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Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by staunch on Thursday January 18, 2018 @10:04PM (#16183846)
VR is still like tablets and PDAs before the iPhone and iPad. No surprise that Zuck hasn't done what Jobs did.

I'm enjoying (in a friendly way) that many people have already given up on the technology and think it's going to fade away again. Because anyone that doubts VR is real and going mainstream is going to be in for quite a surprise!

Oculus is still figuring out what the killer app for VR is, which means they've done a pretty bad job. That's what has slowed progress so much. Even this attempt at encouraging developers is weak. Where's the actual funding?! It's almost as if they don't get how big what they're doing is.

To be fair though, transforming computing can take many months even in the modern world.

Oculus should put games on the back burner and ask themselves what really cool life-improving things they could do with VR if they weren't limited by consumer pricing. They need to jump start the industry with a truly compelling experience and that might not be easy at $300.

Business customers can afford much, much more.

Just like VisiCalc launched the personal computer, so could a VR app that enables virtual offices, for example. Every tech worker could be afforded a $1-$3k head mounted display if it improved their productivity even slightly. Something like a 16K-16K display. That's a solid multi-billion dollar business that they can use to bring the amazing version mainstream.

VR could plausibly trigger a seismic shift towards remote work, transforming cities, economies, and the world. That ought to be a big enough thing to get VR off the ground initially.

Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by whywhywhywhy on Thursday January 18, 2018 @10:49PM (#16184006)
> Oculus should put games on the back burner

To be fair Oculus are one of the ones in the industry looking beyond games. Look at Oculus Medium[1], it makes something that was extremely fiddly and required hours of practice into something instantly intuitive.

I don't actually think VR will hit the mainstream, work like spreadsheets just don't benefit much from being in 3D space. The true magic of VR is the hand tracking, being able to interact with computing with both hands in 3D space.

Definitely feel VR will find it's workplace niche in the creative space rather than standard office work. Worth mentioning too that games are an innovation driver, so don't discount them so fast.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_m1Jm_Osxls

Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by andybak on Friday January 19, 2018 @07:42AM (#16185770)
Agree about the creative space but I'd like to point out there's several high quality content creation apps from other sources:

https://www.gravitysketch.com/

https://www.masterpiecevr.com/

http://lyravr.com/

http://nvrmind.io/animvr/

http://store.steampowered.com/app/606920/EXA_The_Infinite_In...

https://mindshow.com/

That's not even mentioned lots of other non-game applications. I've been trying to keep tabs on what's available on Steam and the Oculus Store: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xwqLF3CpYWxZ6kipzWGH...

Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by nickthegreek on Friday January 19, 2018 @08:59AM (#16186191)
Medium is hands down the best 3d sculpting app that's on VR right now. I was also incredibly impressed with what mindshow was capable of.
Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by banderman on Friday January 19, 2018 @10:53AM (#16187114)
There are a lot of potential medical applications that will benefit from VR. Inspecting 3D x-rays especially.

Real estate virtual tours, interior design, architecture...

Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by ericflo on Thursday January 18, 2018 @10:16PM (#16183888)
They are too busy trying to build a walled garden. They hired a bunch of console people and they see everything from that perspective, so the main goal is to sign exclusives to short term gaming hits as a way of getting more users locked into their services, not to create a general computing platform.
Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by whywhywhywhy on Thursday January 18, 2018 @10:52PM (#16184022)
You're not locked into their service at all, you can use Steam VR content on it and you can run arbitrary .exes on it.

It's less of a walled garden than tablets, smartphones or consoles which almost everyone just seems fine with.

Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by ericflo on Thursday January 18, 2018 @10:58PM (#16184045)
We're finding out the cost, now, of the extreme centralization of these platforms, especially caused by their device-locked app stores. Doubling down on the idea because people "seem fine with" it is a bad idea, especially now that we have hindsight. It's no mistake that the big innovation of the era, cryptocurrency, is happening largely outside of all the platforms you listed.

Also, I know that you can run SteamVR apps - I develop a VR game with hundreds of thousands of dollars in sales on Steam, but I've been locked out of the Oculus store for...unknown reasons? Someone behind the black box must've made a decision to block it.

Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by pjmlp on Friday January 19, 2018 @03:26AM (#16184843)
We were always fine with it, PCs were the outliers.

I never had any big issue having to deal with Spectrums, C64, Atari, Amiga, PC and their exclusives.

Likewise with all the game consoles I've owned.

Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by ryukafalz on Thursday January 18, 2018 @10:58PM (#16184046)
I think the lock-in is more regarding Oculus-exclusive content. My understanding is the community has mostly gotten those working on other headsets by now, but Oculus itself certainly hasn't helped.
Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by panic on Friday January 19, 2018 @04:01AM (#16184965)
Here's a free startup idea: the "mirror cafe". Two cafes, one in SF, one in NYC, with exactly the same layout inside (down to the positions of the tables). VR links the two spaces together. Once you put on the headset, you can see and talk to people in both places. You'd be able to "grab a coffee" with someone across the country (though you'd have to drink it with a straw to keep the coffee cup from colliding with the HMD)!
Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by andybak on Friday January 19, 2018 @07:43AM (#16185778)
That's very neat. I think there's a lot of power in having physical spaces mapped to VR. Essentially you can simulate what AR will be like in 10 years without having to wait.
Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by ybrah on Thursday January 18, 2018 @10:39PM (#16183965)
I've owned an HTC vive for a while now. Throughout all experiences, the ones that stood out the most to me were the social ones. I thoroughly believe that the future of work from home meetings will be done in VR. Playing social games and being able to convey messages through mic + body language and hand gestures is a very interesting experience. I have communicated with people who do not have any microphones, using simple hand gestures combined with motion.
Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by flohofwoe on Friday January 19, 2018 @04:07AM (#16184983)
> To be fair though, transforming computing can take many months even in the modern world.

I'm can't think of anything that has transformed computing within months out of nowhere. Usually decades of research and trial-and-error happen before everything falls into place and a new way to do things becomes 'obvious' within a short time. But you cannot ignore the decades of work that went into it, even if it isn't visible from the outside. VR is no exception, it's the 3rd decade (or more?) of serious VR research, and I guess it takes a few more decades until everything falls into place and VR becomes 'obvious' (or more likely, disappear from the public for another 20 years until the next hype cycle). Still, what happens right now is very important work for the coming generations.

Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by taneq on Friday January 19, 2018 @12:48AM (#16184384)
No-one wants to wear a VR headset for their day job. Well, I'm sure there are a few, but even among us tech fanatics it's rare.

Honestly I think the best application so far has been spicing up amusement park rides. Some of those new VR rollercoasters look amazing.

Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by tw1010 on Friday January 19, 2018 @01:12AM (#16184472)
"No-one wants to sit in front of a computer screen for 12 hours per day."

"640K ought to be enough for anybody."

Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by ddrdrck_ on Friday January 19, 2018 @08:13AM (#16185936)
In which country do you do office work 12 hours per day ?

More importantly : no one is forced to look at their computer screen for 8 or even 12 hours a day. You can take a break when you want. You can stare at the window or the roof or your nails every 5 minutes if you want. On the contrary, with a VR headset, you would have to pull it off even for a 2 seconds break. It would be a nightmare, no one is going to accept that and no one should be forced to do that (except maybe in North Korea ?)

This is one of the reasons VR will disappear once again. On the contrary, AR (augmented reality, e.g. hololens) may very well be the next big thing, once they resolve the current issues with hololens (resolution and most importantly field of vision)

Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by JibJabLab on Friday January 19, 2018 @09:39AM (#16186485)
That's the beauty of VR. You can set your environment to that of a beach so you can look away at the waves crashing. Or you can in a cozy cabin in the middle nowhere with snow falling around you. Your work screens can remain stationary while you look around.
Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by VectorLock on Friday January 19, 2018 @02:51PM (#16189176)
History is full of naysayers who were wrong.

It is equally full of eager evangelists who were also wrong.

Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by taneq on Friday January 19, 2018 @01:38AM (#16184542)
I'm not saying nobody wants to use VR in their day job. Hell, I'd love to! But I also don't want to wear an HMD (as they currently exist) because they're big and clunky and sweaty.
Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by JibJabLab on Friday January 19, 2018 @09:36AM (#16186465)
I think that's kind of the point of OP. Oculus needs to design a lightweight, comfortable version that won't be bothersome after a few hours. Not everything needs to be software.
Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by pjmlp on Friday January 19, 2018 @03:24AM (#16184837)
> Oculus should put games on the back burner and ask themselves what really cool life-improving things they could do with VR if they weren't limited by consumer pricing.

Or as Alan Kay puts it, imagine what you would like to have 15 year from now, not what you can get today (or something like that, paraphrasing).

Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by 52-6F-62 on Friday January 19, 2018 @12:02PM (#16187736)
The one thing I consistently wish for, and maybe I should get on it...

Field trips. Highly accurate (to the best of our ability) and high quality, free-roam field trips. Present day, or through time. I would LOVE to visit historical sites from various time periods, to see them in their (as known) beginning, prime, and decay.

The amount of research and work to be done to accomplish that would be staggering... but the potential for improved global and historical understanding, the impact on education, and just weeknight entertainment would be immense.

I've seen a couple primitive efforts, and they were a bit disappointing.

Let me walk around a living 19th century England. Let me visit Dylan Thomas in his writing cabin. Let me see the Parthenon and Han Dynasty China.

I would love to have this 15 years from now. Sooner, if possible!

Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by ipsum2 on Sunday January 21, 2018 @12:57AM (#16197047)
Google is offering something like this for kids now. Guided tours around famous historical places in Cardboard: https://edu.google.com/expeditions/
Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by 52-6F-62 on Sunday January 21, 2018 @01:00PM (#16199108)
Thanks for passing that along.

It's a step in the right direction. I want, greedily, a fully immersive, interactive view of historical places in their time, or at different times.

I'll definitely have a look at this, though.

Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by jamesrcole on Friday January 19, 2018 @03:25AM (#16184839)
> Oculus is still figuring out what the killer app for VR is, which means they've done a pretty bad job. [...] To be fair though, transforming computing can take many months even in the modern world.

It can take years or decades (or more) for people to figure out how to really use a new technology.

People tend to assume that the sorts of timescales that apply to applied research or product development, apply to cases like this (figuring out what to do with VR) which are basic research.

Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by empath75 on Friday January 19, 2018 @07:39AM (#16185747)
I’ve said this since before vr was released, but the closest analogy is sound cards and 3D video cards when they were first released. Most people with PCs weren’t spending $100 for a sound blaster so they could play games. They waited until sound just came with PCs.

VR won’t be a thing until headsets just start coming with new computers, and the base models of new computers have video cards fast enough to run them. It might take 5-10 years before that happens.

Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by machinehermit on Friday January 19, 2018 @07:56AM (#16185857)
Totally agree, still a decade off at least.

For me that is what makes it interesting though that you can still get in at the ground floor and have plenty of time to figure out things and be an expert before the crowd.

Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by talmand on Friday January 19, 2018 @11:47AM (#16187610)
A decade is a long, long time for such things.
Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by talmand on Friday January 19, 2018 @11:47AM (#16187605)
What we'll have 5-10 years from now will be far, far more advanced than what we have now, unless it all collapses. If the market for them holds steady I expect we'll start seeing package deals within a couple of years.
Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by Kiro on Friday January 19, 2018 @07:37AM (#16185736)
How have you missed VRChat? It's taking over. That's the killer app right there.
Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by phowat on Friday January 19, 2018 @09:12AM (#16186273)
Your comment got me curious, so I went on VRChat's steam page. This was the second "most helpful" review:

" Today I sat at a virtual bar and pretended to drink with a cat, a xenomorph, and a tiny anime girl.

What am I doing with my life.

UPDATE: So a bunch of bu's from dragon ball just invaded a cafe I was working in and started asking if we wanted to invest in bitcoin. I can't make this stuff up. This is their discord; <address> "

If that's the killer app, I wouldn't be too optimistic.

Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by banderman on Friday January 19, 2018 @11:04AM (#16187205)
Maybe some people don't remember how popular chat rooms were back in the AOL days?
Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by aruggirello on Saturday January 20, 2018 @07:03AM (#16193065)
IIRC there was a lot of kicking and banning... so what does a kick look like in the glory of VR???
Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by krapp on Saturday January 20, 2018 @07:16AM (#16193097)
>If that's the killer app, I wouldn't be too optimistic.

