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Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by rayiner on Thursday August 02, 2018 @12:29PM (#17672791)
Good for it. Becoming a trillion dollar company selling quality products people love. Not data mining everything about your life and using it for advertising (Google), ruthlessly destroying competition (Microsoft), or destroying the environment (Exxon). How old fashioned.
Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by tschellenbach on Thursday August 02, 2018 @12:39PM (#17672888)
On the other hand. I think Google creates way more value for the world, they are just not as good as Apple at capturing that value.

Android, Maps, Docs, Gmail, Navigation, Analytics are all (mostly) free.

Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by scarface74 on Thursday August 02, 2018 @01:07PM (#17673197)
I like Apple’s simple transaction model - I give them money and they give me stuff. My desires and thier incentives are mostly aligned.

Everything Google does is about advertising and collecting data. Those two things don’t align with my desires.

Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by kamaal on Friday August 03, 2018 @01:50AM (#17677542)
>>Those two things don’t align with my desires.

They align with the needs and wants of billions of people.

Now Apple might be ahead. But its not hard for them to lose all of that. Apple as of now is not useful to the masses in most countries. Google is.

There is a reason why companies like Dell and Microsoft ruled so much in the 90s to the 2005. Once you exhaust Steve Jobs's established product lines, you are just selling expensive cosmetic shining gadgets offering little in extra value compared to Samsung or Dell. At that time is when Google like companies will outshine Apple.

Scary thing for Apple is the new Macbook Pro already shows some of these problems. Steve Jobs is no more, and its already showing.

In fact one big revolutionary product from Google could change everything for Apple. The raw utility of Google search still far exceeds that of iPhone. And that's just one product. Maps, YouTube, Android etc have very large utility to common masses compared to iPhone.

Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by scarface74 on Friday August 03, 2018 @11:53PM (#17685296)
There is a reason why companies like Dell and Microsoft ruled so much in the 90s to the 2005. Once you exhaust Steve Jobs's established product lines, you are just selling expensive cosmetic shining gadgets offering little in extra value compared to Samsung or Dell. At that time is when Google like companies will outshine Apple.

Dell and Microsoft won when the user is not the customer - enterprise sells. Apple brought in the “consumerization of IT”. People have been predicting the death of Apple and the failure of the iPhone for 8 years. They swore Android and especially Samsung was going to take over. Samsung in fact is seeing price pressure and they are struggling - not Apple.

Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by kamaal on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @07:50AM (#17705603)
Android has already taken over in sheer usage and deployment numbers.

In fact, a lot could change over the coming years.

Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by reanimated on Sunday August 05, 2018 @05:33AM (#17690506)
>Steve Jobs is no more, and its already showing. It's interesting how many years people will still repeat that. He's gone for 7 years now. If Tim Cook wasn't fit for the job, it wouldn't have grown from $350 billion the year then Jobs leave Apple to where it is now.

>Macbook Pro already shows some of these problems It really doesn't. Apple has their fuckups time to time, like Pippin, G4 Cube, Ping, Maps or 'you're holding it wrong' iPhone 4.

Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by onion2k on Thursday August 02, 2018 @12:43PM (#17672928)
They're not free. They just don't cost money. Arguably they're very expensive.
Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by reaperducer on Thursday August 02, 2018 @12:48PM (#17672985)
They're not free. They just don't cost money. Arguably they're very expensive.

This is a distinction most people don't grasp. I didn't, myself, until recently when a briefing from the legal department resulted in scouring the word "free" from eight web sites and replacing the word with "at no cost."

Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by kolbe on Thursday August 02, 2018 @01:01PM (#17673138)
It really depends on how susceptible the particular user is to the cost of being a part Google's ad network. If Google's ad network intelligently informs you to make better consumer decisions, then you can argue that you get paid to use Google's services. But unfortunately, too many people derive extreme negative value from being a part of it by being manipulated into making decisions that harm their lives. Even poorer people could easily be paying thousands of dollars in cost to their health (sugary drink and alcohol ads), bank account (financial scam ads), and community destruction (political misinformation ads).
Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by corysama on Thursday August 02, 2018 @12:55PM (#17673073)
DuckDuckGo looking nicer every day.
Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by bduerst on Thursday August 02, 2018 @01:18PM (#17673339)
DDG is essentially just a reskin of Bing.
Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by corysama on Thursday August 02, 2018 @02:10PM (#17673898)
A privacy filter over Bing is fine by me. Lately I've been switching to incongnito every time I search for any product, video or anything to do with news or politics. It's getting ridiculous. I should just switch to DDG permanently.
Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by earenndil on Thursday August 02, 2018 @02:54PM (#17674353)
Use startpage, then. It's a reskin over google, which seems to provide better results.
Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by harias on Thursday August 02, 2018 @11:03PM (#17677022)
Yes. Google seems to think that a single video totally changes what you prefer, especially if it is some popular topic like politics or music. OTOH it'll take a lot of ted lectures and programming videos to make your feed more oriented to words those. Is it me, or does anybody else notice this?
Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by bad_user on Thursday August 02, 2018 @01:39PM (#17673560)
DDG claims to have multiple searches, like local or specialized search engines, but if Bing shuts down they would probably be in trouble.

That said it’s irrelevant. Microsoft is happy to keep the competition alive for Google and I bet they are winning some revenue from their DDG deal, so it’s a win win.

And if DDG gets big enough, and it probably is already, they can develop their own web crawler - because in case you don’t know, it’s the crawling part that’s really expensive.

Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by onion2k on Thursday August 02, 2018 @03:22PM (#17674644)
Apocryphally Bing stands for "but it's not Google", which would be delightfully apt here.
Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by josefresco on Thursday August 02, 2018 @01:32PM (#17673483)
Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by soared on Thursday August 02, 2018 @01:47PM (#17673623)
And literally billions of people don't have the money to spend on products like that but are able to use them because they can pay with their data, which has no cash value to them.
Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by rayiner on Thursday August 02, 2018 @04:38PM (#17675265)
That doesn't really make any sense, right? How can those folks' data be worth very much if they don't have the money to pay a subscription fee for Google?
Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by olalonde on Thursday August 02, 2018 @06:53PM (#17676126)
Rich folks are effectively subsidizing access for the poor. This is an advantage of Google's business model which is often overlooked by richer folks (who can easily afford subscription fees and Apple products).
Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by soared on Thursday August 02, 2018 @06:31PM (#17676018)
Aggregate with affluent people's data and it becomes valuable to advertisers who will never know the difference maybe
Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by allannienhuis on Thursday August 02, 2018 @12:55PM (#17673064)
did you misunderstand the intent of the statement? It's common usage when talking about products.
Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by dfee on Thursday August 02, 2018 @12:45PM (#17672945)
Any financial analyst would tell you their ad revenue, or even their market position would be at serious risk without each of the products you mentioned. Building and maintaining product suite is the cost on the ad revenue.
Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by mikestew on Thursday August 02, 2018 @01:30PM (#17673466)
Google's products are not free as in you don't give them something. I don't like Google's price, so I give actual 'merican dollars to Apple.
Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by chatmasta on Thursday August 02, 2018 @12:41PM (#17672901)
We can still complain about their walled-garden approach to software distribution, particularly the extortionist 30% fee and handicapping of non-native apps. Or their kowtowing to the Chinese censors.
Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by bepotts on Thursday August 02, 2018 @12:55PM (#17673068)
Their walled garden approach is looking smarter and smarter with every EU fine that gets thrown at Google.

As an aside: As an engineer, I dislike their walled garden approach; but I love their approach as a consumer. To be frank, most companies have bad taste and poor UX design. Apple doesn't knock it out the park all the time, but their products are consistently good and their design guidelines for iOS apps enforce some of the same quality. So yeah, I'll take a walled garden approach if the garden is beautiful.

Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by kodablah on Thursday August 02, 2018 @01:37PM (#17673542)
> but I love their approach as a consumer.

Quite often anti-competitive actions are beneficial to customers at the expense of other companies.

Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by bepotts on Thursday August 02, 2018 @01:48PM (#17673633)
I'm starting to see a lot of people charging Facebook/Apple/Google/Amazon with anti-competitive behavior, and yet most of the charges (including a lot of the ones the EU charges Google and Apple for) are just normal business behavior. Nobody cares about whether your smaller firm can compete against larger companies or not.

As a consumer, I don't give a damn if Apple is "mean" to your business. Learn to compete better.

If these companies are stopping a better product from coming to the market then by all means lets throw antitrust at them; but if your product is just a clone and/or lower quality product that cannot get users, nobody cares.

Sorry, but learn to compete.

Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by kodablah on Thursday August 02, 2018 @01:58PM (#17673758)
While I might agree in general (or at the least for consistent application), my point was that often things that help you hurt others. What the law considers anti-competitive and what I consider anti-competitive are different, and I wasn't addressing the law at all. People should just be aware that their consumer choices may harm others that they cannot easily see, that's all.
Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by __sr__ on Thursday August 02, 2018 @02:19PM (#17674007)
Exactly — this.

There is a major difference between what Microsoft was doing back in 90s and what Apple is doing today.

Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by scarface74 on Thursday August 02, 2018 @01:10PM (#17673234)
I don’t think you were around before the App Store. The carrier were a lot stricter about what you could sell through thier stores and the carrier took a 70% cut.

Not to mention the cut the publishers, wholesellers, and the retail stores use to take when you sold boxed software.

Their cut is the same as Google’s and Steams.

Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by chatmasta on Thursday August 02, 2018 @01:21PM (#17673387)
I was around. I had a flip phone from Boost mobile, and my ringtone was "Chain Hang Low!"
Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by dijit on Thursday August 02, 2018 @12:49PM (#17672992)
The 30% fee is not baseless.

Steam charges 30% to be on its store. Same with PlayStation and Microsoft Store.

Seems like it’s the standard distribution fee.

Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by walterbell on Thursday August 02, 2018 @12:57PM (#17673100)
Apple was the first to lead with this egregious fee. They should be forced to unbundle the fee into optional components, e.g. five components of 6% each, minimum 2 components must be chosen (12%).

That would subject each service fee component to competitive quality/demand forces within Apple, e.g. app search, trials/CRM workflow, app distribution. Developers and users can both exert choice on the subset of fees applied to a transaction, so they can provide performance-based feedback to Apple.

Even a monopolist can compete with itself, to improve service and product.

Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by scarface74 on Thursday August 02, 2018 @01:11PM (#17673261)
Apple was the first to lead with this egregious fee

Before that carriers had much higher fees when you sold J2ME apps on feature phones through thier store.

Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by walterbell on Thursday August 02, 2018 @01:28PM (#17673452)
What type of customers or market sectors bought those apps?
Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by scarface74 on Thursday August 02, 2018 @01:40PM (#17673567)
The same types of customers. For instance, back in the day around 2003-2006 Sprint sold J2ME games and apps that once you purchased them, you could redownload them on new phones.
Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by dijit on Saturday August 04, 2018 @02:07AM (#17685612)
Apple's App Store wasn't a thing when Steam Launched, same for the first party bundled licensing. (Playstation, Microsoft et al.)
Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by chatmasta on Thursday August 02, 2018 @12:53PM (#17673043)
> The 30% fee is not baseless.

I said it was extortionist, not baseless. Of course they deserve a fee. But it's extortionist in the sense that you have no choice, if you want to sell to worldwide mobile users with deep pockets. Apple also forces as many payments as possible to go through their network, and bans apps that try to take payment outside the store if the app does not provide sufficient justification. In fact, they could just probably charge 50% and developers would keep paying them...

