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Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by rahuldottech on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @01:39AM (#21760123)
That's a no from me. I am not a huge fan of emoji. Especially not in the cli or editor.

Emoji are hard to type on non-mobile platforms, and are difficult to search for in logs or files. Often they don't render properly. They're near impossible to deal with from the command-line.

Not to mention the accessibility issues.

I see no reason why these cannot be accomplished with tags/flairs such as [critical], [bug], etc. These would also make sense to those not familiar with the Gitmoji system.

Don't make stuff harder than it needs to be. Emoji look flashy, but that's about it. Please use good ol' plaintext.

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by Iv on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @03:09AM (#21760540)
> Please use good ol' plaintext

I want to emphasize on that. Why do programmers like plaintext, often to the point of wanting ASCII instead of unicode despite its international awesomeness?

That's because we are called when things break down in the machinery. Monospace ASCII may look boring, but it has a precious characteristic: there is (almost) 1-to-1 mapping between the inner representation of a character and its screen representation.

Most programming fonts make sure 1 l | i I all look different.

We make sure we can spot the difference between `'"

We know of the few remaining pitfalls, like space and tabs, \n and \r, the various escape characters, the infamous \0.

Even on that limited representation, there are many things to be careful of. And thing is: this representation is just the start of our work! all the rest hinge on that!

Unicode is full of invisible character, potential diacritics, similar-looking glyps, control character that can break the display in a lot of annoying ways.

We made a whole ASCII-based ecosystem because this mapping is precious in many debugging cases. Whatever one does in the (and I say that non-sarcastically) really wonderful and awesome world of unicode, remember that we are going to often only see it as a bunch of 0xF0 0x9F 0x92 0xA9 (<- ASCII rendition of the "pile of poo"" emoji).

Emoji are great to make some apps prettier, some chat concise, to add non verbal communication to online chat. They are not a tool to help developers' life.

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by GeneralMaximus on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @03:52AM (#21760723)
Only programmers from English-speaking countries like ASCII. There are millions of us living in other countries who are thankful that Unicode exists, and who are constantly annoyed that a some of our tools don't support it well enough.

As someone who grew up bilingual in a country where it's not uncommon for people to speak three or more languages, I hate the idea of being prevented from using one of the languages I speak while doing my job. Especially when I'm building products that eventually get translated into five or six different languages, all using different scripts.

This is one reason I prefer using GUI applications over CLI applications: Unicode support is terrible across terminals and CLI apps, while most of the commonly used GUI frameworks are okay.

If your app has no issues rendering हैकर न्यूज़ (Hacker News), then it should have no issues rendering Emoji. If your app cannot render that bit of Hindi text, then the problem is your app and not Unicode.

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by Iv on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @12:24PM (#21764612)
As a non-native English programmer, I disagree. I love ASCII despite it lacking many characters from my own language. Sometimes Instead of the Ç I expect, I'll get a Chinese character. What do you do then? Well you switch to an ASCII-only mode and debug the encoding by looking at the bytes. You go one level of abstraction lower than the unicode.

The ability to do that is precious.

> If your app has no issues rendering हैकर न्यूज़ (Hacker News), then it should have no issues rendering Emoji

First, that's not true. Many fonts have partial support or an app may have an issue with displaying mutli-colored glyphs. There are many possibilities for this partial failure.

> then the problem is your app and not Unicode.

Yes. Precisely. I don't think unicode or emojis are problematic per se. But they belong to a higher layer than the one a lot of (non-web) programmers spend their times in. Unicode support is HARD. ASCII support is easy. Making ASCII tools is easy and promises an ecosystem full of useful tools.

> This is one reason I prefer using GUI applications over CLI applications: Unicode support is terrible across terminals and CLI apps, while most of the commonly used GUI frameworks are okay.

And that's fine, but realize that by doing so, you depend on a layer that relies on an ASCII layer. Tools that require unicode can't be used there.

