Given the cultural norms around dating require men to initiate the conversation 95%+ of the time, there's a real risk of demonizing men's efforts to initiate conversation. If nobody approaches, then a lot of great connections never get formed.
If that is your impression it may say more about you than the world around you. But of course I don't know where you live.
> there's a real risk of demonizing men's efforts to initiate conversation.
I doubt the species will die out. Perhaps some of those reticent women you know will have to make more of an effort!
There is really no way to know in advance whether initiating a conversation with a stranger is welcome or not, the only way to find out is to try. It's unreasonable to place the burden of a person to signal "don't impose yourself on me" when you could simply leave them alone and not take the risk of being an inconvenience
One time, on a crowded train, an elderly lady just started talking about her visit to her lovely grandchildren and what they had been up to since her last visit. It wasn't a short story and to her it was the most fascinating experience in the world. While telling it she turned her head towards anyone who wasn't looking at her. She had quite the powerful gaze. She wasn't screaming but had a loud voice.
Eventually someone rudely interrupted her to ask her if she could stop talking. She just bluntly told him to go sit some place else. "The train is full of people silently gazing out of the window, people who forgot how to talk with others. What are you waiting for? Off you go?"
At that point the laughter made it apparent that people sitting really far away were also listening to her. She kept staring at him and kept telling him to just go away, go be miserable some place else, don't expect us to share your misery. Being made the center of attention everyone else was also looking at him. Eventually he just got up and left (producing even more laughter)
The moment he got up she continued her story exactly where she left of with a tone of voice as if the entire incident never happened.
The most interesting thing I took from the experience was how confident she was that a person who doesn't like to talk with strangers also doesn't talk back when ordered to piss off. Her involving 30 random strangers in her monologue also ruled out any physical retaliation.
After the story about her visit to the grandchildren she told us she always talked to strangers, she did this her entire life and wasn't about to stop. She got to know many nice people. She didn't like how the last few decades this made her the center of attention but felt obligated to remind us things weren't always like this.
We shouldn't let people like the guy who just left force us to stop talking. They are overstepping the bounds. It isn't for them to decide who you can or cant talk to. "Who does he think he is being so disrespectful to an elderly lady?" When she grew up one would listen to what older people had to say. They've been around, you might learn something.
It was a hilarious experience. I've been talking to random strangers ever since. At times you run into introvert people who obviously didn't talk with anyone for years. Without saying anything they reinforce the idea we should keep doing this.
Trust me, you can PM anyone you like on irc. If they say you can't do that you just tell them you just did.
The funniest resolve for the protesters you inevitably run into when doing this has to be....
Personally I would prefer the first one. Like most of people in here, I'd risk a guess.
On the other hand I don't think it's good to have people like your "elderly lady" just casually imposing themselves on a train full of others.
There's a balance in everything.
Setting the standard that telling people about your day or telling them about yourself is "imposing" is exactly the kind of thinking that's producing our society where nobody ever has a real conversation unless it's via introduction by a third party and an app first.
>Setting the standard that telling people about your day or telling them about yourself is "imposing" is exactly the kind of thinking that's producing our society where nobody ever has a real conversation unless it's via introduction by a third party and an app first.
Does "real conversation" have to happen in any particular medium, or is it the case that some prefer other mediums for "real conversation" over others?
Also, real conversations can lead to real friendships and such; I've found that hard to do virtually.
How about a society designed to allow people to choose the level of interaction they want dynamically?
Second of course. People should interact only if both of them want/need this.
I told him about my day. He looked angry at me with very large eyes and a big frown. I just continued my story as if nothing happened. He kept the face on for the first 2 minutes of it. I order a beer and one for my friend here. The added rage in his facial expression was hilarious. I continued talking about my day while drinking the beer. He looked at the glass for a few seconds and decided to drink from it.
The new facial expression was tired but slightly impressed by the way I continued to talk to him completely undisturbed.
Eventually, after 3 beers, the story about my day came to visiting a bar with only one other guest who apparently went to a public place expecting not to be talked to.
He laughed really hard. I said, hey, you got to work with what you have.
He then told the story of the very shitty day he was having. I forgot the details but it was truly a shit day.
From my experience it’s females are more likely to use this argumentation to marginalize the enemy - “nobody wants you, you are alone, go away loser”, etc. Someone might not want to share your misery some time in the future, elderly lady.
Other people haven't, but if they're irked or just shy, stuff happens.
There's no good way to be sure.
Maybe we could employ some sort of thing we could all wear if we're ok with a random conversation or something?
It's called a smile.
:)
this is rare, but i think it has poisoned the well in some places -- especially for women, these unusual but very frightening situations can make the whole thing have a negative expected value.