> Steam charges 30% to be on its store

Pretty sure Steve Jobs didn't set the 30% price point by looking at the Steam store, lol. More likely it was the other way around and Steam is 30% because the App Store is 30%...

Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by xenostar on Thursday August 02, 2018 @12:52PM (#17673025)
> Or their kowtowing to the Chinese censors.

And what exactly is the alternative option for them there? They can either follow the rules in China or completely lose all of their business. That is on China, not Apple.

Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by azurezyq on Thursday August 02, 2018 @12:56PM (#17673086)
And I'm really curious why people here are not mentioning Apple gave Chinese gov access to icloud data for Chinese people. Kind of double standard I have to say...
Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by uncleartraveler on Thursday August 02, 2018 @01:19PM (#17673354)
People savage Google yesterday for launching a censored search in China. Apple essentially gives iCloud to the Chinese government and the outrage levels don't seem to be the same.
Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by harias on Thursday August 02, 2018 @11:07PM (#17677037)
Its because google has 'don't be evil' as its unofficial motto. Googlers joined google because they agreed with their ethics. People at apple knew what thy were getting into and consumers knew and expected it to remain the same. Change causes chaos in humanity.
Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by kodablah on Thursday August 02, 2018 @01:36PM (#17673520)
At least letting us know that they don't like it so at least I know it's against their principles and they might push back in other cases when asked. That they seemed so willing to do it should be the fear, not that they had to (and by the way, they didn't have to, losing all of their business is an option for principled companies).
Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by chatmasta on Thursday August 02, 2018 @12:55PM (#17673062)
They can either violate the privacy rights of Chinese citizens, or not sell to Chinese citizens at all.
Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by chickenbane on Thursday August 02, 2018 @01:05PM (#17673177)
I'm an Apple fan - congratulations to Apple - but on the other hand Apple being the biggest company in the world is pretty uninspiring. After seeing Tesla build a mass market electric car factory, or SpaceX launching a Roadster into space, a company with hundreds of billions of dollars in the bank making phones and headphones feels like a wasted opportunity.
Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by harias on Thursday August 02, 2018 @11:10PM (#17677052)
It is really hard for large companies to innovate. Especially with so little competition (I like to think that android and apple users are different demographics). It is the same case with Intel. Sometimes I'm mad at them as they are wasting valuable human time because of slower processors.
Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by scarface74 on Thursday August 02, 2018 @04:19PM (#17675112)
Tesla will only be inspiring once they can produce a product at a price that people are willing to pay and do it profitably.
Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by privacypoller on Thursday August 02, 2018 @12:44PM (#17672934)
selling luxury consumer goods that at best are "nice to have" - you need to look deeper than "oil = bad" if you truly want to assess the impact of a company. It just seems you're more concerned with 1984 than with brave new world
Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by kashyapc on Thursday August 02, 2018 @12:53PM (#17673048)
[Maybe I'm being excessively cynical]

Sorry to rain on your paradise, but is there something old-fashioned about using "Double Irish"[1] arrangement to evade legitimate taxes too?

[1] https://www.irishtimes.com/business/apple-s-cash-mountain-ho...

Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by mcphage on Thursday August 02, 2018 @02:02PM (#17673821)
Tax evasion is very old-fashioned.
Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by zeusk on Thursday August 02, 2018 @12:43PM (#17672925)
Exploiting 3rd world labor and selling overpriced crap to the rich of the world. How old fashioned.
Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by omikun on Thursday August 02, 2018 @12:56PM (#17673087)
As opposed to employing 1st world labor and let 3rd world labor starve?
Re:Apple becomes the first $1T company by zeusk on Thursday August 02, 2018 @11:26PM (#17677104)
You think, that is the only other thing they could be doing?