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by iaml on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @05:59AM (#21761351)
As a person from another country speaking not-english, I just switch all my devices to english nowadays.
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by reaperducer on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @11:56AM (#21764297)
I think this is more common than the HN crowd assumes.

As someone who develops multi-lingual web sites, I can say that the vast majority of the people who visit the sites and then request a language other than English still have their computer/browser configured for English.

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by Viliam1234 on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @06:54PM (#21768070)
Same here. At least when I get an error message, I can google for a solution. Good luck with localized messages.
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by kiney on Thursday December 12, 2019 @07:02AM (#21771116)
That's the main reason all my devices are set to english.
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by gear54rus on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @10:18AM (#21763152)
And imagine how much programming and debugging effort could be saved worldwide if everyone did as you and I do.
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by warent on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @11:18AM (#21763884)
This is completely absurd. English is my only language but I would never hope for something like this. We're not supposed to cater to the needs of our tools; we're supposed to make technology cater to our needs. Following your logic to its natural conclusion, think about how much programming and debugging effort could be saved worldwide if we just stopped using machines and their features altogether.
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by iaml on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @02:06PM (#21765672)
As a counterexample, when I open some lib's repo and see comments in code are non-english, I just close it and don't use the lib. Not because I'm a racist, mind you, but because it complicates trying to understand/modify it by unreasonable amount of time. When I'm working I have to deal with spec requirements in other languages too, which is also troublesome. I kinda agree with gp on this, things would be much, much simpler.
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by kiney on Thursday December 12, 2019 @07:05AM (#21771136)
Reminds me of the time when StarOffice became OpenOffice. As StarOffice was developed in germany all the comments where in german. This hindered development for several years when the project became more international before alls comments where translated by volunteers.
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by gear54rus on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @12:18PM (#21764551)
You learn the language to communicate with everyone else on the planet. Computers are tools for manipulating and transferring information so spend time learning their language. Instead of wasting colossal effort catering to needs of everyone let everyone spend some time learning the language of everyone else.
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by AstralStorm on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @04:03AM (#21760770)
Yes, also my problem is not understanding every language in the world and how to use a Chinese keyboard to type this in. (Yes, I know this is not, I'm being facetious. OP probably cannot use it either. If not, substitute 3-bulsik Korean.)

The one thing English has going for it is the ease of typing it on any keyboard everywhere. Romanizations are fine too. Heck, even Russian is a bit problematic. Much more CJK, Hebrew, Arabic and Indian languages.

Emoji are easier to type in.

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by GeneralMaximus on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @07:56AM (#21761940)
> The one thing English has going for it is the ease of typing it on any keyboard everywhere.

Is that an inherent property of English, or because we haven't invested enough effort into making non-English keyboards better?

Here's an interesting bit of data: ever since Google added support for Hindi in Google Assistant, it has become the second most used language used for voice search globally [1]. I don't know about other countries, but there's definitely a demand for non-English languages on computers in India.

> Romanizations are fine too.

No they're not. It implies you have knowledge of two separate languages, two separate writing systems, and the ability to convert between them. This is not always the case. People do write Romanized Hindi (and Tamil, Kannada, etc) in India, but that has more to do with the lack of native keyboards than anything else. With the rise of mobile devices, more people are writing Indian languages in their native scripts, thanks of the excellent work Google and Apple have done with their keyboards.

I'm as much a native English speaker as I am a Hindi speaker, and I'm entirely unwilling to accept a worse experience for either of these languages on my devices. Language is part of people's identities, and you can't really divorce language from script without losing something of its character in the process. People across the world have protested and rioted for their right to use their own languages. Governments are elected based on language issues. Supporting your target audience's primary language is part of your job as a good engineer, whether your target audience is non-tech people or other developers.

Where is this unwillingness to support multiple languages in software coming from, anyway?

[1] https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/internet/hindi-sec...

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by GuB-42 on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @10:07AM (#21763019)
> Is that an inherent property of English, or because we haven't invested enough effort into making non-English keyboards better?

It is an inherent property of English, at least in some way. English doesn't use diacritics or letters like the German "ß". It is the least common denominator of western languages.

