Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by geff82 on Monday July 30, 2018 @10:44AM
(#17644723)
This is one of the most common errors that open source projects make: not providing screenshots, not providing info for the beginner. There is almost always some "help us" or "documentation" corner on the web pages, but the screenshots, even if it is just a CLI tools, are too often missing.
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by skgoa on Tuesday July 31, 2018 @03:03AM
(#17651110)
Even a fricking "this is what it does" or "this is why our tool/distro/service is better than the thousands of alternatives" seems to be beyond most open source projects and startups. It doesn't help that the current trend is to just put up a flat landing page with exlcusively wishy-washy feel-good self-felating about their team, their mission. If the only thing I can learn about your product is that you are a group of hip young creative people who want to make my life easier in some unspecified way, I'm NOT going to sign up for a trial.
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by DogLover_ on Monday July 30, 2018 @01:45PM
(#17646389)
For me it is about seeing how a tool can be used and if it is worth installing. I am not going to bother install a tool and then try a command to see if it is worthwhile to have on my computer. I try to keep my computer junk-free so I only install something if I believe if its any worth for me.
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by __david__ on Friday August 03, 2018 @03:14AM
(#17677828)
Sure, I'm not saying you shouldn't see example command lines and their outputs. I'm just saying putting that in image form seems really stupid—I don't understand the desire/need. Anything that's in a gif should just be inline in the page as real text that you can copy and paste.
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by romwell on Monday July 30, 2018 @09:27PM
(#17649833)
And, for everyone's benefit, LICEcap[1] is a FOSS tool to make just that (animated GIFs showcasing your software) from the guy responsible for Winamp and Reaper DAW (the GIF's on the Reaper page are made using this tool).
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by adim86 on Monday July 30, 2018 @10:42AM
(#17644698)
I think the first points are the most salient. Developers undervalue the skill of marketing and sales frequently. It is one of the most powerful secondary skillsets a creator needs. If you are unable to inspire, trust and expertise you will forever have a hard time selling your product. I wrote a post on this area just a couple hours ago and what mindset can help fix that: http://blog.adimofunne.com/no-one-gives-a-shit/
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by ransom1538 on Monday July 30, 2018 @11:10AM
(#17644926)
Funny story. On my last 2 day hack project [1] I was really concerned about "no-one-gives-a-shit". So the last project I created something everyone wants: You trade Github stars. Even though the users loved it, it will not spread because on any forum/twitter/channel it is down voted almost immediately. Even though people do give a shit - the group that hates the project drowns it out.
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by adim86 on Monday July 30, 2018 @11:44AM
(#17645247)
Yeah, you raise a good point here, sometimes enemies of your product can suppress it, so it is more complex than just creating what people want sometimes. To be specific about your product, even though people want it, it feels like it is for the wrong reasons. If your product succeeds it devalues GitHub stars which is a metric taken seriously by the GitHub community. So (unintentionally) you have attacked the values of the Github community and this is why you are getting some backlash. Also, unfortunately, I think many of the people that would love your product are the people I am talking about in my post above, they are not good at selling their product or project so they try and game the system that elevates good projects. So its a short-term solution of sorts, that crowd will be better off actually learning how to market their projects than gaming systems
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by setr on Monday July 30, 2018 @04:25PM
(#17647693)
It's something a particular group already does, and wants to be more efficient about, but its clearly an abusive act that totally undermines the system in question. You're taking this operation, and pushing it out into the limelight.. the reaction of everyone outside the group in question should have been obvious.
It's like targeting the market of murderers, and giving them a better toolkit particular to their operations, and complaining that everyone who isn't your market is hating it and drowning out the product's value.
If you're going to help people do something widely reviled, then do it in secret.
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by Timpy on Monday July 30, 2018 @11:16AM
(#17644978)
I'm not trying to be inflammatory but I think the first issue that comes to mind is that giving stars at random kind of circumvents the meaning of stars.
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by pnloyd on Monday July 30, 2018 @11:42AM
(#17645239)
The the reason this is disliked is pretty obvious IMO. It's undermining the value of stars as an indicator of a projects health / usefullness. People explore tools and libraries on GitHub to incorporate into the work they do at their jobs. If this were to take off it could potentially make everyones job harder, yikes!
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by _31 on Monday July 30, 2018 @11:06AM
(#17644901)
I enjoyed your blog post, it touches on an important point that I find myself getting caught in. Explaining what I'm building in a technical manner or with a logical description that doesn't address what people really care about, "how will this product help me (save me time/money)?"
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by blensor on Monday July 30, 2018 @10:49AM
(#17644761)
My most important takeaway from my past projects is. No matter how cool/sophisticated your product is, people are interested in solving their specific problem and won't discover most of what your product can do. They are coming to your site/product because they tried to solve a specific problem.