There's also loads of non-verbal cues which guide you to who's open to talking to or not. I don't talk to random people much, but I do get asked for directions all the time, even though I'm a 6'2 guy. I think mainly because I'll happily make eye contact and smile at random people who look as if they're a bit confused or lost. I deliver the non-verbal cue that I'm happy to help if they want it. That triggers people in need to ask for help.
If someone struggles picking up on those cues, it might be worth practising at places where people are supposed to be meeting other people. Meetups, networking events, etc.
Same for me (Even when I'm in a city for the first time). My theory was that there is a primate instinct to look for tall males for leadership — I'm calling it Silverback Syndrome.
I wonder if it really is the height.
For example, to ask for directions (Google maps often not great), or to ask if a restaurant is any good (online reviews often sparse). As a result people are much more likely to talk to each other in regular day-to-day life, and are much more equipped to handle conversations with strangers. I saw strangers talking to each other on trains all the time, and rarely was anyone seen as an "inconvenience"
Last day I was talking to one person who is working in marketing of medical instruments. I learned some new stuffs about that.
I am just massively inhibited in this regard; I don't want to intrude and is it really worth it to them? Not just in line, but even before a talk (i.e. a "networking event") or at a party.
I had a colleague who was the opposite: he could not only strike up a conversation with any random person he happened to be next to, but those often turned into real conversations (e.g. repeated email, contained talking, etc). I could never get the hang of it. (Sad to say this was his only redeeming quality).
I find it easiest to begin conversations near food or drinks because most of the time I'll pause, scout the room, and see whether I know anyone or how I have no one to talk to, and usually there will be another person doing the exact same thing. So it becomes very easy to open with one questions from the following like: Hey what do you think of the event so far? Are you excited for the event? What do you do? How do you like the food? How'd you hear about this event, etc. Pick one and see where it goes from there. You'll be able to tell whether they're interested in continuing the conversation or not, if they're not, maybe they're super hungry and they don't want to talk, or they actually need to talk to someone else. Don't take it personally but recognize social cues of when people don't want to talk to you. You can also tell when people are looking for someone or someone to talk to by how they're not talking to anyone and looking around the room. Opening a conversation with someone like that will usually be appreciated because most of the time you'll be saving them from that super awkward feeling when you know no one at a networking event.
One of the interviewees describes herself as "being born with the social skills of a used teabag"—I wonder how folks like this factor into the calculus about starting discussions with strangers. What might seem totally fine to some could come off as tone-deaf, inappropriate, or even borderline harassment to others.
And I suspect in many cases, that may stop those with those conditions even trying to attempt conversations with others, since they've heard the horror stories and fear their already tough situation could unintentionally end up becoming even tougher.
Step One: Eye contact (sustained)
Step Two: "Hello!"
Step Three: <customize in situ>If someone isn't making _actual_ eye contact with you, they're not open to being talked to. Simple as that.
If you're good enough at reading body language and talking to random people that this advice doesn't seem true.... this is probably not advice that you need. If you're like me and couldn't figure out how to determine this through other means - or are rather fearful of intruding - well, it's a real handy rubric.
But in certain situations like waiting in line at starbucks, people nearby don't usually make eye contact. It's a bit too close and uncomfortable to even begin making eye contact unless they're at least 5-8 peoples away. People seem to glance away more often in close proximity, and it's harder to look back (just my experience when I try to make eye contact with someone). And if you find them mindlessly on their phone or staring at nothing in particular, it doesn't hurt to start a conversation.
It's really important that you shouldn't have to look like you're trying to start a conversation. It should just flow and be effortless. Having said that, I have the deepest respect for people who have gone out of their way to talk to strangers and getting rejected. I always thought it was stupid, but once you have seen it in person, it's a different story. They know they have a small chance, but they play their cards anyway. Most people don't have the confidence to do this, like me.
You may find adhering to it confidence-building in situ long enough to develop more personalized (to you) skills.
What you're trying to do is establish that the eye contact is not incidental; "solid" may be a better word that "sustained".
If someone is unwilling to hold eye contact with you, they are unwilling to talk. That's the test you're trying to run.
Something I wish I would have learned and internalized at a much younger age!
Can you give an example of "personal growth"? (I'm not sure what exactly that is, but I think I need lots of that.)
I tend to be more open in talking to strangers and that has opened up worlds of opportunities to me. But the biggest benefit has certainly been in meeting people that I would liked to date. And what I realized (or read somewhere) is that if you live in a large city, you literally run into a lot of people just in the course of your day. e.g. waiting in line at starbucks, taking the train, at concerts/shows etc. And all that is really required is for one party to initiate conversation.
Let me qualify this by saying that I do not condone pestering strangers; that is borderline harassment (especially for women). But when both parties are interested/responsive, it can lead to adventures that you wouldn't have ever expected ....