AFAIK, languages that don't have English letters use an entirely different script, and considering that most programming languages, command lines, etc... use English, you need to be able to write English in addition to your native language.

English also have the interesting property that it is really simple to render, which makes it ideal for embedded software, low resolution screens, etc... Chinese a much too complicated, and even Hindi requires you to combine things.

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by big_chungus on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @09:19AM (#21762522)
> Is that [ease of typing it on any keyboard] an inherent property of English, or because we haven't invested enough effort into making non-English keyboards better?

Not of English inherently, more a feature of a language that uses a small set of symbols with many different combinations. The simplest and easiest approach is to give each button a symbol; it's also typically faster than typing on, say, some sort of touch-input keyboard. I agree that there is demand, but English still makes sense for development.

> People do write Romanized Hindi... in India, but that has more to do with the lack of native keyboards than anything else.

And I am stuck using SI units for science, even though I have a preference for American units. Compatibility is important, and as you just stated, people have adapted.

> Where is this unwillingness to support multiple languages in software coming from, anyway?

Immense difficulty for minimal return. About two months ago, and article was posted about just how difficult it can be: https://gankra.github.io/blah/text-hates-you/

Even if many programmers aren't dealing directly with the rendering, UI design is a huge pain. Coupled with the fact that many countries with languages more difficult to support have fewer users, it can be a simple business decision.

I can see why a consumer-friendly interface probably should have multi-lingual support (especially if it has a large, non-English user-base), but development tooling operates at a lower level where more computer-friendly representations are necessary. It also has to be able to all work together under the hood, which requires a common language. English ended up the lingua franca, partly because computers were developed largely in America and partly because English text happens to simply be easier to represent than other languages, at least for computers.

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by OJFord on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @09:38AM (#21762718)
Not to mention that transliterations aren't standardised (or rather, there are competing standards, and casually/colloquially people don't use any of them).

Even popular films released with Latin-alphabet names don't use the International Alphabet of Sanskrit Transliteration (IAST) for example.

It makes it hard as someone learning Hindi, because I might read or someone tells it's spelt 'k, u, l', but actually it's 'ka, la', i.e. kal or कल (yesterday/tomorrow) for example.

(And that's a common example, becauss IAST uses 'a' for inherent vowel, but many people write 'u', which is arguably often closer to the right sound if read as English, but that's probably not a high priority goal of IAST.)

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by brainwad on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @09:13AM (#21762474)
We're talking about programmers; they have to be able to type english words because almost every language uses english keywords and most command line tools use english, etc. Since everyone has to be able to type english words, why add new character sets to the requirements?
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by hwj on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @05:56AM (#21761330)
I'm not from an English-speaking country, but also like ASCII.

It works without setting $LANG, $LC_ALL, ':set enc=utf-8', 'use utf8' and who knows what else.

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by DagAgren on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @06:23AM (#21761483)
Ironically, you can't even write proper English in ASCII. It is missing many characters widely used in English text.
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by GrayShade on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @10:29AM (#21763292)
Amazon used to print my name with an HTML entity on the shipping labels.

Buggy software is buggy. Saying "who cares about accents?" only sweeps the problem under the rug.

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by ithkuil on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @08:13AM (#21762028)
Can you make a few examples?
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by tedunangst on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @08:25AM (#21762100)
I suppose emdash may count. Spellings like résumé or coöperate if you're fussy about that.
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by turdnagel on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @08:39AM (#21762194)
Though the New Yorker is an eminent institution, their usage is pretty uncommon. Definitely not “widely used.”
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by ithkuil on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @08:46AM (#21762235)
is "résumé" an English word?

EDIT: I guess then that also "café", "façade" and "señor" can retain their original spelling. The question is: where does it stop? will latin-1 suffice?

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by DagAgren on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @09:14AM (#21762490)
Latin-1 will definitely not suffice. And Unicode exists, and is near-universally supported and used. Just use it. It's ok. Really.
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by nkrisc on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @08:48AM (#21762244)
You most certainly can. a-z A-Z 0-9 and , . ? ! ; : - ' " ( ) should suffice in nearly all cases apart from anything hyper specialized. You could probably write the majority of all English literature with only those characters, and there's more characters I left off.