You could have said the same thing about the internet after seeing the web in Mosaic.

People are using VR Chat, and adoption alone is what makes a "killer app." Complexity and depth and such can come later, but only after the masses have cared long enough to build on the foundation.

Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by 52-6F-62 on Friday January 19, 2018 @12:04PM (#16187749)
Clearly you've never MS Comic Chatted ;)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Comic_Chat

Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by VectorLock on Friday January 19, 2018 @02:53PM (#16189191)
Try searching youtube for 'Uganda Knuckles' That seems to be the "killer app" for VRChat.
Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by VectorLock on Friday January 19, 2018 @02:52PM (#16189180)
VRChat is now the premier platform for people to be weirdos online.
Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by debt on Friday January 19, 2018 @01:03AM (#16184435)
“Something like a 16K-16K display. That's a solid multi-billion dollar business that they can use to bring the amazing version mainstream.”

But that doesn’t exist!

Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by deepnotderp on Friday January 19, 2018 @12:11AM (#16184274)
What's wrong with gaming in VR?
Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by SimonPStevens on Friday January 19, 2018 @03:27AM (#16184847)
I think what he is saying is that gaming is just a small part of what VR could be, so it shouldn't be the focus.

Imagine if the PC sector totally ignored all PC uses except gaming, it would still exist, but it would be a much smaller market.

Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by flohofwoe on Friday January 19, 2018 @04:19AM (#16185017)
VR gaming is the very definition of 'niche':

- VR only works well for some (fairly unpopular) gaming genres, like hardcore flight- and car-racing simulations

- it's expensive besides the headset you need a powerful gaming PC at a time when the majority of 'normal' people just use their mobile phone for some light gaming

- wearing a VR headset for more than 30 minutes becomes really uncomfortable

- the new sensation quickly wears off, same as motion controls, everyone is back to gamepad, or mouse+keyboard

- even though VR is available for mobile phones, it's not common to hang around in public with a VR headset on

Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by andybak on Friday January 19, 2018 @07:47AM (#16185802)
> VR only works well for some (fairly unpopular) gaming genres, like hardcore flight- and car-racing simulations

Those two genres are a strange choice considering the most popular VR titles fall into entirely different categories. The VR gaming ecosystem is actually fairly diverse. The main issue is 1. too many shooters and online multiplayer titles 2. Most games are short (mainly because the economics of the size of the market pushed things that way right now)

> wearing a VR headset for more than 30 minutes becomes really uncomfortable

I'd dispute "Really". Very much depends on the headset.

> the new sensation quickly wears off, same as motion controls, everyone is back to gamepad, or mouse+keyboard

This isn't true for me and many others. I'm over a year in and still regularly have that "wow" moment again. I don't think we've scratched the surface of what's possible in VR even with the current technological limitations.

Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by flohofwoe on Friday January 19, 2018 @09:28AM (#16186405)
> Those two genres are a strange choice considering...

Ah ok, I didn't have commercial success in mind, only that 'cockpit games' are a more natural fit for VR than other genres (you're sitting in a cockpit, and you're usually sitting in the real world, unless you have a enough space for room-scale VR), and the fixed reference point of the cockpit frame seems to be better for avoiding VR sickness.

Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by thenomad on Friday January 19, 2018 @05:54AM (#16185346)
It's also extremely good for RPGs and MMOs, neither of which are unpopular genres.

We haven't seen a lot of either yet, because both require considerable investment, but the first VR MMO, Orbus, is going very well, and Skyrim VR on PSVR is one of the first VR apps to really sell headsets.

(My own VR RPG also did very well, and convinced me it's a great use of the medium.)

Re:Oculus Start: Technical and Financial Resources for Begin... by ghostbrainalpha on Friday January 19, 2018 @02:45PM (#16189122)
I don't really understand the "walking" problem.

I have spent a long time in electric wheelchairs. I can move around a room with a control pad and am comfortable without getting nausea.

After a few hours won't people's brains just start to accept that walking is something we do with our thumbs now?