vestager (the antitrust champion in the previous EC). They gave Vestager the VP job to pacify her and her allies.

Also, somehow, Vera Jourova, which has been absolutely terrible in her job in the previous EC, especially with the terrible Privacy Shield she negotiated with the US gov (which has now been invalidated - again - by the CJEU) got the VP role, too, in the new EC.

Germans need to get rid of Merkel already. She's been terrible in the past 2 mandates, even doing stuff like protecting the coal industry as as well the diesel/gasoline car industry against new EU pollution norms. She also continued to push for new mass surveillance laws, even as the previous ones were being declared unconstitutional by the German courts.

I'm almost convinced the only reason she won again last time was because the US/global media kept propping her up as the "world's savior against Trump" - whatever that means. So I'm sure that had an effect at home, too, possibly giving her the edge. I know she was starting to be hated due to the all the local immigration issues prior to that.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by rusticpenn on Thursday September 17, 2020 @01:27PM (#24507397)
She was pushed out, so that she cannot succeed Merkel. She was promoted out of her target job.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by simcup on Thursday September 17, 2020 @01:42PM (#24507586)
Merkel was reelected because there was no feasible Alternative. She is a good politican with proper experience and Connections especially on the international stage, But her politics is as shit AS the rest. One of the reasons why right wing parties are on the up. Think of her as the equivalent to biden. The only thing she has going is that one can assume with certainty she is not gonna fuck shit up so hard, but there are certainly better ways. Fun fact: merkel actually announced she would not be up for re-election in 2021.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by LargoLasskhyfv on Thursday September 17, 2020 @02:34PM (#24508300)
Hauptsache Haare schön...äh Fönfrisur:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3cytC5i9k4