What other characters are "widely used" in English texts that are missing from ASCII

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by DagAgren on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @09:12AM (#21762470)
Accents and diacriticals are far from "hyper specialised", they are how many people are taught to write, and want to write.

And - is not a dash, it is a minus. It does not suffice as a replacement for a real en or em dash in a properly typeset text. This is also not "specialised", it is how English is correctly typeset.

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by nkrisc on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @09:24AM (#21762573)
And yet accents and diacritical marks are not widely used nor any longer exclusively "proper." You're fighting a losing battle. Language is changing underneath you, no matter how tightly you cling to it.
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by tuwtuwtuwtuw on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @12:42PM (#21764811)
What battle are you referring to? A large majority of the world's population is speaking languages containing characters outside of ASCII. ASCII has no relevant future.
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by nkrisc on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @03:56PM (#21766739)
But this subthread is specifically about ASCII and English. So you point, while valid and true, is not relevant to this specific subthread.

I respectfully suggest you read my posts in this subthread because I don't believe you have. Instead, you appear to have taken my comment on accents in English completely out of context.

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by tuwtuwtuwtuw on Thursday December 12, 2019 @12:04AM (#21769399)
I did read the thread. It was about the irony that ASCII doesn't even cover English. Then you start to talk about a loosing battle. Still unclear which battle. Are you referring to the evolution of the English language into a language only using ASCII? Because if so that's completely off topic for the thread.
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by zuppy on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @12:10PM (#21764454)
My name contains diacritics. Are you proposing that I should change my name? Because if so, that’s pretty condescending.
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by nkrisc on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @03:57PM (#21766751)
I can only think of no more than a few common English names that use diacritics, and most commonly drop them. Remember, this subthread spawned from discussing ASCII and English, not other languages.

I think you'd have to pretty deliberately misinterpret my comment about accents being uncommon in English to somehow think I was suggesting you change your name.

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by tedunangst on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @09:28AM (#21762612)
Source for claim many people are taught to use accents and diacriticals? Many people seem to have the opposite experience of being taught there are 26 unadorned letters in English.
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by chrisseaton on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @08:53AM (#21762282)
How do I write a letter to my fiancé?

What do I do when I want to take a break and go to a café?

How can I write about that cornerstone of English myth and legend, Bēowulf?

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by nkrisc on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @09:01AM (#21762354)
Perhaps ASCII itself is to blame, but in my experience the first two spellings you list are less widely used than "fiance" and "cafe", respectively.

I wouldn't base a paper on it, but (fiancé versus fiance): https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=fianc%C3%A9%2C...

café versus cafe: https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=caf%C3%A9%2Cca...

I argue "Bēowulf" is does not fall under "widely used." Even my high school version of it it was printed "Beowulf." I'm not claiming "ASCII contains all characters used at all in English," just refuting the claim that you can't "write proper English" with ASCII and that it is missing "widely used" characters.

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by tedunangst on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @09:20AM (#21762532)
Perhaps ſubſtitute a different letter.
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by DagAgren on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @09:27AM (#21762601)
Why, when we can use a proper encoding that actually contains the letters you want to use?
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by big_chungus on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @09:09AM (#21762435)
You write just like everyone normally writes, by dropping the accent. I only see such spellings when people are trying to convey some sort of sophistication, rather than in casual, day-to-day use.
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by nkrisc on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @09:13AM (#21762477)
Precisely. Even when writing by hand, where there are no character encoding limitations, I've never seen anyone add the accents to "fiance" or "cafe" or "resume" when writing in English.
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by chrisseaton on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @09:46AM (#21762783)
> I've never seen anyone add the accents to "fiance" or "cafe" or "resume" when writing in English.

