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Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by ctas on Thursday September 17, 2020 @09:17AM (#24504233)
I don't consider her being in the conservative party the actual problem.

In Germany she's well known for nepotism and corruptness, even if until this day she successfully evaded the punishment. Not long ago there's been a claim that her phone contains important evidence in support of the accusation, but it turned out that data on the phone had been "accidentally" wiped.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by KingOfCoders on Thursday September 17, 2020 @09:33AM (#24504386)
"In Germany she's well known for nepotism"

As a German this is not "well known" to me, do you have a source?

Until now I thought one Accenture manager was the godfather of a child of a deparment manager in the ministry of defence and Accenture got an consulting gig? I didn't know until now she was giving jobs to her relatives.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by turbinerneiter on Thursday September 17, 2020 @11:49AM (#24506099)
One of her kids works for one of the big consulting companies she loved to hire.

But more importantly, the people working for her on the government side were often super close to the consultants they hired. As the minister, she takes responsibility for what is going on in her ministry - and that was full of friends giving contracts to friends.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by lippel82 on Thursday September 17, 2020 @01:25PM (#24507372)
To be fair, her son worked in the silicon valley office in a very junior position at the time. That's very far removed from the German public sector consulting. She has seven well educated children, they have to work somewhere...
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by LargoLasskhyfv on Thursday September 17, 2020 @02:36PM (#24508321)
It's called networking.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by KingOfCoders on Thursday September 17, 2020 @01:49PM (#24507696)
Thanks.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by pantalaimon on Thursday September 17, 2020 @09:53AM (#24504604)
I still have a “Zensursula” T-Shirt from when she wanted to introduce Internet censorship because “think of the children”.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by KingOfCoders on Thursday September 17, 2020 @10:05AM (#24504757)
"Lots of"? Perhaps for coders ;-) 0,1,lotsof
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by xnyan on Thursday September 17, 2020 @09:49PM (#24512127)
Even as an undergraduate polisci major, in my European Union courses she was discussed. Here is an interesting anecdote about her: the institution that granted her equivalent of an MD (she’s still a physician) acknowledged that more than 40% of her thesis was plagiarized, however because telepathic analysis does not exist and this it is not possible prove that she intended in her mind to cheat as she was engaged in the act of cheating, her degree was not revoked. Sources in the article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursula_von_der_Leyen?wprov=sft...
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by dependsontheq on Friday September 18, 2020 @01:46AM (#24513361)
While I understand the discussion, in general Medical doctorates in Germany do not have the same standards as other PHDs. “Mouse dying after not being fed for a month” could actually be a real title, the problem for German doctors is that they more or less have to have the title.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by xnyan on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:15AM (#24516324)
If I recall, there's something like 3 "tiers" of physician depending on how long you were in school? It's interesting.

But anyway, I think the point is still a fair one. Major portions of her thesis were plagiarized. Even if it was an accident (I don't see how that would be possible), the least thesis should be revoked or all students should be allowed to plagiarize their theses as well.

Being part of a rich and powerful family does not make one bad, using that power to cheat and exploit sure does.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by woodpanel on Thursday September 17, 2020 @04:12PM (#24509392)
Being a consultant in Germany myself I can tell you that during the whole "Bundeswehr Berateraffäre" (an alledged scandal involving contracts given to consultancies when von der Leyen was Secretary of Defense), that at least all Blue Chip to Mid Cap Stock Index companies in Germany cringed in silence, as the 300M € von der Leyen supposedly embazzled look pathetic to the budgets these companies dump on consultants each year. One scrum team will easily go for 1.5-2M per year just for the non-managerial developer staff.

It was a classic non-scandal, with zero convictions or indictments in the end, in stark contrast to the attention it got in the media. Not surprising considering how German journalists tend to dislike conservatives in general and how my countrymen on average lack basic financial education.

Disclaimer: I never voted conservative (CDU) and never will, but as much as I don't like von der Leyen "she's well known for nepotism" is just unfair and untrue.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by codethief on Thursday September 17, 2020 @04:59PM (#24509886)
> the 300M € von der Leyen supposedly embazzled look pathetic to the budgets these companies dump on consultants each year

Are you saying that Blue Chip to Mid Cap Stock Index companies regularly spend > 1B on consulting?

