News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by mike_d on Wednesday September 18, 2019 @07:29PM (#21011622)
"We are a startup that inherited a 15 year old website" was one of the things that resonated when I worked there.

Facebook is Alexa #5 in the US and has ~40,000 employees. Reddit is #6 and has ~500 employees. Twitter is #17 and has ~4,000 employees. (Numbers taken from quick Google searches)

They have some super talented engineers that work miracles with band aids and bubble gum.

Edit: Yes I understand not all employees work on everything. I was trying to give a sense of scale. Reddit is a tiny company with a massive website and no way to make money. If you have ideas - they are hiring.

Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by hu3 on Wednesday September 18, 2019 @07:39PM (#21011691)
Not really a miracle. Reddit software is magnitudes simpler than Facebook.

Not to mention the quality is often sub-par. For example, many hate their mobile app with a passion and search field could as well just not exist when I tried.

Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by JohnJamesRambo on Wednesday September 18, 2019 @08:28PM (#21012008)
Their new redesign is so completely awful they have to have an option to “just show the old reddit” in your settings. If they ever take that away I think I’ll just stop using it, it’s that bad.
Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by elSidCampeador on Thursday September 19, 2019 @01:40AM (#21013597)
I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way - if they ever force me to use only the new site, then I'll leave reddit for good. Or maybe just use it on my phone (Apollo for Reddit is pretty good)
Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by tootahe45 on Thursday September 19, 2019 @03:40AM (#21014164)
I stopped criticizing redesigns because i usually get over it, but the Reddit one makes the site at least 8x slower for me.
Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by BostonEnginerd on Thursday September 19, 2019 @07:39AM (#21015260)
That’s been my complaint. The old server side rendered site was really fast to load. Ever since the first redesign a few years back it’s been really slow.
Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by tinus_hn on Thursday September 19, 2019 @06:01PM (#21021158)
Here’s half the page you requested, and some other ‘related’ crap.
Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by thirdsun on Friday September 20, 2019 @01:45AM (#21023606)
Same here. I doN't share msot people's outrage when it coems to redesigns, but this one only seems to have downsides.

Imagine redesigning Reddit with simple HTML, CSS and only the most necessary sprinkles of JavaScript. In my opinion it's clearly a document-based website that doesn't need to pretend being a one-page-app.

Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by romwell on Thursday September 19, 2019 @03:40AM (#21014163)
Forget the settings, just use http://old.reddit.com always :)
Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by winternett on Thursday September 19, 2019 @10:45AM (#21016657)
If you think that's bad, try using the browser version on mobile... It's full of annoying pop-ups to try to encourage you to use their crappy mobile app. (sadface) :(
Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by isugimpy on Thursday September 19, 2019 @08:03AM (#21015371)
Serious question: What makes it completely awful? Do you have ideas that might make it a better experience, besides "just use the old UI"?
Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by ryanmercer on Thursday September 19, 2019 @08:43AM (#21015612)
Everything. Literally everything. It uses a WYSIWYG input which completely breaks old.reddit formatting inputs, it constantly causes confusion as to what comment you are replying to so you get people replying to the wrong person or replying to the main post, it looks cartoony and blatantly obvious you're on a social website if you're trying to reddit on the sly, It doesn't like browser windows that aren't open full screen if you're trying to reddit on the sly, it severely restricts how much information you can have in the sidebar, etc.
Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by anoncake on Thursday September 19, 2019 @02:20PM (#21019000)
I love the redesign. I used to spend way to much time on Reddit, the redesign fixed that.
Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by JohnJamesRambo on Thursday September 19, 2019 @04:00PM (#21020093)
Haha I love that. Maybe I should turn on the redesign.
Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by jamil7 on Thursday September 19, 2019 @02:34AM (#21013845)
I a lot of people use third party mobile apps because the official one is subpar. They should just acqui-hire Apollo for iOS at least.
Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by nfvs on Thursday September 19, 2019 @04:01AM (#21014253)
Given what happened after they acqui-hired Alien Blue, I'd say no they shouldn't.
Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by jamil7 on Thursday September 19, 2019 @06:08AM (#21014839)
Good point, I'd forgotten about that.
Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by Beefin on Wednesday September 18, 2019 @09:57PM (#21012498)
500 employees is still alot. Especially given the technology ecosystem that exists for leverage.

The revenue piece is an interesting one because i was an early adopter and remember the revenue struggle. Gold/silver doesn't cut it because it relies on generosity.

FB/Twitter are an ads business. Is that really not too lucrative of a field for reddit?

Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by mullsork on Thursday September 19, 2019 @02:53AM (#21013930)
There are ads on Reddit already. I only ever use their website with an, but I get ads on the iOS app.

