I think the wide angle camera is pretty important if you're into taking pics

I love the wide angle camera on my LG G5. And it's only three years young.

I agree. I have the Samsung S10+ with 3 lenses, wide, normal and zoom. And I end up using the wide angle way more frequently than I thought I would. It's super handy.

I liked the wide angle lens on my LG G6 but recently moved to a Pixel 3a. The wide angle was nice, but a better sensor is overall much preferable.

They improved every aspect of the phone. Each is a feat of engineering unto itself.

What were you hoping for?

I was hoping for USB-C and no camera bump on the back. Just make the phone 1mm thicker and add some extra battery. I guess that would be too much... We have to live with the "up to 4h" extra battery life that would probably translate in 1h of extra battery in the real world. It's just depressing.

I always mentally translate "up to" as "strictly less than."

The 11 Pro is 0.4mm thicker than the XS (and the X/XS were 0.6mm thicker than the 7). They're slowly getting there.

> We have to live with the "up to 4h" extra battery life that would probably translate in 1h of extra battery in the real world

Comparing the numbers to the stated numbers for the iPhone XS, "streaming video" has actually gone down by 3 hours. And they removed the "internet use" spec completely. You can now listen to music for 65 hours instead of 60 though.

Potentially controversial: how much more battery do you need? I have an iPhone 8 and it lasts for two solid days (48 hours) if I forget to charge it and one really heavy day if I do charge it.

I agree that a little extra thickness isn’t too bad (and on USB-C), but I’m pretty happy with my battery life. Do I just not use it as much as most people? I’m genuinely curious.

You don't need a 2 hour long presentation to give small spec bumps. The problem is that everyone now expects this whole yearly circus, and Apple puts on a show even though they only have very incremental improvements to show. It also doesn't help that most of the the cool software features were already announced at WWDC.

Better computational photography with added camera hardware, new immersive audio algorithms, on-CPU changes for optimized ML matrix computations, etc, are not "small spec bumps". If you think they are it's likely because companies like Apple are so incredible at delivering this kind of stuff that it seems routine.

> Better computational photography

Basically catching up to the Pixel

> new immersive audio algorithms

Will have to try it out but it sounds very much like fluff

> on-CPU changes for optimized ML matrix computations

So faster matrix multiplies are a user-facing feature?

Other than the camera changes, there was no features an average user would be excited over. No new tech like face unlock, animojis, Samsung's audio focus, Pixel's Soli, or other real new features.

I was countering your claim that these were spec bumps. Now we're instead having a discussion about Android phones and Animojis?

I can't keep track.

I categorize announcements in two buckets:

1. Spec bumps: These are mostly invisible to the consumer, it just gives them a phone that's slightly faster or lasts longer. Faster matrix multiply falls into this category.

2. Features: These are actual changes the user can see and interact with. I named a few examples, both on software (animoji/sound focus) and hardware (face unlock/soli) side.

This presentation had almost none of the latter, other than Dark Mode. I'm not sure why that statement is so hard to understand. None of the stuff you named were really features. No one goes to the store to buy the phone with the slightly faster cpu or better matrix multiplies.

> Now we're instead having a discussion about Android phones and Animojis?

Because you & apple during the presentation made is sound like computational photography in phones was something ground breaking and never before seen. Its been in the Pixel phone for years.

No one said it was new. They said it was big for Apple. Yes, Apple is always behind their competitors in many things, but that’s not why people buy Apple.

I'm never sure why everything always has to be about "X was slow to do Y, and now they're finally catching up to Z".

It is how it is, just let it be. If you prefer a certain brand then just go with that brand. Otherwise it's just a wasted effort to be trying to brag for one brand you don't even work for that they did something faster than another one.

Even ignoring that line, it's still basically the only feature they announced for the phone...

Other than the 20% faster CPU, 4-5 additional hours of battery life, 2e6:1 contrast ratio, and 30% faster FaceID (which might be the difference between the phone seeming to immediately unlock and pausing briefly)?