So focus on a very narrow use case and make that as simply and frictionless as possible to solve (installers for all platforms, bundled libraries, simple tutorial for the main use cases people are downloading your software for, ...). Your product may still support all the cool stuff you put into it, but accept the fact that most people wont use those features.
Once your user is invested in your software he might try to expand his use further which is what might keep your users invested, but to get there you need those specialized narrow key use cases that are your hook to get them.
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by mattlondon on Monday July 30, 2018 @10:37AM
(#17644646)
Missing: marketing? Just being able to find the product even exists is crucial in my experience.
They wont even get to reading the description or trying out the product/demo if they don't know it exists. Point #7 is getting at this, but I personally feel like this should be Point #1 and probably also have a load of sub-points about it :-) A single post on a forum or a handful of blog/twitter posts probably isn't going to cut it.
You need relentless self-promotion via appropriate communities (which might be twitter, but possibly IRC, forums, mailing lists, hell even youtube) in a genuine & non-spammy way that is appropriate, interesting/useful, and (crucially) relevant to the people in that community/discussion. Once your product becomes more widely used and well-known enough in those communities, then it starts to become a bit more scalable since your happy users will suggest people use your tool for you, and you dont have to be the one to pounce on every opportunity to suggest people use your tool to solve their problem X.
Marketing is tough and its a really crowded space.
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by sevensor on Monday July 30, 2018 @12:19PM
(#17645591)
There's nothing wrong with this advice, but you could do everything on the checklist and still attract no users. However, I'd like to question the premise that that's a good way to measure the success of a project. Having written a very successful open-source library with one user (me), I'm quite satisfied with how it turned out. Some of my other stuff has more users, but I can't say I'm happier with it.
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by objectivetruth on Monday July 30, 2018 @06:33PM
(#17648773)
Maybe somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that there's an implied and generally understood "...that I want other people to use," at the end of that headline.
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by sevensor on Tuesday July 31, 2018 @09:21AM
(#17652890)
There is. It's what I'm responding to here; I want to contest the idea that attracting users is a measure of success. I wrote a library to do something that nobody else really wants to do. But I wanted to have it, I think it was well-executed (one design flaw notwithstanding), and I'm glad I wrote it. So it's a success, and it has exactly one user.
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by aequitas on Monday July 30, 2018 @11:02AM
(#17644871)
"4. Do you compare your tool to other similar tools so people feel educated about pros/cons of yours?"
This I find is an important one most developers forget. I want to know why you consider your tool/library different from the solutions already out there. It might be better in some respect, it might sacrifice some functionality for the benefit of simplicity, usability, etc. Or you might have created a 'yet-another-X' in which case I probably won't bother as I might already have a solution I'm fine with.
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by corobo on Monday July 30, 2018 @09:41AM
(#17644327)
Off the top of my head - different skill levels, different language barriers, different purchasing power, different management layers to sign off on a product
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by matte_black on Monday July 30, 2018 @10:13AM
(#17644510)
And at the same time, don't make the explanation sound too patronizing or infantile, or litter your landing page and docs with stupid little memes. Strike a professional tone.
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by krageon on Tuesday July 31, 2018 @06:38AM
(#17652007)
Any extra effort I have to expend to understand your thing within the first five minutes of seeing your webpage means I get closer to closing the tab and never looking at it again. I'm capable of following extremely dense developer-oriented information, but I won't do so without an extremely good reason. I'd much rather speedread through a paragraph of information that had some effort put into making it legible.
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by DC-3 on Monday July 30, 2018 @10:31AM
(#17644601)
This isn't true though.
Here's the description for, to take an example, Rust:
> Rust is a systems programming language that runs blazingly fast, prevents segfaults, and guarantees thread safety.
Succinct and understandable, and exactly what a developer chancing upon the project wants to see.
Were this to be made accessible to non-developers it would need to read something like this:
> Rust is a programming language for developing computer systems and applications that runs blazingly fast and prevents errors when programs try to access the wrong memory, or attempt to work with that memory in two different places at once.
It would be less readable and less appropriate for the primary audience of the product.
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by DC-3 on Monday July 30, 2018 @10:37AM
(#17644644)
In broad terms, I'd agree with this adage - and to bring us back to my original point, I'd argue that 'as simply as possible' is in some circumstances not understandable to non-developers and that's ok.
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by DC-3 on Monday July 30, 2018 @10:54AM
(#17644797)
Which is an even worse description because 'reliable' and 'secure' are just adjectives that can mean almost anything you want them to mean and thus tell the intelligent reader almost nothing about the product at all.
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by pdonis on Monday July 30, 2018 @11:03AM
(#17644883)
> Which is an even worse description because 'reliable' and 'secure' are just adjectives that can mean almost anything you want them to mean
To a non-technical user, they basically mean "good", which is all the non-technical user really cares about. To a non-technical user, "prevents errors when programs try to access the wrong memory, or attempt to work with that memory in two different places at once" is just as much word salad as " prevents segfaults, and guarantees thread safety". They don't know what either one means or why it's a good thing.