We have café all the way from McDonalds up to Buckingham Palace.

https://www.mcdonalds.com/gb/en-gb/menu/mccafe.html

https://www.rct.uk/visit/the-state-rooms-buckingham-palace

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by spadros on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @12:04PM (#21764398)
"I only see such spellings when people are trying to convey some sort of sophistication"

McCafe and Buckingham Palace would want the "sophistication angle". Both spellings work obviously, but IMO (and the majority of English books) "cafe" is the "correct" spelling.

https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=caf%C3%A9%2Cca...

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by nkrisc on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @09:56AM (#21762884)
You've quoted me out of context. I was referring to handwriting. Besides, I would bet dropping the accent is more common than including it.
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by emilecantin on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @02:51PM (#21766070)
My first name is Émile. This is not some attempt at sophistication, it's just my name. It's kind of sad to see that even a simple accent like that is butchered by so many sites (I often see my name written as Ä©~mile)
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by big_chungus on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @03:45PM (#21766630)
Other languages figured out good compromises, e.g. Dostoyevsky is transliterated from Достоевский; the name of China's current dictator doesn't even render in my browser, but is transliterated to Jinping Xi. German passports have the German version for humans, and a standardized, transliterated version for computers. Gößmann becomes GOESSMANN. I see no reason why the same thing can't happen; just drop the accent from the E. Also, for some reason, my browser shows that E as having no accent, if you want an illustration of the problem.
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by iudqnolq on Monday December 16, 2019 @10:57PM (#21810374)
A nitpick: Xi is his last name, but Chinese names are generally transliterated in the Chinese order of LAST FIRST ("Xi Jinping"). If you do a verbatim Google search for "Jinping Xi" you'll get around 500 results.

If a Chinese person adopts an English name, they'll put it first, however. Eg "Jake Ma".

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by dpau on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @12:18PM (#21764555)
it's weird that when i search for "cafe dictionary" in google all the dictionaries except the Oxford Learner's Dictionary spell it as "café"
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by nkrisc on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @03:55PM (#21766735)
And most dictionaries have something to the effect of:

Variants: cafe

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by shantly on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @11:32AM (#21764056)
I'd be surprised if any one of the 500ish English-language books on my shelves could be typeset entirely in ASCII without some compromises. Most are just fiction, too, and few could be characterized as "hyper specialized".
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by GoblinSlayer on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @10:26AM (#21763263)
My system (windows 10) has no issues with Hindi, but doesn't always render emoji. That said, when Hindi started to exist and how many countries have emoji as an official language?
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by WalterBright on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @06:05AM (#21761378)
I was keying in my confirmation code into the self checkin machine to get my boarding pass the other day. The code was something like EFO123. Was that a letter or a digit? I got it wrong, fortunately the software said it interpreted 0 as O and gave me the ticket.

Now multiply this by a thousand with Unicode exact lookalike glyphs.

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by nicoburns on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @09:01AM (#21762356)
Emoji like those in this article don't have this issue though.
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by Iv on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @12:36PM (#21764756)
You can still have problems with them. They propose to ID a commit type by the first character.

Arabic is written from right to left. Which emoji is the first character of this sequence? It actually depends on the position of invisible LTR control characters.

علامة يمين-إلى-يسا

EDIT: BTW, HN does not support emojis apparently

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by knolax on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @06:20AM (#21761467)
I once had an issue where GTK-2 couldn't display any characters that were in ASCII/latin basic. It was down to Pango dropping support for the monospace font I used for that range of characters. In my opinion the most reliable part of your system is the part you put the most attention on. ASCII is only the most reliable if you choose to use it as the basis for your system and then ignore support for everything else.

Although I do agree the one character to one codepoint mapping of ASCII is useful, things like terminal escape codes already add a layer of complexity that makes it hard for me to imagine a scenario where you can't render U+1F4A9 but can still render things like ^[[31m found in almost every cli tool.

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by fbnlsr on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @03:32AM (#21760630)
Wait, I thought the goal of it is not to write emojis per se but rather use the shortcodes. That way, it's readable even when emojis cannot be rendered and it even makes search easier. So a typical commit message would read like that:

`:bug: Fix login modal`

It doesn't break anything and when interpreted (github, gitlab, gitkraken, etc...) it displays a nice looking emoji.

