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Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by S_A_P on Monday November 26, 2018 @10:40PM (#18539137)
100% agree with this. Its pretty interesting that I almost never use headphones anymore now because bluetooth headphones require a few things: 1) preplanning/foresight in charging the headphones 2) refer to number 1.

I have 2 really nice pairs of bluetooth headphones, and almost NEVER use them. Guess what pair gets used almost daily? my 15 year old beyerdynamic DT770s. 3.5mm or ¼" plug, closed back. Not really the most accurate, but a nice bass heavy rich sound and plenty loud. they work with gear that is 50 years old and brand new(so long as they include a headphone jack). I have vintage analog synthesizers 80s and 90s samplers to <2 year old digital synths. All work with these headphones.

Apple really really really really really really screwed up here. reverse course immediately.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by goldfeld on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @12:16AM (#18539618)
Use another brand phone? It couldn't really be simpler, free market and all.

Wireless things suck, I've never considered bluetooth for anything and I really, really hate my bluetooth keyboards. They have nice keys and petite builds, but I haven't used any of them for years now (one Apple, another also with great build). Can't be bothered for batteries, can't be bothered with bluetooth for different linux distros, desktop environments etc. Habits with technology are easily broken even when we don't want to. Give me wired or I'll go without. Also, Wi-Fi internet at home just sucks (IoT/SmartHome I won't even go into, much less that joke called SmartTV [give me regular TVs back please that don't look after me in goody two shoe or shady ways]). Whoever thought Wi-Fi everywhere was a good idea? Reach sucks, gives everyone on the block cancer. Let's stop spamming waves around people. They're not not noise, even if not perceived (microwaves for instance make me want to leap out of the room, it's like a screeching feeling.) I wish ethernet cables were still something people regularly setup, really wish.

I used not to hate technology, really did. Then the executives overdid it and the Wozniaks were put out on the side.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by kbenson on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @01:28AM (#18539987)
> Use another brand phone? It couldn't really be simpler, free market and all.

Well, it could be simpler, and more of a free market, if you could choose your OS across different brands instead of also having to change that, or if you didn't lose access to everything you have already bought for one OS's app marketplace.

There are plenty of things being done by the vendors in this space specifically to combat the effectiveness of the free market, because the free market is good for consumers and bad for short term company profits. Captive consumers are all the rage in the 2000's.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by yellowapple on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @02:42AM (#18540322)
All the more reason to put your money toward phones that run an operating system that's not locked to one specific device vendor.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by tomaskafka on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @11:55AM (#18543988)
Come on. You can pick Apple that sometimes act forceful in the name of (future|profits) and you can pick Google's personal data collector with smartphone functions bolted on, and that's it.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by yellowapple on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @02:28PM (#18554778)
The latter ain't necessarily true. Android without the Google Apps suite is possible (and relatively commonplace; see also: Fire tablets, Fire TV, and the rest of Amazon's Android-based devices). I ran CopperheadOS without GApps for a couple years with few issues. I currently run GApps on my new phone with LineageOS, but I'm strongly considering doing a backup and reflashing with microG's LineageOS build (which ships microG as a drop-in replacement for GApps, thus cutting Google out of the equation even for apps that would normally require it).
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by kulahan on Tuesday December 04, 2018 @01:50PM (#18602416)
Oh okay I'll just call up my 70 year old dad and tell him this, since it's such an accessible option for 70% of the population.

Fact of the matter is, while nearly every single obnoxious facet of the tech world can be worked around, half the people in my family can't figure out how to turn their phone's wifi on and off, let alone something as complex as replacing the entire OS and figuring out solutions to the various bugs this might introduce.

For an absolutely enormous majority of the population, your choices are something that doesn't care about UX anymore and comes in three flavors of "really expensive" or something that harvests your personal data all day long.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by yellowapple on Tuesday December 11, 2018 @02:55PM (#18658302)
Your 70-year-old grandpa would probably enjoy using a Kindle Fire. My 70+ year old grandma uses hers regularly to play Scrabble. Granted, Amazon's probably doing just as much data collection, but my point stands: Android without Google is possible, by no means obscure, and still reasonably accessible. You just have to know where to look (and come to terms with not having access to Google's ecosystem).
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by goldfeld on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @05:12PM (#18547338)
I think Android is very frustrating as well.

Actually, I pick old Palm. I'll buy a new Palm Treo like I did 10 years ago and it was glorious old tech. Maybe no whatsapp is a plus and I'll just use from the laptop, tell people to call/sms me during the day.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by randomsearch on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @06:25AM (#18541395)
> Wireless things suck

As a counterpoint, I think wires suck. They get in the way, they get tangled, I have to transport them, they break all too often, I trip over them, they knock things over when I move with them, they blow around in the wind, they present a fire risk and a safety risk, they have some kind of physical connection which keeps changing.

Downsides of wireless: remembering to charge, and configuration (a bit annoying if you have multiple devices).

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by sacado2 on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @07:01AM (#18541582)
Hah, this is very subjective indeed ;)

advantages of jacks + wires: reliable, 140 year old industry standard, plug-and-play, universal, cheap, easy to repair, doesn't require battery, doesn't require configuration, doesn't get out of sync, cannot be hacked by a third party.

downsides: sometimes all those wires tend to mix and make knots.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by hurrrrr on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @09:40AM (#18542600)
downsides: can't move really far when plugged into stationary device, breaks a lot (at least for me it's almost always the plug or cable that breaks), cable picks up random noise

upsides: my very old thingamajig with a broken display doesn't support anything else

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by Wowfunhappy on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @12:09PM (#18544159)
If they break a lot, you should find better headphones.

My JLab Audio Diego earbuds have lasted for the past two years, and I don't treat them well—they stay in my back pocket, and have experienced several trips through the washing machine.