If Intel or AMD announces a 20% faster chip it would be met with applause. Now imagine if they announced a 20% faster chip that also used 25% less energy. And it also takes great pictures with three different lenses, recognizes your face, has one of the best screens ever made, and so on. If that's not impressive, what would Apple have to do to be impressive?

> It is how it is, just let it be.

It's the corollary to:

> Apple are so incredible at delivering this kind of stuff that it seems routine

Would it be more impressive if they didn't try to catch up to the Pixel?

Animojis as "new tech" that an "average user would be excited over"?

Do you think an average user is more excited by animojis or faster matrix multiplies?

Every one of those features appeared in Chinese & Korean Android phones 2-3 years ago. Neither are these "feats", nor are they unique to Apple. They're already behind the curve on these features.

The only commendable thing is scale, when Apple adds these features they reach 10X in unit sales per SKU compared to the competition.

Do you trust those phones with your data?

Do you really trust Apple with yours? [1][2].

[1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208351

[2] https://9to5mac.com/2019/07/29/stop-apple-listening-siri-rec...

what I find odd is Apple appears disconnected from their audience, this was not the first presentation where Tim or others seem to pause waiting for an expected cheer that was not to materialize.

I was hoping to get rid of the notch. I had an iPhone X, I'm typing this on a OnePlus 7. There's a few phones now that have no notches or holes in the screen.

It’s a bad sign when your big event starts with an update to Frogger.

Apple almost always builds up to their main announcements.

I disagree, I was surprised Konami was making games again. I thought they abandoned video games, in order to focus on pachinco.

An intern’s Unity project presented by a carnival barker who speaks to the audience like their average age is four years old is not a large step out of line of Konami’s expected behavior.

I thought they axed Kojima it was exactly because they were focusing on cheaper, more profitable mobile games.

https://www.polygon.com/2015/12/16/10220356/hideo-kojima-kon...

honestly, the XS/XR one was the same for me. I have an iPhone X and there was zero temptation to upgrade to XS/XR and a meh amount to the 11/11 Pro (11R/11S).

I think phone advancement cycles have hit a point where I'm kind of underwhelmed from everyone and that's fine. I just want Apple to come out with one using USB-C instead of Lightning (to match iPad Pro and MacBook Pro and being able to rid myself of my lightning cables), 5G (for future proofing), and maybe in-display fingerprint.

I could go for a model like that and my next upgrades will probably just be the batteries until it bites the dust.

Same. I bought a 7+ when my 6 died, and I hated every minute with that phone. My X is, IMO, the best iPhone I've ever owned, and have no real desire to upgrade. Usually I upgrade every 2 years, on the "S" cycle (the 6 was an aberration), as I cared more about performance than having the latest 'look' phone.

This is probably the first time I haven't felt the hankering at the 2 year mark.

This is me. I'm still rocking an iPhone 7 but use an iPhone X as my work phone. I think the iPhone 11 will get the upgrade for my personal device but I'll probably still with the X for work unless I notice a huge difference in camera quality.

Yep, I've got an iPhone X and feel like it's fine for another year. Although the battery life improvements are supposed to be notable? Personally the next big thing I'm waiting for is USB-C so iPhone 12 it is...

To each their own. The improvements in computational photography like automatically stitching a few pictures together for higher resolution and night mode are pretty incredible. And the improved dynamic range, resolution, and added wide angle lens are nice improvements.

I've updated every 2 years for the past 8 years or so -- even back then I never felt the need to upgrade the very next year, but by 2 years out I've always been pretty excited for the improvements. And this year that still holds, I'm excited to upgrade my iPhone X.

The stitching feature is vaporware.

"Incredible" is a pretty big stretch. When you can calibrate the cameras yourself, the math isn't actually that difficult to work out. Also, there are plenty of us that use the phone in a "pro" sense as a mobile computing device, not as a photographer or film director.

I'm just happy they dropped the stupid 'X' nomenclature. Now they need to rename Xcode to Apple Code or something...

11 Code Pro & 11 Code Pro Max, according to precedence.

The X was roman numeral 10

That's what I think is stupid. Roman numerals are stupid and make things inconsistently named. iPhone ten vs ecks-code.