I've been seeing a significant rise in the usage of gold/silver/platinum lately, used heavily for banter on r/soccer (and for rewarding quality content as well.)

Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by ryanmercer on Thursday September 19, 2019 @08:36AM (#21015552)
>I've been seeing a significant rise in the usage of gold/silver/platinum lately, used heavily for banter on r/soccer (and for rewarding quality content as well.)

Same, but it's because they changed the way gold works. If you have a subscription, for stuff like removing ads and what not, you get coins every month which then allows me to give out several silvers every month or let them pile up to give out a week of gold here and there. I doubt there has been a significant rise in people paying and is likely largely the new coin system.

Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by ERD0L on Thursday September 19, 2019 @06:55AM (#21015058)
ads on iOS ? Do yourself a favor and install Apollo like every sane person
Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by opmac on Wednesday September 18, 2019 @07:33PM (#21011644)
Meh... they could have rewritten the site from the ground up, including any sort of data migration, multiple times over by now. I have never worked there, but outside looking in, it seems like there is a significant lack of technical vision from them.

Other big players like Facebook, Twitter, etc, are literally inventing pivotal parts of the modern web technical stack. What has come out of reddit?

Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by joatmon-snoo on Wednesday September 18, 2019 @07:44PM (#21011737)
> including any sort of data migration, multiple times over by now

Someone's never done a data migration while serving 1M+ qps!

Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by ses1984 on Wednesday September 18, 2019 @09:57PM (#21012495)
But they have had downtime, it's not like downtime for a migration would damage their reputation.
Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by sethammons on Wednesday September 18, 2019 @10:08PM (#21012550)
I've come close to that many, many times with zero downtime. It does take planning, more than many folks would think. But it can be done as long as you think it through.
Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by arcticfox on Wednesday September 18, 2019 @11:34PM (#21013045)
I've never done anything close to that scale of migration, but I also can't really imagine taking an approach that feels like a huge migration.

I feel like I would try to strangle the old app (putting proxies in front and redirecting endpoints as they're rewritten) rather than swapping it out wholesale.

At that point I don't know if it really counts as a migration as much as just development.

Any thoughts on that approach? Is that what you have done, or was it a more holistic swap over?

Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by joatmon-snoo on Thursday September 19, 2019 @04:30PM (#21020413)
That isn't a data migration, that's a release.
Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by throwaway1777 on Wednesday September 18, 2019 @08:47PM (#21012119)
Did you miss the part where Reddit has 500 employees whereas FB has 40000? There was a point in Reddit history where there was literally 1 engineer.
Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by opmac on Wednesday September 18, 2019 @09:40PM (#21012408)
What's your point? Wikipedia is Alexa rank 10 and has ~300 employees.
Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by hobofan on Thursday September 19, 2019 @03:01AM (#21013968)
What's your point? Wikipedia is developing even slower than Reddit. Not that it would need to, though.
Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by bredren on Wednesday September 18, 2019 @09:45PM (#21012436)
They created a mobile app and dark patterns that pushed users to use it so they could show ads.
[dead]
Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by linza on Thursday September 19, 2019 @02:22AM (#21013788)
Yes, oh no. Dark patterns are closer to fraud than to a legitimate business model I'd recommend to my friends and family. Nigerian princes selling you gold is a business model too.
Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by thatguyagain on Thursday September 19, 2019 @03:28AM (#21014096)
The company you work for, how do they make money? Do they market their products?
Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by linza on Thursday September 19, 2019 @04:57AM (#21014512)
Yes of course. What's your point? All marketing lies, and there is no spectrum, and therefore no moral ambiguity in doing shady things?
Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by attqqq on Wednesday September 18, 2019 @11:26PM (#21012996)
There’s always ethical ways to generate money, too. Opt in generosity is proven to be viable.. see: Wikipedia, All of Patreon, Etc
Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by Gaelan on Thursday September 19, 2019 @01:33AM (#21013562)
Reddit gold was that, for a long time. Presumably, it didn’t work. (Or maybe wasn’t profitable enough?)
Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by Bombthecat on Thursday September 19, 2019 @02:08AM (#21013728)
We are past ethical ways...
Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by kamaal on Thursday September 19, 2019 @12:37AM (#21013338)
>>they could have rewritten the site from the ground up

They did. They even tossed out Common Lisp and bought in Python because they thought it would fix their problems. It didn't.

Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by Deimorz on Thursday September 19, 2019 @01:16AM (#21013491)
That was in December 2005, less than 6 months after the site launched. Reddit was tiny and didn't even have subreddits or comments yet. This is what it looked like: https://web.archive.org/web/20051205025706/http://reddit.com...

The problems they're dealing with 14 years later as one of the top sites on the internet aren't even slightly comparable.

Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by kamaal on Thursday September 19, 2019 @02:54AM (#21013936)
Sure, may be its time to move to something like Clojure or Golang now?

Python is a good scripting language, But if you are developing backend applications for this scale you probably need some serious JVM language. Or even Golang works fine.

Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by Stevvo on Thursday September 19, 2019 @04:34AM (#21014417)
Instagram's backend is written in python. Python is very slow, but still fast enough.
Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by juststeve on Thursday September 19, 2019 @05:40AM (#21014690)
they could still backend to C or rust, no?
[dead]
Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by chillwaves on Wednesday September 18, 2019 @08:51PM (#21012144)
Do you have specific insight into working at Reddit?
Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by opmac on Wednesday September 18, 2019 @09:40PM (#21012412)
You've managed to say a lot without really saying anything.

You make plenty of baseless assumptions about my background and ambitions... but I'm not even going to try to address my professional experience (or lack thereof) because it doesn't matter, since you're just using it as a straw man to deflect criticism.

The facts are as follows: 1. Reddit is one of the highest visited websites in the world. 2. Throughout nearly their entire history, they've struggled to put together a way to make money. 3. They have notorious uptime.

Of course they have talented engineers... it would be a surprise if one of the worlds most popular websites didn't.

That doesn't change the facts that they continue to look and function like they're straight out of 2005 (does their search even work yet?), lack a semi decent mobile experience, and have contributed essentially nothing to the technical community in their entire history.

Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by tomnipotent on Friday September 20, 2019 @12:36AM (#21023360)
> Reddit is one of the highest visited websites in the world > Throughout nearly their entire history, they've struggled to put together a way to make money.

True, but irrelevant. It also means they handle more traffic per dollar than probably any other site in it's category.

> They have notorious uptime.

Browsing https://reddit.statuspage.io/ for less than a minute proves this is hyperbolic bull.

> and have contributed essentially nothing to the technical community in their entire history

It's not like the reddit source code hasn't been open source forever. But sure, whatever you say. Would have taken you 10 seconds to Google before spouting off nonsense.

Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by juststeve on Thursday September 19, 2019 @05:43AM (#21014709)
so, where is your website?
Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by blaser-waffle on Thursday September 19, 2019 @09:26AM (#21015918)
whataboutism is not a valid reply to the above (fairly legitimate) criticisms
Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by netsec_burn on Wednesday September 18, 2019 @08:44PM (#21012104)
Wikipedia is one of the Alexa top 10 globally (above Reddit, which is #20) and has 300 employees.
Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by chubbyrabbit on Wednesday September 18, 2019 @09:24PM (#21012305)
There's a reason he compared Reddit with Twitter and Facebook. You interact a lot with social media (commenting, liking, etc.) and also their content is much more dynamic and personalised.

Wikipedia is very static in comparison.

Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by opmac on Wednesday September 18, 2019 @09:41PM (#21012420)
I'm not sure how you can say Wikipedia is static, even by comparison: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Statistics
Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by kalleboo on Wednesday September 18, 2019 @09:56PM (#21012492)
From your link: Wikipedia develops at a rate of over 1.8 edits per second

The statistics I can find for Reddit put it at 160 submissions per second[0]. And that's not counting comments or votes. And each vote changes the ordering of submissions and comments.

[0]https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/8aek7d/red...

Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by ryanmercer on Thursday September 19, 2019 @08:40AM (#21015584)
>that's not counting comments or votes

Or 'hide', in every sub I'm active in I hide each new thread after I've decided I am not interested or after I've looked at it so I can quickly scan new stuff.

Then add automoderator removing things for manual approval, approval of threads etc. Gilding, messages, chat etc.

Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by davidgerard on Thursday September 19, 2019 @05:21AM (#21014607)
and Wikipedia also runs on a shoestring - even with some of the smartest people I know working at Wikimedia, the tech department could have 10x the people without running short of work at any point
Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by inafewwords on Wednesday September 18, 2019 @09:40PM (#21012409)
Craigslist with #8 most viewed at 70 employees.

.. Didn't fact check the numbers though.

Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by alfozan on Thursday September 19, 2019 @03:30AM (#21014103)
Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by paxys on Wednesday September 18, 2019 @07:36PM (#21011673)
Facebook the company has 40,000 employees, but I'm willing to bet the total number of engineers working on facebook.com vs reddit.com isn't too different.
Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by NoodleIncident on Wednesday September 18, 2019 @07:55PM (#21011815)
You'd definitely lose that bet.
Re:Reddit was down for over two hours by dymk on Wednesday September 18, 2019 @08:07PM (#21011889)
I worked in a Facebook building with 2000 engineers, and that's not even our biggest office.