And the first question the technical user is going to ask is "what makes it reliable and secure?"--which is what the technical description is for.
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by DC-3 on Monday July 30, 2018 @09:38AM
(#17644307)
Why should they have to do this? Is a carpenter required to explain to an interior designer why they have a preference for a particular type of chisel?
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by grosjona on Monday July 30, 2018 @11:00AM
(#17644847)
Why would a carpenter ask an interior designer to buy a chisel?
I'm pretty sure that the interior designer just wants the furniture and trusts the carpenter to have the right tools to make it.
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by emodendroket on Monday July 30, 2018 @09:59AM
(#17644441)
He does need to justify his choice of materials and his approach -- certainly by the time he is bringing in heavy machinery. This metaphor is too muddled to tell us much.
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by personjerry on Monday July 30, 2018 @09:42AM
(#17644341)
Yes, of course. This chisel damages my designs on the table, can we use a softer one? No, we can’t because the material the table is made of won’t be malleable to any softer chisel.
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by DC-3 on Monday July 30, 2018 @09:44AM
(#17644354)
That's not a problem with the chisel, that's a problem with the carpenter. The chisel should be wholly abstracted away from the designer's perspective.
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by grosjona on Monday July 30, 2018 @10:37AM
(#17644648)
This checklist is a petty distraction from the most pertinent truth; it's all about trust.
Reputable people and companies don't trust your project because neither you nor your project have connections to famous people or companies.
Big companies don't trust projects that aren't used by other big companies. Especially open source projects; this is because
companies don't trust someone who works for free and has no skin in the game (nothing to lose).
Small companies and individual developers also tend not to trust projects that aren't already used by big companies so it's a catch 22 from any angle.
Trust in open source is about money; you need connections to big capital. Everyone follows capital like moths to a flame.
You can have the worst product in the world, but if you have connections to big corporate capital, you will succeed.
That's what I learned from my own open source work; without meaningful social connections, it took me about 10 years working nights and weekends to get one of my projects to reach 200K+ downloads per month.
I have about 4 full years of 'failed' projects behind me; even though they were actually successful from a technical perspective.
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by maze-le on Monday July 30, 2018 @10:54AM
(#17644793)
>> neither you nor your project have connections to famous companies or people
It may come across like this, but most often, a decision is made against a solution by an individual, because the risk of a project like this not being maintained after a while is quite high.
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by grosjona on Monday July 30, 2018 @11:14AM
(#17644959)
If you're talking about a small/trivial/low-complexity open source library then that is probably the whole story but if you're talking about something more ambitious and opinionated (like a framework or platform) then the element of trust becomes very significant.
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by WhitneyLand on Monday July 30, 2018 @11:23AM
(#17645043)
Related: If you’re trying to decide between two projects you want to start is there any methodical but simple way to determine which might be more useful or gain more traction?
Isn’t choosing which open source project to invest in a bit like market research, as is UI/UX design? Maybe that’s stethching an analogy.
The point is I always have strong intuitions and opinions about what project to invest time in, independent of interest/passion. However, it seems even one or two more methodical decisions processes could be provide useful data points to factor in.
If you feel roughly as passionate about two projects, why not try to maximize your chances all the work will go somewhere?
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by dredmorbius on Monday July 30, 2018 @09:50PM
(#17649923)
Good advice.
"Please forward to marketing" is based on one of my highest-rated HN comments. It starts:
Tell me what your product is. What it does, where it works, how it does it, what it requires. Is it a physical product (or is it shipped in one), an interactive application, a Web service, a programming language / tool? As a reader notes, don't make me use Wikipedia to figure out WTF your company does.
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by keredson on Tuesday July 31, 2018 @01:43AM
(#17650805)
You have to get it linked on HN for some shameless self promotion. For instance, check out my project https://github.com/keredson/gnomecast, a linux native Chromecast broadcaster for local files, which supports MKV files, subtitles and 4K! I'm only a few stars shy of 1000! Help me out here guys! =P
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by mbrumlow on Monday July 30, 2018 @11:08AM
(#17644917)
Is this the new trend?
Somebody relatively new to the tech industry who seems to have time to write tons of "expert opinions"?
I have seen more and more of these sorts of articles coming on HN, and other tech orentend places on the internet. I am starting to question if coding is the right path for anybody doing tech, and simply skip stratit to being a expert in field that takes decades to master even a small segment.
It's not every single post. The ones I am talking about are ones where they have worked a hand full of a jobs -- about a year each and yet find themself speaking at conferences and writing grand articles as if they are somehow a proven expert in the topic they are talking/writing on, but lack the actual experience to justify their stance.