And if they ever do break, the cost of a replacement is $15. That's barely more than the cost of the headphone jack to lightning adapter that I would need if I upgraded from my 6S.

And they have a flat cord that very rarely gets tangled.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by PhasmaFelis on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @01:09AM (#18539888)
> They're not not noise, even if not perceived (microwaves for instance make me want to leap out of the room, it's like a screeching feeling.)

I don't want to second-guess you, but that sounds more like a high-frequency sound from the microwave mechanism than anything directly caused by microwave radiation. Can you hear the "mosquito sound"? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKl_sTh0oHE

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by goldfeld on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @01:52AM (#18540098)
I mean, it could be, but I meant like a completely silent sound feeling, there is no sound (well, the microwave oven is noisy, but that bothers me as much as a blabbering TV, which is nearly not as much as this complete screeching silence.) To add to it, it gets 100x more bothersome if I'm within a foot of the oven, whereas being in the same room is still very upsetting and being just outside the doorstep feels more comfortable.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by andai on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @03:24AM (#18540530)
I recently bought a $5 pocket AM/FM radio and found that on AM mode (in between radio stations) I could pick up the radiation from every device in my house. When I moved the radio to my balls (phone), and to my bed (neighbors smart TV), it was very loud there. Sounded like demonic screeching.

Carry my phone in my backpack now, and moved my bed.

Now I just have that smart meter... that one soaks the entire house in a steady whine.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by yc-kraln on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @05:33AM (#18541158)
Please do yourself a favor and google "non-ionizing radiation", then realize that whether or not you have a receiver you are currently being bathed in all sorts of EM radiation. It's not harmful.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by icebraining on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @05:05AM (#18541014)
Now I just have that smart meter...

The house electrical system emits radio waves, and so do most screens, many lightbulbs, any device with an electric motor (e.g. hairdryers)..

And of course, your house is bathed by radio and TV station broadcasts, cellphone towers, CB radios, and of course, millions of space objects. Like the Sun.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by throwmeback on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @02:38AM (#18540306)
So this is the sound I hear every time an old TV is on! Thank you.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by rusk on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @03:33AM (#18540587)
> the sound I hear every time an old TV is on

Ah that would be the flyback transformer. Plainly audible to us these days now that most TVs don't have them any more. (I think GP is talking about something else btw)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flyback_transformer

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by lloeki on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @07:14AM (#18541660)
Most of the time in non-old devices it's a bad (either of quality or age) capacitor whining. It's infuriating enough in itself but can give me nausea on top of it!
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by rocky1138 on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @01:10AM (#18539891)
You write like Neil Stephenson. I'd love to subscribe to your newsletter, if you've got one.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by goldfeld on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @01:38AM (#18540032)
OK, since I like to write, have more so lately, have started a newsletter before and was planning to start a similar one soon, I'll bite. Except if Poe's law comes bite me and it wasn't in earnest (checked your comment history and you don't seem to make trashy comments like me), what'd you like to read about in this style? Technology, technological change, society, languages, editors, open source? What periodicity would work for you? Also I'll go finally read Snow Crash already (started once.)
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by Cogito on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @02:34AM (#18540284)
Just finished Snow Crash!

It's really good; as I was reading it I would stop and check the date it was authored. It holds up very well.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by Jaruzel on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @04:42AM (#18540921)
Read 'The Diamond Age'. Personally I think it's the best of his books.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by borgel on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @10:57AM (#18543356)
Agreed. Also Anathem is fantastic.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by acjohnson55 on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @02:53AM (#18540366)
Snow Crash is great. I actually just finished Zodiac yesterday and only realized after the fact that it's 30 years old. I'm starting Seveneves now, and it's already blowing my mind.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by Cogito on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @03:05AM (#18540433)
I've been meaning to read a number of different things, many from friends I've convinced to jot down in my reading suggestions spreadsheet.

It took a new local library opening up, and a holiday, for me to finally get to Snow Crash. I suspect I might be reading a few more of his works very soon.

I don't think I've read any of the others, though I may have started Seveneves at some point, but I did read "The rise and fall of D.O.D.O." (just before Snow Crash in fact!) which I highly highly recommend as well.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by rocky1138 on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @01:07PM (#18544859)
Anything tech. Your writing style matches very well with things that are frustrating, meaning I think lighthearted rants might be hilarious to read.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by goldfeld on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @05:06PM (#18547294)
Yes, my life as a programmer has been in horrible frustration with human-computer interfaces. Thanks by the way!
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by cageface on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @01:02AM (#18539847)
Latency is another issue. If you use your phone or tablet to make music then wireless headphones have an unacceptable delay. It's not a huge niche but there are a lot of us out there.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by TheSpiceIsLife on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @04:04AM (#18540756)
The way I read it, professional / amateur musicians and iPhones are the very definition of huge niche.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by pjc50 on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @04:21AM (#18540823)
Pro/am musicians and Macbooks are an absolutely massive combo and Apple get a lot of free advertising every time that glowing apple logo appears on stage. I wonder if they know this or will risk removing the jack from laptops.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by franga2000 on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @06:52AM (#18541530)
Most probably wouldn't care - they're usually using external DACs anyways.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by marzell on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @02:31AM (#18540267)
I also still use my DT770s as my daily headphones when I'm at my computer. I wish I had bought the Pro version way back when, as I believe it has detachable cables, and also higher resistance... it's difficult to modulate the volume on my desktop, as even 4-6% can be loud enough in some circumstances and there's not a lot of room for fine control at that level. In any case, I have had mine around the same length of time as you.

However, I also really love my bluetooth headphones, and that's what I use when I'm not at my desk at home. They also work as wired headphones, but I acknowledge they are not affordable to most people. A charge lasts a really long time, and they have some nice features as well. I don't expect them to last 15 years, however.