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by MivLives on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @09:11AM (#21762462)
This is how Slack and I believe Discord handle emojis as well. Interestingly even if you copy and paste a unicode emoji it's translated into a code.
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by bitcoinofficial on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @06:26AM (#21761502)
Doesn't 'fix' already mean there was a bug, that was 'fix'-ed?
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by fbnlsr on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @08:20AM (#21762066)
A better example would be:

`:lipstick: Revamp login modal`

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by Liquidor on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @06:37AM (#21761544)
> Doesn't 'fix' already mean there was a bug, that was 'fix'-ed?

Read this: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/3580013/should-i-use-pas...

TLDR from the Git repo: Describe your changes in imperative mood, e.g. "make xyzzy do frotz" instead of "[This patch] makes xyzzy do frotz" or "[I] changed xyzzy to do frotz", as if you are giving orders to the codebase to change its behavior.

People have different opinions on what tense to use, but the one that scales better would be in imperative mood. See example here: https://github.com/facebook/react

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by SifJar on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @08:27AM (#21762115)
I don't think this answers the question?
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by Liquidor on Thursday December 12, 2019 @07:24AM (#21771232)
How come? As I understand the comment, the user is questioning the tense of "fix" and I'm providing a reason and an example as to why someone would use imperative mood in their commit message.

Edit: Nevermind. I must have been tired yesterday. User wasn't questioning the tense, but pointing out that the part of the message "fix" making the :emoji: redundant.

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by kickopotomus on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @12:16PM (#21764518)
Agreed. I think this actually argues in favor of using a [fix] tag over [bug].
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by porker on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @02:17AM (#21760308)
> Emoji are hard to type on non-mobile platforms

On Windows they are easy: <Windows key> + .

Finding the right emoji is easier than on my Android phone as Windows lets me type the emoji name. Why emoji search is missing on Android... who knows.

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by ken on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @08:17AM (#21762044)
That still seems much harder to me. Instead of just adding "PERF" to my commit messages, and later grepping for "PERF", I have to pull up a separate window each time, and remember that performance changes are indicated by a lightning bolt.
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by setr on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @08:39AM (#21762188)
>remember that performance changes are indicated by a lightning bolt.

Tbh that's a very weak consideration, as it's ingrained through standardization throughout the codebase. And if this is for codebases you're not familiar with, then PERF is hardly gauranteed to.produce useful results (it certainly isn't standard in my own codebases).

Much more dangerous is people expanding on emoji-tagging with things like COLOR and similar VARIANTS, or an explosion of tags like being suggested in this article, making it even harder to use/memorize the system

But worst of all is that emoji are ugly and ruin the aesthetic of anything they come in contact with

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by galonk on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @02:19AM (#21760319)
Mac equivalent is Cmd + Ctrl + Space (Edit > Emoji and Symbols).
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by 0x073 on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @03:02AM (#21760509)
Depends on the keyboard you use, with gboard you can search for emojis.
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by porker on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @05:34AM (#21761215)
Ah thanks. I'm using SwiftKey Keyboard. I found I am faster typing with it than Gboard. Perhaps time to try again.
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by simendsjo on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @02:30AM (#21760379)
And it also contains lots of other symbols (non-emojis) easily accessible! How could I not know about this! Thanks.
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by rahuldottech on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @05:57AM (#21761337)
A decent chunk of programmers use GNU/Linux distros. Support is very lacking there.
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by DagAgren on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @06:25AM (#21761498)
"Programmers don't like this because Linux is shit" isn't a great argument against anything, really.
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by danShumway on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @10:05AM (#21762998)
Git is for programmers. What other demographic should we be caring about?

If I'm an Android dev, it might bother me that application suspend is deliberately mishandled on tons of lower-end devices to improve battery life. Should I just ignore those users? If I'm making an email client, it might bother me that Gmail's IMAP support is crap. Should I stop supporting Gmail in my client?