To me, the real experts who have something valuable to say are probably too busy writing code and solving problems. It is not until much later in their career can they even begin to connect the dots of their mistakes and success to be able to talk about them.
I think people should be leery of advice given by those with no real track record to support their views and positions.
Yes, I know this is a bit of rant, but it seems to me that the industry is starting to look a lot like other industries where a class of people who actually can DO things are getting left at the sidelines while those who only talk about things are being trumpited as superstars and leaders of the industry -- without ever writing any significant amount of code or being a valued team member.
Please feel free to correct my thought process on this, I am open to other interpretations of what is going on.
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by Jasper_ on Monday July 30, 2018 @12:01PM
(#17645424)
Stephanie Hurlburt cofounded Binomial, which builds Basis, an image compression system that's licensed to Netflix because of its quality. She's very much an expert in her field, and she indeed writes a lot of code.
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by mbrumlow on Monday July 30, 2018 @02:41PM
(#17646863)
First off, all text available seems to indicate Basis is a WIP. Everything talks about what it will be, or how it would work, and if GPU manufacturers did X.
Furthermore Basis seems based off the open source work of Richard Geldreich. The company seems to be attempt to license this work, or license derivatives of this work. Richard appears to still be involved.
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by Jasper_ on Tuesday July 31, 2018 @02:28AM
(#17650990)
Binomial was founded by Stephanie Hurlburt and Rich Geldreich. They both work on Basis. Basis it not a WIP, it is used by games today (and also Netflix). All of this information is available on the single page that is their homepage.
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by mbrumlow on Tuesday July 31, 2018 @09:54AM
(#17653108)
> making Basis
I nearly watched/listen to everything posted by this company. Every wording in in future tense, with the exception to crush which is the free version, that had been available before the company existed, and was written by Rich Geldreich. There seems to be no information on the different between the free crush -- that existed before the founding of the company -- and the Basis, nothing you can tell from the there website anyways.
There is no doubt that people are using crush, and that even some people did buy licenses to the crush taken private version. The slides seem to indicate -- again crush is what is in use, and Basis "will" do x y or z. It seems they are using crush and basis interchangeably.
But even so, the slides clearly state that Rich wrote the software, and it seems to do so in such a way to make it clear that it was Rich. But that doesn't even matter. The point of my comments was not to argue about what somebody has or has not done.
But none of that actually matters, if I took everything the site said, and everybody else is saying here at face value the company, the people involved with maybe the exception of Rich are not industry experts on starting companies, running companies, or pioneering technology yet.
Simply having a one big named customer is like winning the lottery, so any advice anybody there would have about that would be a waste on the vast majority of people trying to start a company.
If you simply dug deeper you would see what Binomial is. The history goes a bit like this.
1) Hated interviewing (interview processes seemed to be rated if there was a job offer or not)
2) Hated working with people.
3) Found Rich.
4) Liked working with Rich, and Rich with Stephanie
5) Both decided they hated working with people and that people seem to be the problem.
6) Both decide to start working together as contractors.
7) Rich had crush, which was a successful piece of software.
8) Idea!!! Take free software and make a for pay software company out of it to pay the bills!
None of this is really up for speculation, she blogged all about it over the past 5 years.
Stephanie and Rich are super smart and talented people, and are doing some cool things.I look forward to seeing if they do become the type of people I think should be having blog post and articles posted on sites like HN. But as my main point is scuessess is not a switch, it does not happen instantly. The company, is too new, and at least the main member of it speaking at conferences and simply lack a history that suggest that they have consumed enough of information to really understand how they got to where they are and if there is anything they could say that would help others.
No I am not trying to stop people from writing about their experiences, but what I am concerned about is how HN and sites like HN seem to get flooded with tech and business articles from people who -- again -- seem to have a ton of time to write about things on a constant bases -- but lack a history around them that supports their views and thoughts on subject matters.
I have a lot more to say but don't have time time. But I should make it clear that the issues I have are with the poster, and that stupid site that concatenates tweets into articles. Things like that I feel are a plight on getting ture information transfer from those who know to those who don't know. I expect the bar to be a bit higher.
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by AndrewKemendo on Monday July 30, 2018 @02:04PM
(#17646573)
Thanks for stating the Netflix thing, I didn't know that. I was always curious why people seemed to really follow Stephanie for what seemed to be (from the website) to be a commodity product. Now it makes more sense.
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by dahart on Monday July 30, 2018 @12:06PM
(#17645467)
> Please feel free to correct my thought process on this
Okay.
- It's not a new trend. People at all levels of experience have been sharing good & bad advice for as long as talking has existed.
- Are you certain the author is inexperienced? She appears to own a functioning software company, which alone is more than most developers can say.