I bought a specific pair of wired earbuds with a mic to use for conference calls using my phone (Android). Now that my phone is failing and I'm forced to upgrade, I'm a bit concerned that the USB-to-3.5mm dongle for the Pixel 3 may not be compatible w/ the mic in my earbuds. In pictures it looks like it has a proper tip-ring-sleeve configuration so it might work, but at this point I'm just crossing my fingers until I can test.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by cyunem on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @04:12AM (#18540790)
With regards to your desktop, I had/have the same issue with the volume being insanely loud and my options being either on at 2% or off since everything else was uncomfortable. I found https://equalizerapo.com/ (for Windows, similar things seem to exist for other systems based on a quick google search) fixed the problem and allowed a lot greater fine control.

To get lower volume overall with Equalizer APO: install, reboot and change the Preamp line in EqualizerAPO/config/config.txt to -20 dB or whatever suits you. It should work as soon as you save.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by lhl on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @03:07AM (#18540443)
Just as an FYI you can buy adapters that increase impedance on your headphones very cheaply on eBay. If you are looking to change sensitivity without changing impedance (which has some effects on sound signature), iFi makes the “Ear Buddy” and “iEMatch” products that are a bit more expensive, but do what they claim on the tin.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by yiyus on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @04:55AM (#18540977)
I don't know if this was the case "back when", but nowadays the pro version does not have detachable cables. The difference is that the cable is coiled (and I think a bit longer) and some parts (that do not affect the sound signature) are of slightly higher quality.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by lloeki on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @07:19AM (#18541701)
Aha, the DT770 Pro are awesome! And they do exist in 80 and 250 ohms variants, which would probably have solved your volume problem...
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by 0x38B on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @03:11AM (#18540465)
For what it's worth, I use the USB-to-3.5mm dongle with my Pixel 2, and my earbuds with mic work great.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by hacknat on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @12:24AM (#18539656)
I have a pair of Bluetooth headphones that can actually go both ways. It has a wired and wireless mode. The wireless mode is great for exercise and chores, but if I forget to charge them I can still use them.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by msravi on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @12:55AM (#18539812)
Is the quality of sound still the same in the wired mode? I have one like this, but the quality of sound in the wired mode is too atrocious to even think of it as an option. So while it ticks a "feature" on the box, it is, for all practical purposes, simply a bluetooth headphone.

Not sure, but it appears that the bypass around the amplifier (which requires power) is just not designed right.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by rusk on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @03:41AM (#18540627)
My experience was opposite. My car stereo has bluetooth and I would often listen to my phone that way because, well convenient .. one day I accidentally used the wired mode because I was charging my phone from it and boom the improvement in sound quality just blew me away.

I looked into this, and the Bluetooth audio codecs just aren't that good. From heated discussions I have learned that the AirPod ones are in fact lossless because they use a grade of codec that isn't commonly available and thus never actually have to decode/reencode or anything like that. It's digital all the way to your ears.

So maybe bluetooth is "as good as" line quality when you've all the pieces lined up; but line quality can be obtained "for free" at all times with commodity hardware. Just a thought.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by majewsky on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @05:29AM (#18541137)
> It's digital all the way to your ears.

You mean to say "lossless all the way". Also, it cannot be digital all the way except if you were linking up your aural nerves to the airpod directly. ;)

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by rusk on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @06:07AM (#18541317)
I guess it depends on whether you define "ears" as "the general vicinity of" or "the actual thing" - I had expected that the former definition was evident but forgot this was HN ...

It's digital all the way to your ears in that you don't need to decode and then reencode, thus eliminating that intermediate "lossy" analogue transition phase. So yeah digital all the way, and by implication "lossless" because of that.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by minitech on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @02:02AM (#18540140)
This is almost certainly just a me thing, but just in case: I got some Bluetooth headphones that seemed to sound terrible wired, but it turned out to that the cable had to be pushed and rotated to lock into the headphones at that end. If you really mean atrocious atrocious (and especially if it’s Sennheiser HD 4.40 BT), this might be it?
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by hacknat on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @10:24AM (#18542960)
I haven't noticed a difference between the two modes, this is the pair that I own:

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0757WVSN8/ref=oh_aui_de...

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by Bud on Monday November 26, 2018 @11:13PM (#18539293)
AirPods require neither of these things. The case is always charging them. You want to use your beyerdynamics? Fine. Your phone came with an adapter for them.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by saurik on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @06:30AM (#18541416)
I use AirPods. I even like them. ... but you do realize that the case isn't a magical source of energy, right? You have to charge that thing... and the airpods themselves last a remarkably long time, but they don't last that long, so I find myself having to do this awkward dance in the middle of meetings where I take one out and charge it while relying on the other one, and then I swap to charge that one... I have lightning earpods, but then I can't charge my phone at the same time, so at some point my phone starts running out of battery and I'd have to switch to the airpods anyway (lol). I have tried buying multiple brands of lightning splitters, and they all suck and often the phone isn't quite able to charge even though it says it is charging.

I honestly don't care if I have a "headphone jack": I totally agree with Apple that it was a shitty jack. It was a fragile hole that made it impossible to waterproof the damned phone. How about they just give me two lightning ports? Or a lightning port and a USB-C port, to make my dreams finally come true of only having to carry around one (USB-C) cable while still getting to be compatible with all of the stuff Apple already sold for these devices?