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by johndrocky on Thursday September 17, 2020 @08:35PM (#24511681)
He might be referring to Germanys beacons of good corporate governance and not corruption; Deutschebank and Wirecard

Either way using relativism to minimise a crime is sophistry

"I murdered a few people - the US government kills thousands of people a year in <current war>" - you're still guilty of murder, even if someone is better at the crime than you are.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by woodpanel on Friday September 18, 2020 @04:41PM (#24521684)
still guilty of murder - so much for subtlety…

Again: Although there were a parliamentary investigations, there was no crime. No conviction, no indictment, no charges pressed.

300M € was what was spent on all external consultancies combined. The yearly Bundeswehr budget is 42 bln € [1]. 300M is < 1%.

In 2018, the big four (KPMG, PwC, EY and Deloitte) extracted 650M € from the 30 DAX companies alone. And that is just the auditor segment. This doesn't include the strategic consultancies, IT consultancies or Headhunters.

And it also doesn't include the consultancy subsidiaries of said DAX companies. Speaking of subsidiary consultancies: 2/3 of said 300M € "embazzled Bundeswehr money" were spent on it's own consultancy BDI.

This whole "Affair" just resides on general public resentment of the word "consultant" and the public's inability and unwillingness to calculate or research these numbers themself. Especially as soon as there is a "smoking gun" to find by focusing all efforts on looking the other way, which allows us to create a hoax like this.

[1] German: "Milliarde"

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by codethief on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @06:30AM (#24565280)
> In 2018, the big four (KPMG, PwC, EY and Deloitte) extracted 650M € from the 30 DAX companies alone

Compared to 650M € and 30 DAX companies, 300M € spent by one single "company" do not sound like peanuts, especially since AFAIK the latter money was only meant for IT services & infrastructure(?)

> 2/3 of said 300M € "embazzled Bundeswehr money" were spent on it's own consultancy BDI.

I suppose you meant BWI, as in https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/BWI_GmbH ?

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by woodpanel on Friday September 18, 2020 @04:50PM (#24521757)
Yes (See my explanation in another answer).

I also like to point out that of those political groups that were screaming foul the loudest with regards to the "consultant affair", these were the groups with the least interest in or sympathy to the German military.

Which is adding insult to injury because the whole reason the Bundeswehr has to hike its expenditures on consultants at all is because policies of the last decades, specifically of those groups, left the Bundeswehr one of the least attractive employers in the whole country, especially for seeked after talent.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by fakedang on Thursday September 17, 2020 @07:24PM (#24511179)
What's more pathetic is that even after such high government expenditures in defence, Germany still lags behind most smaller nations in terms of the size of its army as well as the technological capabilities. So clearly she hasn't done a good job, yet she's been rewarded with the presidency of the EU, which is corruption in itself.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by woodpanel on Friday September 18, 2020 @05:14PM (#24521933)
What's more pathetic is…

I'm sorry, the cost/performance ratio makes complete sense.

The Bundeswehr is culturally frowned upon in large parts of our society since at least the 1970s so it is no wonder that policies enacted breathe that spirit.

Thus we are a country whose military openly admits it can't defend the country. For a couple of years now. There is close to zero outcry about that, certainly less outcry than the "Berateraffaire" got.

So clearly she hasn't done a good job

Not saying she did in general, but blaming an army depleted and frowned upon for decades on her six years as Secretary of Defense (SoD) is deceitful (not saying that you do).

On the contrary: Turning this shipwreck around affords even more expenditures. So expect the cost/performance ratio to become even worse.

she's been rewarded with the presidency of the EU, which is corruption in itself.