- So what if someone has less experience than you? This is an ad hominem argument. How much coding experience should one need before they're allowed to talk? Because the field of software development is growing, the majority of developers are newer. That will remain true until the day software development starts shrinking. What about her experience disqualifies her from sharing useful advice?
- She's right, many OSS devs complain about lack of exposure while at the same time not making it easy to understand or explain what they're doing. Programmers as a group have this problem, even very experienced programmers. She's right, the way to get attention is to spend some time making your project easy to find and easy to understand.
- She's right in a broader sense too. Good marketing is valuable, and it takes time and effort that is not programming. This applies to communication within a team, and it applies to starting businesses. This is something that took me personally a long time to learn. My decades of programming experience, surprise, didn't make me an expert in communicating the value of my software to other people.
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by Isamu on Monday July 30, 2018 @11:23AM
(#17645042)
>as if they are somehow a proven expert
This article isn't that, though. It's some common sense recommendations from a person consuming software. Almost anybody can write that, and if it's actionable advice, so much the better.
Shallow topics can afford to have new people come in and give their opinion. I've got to say though, I'm not reading lots of those articles. I'm reading the articles that have technical depth. Just my preference.
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by emddudley on Monday July 30, 2018 @01:01PM
(#17645975)
On occasion you may encounter a young person who is more talented and successful than you. It can be difficult to accept. Instead of attacking the author, why not consider her thoughts and ideas?
You've set up a strawman with some asinine assumptions about the author: "relatively new to the tech industry", "lack the actual experience to justify their stance", "without ever writing any significant amount of code or being a valued team member".
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by mbrumlow on Monday July 30, 2018 @03:31PM
(#17647266)
Please go read my comment again. I chose my words carefully not to attack the author. But to question the community in valuing a very specific type of social engineering that is occuring in the tech industry.
I am positive that Stephanie Hurlburt is smart and talented. I never intended to question those things. But question the onslaught of speakers who have don't appear to have a good backing for why they are experts other than "they spoke at conference X, therefor...". Making a single accomplishment does not automatically make you a expert. Experts are those who have spent years honing their skills and demonstrated success time and time again. An expert is not somebody who is mirly smart and talented and driven. Those qualities combined with time, successes and failures is what makes an expert an expert.
Upon second look I seem to be mostly agitated that HN has resorted to links to tweets concatenated into articles format, then suggesting buying PDF versions of said tweets.
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by detaro on Monday July 30, 2018 @12:12PM
(#17645527)
Someone running a company selling developer tools (in the widest sense) for millions probably has spent more time and effort thinking about "how to get people to use my software", and talked with more other developers (and customers) about it than "experts too busy writing code". What does qualify those "experts" to talk about it with more authority, even if we ignore the fact that someone making specialist graphics tooling probably isn't a bad programmer either, and solving problems companies are willing to pay for.
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by ouid on Monday July 30, 2018 @12:55PM
(#17645918)
As my piano teacher liked to say, 'practice makes permanent'.
It's just as important to evaluate the way you do things as it is to actually do them. Just because a method is battle tested doesn't mean that it's optimal, or even close. It's not a convex space, and it's certainly not a solved problem.
That said, I don't think that there's any particular dearth of the experts that you talk about writing about the industry. Maybe you only click on essays written by fresh talent, for some reason?
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by sbjs on Monday July 30, 2018 @11:46AM
(#17645270)
I was told that I should start speaking at conferences right away, because "teaching is the best way to learn". I guess it's supposed to motivate me to learn "faster" if I have a deadline and the pressure of regurgitating that new knowledge to a crowd? But I already learn as fast as I can. Software is my passion! All it would accomplish is making myself look foolish, and wasting an hour of a few hundred people's time.
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by s73v3r_ on Monday July 30, 2018 @01:07PM
(#17646032)
I don't think it has anything to do with learning speed, as learning "faster" isn't necessarily better, and can often be worse. The idea behind "teaching is the best way to learn" is to help reinforce the concepts, because you can't really explain them satisfactorily to someone else unless you understand it pretty well yourself.
Re:Why isn’t someone using my software product or open sourc...
by skgoa on Tuesday July 31, 2018 @03:13AM
(#17651153)
The core issue is that most true experts self-select themselves out of blogging, giving speeches etc. Instead, most experts are busy doing the work they are experts in.
So what you get is mostly non-experts writing/speaking authoritatively, which unduly misrepresents majority opinion in a field. This concept is called The Silent Majority of Experts.
Does this fit your example: My first job out of school was as a developer on WordPerfect for Windows.
In short order I came to believe there were strategic mistakes being made (not the mistakes we made in code, mistakes at the exec level), as if there were a bubble or echo chamber around certain decisions, and that these strategic errors were an existential threat to the company.