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by franga2000 on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @06:58AM (#18541564)
> made it impossible to waterproof the damned phone Was that what Apple told their customers? Because it's utter bullshit. Sony, Samsung, LG, even those ultra-rugged CAT phones had headphone jacks and at least IP-68 (5m, 1h).
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by saintPirelli on Thursday November 29, 2018 @01:56PM (#18562759)
I love my CAT S41 because I don't have any of the issues in this thread and I expect this to stay true for another 10 years.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by forgottenpass on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @11:28AM (#18543706)
As a workaround I use an inductive charger while using headphones. Not a great solution because it only works at my desk, but better than nothing.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by S_A_P on Monday November 26, 2018 @11:19PM (#18539325)
Its not that I "want" to use them. The difference is that I could use the same headphones to record drums, drum machines, guitar, Vox, or even my iPhone. Bluetooth is great! I use it in my car for phone and audio all the time. Wireless headphones are at a fundamental disadvantage in that they have less battery capacity than a phone. Those AirPod thingys you like? great. They don't fit my weird ears. My problem. but ear buds and I don't mix. Sorry, wireless and small are at odds with each other.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by eksemplar on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @01:03AM (#18539851)
Why don’t you just plug your old headphones into the adapter and continue to use them?
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by PhasmaFelis on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @01:19AM (#18539943)
Because it's a pain in the ass to have to carry around another fiddly bit of tech gear which should have been completely unnecessary.

Yeah, it's petty. But literally no one benefits from the absence of jack (or at least no user), so why inflict even a petty annoyance on some users with nothing gained for it?

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by astrostl on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @01:37AM (#18540029)
I don’t use wired headphones, but I imagine that I would just leave the adapter on them 24/7?
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by konart on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @05:19AM (#18541081)
>but I imagine that I would just leave the adapter on them 24/7?

Except people often use same headphone with both - phone and pc, so you will have to remove the adapter anyway.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by qwertay on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @07:21AM (#18541708)
Thats one of the most fatal flaws. Apples proprietary plugs aren't even standard across their own devices.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by wl on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @02:10AM (#18540189)
I'd rather keep the 1/8" to 1/4" adapter on it. Lightning or USB C means now I have two adapters to carry around.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by PhasmaFelis on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @02:11PM (#18545605)
It shouldn't be required either way, but I've occasionally zip-tied two adapters together so I can swap between them quickly.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by PhasmaFelis on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @08:50AM (#18542224)
I think it might be slightly annoying to have a two-inch-long dongle hanging off your phone at all times, particularly on a brand of phone that's specifically marketed (and purchased) for being sleek and clean-lined.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by skgoa on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @03:13AM (#18540477)
Correct. It really isn't a big deal.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by Zach_the_Lizard on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @03:38AM (#18540617)
Until you want to charge and listen to music at the same time, which I wanted to do on a flight recently. I had to charge up to what I thought was enough and then put the headphones in. Annoying.

My wife also brought Lightning headphones, which didn't work with anything except her phone, leading to her using the cheap airline ear buds for the in flight entertainment system.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by Mtinie on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @04:10AM (#18540782)
Alternatively you can pick up a dual-port adapter and charge while you listen:

For example, https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00E5AHZYA

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by lagadu on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @05:27AM (#18541129)
I take it you only use one set of headphones and that you only ever connect them to the phone?
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by eksemplar on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @01:34AM (#18540016)
Could they have build the iPhone XS with a jack? Because if they couldn’t, I’d argue that everyone who owns one benefits from it not having a jack.

The real annoyance for me isn’t the lack of the jack, it’s that they haven’t also replaced the jack on the MacBook line yet.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by city41 on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @02:03AM (#18540154)
Why couldn’t they build it with a jack? Due to the thickness?

I’m typing this out on my iPhone 6 (which I will keep until it disintegrates because of its headphone jack) and it is plenty thin. I think only Apple themselves are obsessed with thin devices.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by jakeogh on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @02:35AM (#18540295)
Heh. No. It's about DRM. Incrementalisim is powerful. They just pretend it's not.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by hutattedonmyarm on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @02:52AM (#18540361)
The 6 is the thinnest of them, 6S and onwards are all thicker
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by Cogito on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @02:39AM (#18540309)
Thinness and waterproofing are the two things I've heard that lead to removing the jack.

Neither seems insurmountable, but if you want to try and remove as many obstacles as possible in the search of those two things then the headphone jack is apparently one of the simpler ones.

Speakers, camera lens, physical buttons, charging, and data transfer are the remaining ones I can think of, and many of those have already been replaced in some models.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by yellowapple on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @02:46AM (#18540345)
Samsung's been shipping waterproof (or at least water-resistant) headphone-jacked phones for years now.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by icebraining on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @06:16AM (#18541363)
Yeah, I mean it's not like they need to allow air to pass to the interior of the phone. All you need is a couple of exposed metal tabs, no different than the USB/lightning port.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by Cogito on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @03:00AM (#18540403)
Exactly, I think there are solutions for more or less everything I listed, or solutions could be found if necessary.

I think the headphone jack is a very practical component of the phone, and miss it regularly, but removing it does remove a few limitations on the designer.

At some point, in perhaps the not too distant future, I wouldn't be surprised if phones had been reduced down to look like not much more than a piece of glass. Maybe even a piece of flexible glass!

That's definitely been the trend for a while now, and things like edge to edge screens and wireless charging move us further in that direction. Thankfully neither of those seem to have necessitated the removal of some other function. There have been other casualties other on this path to simplification, such as the removal of the physical home button, but I don't think any which leave as big a gap as the headphone jack.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by lagadu on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @05:41AM (#18541195)
That would definitely be cool, we see them fairly often in modern scifi films/shows too nowadays.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by lagadu on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @05:39AM (#18541190)
Can't be thinness because the thinnest iphone ever is the 6s, which has a headphone jack and it can't be waterproofing because android makers seem to do waterproof phones with jacks just fine some of them even thinner than iphones too.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by flurdy on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @04:55AM (#18540979)
Nooo. Don't take my headphone port from my MBP!

In my home office, I have it wired to my simple mixer and amp with which two other computers also connect to. And from that split into my speakers and a pair of headset.