Fair point. Once you start listing it out, you see how confusing they made it for users:

- OS X = "OS ten" - iphone X = "iphone ten" - Xcode = "ex-code"

Plus "XS" was "ten S"

It's just occurred to me I never made that connection - every I know just calls it the XS (ecks-ess).

Which always sounded like "iPhone tennis" to me

I think it was a fun "throw back" to when they released OSX (the previous version was called OS 9).

"OSX" is pronounced "ozz-icks" :)

Huh, I always called it the iPhone Ecks.

I can't really think of a 'tech thing' with 'X' in the name that is not pronounced Ecks.

They can call it what they want and I understand what they were going for, but it'll always be iPhone Ecks to me.

Shit, are we supposed to be pronouncing that "tencode"?

Yeah that may have been what they intended, but everyone I know, including people who work retail selling the phones, calls it an "excess Max".

If you type the say command into Terminal on a Mac and have it say "iPhone X" or "Mac OS X" it will pronounce it correctly (Ten instead of X). Doesn't relate much to the argument, other than being a neat easter egg.

Well it at least shows what they intended. :)

Except a ton of people said the letter (since iPhones 3-8 used Arabic numerals), and the "XS" was written together, to make it even more confusing.

Yeah, the X was confusing, but now the new iPhone 11 is not really the new iPhone 11. The iPhone 11 Pro is the new iPhone 11. Still confusing...

They're changing the product positioning in the line so that the most popular model is now the "normal" one, and premium models are a step up from that. Honestly I like it better than giving the high end model the default branding with a worse model below it that most people will actually buy.

If you think that differentiating between three phones in the new range is confusing, you should keep far away from Xiaomi!

The argument has been made that the 11 is just as good as the flagship iPhones of the past but now they have another beyond-flagship model above that.

With the most underwhelming event

1.5 hour just to re-announce Arcade/TV+, and give a small spec bump to iPad, Apple Watch and iPhone. What a waste of time. The only real new feature the iPhone got was Night Mode which is an exact copy of the computational stuff Pixel does with Night Sight, from their description.

They didn't mention any spec bump for the watch.

Are you kidding, the display is always on. That was the biggest announcement of the day IMO.

Yep, and that's the feature I'd turn off right away. Well, I guess no upgrade for me this year from S3.

You are assuming Apple will let you turn it off :)

The ONE thing that was worse about Apple Watch compared to normal watches is fixed, and this guy wants to turn it off.

There's a new Apple Watch.

The apple equivalent of 'meeting that should have been an email'.

They could have just merged all the videos together into one long show. The canned scripts were just getting boring.

And, really, you lead off with a Frogger game?

My company with low 5-digit users hosts an hour-long monthly webinar about product updates. The iPhone is one of the most popular consumer items in the world, I think it’s reasonable for Apple to spend 1.5 hours/year talking about what’s changing

I was hoping for Tile-like trackers. I wonder if they'll show up later this fall in a different event. Would make sense to put it close to the holiday shopping season. Still, would have liked to have seen them today...

The specs page for the new phone mentions "Ultra Wideband chip for spatial awareness" so it's sure to come

Good catch. Which phones have this chip?

It appears just the iPhone 11 and 11 pros.

Im curious what the sensors are used for. They describe it as “GPS at the scale of your room” which sounds pretty ambitious.

Relatively, yes; cumulatively this is the most interesting iPhone ever.

If Apple added 1 byte of extra storage to their existing lineup, your statement would still be true.

IOW, it's a near-meaningless statement.

Thats why no one talks about it cumulatively. By cumulative logic every new iPhone release is the most interesting ever by definition because its... cumulative.

Unless features get dropped.

The most interesting thing they said was they're finally shipping the phone with a proper charger.

I was able about to order an XS Max, so I'm pretty content with better camera/battery/charger, though I imagine if you were already semi-up-to-date there's not really a whole lot new for most users.

Kind of a ridiculous statement considering the iPhone XS was essentially identical to the iPhone X.