Dozens of highly paid people working on OS/2 ports, and other non mainstream platforms. Not paying enough attention to performance even as it started to hurt product reviews, because Microsoft steadily invested tons of time into optimization. Many other similar things.
I asked for sit downs with some execs to offer alternative viewpoints on a few of these issues as food for thought. They listened, and watched, a early 20’s kid who looked 18, articulate these points.
Should I have not tried to be an “expert” with three months of experience? Should they have at least allowed a second, broader meeting with key people to air out contrarian ideas? Surely I wasn’t the only one who saw these things. Could they have avoided wiping a billion dollars in value off the books if they had more seriously listened to a more diverse set of opinions and ideas?
To be clear, sometimes less experienced people come with crazy, clearly impractical, even arrogant ideas that are not fully thought through. These should be constructively criticized and usually dismissed. Just remember, it’s not that unusual for experienced professionals to do the same thing.
How is experience relevant at all except probabilistically? Ideas and approaches speak for themselves. They either have merit or they don’t.
Should we ignore someone who keeps talking about how he can make a strong case for redefining our fundamental knowledge of physics? I mean the hell he’s not even a physicist he’s just a patent clerk without a PhD (not 100% certain but if I recall correctly there were interesting results before that degree was earned). More than one person had a chance to listen and didn’t.
Of course my experiences and biases over the years have lead to this opinion, but I will never dismiss out of hand an argument that at first glance seems to be made in good faith, and appears to have had careful thought put into it.
Moreover, if the argument has these attributes, and is also contrary to what I believe while a being business critical.topic, I’m more likely to read or hear it, at least until I’m sure it’s not a perspective I have already thoroughly considered.
Some developers even do that with themes. Yeah, I am not going to DL a theme file only to find out I don't like.
[1]https://www.cockos.com/licecap/
https://www.gitstarred.com
It's like targeting the market of murderers, and giving them a better toolkit particular to their operations, and complaining that everyone who isn't your market is hating it and drowning out the product's value.
If you're going to help people do something widely reviled, then do it in secret.
So focus on a very narrow use case and make that as simply and frictionless as possible to solve (installers for all platforms, bundled libraries, simple tutorial for the main use cases people are downloading your software for, ...). Your product may still support all the cool stuff you put into it, but accept the fact that most people wont use those features.
Once your user is invested in your software he might try to expand his use further which is what might keep your users invested, but to get there you need those specialized narrow key use cases that are your hook to get them.
They wont even get to reading the description or trying out the product/demo if they don't know it exists. Point #7 is getting at this, but I personally feel like this should be Point #1 and probably also have a load of sub-points about it :-) A single post on a forum or a handful of blog/twitter posts probably isn't going to cut it.
You need relentless self-promotion via appropriate communities (which might be twitter, but possibly IRC, forums, mailing lists, hell even youtube) in a genuine & non-spammy way that is appropriate, interesting/useful, and (crucially) relevant to the people in that community/discussion. Once your product becomes more widely used and well-known enough in those communities, then it starts to become a bit more scalable since your happy users will suggest people use your tool for you, and you dont have to be the one to pounce on every opportunity to suggest people use your tool to solve their problem X.
Marketing is tough and its a really crowded space.
This I find is an important one most developers forget. I want to know why you consider your tool/library different from the solutions already out there. It might be better in some respect, it might sacrifice some functionality for the benefit of simplicity, usability, etc. Or you might have created a 'yet-another-X' in which case I probably won't bother as I might already have a solution I'm fine with.
Why?
- Features - what the tool does;
- Advantages - how are the features better than the competitors';
- Benefits - why are the advantages useful to my business.
Users (devs) are typically interested in features but the people who make usage/purchasing decisions (often non-devs) are more interested in benefits.
Here's the description for, to take an example, Rust:
> Rust is a systems programming language that runs blazingly fast, prevents segfaults, and guarantees thread safety.
Succinct and understandable, and exactly what a developer chancing upon the project wants to see.
Were this to be made accessible to non-developers it would need to read something like this:
> Rust is a programming language for developing computer systems and applications that runs blazingly fast and prevents errors when programs try to access the wrong memory, or attempt to work with that memory in two different places at once.
It would be less readable and less appropriate for the primary audience of the product.
No, it could read:
"Rust is a systems programming language that runs blazingly fast and is more reliable and secure."
To a non-technical user, they basically mean "good", which is all the non-technical user really cares about. To a non-technical user, "prevents errors when programs try to access the wrong memory, or attempt to work with that memory in two different places at once" is just as much word salad as " prevents segfaults, and guarantees thread safety". They don't know what either one means or why it's a good thing.
And the first question the technical user is going to ask is "what makes it reliable and secure?"--which is what the technical description is for.
> prevents errors when programs try to access the wrong memory
Reads as "Prevents errors when <wizardry>"
In the absence of sufficient trust, a definitive explanation is always required for a party to be at ease.