All non-digital and no USB involved with other things that can go wrong. I am no Hi-Fi buff, I just like one volume and power button when I need to silence or amp things.

Whilst commuting on the train I also use the headphone jack, even though I also have a Bluetooth headset, but it is limited to two sources which are already used up by my iPad and phone.

I don't want to yet again swear internally whilst standing on a busy tube with 1000 other people with Bluetooth devices, and having to reset the pairing on my iPad/iPhone.

Ps. I have an old phone with a 3.5mm jack, but I never use it. I use audio on my phone only when commuting or walking and then use Bluetooth. But my old iPad and MBP are stationary so I only use 3.5mm devices with them.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by AmericanChopper on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @02:13AM (#18540202)
>Wireless headphones are at a fundamental disadvantage in that they have less battery capacity than a phone.

I’ve been using a pair of beats for over a year now, and have never run out of batteries with them, even on multi-leg long haul flights. I use them constantly, and almost exclusively charge them when I have to go to a meeting, which doesn’t usually happen more than once a day. I used AirPods before then and their battery life was even better.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by arvinsim on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @01:51AM (#18540095)
> Your phone came with an adapter for them.

Not anymore

https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/12/17827970/no-more-free-iph...

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by mti27 on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @01:52PM (#18545388)
Removing this dongle is Apple's next "act of courage" :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_fvQpyuK78
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by Yetanfou on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @04:56AM (#18540987)
"AirPods" also cost about the same as one of my phones (a Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 running LineageOS [1]) which comes with a 3.5" jack. With one fell swoop I get a phone which does not phone home (other than through the radio firmware blob of course), which runs for a week on a single charge and connects to all those things with 3.5" jacks which I happen upon, be it headphones or cassette adapters or older car radios without bluetooth.

To paraphrase some marketing slogans from the days of yore:

IBM said "Think" [2]

Apple said "Think different" [3]

I say "Think wisely"

[1] https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/whyred

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_(IBM)

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_different

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by visarga on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @01:33AM (#18540012)
I have had mixed results with AirPods on a 2015 MacBook Pro. The earbuds themselves are great, the case is great, but they just don't know how to bluetooth with the laptop of the same company. Every time I put them on, the hunt for a BT connection starts. Sometimes I have to reboot my computer to make them work. It's such a shame that a behemoth like Apple can't make BT work between two of their products. In fact, it's deplorable. How could they ship such a shitty wireless thing?
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by philjohn on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @02:34AM (#18540289)
Try resetting the bluetooth card in your mac, I was having problems with mine taking several attempts to sync (and my magic mouse point blank refusing). Shift-option then click on the bluetooth icon, debug, reset bluetooth card.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by visarga on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @12:45PM (#18544586)
I know every trick because I researched many times, but they don't work. Most of the times the bluetooth just disconnects on its own right after connecting, or hangs during 'connecting'. Such a pity that these famous earbuds fail at their basic function - of producing sound.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by philjohn on Saturday December 01, 2018 @04:32PM (#18579082)
Could be you just have a duff pair and need them replaced. Apart from this one issue with the mac (which I've now fixed) they've been flawless.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by mario0b1 on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @12:56AM (#18539815)
> Fine. Your phone came with an adapter for them.

No, no, no. Can we please get rid of this adapter hell? It's awful and just way too much overhead. In every situation. No matter if phone or laptop

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by djur on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @01:13AM (#18539913)
The new iPhones do not come with a headphone adapter anymore.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by ddingus on Monday November 26, 2018 @11:37PM (#18539415)
What charges the case?

No need for a phone that requires an adapter. There are great phones that drive all audio gear nicely.

Those phones will win in the market too.

Cost / benefit ratio is more favorable. Has been, will continue to be, and that will be true because digital audio does nothing new.

Video does! We have great reasons for DV.

Those do not apply to audio. Ears are not like eyes.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by jamesrcole on Monday November 26, 2018 @11:40PM (#18539428)
> No need for a phone that requires an adapter. There are great phones that drive all audio gear nicely. Those phones will win in the market too.

Why do you say they'll win?

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by yellowapple on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @02:49AM (#18540351)
They won for me at least, given that I'm typing this on a phone with a headphone jack (a OnePlus 5T).
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by lagadu on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @05:45AM (#18541209)
As someone who also EXCLUSIVELY buys phones with minijacks I'd say that they're definitely losing, considering that the brands that carry them right now seem to only be Samsung (rumored to drop them next year) and LG. Currently I use the oneplus 6 but they dropped it for the 6T so they're out of the race. It's starting to look like the next time I upgrade it'll have to be to LG and that's assuming they stick to it.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by VonGallifrey on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @10:12AM (#18542846)
> Samsung (rumored to drop them next year)

Again? Samsung "dropped" the headphone jack once already and then decided to reintroduce it in their current line of phones. At least that is my understanding of their products with the S7/S8 having removed the headphone jack and the S9 once again featuring a headphone jack.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by jamesrcole on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @02:51AM (#18540359)
It should go without saying that a fact about a single person's purchase says nothing about what phone characteristics will win out in the market.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by ddingus on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @05:26PM (#18547437)
What overwhelming Advantage does digital-only audio deliver to the market that's worth the cost of transition to digital only audio?

With video, there's a lot of those. And today in the market we have a mix of analog and digital, mostly digital, and it mostly makes sense.

That isn't really true of audio. And it's not true because audio works very differently.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by jamesrcole on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @06:46PM (#18547983)
Why are you asking me? What about my comment, or its grand-parent comment makes you ask me that?
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by ddingus on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @07:35PM (#18548247)
Replied at wrong level. I am going to leave it.

No pressure.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by jamesrcole on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @08:17PM (#18548460)
ok
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by ddingus on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @06:53PM (#18556831)
Late, but I ran into "posting too fast", which can be frustrating at times when a discussion is good enough to warrant more participation, but I digress.