Since von der Leyen clearly hasn't proved herself to be included in the realms of sinister masterminds (she got ousted from her SoD job for a non-scandal) the curruption-part lies within the EU itself, for nullifing an election result, and how they've chosen her.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by _Microft on Thursday September 17, 2020 @09:56AM (#24504642)
I'm german and it's the first time I hear someone calling her corrupt or nepotistic.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by fxtentacle on Thursday September 17, 2020 @10:55AM (#24505360)
I'm surprised. I thought by now it was common knowledge that the corruptible involving her son and other more distant family members has cost the taxpayers 100+ millions.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by lippel82 on Thursday September 17, 2020 @11:41AM (#24505998)
What did her son have to do with anything? And quite frankly, even though the optics were probably not very good, I don't know of any corruption on the part of Ursula von der Leyen that was conclusively shown.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by fxtentacle on Thursday September 17, 2020 @01:22PM (#24507336)
She hired the company where her son was working using taxpayer money. And then that company paid commission for it to her son. So she indirectly paid taxpayer money to her son.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by lippel82 on Thursday September 17, 2020 @01:28PM (#24507416)
Her son worked in the silicon valley office in a very junior position at the time. That's very far removed from the German public sector consulting. And where did you get that bit about commissions? I'm pretty sure that McKinsey doesn't pay any commissions whatsoever to junior consultants.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by LargoLasskhyfv on Thursday September 17, 2020 @02:37PM (#24508341)
It's called networking.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by jariel on Thursday September 17, 2020 @03:34PM (#24508948)
This isn't remotely an example of corruption unless there is a direct conflict of interest.

If she hired her son directly, or as part of the team, if he was lobbying her, then it's a problem.

But if her son worked at IBM and she, as Defence Minister hired IBM for some defence contract, then it's irrelevant.

Edit: I should be clear, among the elite, specifically if there are central groups which exist especially within EU nations, and also 'bubbles' in the US i.e. Valley, Hollywood, NY Finance etc. it's very common for 'big contracts' to go to so-and-so, and as a 'favour' the so-and-so takes on 'sufficiently credentialed son/daughter'. For example, if you're the top Defence bureaucrat and you hire 'Bain & Co.' to do a procurement analysis ... well ... you're son with a newly minted MBA might find it much easier to get hired there. While this kind of 'soft nepotism' is arguably problematic, it's also not so bad. It's when the 'wife, niece and grandson of the French President' have 'fully paid positions in the bureaucracy' for which they literally do nothing, or when the PM hires his college buddy's law firm for a $100M boondoggle that it gets worse.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by fakedang on Thursday September 17, 2020 @07:29PM (#24511213)
Interestingly there was a similar case in Saudi Arabia a few years back, where McKinsey hired the sons of bureaucrats in Aramco and other government departments in exchange for all the lucrative consulting contracts. Goldman Sachs did the same with 1MDB and Libya and were caught. It's an open secret now that giving the kids the jobs is a foolproof route to getting contracts.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by jariel on Thursday September 17, 2020 @09:39PM (#24512056)
People are misunderstanding the nature of this stuff.

This is not corruption, it's just favours.

Nobody is awarding a major contract to get their kid an associate job at McKinsey.

The contract is awarded to McKinsey, if the person holding the purse has someone looking to get into such a role, then it's a nice thing that McKinsey can do in return.

My mother was a director of customer service and used to hire all of my friends in high school ... because they were my friends. It's normal.

It's technically not very above bar, but it's not necessarily corrupt. Most people get jobs through their networks, this is 'kind of' that.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by fakedang on Friday September 18, 2020 @03:21AM (#24513891)
Except McKinsey didn't hire them after getting the contracts, but before, which clearly positions it to get many contracts. A few years back, it was clear as day that most of the govt business went to McKinsey in the Middle East, while BCG and Bain often received scraps.

Relevant article: https://www.wsj.com/articles/in-growing-saudi-business-mckin...

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by jariel on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:03AM (#24515626)
It's nothing. McKinsey is a huge outfit, hiring 8 analysts is nothing. In fact it will help McKinsey more than anyone else as it would help them develop closer relationships with House of Saud.

The Saudi government is not giving McKinsey huge contracts because so and so's kid got hired there - point blank.

Also remember these kids are already stinking rich they don't even need to work.

And it's also a part of the world where business is done on the basis of relationships.

