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Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by vanderZwan on Friday August 09, 2019 @06:23AM (#20652940)
> Yu claimed, without offering any actual proofs, that HarmonyOS is “more powerful and secure than Android.” “Can it be installed on smartphones? Of course.”

This immediately made me wonder if I have ever seen "without offering any actual proofs" added as a qualifier to any of the press statements of Apple, Microsoft or Google.

Don't get me wrong, that kind of skepticism is good. It just feels naive and tribal to limit it to the Chinese companies.

Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by pavs on Friday August 09, 2019 @06:36AM (#20653017)
I have often seen there are heavy implicit bias from USA based journalists/blogs when reporting non-us based companies. More so when reporting Chinese companies. China is the second-largest economy in the world. But there is always a "but" or an implicit Asterix when reporting anything positive about Chinese companies.

Second Largest smartphone manufacturer. Largest supplier of network equipment. 6-7 largest tech company in the world. 170k employees in 170 countries. 100+ billion yearly revenue. They are not even allowed to do business in USA. Arguably the most profitable market in the world.

Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by gtirloni on Friday August 09, 2019 @06:56AM (#20653111)
Large doesn't mean ethical. There's that giant firewall, the backdoors, etc.
Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by toxik on Friday August 09, 2019 @07:24AM (#20653264)
Huawei has been caught doing corporate espionage many times, and treating its employees poorly. It’s always such an uphill battle to get people to realize that competition with China is different from democratic countries. It’s easier to believe that it’s just racism and bigotry than it is to accept that Chinese companies compete on uneven footing.
Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by LunaSea on Friday August 09, 2019 @08:05AM (#20653521)
I absolutely agree but if you think that the US companies are fighting fairly then you are sorely mistaken.

The US government and judicial system routinely interfere to give advantages and sometimes outright eliminate competitors to American companies.

A very good example is the way the acquisition of Alstom by GE was delivered.

Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by jeffusan1234 on Friday August 09, 2019 @09:39AM (#20654171)
Another example is how the US government and Microsoft effectively killed off japanese competition from their TRON operating system (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRON_project).
Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by pavs on Friday August 09, 2019 @07:40AM (#20653361)
>Huawei has been caught doing corporate espionage many times, and treating its employees poorly

Lets remove Huawei with Uber.

Uber accused of espionage, bribery and hacking by former employee:

https://techcrunch.com/2017/12/15/uber-accused-of-espionage-...

"I am an Uber employee and I support the drivers’ strikes.":

https://boingboing.net/2019/03/27/i-am-an-uber-employee-and-...

Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by bad_user on Friday August 09, 2019 @07:46AM (#20653397)
Have you seen Uber being cut any slack here in Hacker News? Or in the press at large for that matter.

I haven't.

Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by krageon on Friday August 09, 2019 @07:01AM (#20653137)
Let's not play this particular blame-game. The ethics (or lack thereof) of the administration of China is not where this bias comes from.
Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by justicezyx on Friday August 09, 2019 @01:11PM (#20656306)
> The ethics (or lack thereof) of the administration of China is not where this bias comes from.

How so?

Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by pavs on Friday August 09, 2019 @07:01AM (#20653139)
Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by gtirloni on Friday August 09, 2019 @08:06AM (#20653526)
One doesn't justify the other. Otherwise we're lowering the bar instead raising it.
Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by pavs on Friday August 09, 2019 @08:27AM (#20653656)
Yet, it's convenient to point it out every time a Chinese company is mentioned in any context. But not so much when a company from the US does it. Let me ask you a question, name me a company that is the in the top 100 largest company in the world - that you would consider ethical?
Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by concert-gilled on Friday August 09, 2019 @08:47AM (#20653776)
The United States doesn't harvest the organs of prisoners.
Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by pavs on Friday August 09, 2019 @08:50AM (#20653796)
Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by gtirloni on Friday August 09, 2019 @09:03AM (#20653884)
This is a waste of time. Both "sides" have done terrible things and, again, one doesn't justify the other. We shouldn't cut these companies any Slack... be it Huawei, Uber, whatever.
Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by brynjolf on Friday August 09, 2019 @07:12AM (#20653195)
Just like the NSA and Cisco do...
Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by close04 on Friday August 09, 2019 @07:23AM (#20653257)
Those aren't back doors. They're front doors for democracy and freedom. [/s]

We can't expect media to be entirely neutral. Both sides will tend to focus almost exclusively on their own achievements and the other's failures and mistakes in order to maintain the balance. It may be a good idea to read both sides and then "average out".

Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by ETHisso2017 on Friday August 09, 2019 @12:19PM (#20655735)
Cisco built the Great Firewall. Huawei just maintains it.
Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by jaclaz on Friday August 09, 2019 @06:47AM (#20653070)
>This immediately made me wonder if I have ever seen "without offering any actual proofs" added as a qualifier to any of the press statements of Apple, Microsoft or Google.

I would go a little further, even the use of the verb "to claim" is in itself a little diminutive, had it been one of the big US companies their CEO's would have probably "said", "stated" or "announced" or "affirmed" (and not "claimed").

Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by Ajedi32 on Friday August 09, 2019 @10:13AM (#20654485)
I think it makes sense to use "claim" to describe statements as sweeping and general as that one. I think Apple claiming iOS is "more powerful and secure than Android" would be met with a similar level of skepticism.
Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by RenRav on Friday August 09, 2019 @07:06AM (#20653166)
Interesting point, it does seem oddly framed now.
Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by cojxd on Friday August 09, 2019 @06:50AM (#20653087)
When the CEO of Apple says something, it happens.

Huawei have yet to prove themselves in this space.

Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by washadjeffmad on Friday August 09, 2019 @07:11AM (#20653192)
Do you not acknowledge that Huawei is a large, multinational company with large and well liked product lines competitive with popular US brands?

Do you think that happened by mere chance, or is there another reason you inherently deny their success?

Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by addicted on Friday August 09, 2019 @07:37AM (#20653340)
If the person is from the US, they’ve likely never come across a Huawei device and are unaware of how popular and good their laptops and phones are.

Edit: In general it’s quite fascinating how backwards the US smartphone technology scene is. I only recently became aware of this being involved in thst bubble myself. The US is middle of the pack at best when it comes to mobile networks, it’s way behind when it comes to phone hardware. The one area where it leads is software and services, but it will be interesting if the US can maintain the lead here, especially since basically all the American software companies are trying to emulate WeChat.

Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by cojxd on Friday August 09, 2019 @07:56AM (#20653461)
I am from the EU and I've seen lots of Huawei mobiles. But what are they, apart from one of many Android OEMs that make no money?
Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by oblio on Friday August 09, 2019 @09:54AM (#20654301)
> But what are they, apart from one of many Android OEMs that make no money?

Yeah, about that: https://www.huawei.com/en/press-events/annual-report/2018

=> Net profit 59,345 CNY Million 25.1%

I believe that's about $8bn. And the 25.1% at the end is the increase from last year.

Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by CountSessine on Friday August 09, 2019 @11:09AM (#20655052)
Most of which is probably from their switch hardware business. Android has sucked the money out of the smartphone business.
Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by junipertea on Friday August 09, 2019 @07:21AM (#20653244)
In general making an OS from scratch wasn't very successful even with Samsung (#2 maker with considerable market share and a track record) completely failed with Tizen, so a relatively younger and smaller chinese company succeeding seems dubious. Of course I would be glad for a competing mobile OS, but I would wait for benchmarks and take security statements with a grain of salt. Also, it might be completely different departments at Huawei but there's the Cisco router firmware debacle (https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10485560675556000)
Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by oblio on Friday August 09, 2019 @09:56AM (#20654315)
> #2 maker with considerable market share and a track record

You mean #1, right? :-) https://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/2019-...

Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by MYEUHD on Friday August 09, 2019 @06:58AM (#20653121)
Cough... AirPower Cough...
Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by collyw on Friday August 09, 2019 @06:55AM (#20653106)
"Just Works"

yeah right.

Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by varjag on Friday August 09, 2019 @06:49AM (#20653076)
How many US CEOs would have directly compared it to a specific competitor product on the announce?
Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by jsgo on Friday August 09, 2019 @08:23AM (#20653641)
There were I'm fairly sure 3 Google I/Os in a row where they specifically spoke of iOS when talking about new features (probably more still, I haven't followed the livestreams anymore for them or for WWDC in like 2 years I guess). WWDC they'd do it as well (some during speeches, then the "whose devices are up to date" pie charts with like ~10% on the newest Android release of the time and >70% on the newest iOS release of the time). Microsoft did it during the Windows Phone days, but I think now they're trying to extend olive branches especially to Android, but I believe they've been nice about iOS as well.
Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by EastToWest on Friday August 09, 2019 @06:52AM (#20653091)
Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by sniperjzp on Friday August 09, 2019 @12:35PM (#20655910)
Countless time Steve Jobs mocked M$ and Windows in their new products announcement.
Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by bsaul on Friday August 09, 2019 @07:54AM (#20653445)
I don't think any serious tech company, from any part of the world, would claim its brand new OS is "of course" more powerful and secure than the number 1 OS in the market, without providing at the very bare minimum some kind of twisted/fake/dishonest on-stage or video demo.