I said it in my comment(s) above.

Video, for example, works differently than audio does. Digital video brings advantages that generally outweigh costs in the majority of use cases. Analog video, like audio, does take fewer resources and can still be indicated for projects, depending.

For ordinary consumers, DV is a general win. They will move willingly and their older gear will age out and become not so useful.

DA is not a general win. Their gear will not age out, will not become less useful, etc... Unless that is artificial!

And that is exactly why "no headphone jack" is so contentious right now! Most forced migrations make sense. This one really doesn't, and it's due to the nature of audio, existing gear investments, and the fact that going digital really doesn't get a person anything new.

Above that we've got some real spiffy bits. No wires is probably the best of the lot. That's a win, but the cost of it, when one is forced to adopt only a digital path is much higher than it needs to be and everyone knows it.

Should the entire electronics industry abandon analog audio, there will be startups who embrace it. 70's era gear remains entirely relevant. And it will, again, unless forced artificially.

70's era video is marginally relevant. NTSC / PAL at SD resolutions, and on analog gear, have a few sweet spots left, but for almost everyone, using that gear does not make too much sense today.

This is absolutely HUGE.

Put another way, the winners from "no headphone jack" are largely the people not wanting to include a headphone jack. Ordinary people can get all the spiffy stuff and abandon analog as they see fit without ever being required to do or spend on things having basically no value.

I don't get anything new, and my personal cost and risk exposure related to audio goes up! And this is true for very large numbers of people.

That's a losing proposition.

I just happened to think of a great parallel: HD Radio. It's got some nice advantages, but basically does nothing new, and it does so at a very significant cost to everyone.

Said that one would fail, and it basically has. Nobody needs digital radio, and what they failed to understand was that (due to commercials and other annoyances already impacting radio), and how people use radios, and the value of the installed base of radios out there now.

Right now, if you get one of those expensive radios, there are literally give away stations, no commercials! That's how poorly the dynamics surrounding radio are understood by the bigger players. They can't give it away!

I know I would not take a free phone, sans the jack. It's way too much of a hassle to be outside a production proven, time tested, high value, audio ecosystem.

These are all reasons why people who don't really get how their customers do things are going to lose in the marketplace.

Heck, I have not even read a single reason why it has to be done!

Big content wants it, because piracy. (laughable at this point, and that's no joke)

Apple wants it, Google probably wants it, because friendly to big content, also up selling, accessory replacement selling.

Samsung shows us it's entirely possible to make an awesome phone with the jack in it. I own one, and it is actually an awesome phone. Apple has nothing on my Note 8. (But I do love Apple's approach to user data security / privacy.)

There just isn't any value added here. Worse, the cost "savings" from removing the jack is what? $50 bucks tops?

How much do adapters, new earbuds, and related bits cost over the life of the phone? What about a person's time, existing knowledge, investments in gear?

Losing proposition across the board. Again, that's why I do not see a win on this.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by asdff on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @12:41AM (#18539746)
The battery degrades pretty badly in a year.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by nerdwaller on Monday November 26, 2018 @11:12PM (#18539284)
While “we” are in the 10% I try to think about the changes in the frame of the “90/10 rule” (also how I consider the impact of features in my applications). Anecdotally, dropping the headphone jack (and similarly adding the Touch Bar) has negatively impacted 0% of non-developers I’ve talked to about both.

If I were a company, I doubt I’d change course immediately unless the larger data set said something significantly in the other direction. As developers are still, even with our more frequent “upgrade” cycle, not the largest piece of the pie.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by dragonwriter on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @02:42AM (#18540325)
> Anecdotally, dropping the headphone jack (and similarly adding the Touch Bar) has negatively impacted 0% of non-developers I’ve talked to about both.

Anecdotally, the headphone jack loss negatively impacted 100% of the non-developerd I've talked to about it. Now, I recognize the particular skew to that experience that biases it to a negative impact—most of the people I've talked to about it happened to be ballroom dance instructors or students in a ballroom teacher training program at a studio where the routine was to plug your device in to the sound system via 1/8” plug (neither keeping the adapter permanently on the phone or on the studio sound system was a viable solution for any of them, so it was one more thing to forget, misplace, etc.)

But I suspect your 100% is also skewed. Anecdotal experience usually is.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by kevincrane on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @01:34AM (#18540013)
> Anecdotally, dropping the headphone jack (and similarly adding the Touch Bar) has negatively impacted 0% of non-developers I’ve talked to about both.

How does removing the headphone benefit users? Also how does being a developer affect how one would listen to music on a phone?

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by nerdwaller on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @09:01AM (#18542290)
Lacking negative impacts doesn’t imply that there’s benefit, my anecdata seems to be mostly neutral.

The only thing that being developer hints at here is often that group is often more techie and either would be on wireless or have very strong opinions about their listening setup. But the same is likely true for audiophiles (likely skewing toward the 3.5mm).

For what it’s worth, I’m not arguing for the jack to be gone - just sharing the reception I’ve seen in my network.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by kevincrane on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @01:08PM (#18544871)
The point about developers is probably fair (I don't think I necessarily agree with it, but we're an insular enough group that it might not be inaccurate).

The headphone jack issue just seems like a solution in search of a problem. No one was complaining about headphone jacks before, so in a very best case scenario there is no positive impact (you already have bluetooth headphones, you don't mind dongles, etc), but in a worst case scenario they made life measurably worse for users (you don't own bluetooth headphones, you don't want to have to deal with dongles, EarPods are super expensive for headphones; all of these are issues which disproportionately affect the less well-off of people who can't afford the headphone upgrades, which techies tend to not be).

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by nerdwaller on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @01:23PM (#18545046)
> The headphone jack issue just seems like a solution in search of a problem.