Tools make concessions for the platforms and environments that they'll run in. They always have, and they always will. You get to ignore platforms if you're comfortable saying, "my stuff isn't for the users of those platforms." But so many programmers are on Linux, it probably isn't feasible for most OS projects to ignore them.

None of that means that Linux shouldn't have better emoji support. It should. It's embarrassing that it doesn't. But, you have to deal with the world as it exists today.

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by spadros on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @12:17PM (#21764539)
"Programmers don't like this (shit) tool addition you wrote because it doesn't work with the existing (shit) programming tools" is a better paraphrase TBH.
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by DagAgren on Thursday December 12, 2019 @09:50AM (#21772240)
I mean, it works fine with my tools, I just choose not to use shit ones?
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by epse on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @06:45AM (#21761588)
While you are right, I don't think calling something shit is the best way to point that out
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by bluerobotcat on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @02:22AM (#21760338)
Cmd+Ctrl+Space brings up the emoji palette on MacOS. This palette is easy to use from the keyboard and works in the terminal too.

Some MacBooks famously also have a TouchBar that makes emoji easy to type.

I can't remember the last time I had issues rendering emoji, and I have no idea why they'd be difficult to search for or how they would pose any accessibility issues.

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by ken on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @08:26AM (#21762102)
That keyboard shortcut brings it up, unless you've already brought it up on a different workspace, in which case that shortcut does nothing (until you find the previous workspace where it was brought up, and dismiss it there).

I had no idea it was usable from the keyboard until I read this comment. There's a search box but it's invisible and hidden until you type blindly at a window that doesn't look like it accepts keys.

Terminal mostly supports emoji, but has many bugs. Some emoji, after being typed and deleted, don't properly restore the cursor to its original position.

ASCII may be ugly but works 100% of the time for me. I tried using emoji on macOS 10.14.5 Terminal just now and ran into every issue you said you don't encounter.

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by ShorsHammer on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @02:29AM (#21760376)
What should the other 87% of people do in the interest of fairness?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_syste...

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by whateveracct on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @03:00AM (#21760498)
It's also easy on Windows
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by AstralStorm on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @04:04AM (#21760777)
You mean Windows 10 newer than LTSB.
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by henrikeh on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @08:00AM (#21761968)
Where it hasn’t been disabled by their employer.
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by naniwaduni on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @11:18AM (#21763876)
For at least ~20% of them, use an input method editor which is just as capable of emitting emoji as true text!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_used_on_the_Internet

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by big_chungus on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @09:33AM (#21762671)
Except, that's not really "easy". I prefer typing with buttons, not having to pull up a picker and search for each character. As others have mentioned, I don't want to pull up some window to grep through a commit log; I work very quickly in the terminal, and this would be an awful interruption to my flow.
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by chrisseaton on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @07:53AM (#21761915)
> Please use good ol' plaintext

They are plaintext. They’re Unicode characters just like abc. There’s nothing special about them!

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by pbourke on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @10:31AM (#21763320)
What’s special is that they are inherently visual instead of symbolic. What happens when the culture shifts and :bug: is replaced by :pile-of-shit: ? We now must remember that 5 years ago, we used :bug: to mean software defect but after that one blog post we all use :pile-of-shit:?

It’s like the second derivative of the floppy-disk-means-save problem, but pushed into our terminals where despite their drawbacks things must generally have a relatively fixed meaning devoid of the context required to interpret purely visual signifiers.

If you mean that performance improved just write PERF instead of :lightning-bolt:

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by monknomo on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @11:44AM (#21764167)
What happens when the culture shifts and "bug" is used to mean "software defect" and "story" is used to mean "action item"?
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by chrisseaton on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @11:03AM (#21763704)
Just seems like any other language evolution to me?
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by oselhn on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @08:12AM (#21762022)
Exactly. Also I am pretty sure that every few months will someone find more appropriate symbol for each tag.
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by Razengan on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @10:43AM (#21763460)
> Emoji are hard to type on non-mobile platforms

On macOS, emojis are actually easier: Control+Command+Space in any text field, then type a word to filter/search the emoji list [0], or expand the popup to a full-blown Unicode browser [1].