That's what I learned from my own open source work; without meaningful social connections, it took me about 10 years working nights and weekends to get one of my projects to reach 200K+ downloads per month. I have about 4 full years of 'failed' projects behind me; even though they were actually successful from a technical perspective.
It may come across like this, but most often, a decision is made against a solution by an individual, because the risk of a project like this not being maintained after a while is quite high.
I don’t mean methodical as in heavy or complex. Example, there’s a short book on designing good usability into a UX with some really simple and quick methods (https://www.amazon.com/Rocket-Surgery-Made-Easy-Yourself-ebo...).
Isn’t choosing which open source project to invest in a bit like market research, as is UI/UX design? Maybe that’s stethching an analogy.
The point is I always have strong intuitions and opinions about what project to invest time in, independent of interest/passion. However, it seems even one or two more methodical decisions processes could be provide useful data points to factor in.
If you feel roughly as passionate about two projects, why not try to maximize your chances all the work will go somewhere?
"Please forward to marketing" is based on one of my highest-rated HN comments. It starts:
Tell me what your product is. What it does, where it works, how it does it, what it requires. Is it a physical product (or is it shipped in one), an interactive application, a Web service, a programming language / tool? As a reader notes, don't make me use Wikipedia to figure out WTF your company does.
https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/27d5xr/please_...
She's crowdsourcing it, very efficient from her perspective.
Somebody relatively new to the tech industry who seems to have time to write tons of "expert opinions"?
I have seen more and more of these sorts of articles coming on HN, and other tech orentend places on the internet. I am starting to question if coding is the right path for anybody doing tech, and simply skip stratit to being a expert in field that takes decades to master even a small segment.
It's not every single post. The ones I am talking about are ones where they have worked a hand full of a jobs -- about a year each and yet find themself speaking at conferences and writing grand articles as if they are somehow a proven expert in the topic they are talking/writing on, but lack the actual experience to justify their stance.
To me, the real experts who have something valuable to say are probably too busy writing code and solving problems. It is not until much later in their career can they even begin to connect the dots of their mistakes and success to be able to talk about them.
I think people should be leery of advice given by those with no real track record to support their views and positions.
Yes, I know this is a bit of rant, but it seems to me that the industry is starting to look a lot like other industries where a class of people who actually can DO things are getting left at the sidelines while those who only talk about things are being trumpited as superstars and leaders of the industry -- without ever writing any significant amount of code or being a valued team member.
Please feel free to correct my thought process on this, I am open to other interpretations of what is going on.
Furthermore Basis seems based off the open source work of Richard Geldreich. The company seems to be attempt to license this work, or license derivatives of this work. Richard appears to still be involved.
http://www.binomial.info/
I nearly watched/listen to everything posted by this company. Every wording in in future tense, with the exception to crush which is the free version, that had been available before the company existed, and was written by Rich Geldreich. There seems to be no information on the different between the free crush -- that existed before the founding of the company -- and the Basis, nothing you can tell from the there website anyways.
There is no doubt that people are using crush, and that even some people did buy licenses to the crush taken private version. The slides seem to indicate -- again crush is what is in use, and Basis "will" do x y or z. It seems they are using crush and basis interchangeably.
But even so, the slides clearly state that Rich wrote the software, and it seems to do so in such a way to make it clear that it was Rich. But that doesn't even matter. The point of my comments was not to argue about what somebody has or has not done.
But none of that actually matters, if I took everything the site said, and everybody else is saying here at face value the company, the people involved with maybe the exception of Rich are not industry experts on starting companies, running companies, or pioneering technology yet.
Simply having a one big named customer is like winning the lottery, so any advice anybody there would have about that would be a waste on the vast majority of people trying to start a company.
If you simply dug deeper you would see what Binomial is. The history goes a bit like this.
1) Hated interviewing (interview processes seemed to be rated if there was a job offer or not) 2) Hated working with people. 3) Found Rich. 4) Liked working with Rich, and Rich with Stephanie 5) Both decided they hated working with people and that people seem to be the problem. 6) Both decide to start working together as contractors. 7) Rich had crush, which was a successful piece of software. 8) Idea!!! Take free software and make a for pay software company out of it to pay the bills!
None of this is really up for speculation, she blogged all about it over the past 5 years.
Stephanie and Rich are super smart and talented people, and are doing some cool things.I look forward to seeing if they do become the type of people I think should be having blog post and articles posted on sites like HN. But as my main point is scuessess is not a switch, it does not happen instantly. The company, is too new, and at least the main member of it speaking at conferences and simply lack a history that suggest that they have consumed enough of information to really understand how they got to where they are and if there is anything they could say that would help others.
No I am not trying to stop people from writing about their experiences, but what I am concerned about is how HN and sites like HN seem to get flooded with tech and business articles from people who -- again -- seem to have a ton of time to write about things on a constant bases -- but lack a history around them that supports their views and thoughts on subject matters.