Agreed, removing it doesn't seem like it really gained anything. It was neutral at best and likely negative on the average, perhaps my smaller network that has discussed it just isn't negative and decided to not say anything at all.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by eksemplar on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @01:01AM (#18539843)
Weird, I noticed no difference between using the headphone jack headphones or the usb-c headphones

I guess I can’t charge my phone and use headphones at the same time, but I really couldn’t before either considering the length of the charging cable.

But I guess you must always be charging your phone since the usbport is occupied?

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by mattnewton on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @02:03AM (#18540151)
A common use case for me was in the car, where I want to be charging it but also use the audio port to interface with one of those tape deck adaptors, or just a rental with a terrible Bluetooth implementation (seriously, some of them scrape all your contacts assuming it is your car, and store them in the center console).

I also have broken or lost over 3 adaptors now. This wasn’t broken and was pretty transparently done to increase the adoption rate of airpods IMO, so it is pretty frustrating. If I hadn’t had mind-blowing-ly bad experiences with samsung phones I would have jumped ship over this.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by yellowapple on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @02:55AM (#18540373)
Personally, I regularly charge my phone and listen to music through the 3.5mm jack at the same time when I'm driving (my car doesn't have Bluetooth, so I have to use one of those 3.5mm-to-cassette adapters). Using a phone that doesn't have a 3.5mm jack would mean needing to burn quite a bit more money to somehow wire up my car for Bluetooth if I want to still be able to do these things.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by eftpotrm on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @05:56AM (#18541263)
My 6yo car doesn't have bluetooth, and I regularly do long drives listening to podcasts and running satnav apps.

Thankfully I have a sensible phone, but what's the benefit to me in having a phone that can have sound output or charging but not both?

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by vinni2 on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @01:11AM (#18539900)
> but I really couldn’t before either considering the length of the charging cable.

The only place this really makes sense is on a long haul flight when you want to make sure you have fully charged phone and listen to music while falling asleep.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by intended on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @02:34AM (#18540282)
Absolutely. Any headphone i use has to go through a converter.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by S_A_P on Monday November 26, 2018 @10:43PM (#18539153)
I am happy to discuss with anyone who downvotes as to why they disagree with me. My comment may be tangental but is completely relevant to the discussion and reinforces points made in the article.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by ddingus on Monday November 26, 2018 @11:11PM (#18539277)
I agree completely. Digital video had advantages. Despite those, analog still makes some sense, if nothing but fewer resources being needed.

Outside some niche uses, digital video really does make general sense. I hear and often agree with analog arguments. I keep analog gear, and in my own hardware projects will stay analog, perhaps also having digital, depending.

But, overall? People largely benefit more from digital video, and with the loss of the CRT, adoption makes sense. Digital only gear makes sense. I have no concerns and can easily use an analog adapter in a pinch.

With audio, it is inverted! A few niche uses benefit, most do not. They are equal or very modest gain at best.

Video gear seems to age out more quickly too. Increases in resolution drive all that, and analog limits do too. Above HDTV 1920x1080, analog has real issues.

Analog audio does not have those dynamics. There is no analog cliff to drive digital gear. Great stuff from the 70's remains entirely relevant. It always will. Ears are just not like eyes.

I will never, ever buy something that only delivers audio digitally.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by S_A_P on Monday November 26, 2018 @11:13PM (#18539292)
I think you are onto something here. DRM is probably a driver here. if you have an analog signal, you can "pirate"...
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by ddingus on Monday November 26, 2018 @11:24PM (#18539346)
Sadly, that will remain true digitally too. It is just not hard to tap the signal.

I think you are right about the DRM.

It will prove to be a waste of time. Audio is too easy. Seriously.

Heck, I can make something to just write the stream to a file, and doing that is not hard. Costs less than a CD.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by rusk on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @03:51AM (#18540680)
> Heck, I can make something to just write the stream to a file

Not so easy if the analog signal only emerges at the earpiece ...

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by lloeki on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @07:32AM (#18541778)
Hint: what is the transducer itself driven by?

This analog hole is a ridiculously easy hack job with a soldering iron.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by rusk on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @08:09AM (#18541998)
Oh true - I didn't think you planned to go to such lengths (-:

"Ridiculously Easy"? - I wouldn't go that far, but very much within the realms of possibility for a determined attacker I'd say.

But down the line .. as actual physical countermeasures become more sophisticated maybe not so.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by ddingus on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @12:37PM (#18544493)
Worst case? Couple the device and a great mic in clay.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by rusk on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @01:26PM (#18545076)
sounds like a DRM sales pitch
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by ddingus on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @02:00PM (#18545475)
Well they can go right ahead. It won't really matter to me. If they end up better than me, I just don't buy that stuff. Don't need it it's a big world out there.

That's pretty much a policy. If I pay for it, fine. But I have it in generally useful form. No lock-in. Or I don't buy it.

And I don't mind hacking to get it in general useful form. Easy peasy.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by ddingus on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @12:00PM (#18544049)
Are you kidding? Go and get that signal. Even if they pot the thing, it would take a day.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by rusk on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @01:24PM (#18545053)
You have a different definition of easy from most people I know.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by ddingus on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @02:58PM (#18546095)
Grew up poor. "Easy" as well as, "do what it takes" do have very different meanings.

To me, a bit of work, perhaps gain a new skill?

Not only easy, but fun, cheap, all that.

What is hard is having to spend or do work just because of a business model. I really dislike all of that. It is visceral.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by rusk on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @03:31PM (#18546379)
With you 100%
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by labster on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @12:34AM (#18539700)
Good luck removing the analog signal from sound.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by majewsky on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @05:35AM (#18541167)
Announcing the Apple-Neuralink partnership! /s
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by ddingus on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @01:07PM (#18544851)
Someone is going to make that happen.