[0] https://i.imgur.com/ZpAcIe3.png

[1] https://i.imgur.com/uN9fxmH.png

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by reaperducer on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @11:53AM (#21764269)
Emoji are hard to type on non-mobile platforms, and are difficult to search for in logs or files. Often they don't render properly. They're near impossible to deal with from the command-line.

While I agree that emoji shouldn't be used in git, it's worth noting that the limitations you point out are platform-specific, and not universal.

in macOS, emoji work very well in any app that chooses to allow them, including the terminal. Typing emoji is as simple as double-clicking on the character you want from the pane that pops down from the menu bar.

Linux may not have first-class support for emoji, and Windows may not have first-class support for emoji. But those are limitations of the operating systems, and not of the emoji, themselves.

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by mook on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @12:29PM (#21764679)
> Typing emoji is as simple as double-clicking on the character you want from the pane that pops down from the menu bar.

… Which means getting your hands off the keyboard. That is why I don't like being forced to type emoji; it requires a (physical) context switch.

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by greggman2 on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @10:53AM (#21763576)
They're hard to type? On Mac is Cmd-Ctrl-Space on Windows its Win-Period

I generally find those against emoji to be unintentionally racist since other cultures have been using various characters for decades if not longer

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by krageon on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @11:04AM (#21763722)
What about the conversation here has been racist in the way you imply? This is a strawman that came entirely from left field.
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by greggman2 on Thursday December 12, 2019 @08:36PM (#21778377)
Japanese culture has used symbols (not kanji, more like dingbats) for at least 20 years if not 30 to 35. They use them in business documents all the time. The most common are probably ●○◎■□▲△▼△. In fact like in the USA a generic name might be "Smith" in Japanese they often using 〇〇さん.

Further, they've been using emoji for the last 20 years. So telling them they can't is basically telling all of Japan they're 2nd class. Their standards and ways of communicating don't matter. Lots of programmers from cultures where emoji and symbols were not in common use dismiss them because in their culture they were not in common use just a few years ago but other cultures have been using them much much longer. As such, banning them is unintentionally racist.

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by derefr on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @11:28AM (#21764008)
I don’t know if “racist” is the right word for what the GP poster meant, but there’s certainly a concept of “complaining about something while ignorant of the fact that it isn’t a problem outside of your own particular culture.” Whatever the adjective for that is.

It’s the same property that applies to the people who, 20 years ago, initially argued for UTF-8 specifically because of how efficiently it encodes from-ASCII codepoints, ignoring that for most text in most languages on Earth, UTF-8 is less efficient than UTF-16. (Of course, UTF-8 won out anyway, but more because it’s easier to parse, auto-resynchronizing, not limited to the first 16 planes, and because we ended up inventing all sorts of XML/JSON-based document formats, like ePub and OfficeXML, that cause even documents in other languages to be mostly from-ASCII codepoints by weight.)

It’s also the relevant property for Americans who complain about large downloads for games, or who have cellphone service but don’t have data, and think “the world” needs solutions to these problems, when really, North American ISPs are uniquely horrible (to the point that a game developed excluding North America as a potential target market could probably do things we’d think of as “impossible” right now, like live-streaming mesh co-AR or something.)

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by ashkankiani on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @11:02AM (#21763693)
That last sentence just made me do a triple take...
Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by MisterTea on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @02:02PM (#21765635)
> I generally find those against emoji to be unintentionally racist since other cultures have been using various characters for decades if not longer

Sure. Some writing systems use singular glyphs to represent an entire word. We're not talking about those. We're talking about using using a picture of lipstick to represent updating UI and style files and other silly suggestions. I'm not sure how you confused the two.

Re:Gitmoji – Yay or Nay? by naringas on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @11:01AM (#21763681)
I wish I could do that on KDE plasma