Take it differently : imagine microsoft announced a brand new mobile OS. Would it say it's "of course more powerful and secure than android and iOs", period ? Could you imagine that they wouldn't get flared up ?

Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by nxc18 on Friday August 09, 2019 @09:23AM (#20654034)
It’s just really not hard to claim to be more secure than Android. Sure iOS is an issue, but I don’t think anyone would believe Android is more secure than Windows Phone.
Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by mda on Saturday August 10, 2019 @05:28AM (#20661072)
Why not? Android security is actually top notch.
Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by illuminati1911 on Friday August 09, 2019 @06:28AM (#20652969)
I believe those 3 companies have shown and demonstrated their competence and ability to deliver world class software. Huawei has not, at least yet. Whether that will ever happen remains to be seen.
Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by switch007 on Friday August 09, 2019 @06:30AM (#20652987)
And one of those companies let you log in to root with an empty password, very recently. The scepticism should apply across the board
Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by illuminati1911 on Friday August 09, 2019 @06:41AM (#20653037)
Cherry-picked anecdote doesn't change anything though. Skepticism applies to everyone, but more to companies (as well as individuals) that still haven't proven themselves.

Edit: To close04: No one, but you ever talked about Cisco.

Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by switch007 on Friday August 09, 2019 @11:05AM (#20655019)
It's not an anecdote: it was a wide-reaching security issue that was objectively bad and which irrefutably happened.

Anyway, I think you moved the goal posts. You were implying they should not be included in the group to be sceptical about, rather than any kind of scale.

Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by close04 on Friday August 09, 2019 @07:28AM (#20653299)
If you follow the news daily and still consider Cisco hasn't proven to be worthy of skepticism at every turn, or reading the endless wave of "Chinese state sponsored hacker" news stories and never realize what the NSA is (EternalBlue, just as a quick read) then you're judging based on double standards.

This being said my main reason for being skeptic about HarmonyOS is that it's a v1.0. And just like almost all other v1.0s it has a lot to prove and improve.

Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by cojxd on Friday August 09, 2019 @06:38AM (#20653026)
Having a bug != being unable to deliver software
Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by jayd16 on Friday August 09, 2019 @12:15PM (#20655696)
When you use words like "more powerful" without even defining what that means, its going to be met with skepticism.

Also, Apple doesn't make these claims. They compare to their own previous generations when they want to make a comparison. They rarely mention competitors.

I really don't think your concern is warranted in this case.

Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by ghostpepper on Friday August 09, 2019 @11:38AM (#20655336)
There has been a lot of coverage in the last couple of years questioning whether Huawei, specifically, makes trustworthy products, due to the political situation between the US and China; is it so far fetched that a large US news organization would continue that thread?
Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by ender89 on Friday August 09, 2019 @04:12PM (#20657888)
China tends to create absolute garbage for the chinese market. Huawei's reputation outside of china has taken a massive hit, even though they were considered industry leaders this time last year, so that's not helping. Add to that the fact that they seemingly pumped this out in about 4 months and skepticism is warranted.
Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by dmortin on Friday August 09, 2019 @06:53AM (#20653094)
HarmonyOS is sort of a vaporware, isn't it? We heard about it, but if someone comes out with a new product then he should demontrate it. So skepticism is in order in this case.
Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by vanderZwan on Friday August 09, 2019 @07:20AM (#20653238)
> Don't get me wrong, that kind of skepticism is good. It just feels naive and tribal to limit it to the Chinese companies.
Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by imglorp on Friday August 09, 2019 @07:26AM (#20653275)
Ship it all and let Wireshark sort it out.
Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by gruez on Friday August 09, 2019 @12:25PM (#20655802)
How does that work if everything is encrypted? You can smuggle the information alongside legitimate requests
Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by imglorp on Friday August 09, 2019 @03:32PM (#20657594)
True, but at least you know the size, destination, and timing of an exchange.

You can't stop detect small smuggling but a periodic pull of software updates looks vastly different from uploads of all your photos, just for example.

Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by Mindwipe on Friday August 09, 2019 @07:07AM (#20653171)
I think that's reasonable scepticism of a V 1.0 product. Neither iOS or Android were anything like secure as they are today when the first shipped.
Re:HarmonyOS is Huawei’s Android alternative for smartphones... by thefourthchime on Friday August 09, 2019 @12:52PM (#20656109)
The same company that said they will release a folding phone, and then didn't.