I have a lot more to say but don't have time time. But I should make it clear that the issues I have are with the poster, and that stupid site that concatenates tweets into articles. Things like that I feel are a plight on getting ture information transfer from those who know to those who don't know. I expect the bar to be a bit higher.
Okay.
- It's not a new trend. People at all levels of experience have been sharing good & bad advice for as long as talking has existed.
- Are you certain the author is inexperienced? She appears to own a functioning software company, which alone is more than most developers can say.
- So what if someone has less experience than you? This is an ad hominem argument. How much coding experience should one need before they're allowed to talk? Because the field of software development is growing, the majority of developers are newer. That will remain true until the day software development starts shrinking. What about her experience disqualifies her from sharing useful advice?
- She's right, many OSS devs complain about lack of exposure while at the same time not making it easy to understand or explain what they're doing. Programmers as a group have this problem, even very experienced programmers. She's right, the way to get attention is to spend some time making your project easy to find and easy to understand.
- She's right in a broader sense too. Good marketing is valuable, and it takes time and effort that is not programming. This applies to communication within a team, and it applies to starting businesses. This is something that took me personally a long time to learn. My decades of programming experience, surprise, didn't make me an expert in communicating the value of my software to other people.
This article isn't that, though. It's some common sense recommendations from a person consuming software. Almost anybody can write that, and if it's actionable advice, so much the better.
Shallow topics can afford to have new people come in and give their opinion. I've got to say though, I'm not reading lots of those articles. I'm reading the articles that have technical depth. Just my preference.
You've set up a strawman with some asinine assumptions about the author: "relatively new to the tech industry", "lack the actual experience to justify their stance", "without ever writing any significant amount of code or being a valued team member".
I am positive that Stephanie Hurlburt is smart and talented. I never intended to question those things. But question the onslaught of speakers who have don't appear to have a good backing for why they are experts other than "they spoke at conference X, therefor...". Making a single accomplishment does not automatically make you a expert. Experts are those who have spent years honing their skills and demonstrated success time and time again. An expert is not somebody who is mirly smart and talented and driven. Those qualities combined with time, successes and failures is what makes an expert an expert.
Upon second look I seem to be mostly agitated that HN has resorted to links to tweets concatenated into articles format, then suggesting buying PDF versions of said tweets.
It's just as important to evaluate the way you do things as it is to actually do them. Just because a method is battle tested doesn't mean that it's optimal, or even close. It's not a convex space, and it's certainly not a solved problem.
That said, I don't think that there's any particular dearth of the experts that you talk about writing about the industry. Maybe you only click on essays written by fresh talent, for some reason?
Doesn’t this come close to veering into what WP says is a “well known as a fallacy”? (and what we all learned in whatever class that was in college? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority).
Does this fit your example: My first job out of school was as a developer on WordPerfect for Windows.
In short order I came to believe there were strategic mistakes being made (not the mistakes we made in code, mistakes at the exec level), as if there were a bubble or echo chamber around certain decisions, and that these strategic errors were an existential threat to the company.
Dozens of highly paid people working on OS/2 ports, and other non mainstream platforms. Not paying enough attention to performance even as it started to hurt product reviews, because Microsoft steadily invested tons of time into optimization. Many other similar things.
I asked for sit downs with some execs to offer alternative viewpoints on a few of these issues as food for thought. They listened, and watched, a early 20’s kid who looked 18, articulate these points.
Should I have not tried to be an “expert” with three months of experience? Should they have at least allowed a second, broader meeting with key people to air out contrarian ideas? Surely I wasn’t the only one who saw these things. Could they have avoided wiping a billion dollars in value off the books if they had more seriously listened to a more diverse set of opinions and ideas?
To be clear, sometimes less experienced people come with crazy, clearly impractical, even arrogant ideas that are not fully thought through. These should be constructively criticized and usually dismissed. Just remember, it’s not that unusual for experienced professionals to do the same thing.
How is experience relevant at all except probabilistically? Ideas and approaches speak for themselves. They either have merit or they don’t.
Should we ignore someone who keeps talking about how he can make a strong case for redefining our fundamental knowledge of physics? I mean the hell he’s not even a physicist he’s just a patent clerk without a PhD (not 100% certain but if I recall correctly there were interesting results before that degree was earned). More than one person had a chance to listen and didn’t.
Of course my experiences and biases over the years have lead to this opinion, but I will never dismiss out of hand an argument that at first glance seems to be made in good faith, and appears to have had careful thought put into it.
Moreover, if the argument has these attributes, and is also contrary to what I believe while a being business critical.topic, I’m more likely to read or hear it, at least until I’m sure it’s not a perspective I have already thoroughly considered.