When a firm is giving Ferraris as 'kickbacks' then it's corruption but not this.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by fakedang on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:11AM (#24516287)
My oh my do you have a very narrow interpretation of corruption.

Hiring less than capable individuals while excluding more capable individuals, for the sake of obtaining contracts, in a region where ministers are changed on a regular basis (hence no guarantees of the connections staying forever) is exactly what I'd call a kickback.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by alexott on Thursday September 17, 2020 @04:42PM (#24509724)
Nobody was fired for buying IBM...
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by DoctorOetker on Thursday September 17, 2020 @06:08PM (#24510579)
both your examples and the parent claim that commission went to the son sound like textbook corruption to me!
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by imtringued on Friday September 18, 2020 @05:31AM (#24514727)
That's not the problem. The problem is that if you are IBM or Microsoft you better hire Ursula's sons to get contracts. How much money her sons receive is irrelevant.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by WanderPanda on Thursday September 17, 2020 @12:17PM (#24506507)
Yeah you don‘t know of any, because the evidence on her phone was „accidentally“ lost...
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by danmaz74 on Thursday September 17, 2020 @01:27PM (#24507399)
I've got no idea about her being corrupted or not, but for sure citing "common knowledge" doesn't prove anything.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by joes_hk on Thursday September 17, 2020 @10:43AM (#24505219)
Maybe you have heard of the "Berateraffären". It's almost funny how they pulled it off without getting into legal trouble.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by _Microft on Thursday September 17, 2020 @10:59AM (#24505423)
OK, thanks. I had heard about her wiped mobilphone before but didn't know what the issue was about.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursula_von_der_Leyen#Berater-A...

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by orbifold on Thursday September 17, 2020 @10:32AM (#24505084)
She did a bunch of pretty corrupt stuff while defense minister. She pushed for internet censorship.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by addicted on Thursday September 17, 2020 @01:41PM (#24507572)
I strongly disagree with internet censorship, but how is that "corrupt"?

Pushing for something that may be objectively terrible and is agreed by everybody is objectively terrible, may be terrible, but it is still not corrupt.

Words have meanings, and for that to be corrupt it would also require that the person pushing for it was doing so not because they believed it was the right thing to do, but because they were doing it for nefarious reasons such as having been bribed, or only because it would personally enrich themselves.

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by zepearl on Thursday September 17, 2020 @11:46AM (#24506057)
Initially, 10 million euros were estimated for the repair work. During the work that had started, further damage was found in the Elsflether shipyard in January 2016, whereupon a construction freeze was imposed in October 2016 and an economic feasibility study was instructed. On January 26, 2017, Defense Minister Ursula von der Leyen finally decided to continue the repair work, the cost of which has now been estimated at 75 million euros. According to the shipyard in March 2018, the costs could rise to 135 million euros and the overhaul could take until mid-2019. [8th]

https://translate.google.com/translate?um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&c...

Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by fakedang on Thursday September 17, 2020 @07:26PM (#24511195)
I'm surprised. I'm a foreigner in Germany with a ton of CDU supporters in my SO's family, yet somehow it's pretty open knowledge that Ursula is a paragon of EU corruption and nepotism.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by Roritharr on Thursday September 17, 2020 @10:45AM (#24505239)
Never heard the term "Berater-Affäre"?
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by usr1106 on Thursday September 17, 2020 @12:06PM (#24506346)
I guess nobody who does not speak German can understand or use such term. I'd translate it with consultantgate, but then I am not a native speaker of English. I don't think European media is integrated enough that there would be a term well understood in all EU countries.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by ricohboy on Thursday September 17, 2020 @07:04PM (#24511015)
Literally "consultant affair" so consultant-gate isn't a bad translation
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by alternatetwo on Thursday September 17, 2020 @10:15PM (#24512274)
Apart from what the others mentioned, search for Zensursula. She once wanted to censor our Internet because "of the children" ... 10 years ago. How time flies.
Re:Germany will violate international agreements with Unitar... by rurban on Friday September 18, 2020 @02:04PM (#24519949)
Because then you only consume German media, which is equally corrupt. Pure government mouthpieces. Non German media is more informed on German malpractices.