Then the fiction we all read about illegal implants will be reality.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by bjoli on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @01:05AM (#18539856)
Try the same kind of comment in the apple support forums and you'll see what kind of mentality die hard apple fans have. The amount of "your opinions are wrong because apple is perfect" is staggering.

I went online to get some help with what was revealed to be the infamous touch-ic issues, and I was told off in so many ways ("that's an old model, you should really get the new one", "if you get flexion based damage, you are using your phone wrong", "wow, another bend-gater. Stop bending your damn phone!").

This was after internal apple documents showed that they were aware of flexion damage before the phone was released to market.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by ggg9990 on Monday November 26, 2018 @11:42PM (#18539439)
Unsolicited tip: cultivate some misanthropy so that you can relish downvotes.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by dclowd9901 on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @01:21AM (#18539948)
That deliciousness of righteousness against hatred.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by PhasmaFelis on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @01:14AM (#18539924)
There's a few people on HN who seem to have a weirdly emotional affection for the iPhone's lack-of-headphone-jack. One guy argued that it was all worth it because it reduces dust infiltration, another because it makes it more water-resistant. (Yeah.)

I can see why someone who's never used wired earbuds wouldn't care one way or another, but I really don't understand this sort of attachment.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by arvinsim on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @01:56AM (#18540121)
It's as if the presence of the headphone jack offends them. Like, what significant negative does having a headphone jack have?
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by elp on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @02:59AM (#18540396)
A more cynical person than me would suggest that its almost like some of them are being paid.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by rusk on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @04:17AM (#18540804)
Careful now - that's the kind of sentiment that gets you flagged!
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by Izkata on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @03:02AM (#18540410)
> another because it makes it more water-resistant.

This, at least, doesn't hold at all. My last flip-phone [0] was water-resistant and still had a headphone jack - it just had a rubber cover you had to pull up to reveal it. The charging port was also protected by the same cover.

[0] https://www.cnet.com/reviews/samsung-rugby-sgh-a837-review/

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by ggg9990 on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @03:40AM (#18540622)
I like my headphone jack but I’d rather have none than one of those janky condoms.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by SSLy on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @05:07AM (#18541022)
My Samsung Galaxy S9 has a IP68 rating (it's water-resistant) and has a mini jack port.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by joelhooks on Monday November 26, 2018 @11:04PM (#18539241)
I just use the adapter and keep a couple in reserve for when I lose one.

Works great.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by umichguy on Monday November 26, 2018 @11:09PM (#18539270)
The thing is we shouldn't have to do this. The beauty of the 3.5 was the fact that you could've gone to pretty much any remote corner of the earth and you probably could've access to one if you lost yours.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by S_A_P on Monday November 26, 2018 @11:09PM (#18539271)
Hahaha. That reads straight or as sarcasm. Well done! I’m sure there are a million reasons that the 3.5 plug was holding back the iPhone, but I have yet to see even 1/1,000,000th of them in the iPhone.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by wvenable on Monday November 26, 2018 @11:05PM (#18539246)
It's no wonder Apple's profits are so high.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by ddingus on Monday November 26, 2018 @11:38PM (#18539420)
Lets say I can buy music rather than adapters.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by mh8h on Monday November 26, 2018 @11:28PM (#18539371)
It's not like the old headphones can't be used without a headphone jack. The 3.5mm-to-lightning or 3.5mm-to-usb-c dongles are small and relatively cheap. I just keep mine hooked up to my wired headphones.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by finnthehuman on Monday November 26, 2018 @11:48PM (#18539470)
>I just keep mine hooked up to my wired headphones.

This works great, until...

You leave the pair of headphones with the dongle behind by mistake and spend the rest of the day frustrated because you have access to a perfectly good pair of headphones but no the dongle.

Or you stick to one primary pair of headphones and are frequently taking the dongle on and off making it even easier to misplace or leave behind.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by _vn5r on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @12:26AM (#18539666)
If you’re constantly switching then it may be a good idea to buy another dongle.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by arvinsim on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @02:00AM (#18540134)
If you have to switch between lightning and 3.5mm constantly, how in the world does buying another dongle help?
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by Wowfunhappy on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @05:00PM (#18547242)
This is my biggest problem. Even across Apple's own line, you have iPhones with only lightning ports, and iPads with no lightning ports. If I use headphones across those different devices, I'll have to unplug and replug the adapter constantly. Which means that adapter is going to get lost.

This is all such an unnecessary problem.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by mh8h on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @12:21AM (#18539639)
It's not supposed to be perfect. It's just a solution to that problem. Remember when optical drives where removed from laptops? We had to carry an external optical drive. Some times we'd forget it. It was inconvenient. But we survived.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by jinushaun on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @12:29AM (#18539678)
No, “we” did not carry external optical drives. By the time Apple removed them, downloading music and software was already mainstream. Removing the headphone jack is not the same.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by PhasmaFelis on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @01:21AM (#18539950)
> It's not supposed to be perfect. It's just a solution to that problem.

It's frustrating to have to come up with solutions, however effective, to problems that should never have existed in the first place.

Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by city41 on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @02:08AM (#18540180)
But usb thumb drives and services like Dropbox are arguably superior to optical media. Bluetooth is not superior to wired.
Re:I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back by Wowfunhappy on Tuesday November 27, 2018 @04:57PM (#18547226)
Optical drives take up lots of space, use a lot of electricity, and have moving parts that can break easily in a portable device like a laptop. A computer like the Macbook Air would simply be impossible with an optical drive.

I'm willing to make that trade, especially given how uncommon DVD's were even by the time the MBA launched. (Although I'll note that my desktop has a BluRay drive and I wouldn't have it any other way.)

What benefit am I getting in exchange for the loss of a headphone jack? An extra couple millimeters of screen real estate?