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Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by mstank on Thursday April 13, 2017 @11:26AM (#14107766)
"A common example is process as proxy. Good process serves you so you can serve customers. But if you’re not watchful, the process can become the thing. This can happen very easily in large organizations. The process becomes the proxy for the result you want. You stop looking at outcomes and just make sure you’re doing the process right. Gulp."

Seems like this is exactly the kind of issue companies like United Airlines suffer from.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by _gi12 on Thursday April 13, 2017 @12:05PM (#14108182)
This is a surprisingly common trap to fall into. I worked at a startup in which the CTO criticized my dev team for not having a perfectly linear burn down chart. Every week in our retro we had the same discussion about how to improve the shape of our burn down chart; we tried putting higher valued stories at the front of the queue, involving QA earlier in the sprint, and cranking out 1 pointers mid week to tweak the graph. We rarely achieved the perfect shape. On top of this we also had one week sprints, which made it difficult to plan for the future or work on spikes, so we ended up doing very little high-level, architectural planning.

I remember one week my team cranked through their allotted stories so fast that we ran out of work two or three days into the sprint. We decided to take on a couple extra easy stories that we knew we could finish before the end of the week. Rather than being praised for doing extra work, we were criticized for "introducing volatility into the sprint". In other words, we messed up the shape of the burn down chart.

I'm currently working at a place that has virtually no process, which has it's own challenges, but I'm happy that I'm not arguing about burn down charts anymore :)

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by GVIrish on Thursday April 13, 2017 @01:14PM (#14108929)
> This is a surprisingly common trap to fall into. I worked at a startup in which the CTO criticized my dev team for not having a perfectly linear burn down chart.

You are describing this far more charitably than I would. I would describe it as idiocy.

For some (idiotic) reason some management types have this belief that when they measure some metric, it should fit some ideal shape when they put it on a graph, whether or not that makes any sense.

This is exactly the fallacious thinking behind stack ranking where people persistently abuse/misunderstand the whole concept of normal distribution by changing employee evaluation scores to match a normal distribution. It's like these people took a statistics class and only remembered the shapes they saw (and really only one shape) and none of the concepts underpinning those shapes.

Anyone who subscribes to this dangerously simplistic mode of thinking shouldn't have a position of leadership. Unfortunately many times everyone in leadership subscribes to the same cargo cult so they can't hold each other accountable.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by tootie on Thursday April 13, 2017 @02:17PM (#14109538)
We had a client pushing us on our velocity. Our team was doing a quality-first approach which took far more time than the other team's approach to pitch stuff over the wall to QA and wait for bugs to roll in. Our leadership took the deliberate approach of gaming the points system to improve our appearance while keeping the team 100% focussed on deliverying quality work at the same pace we had been all along. We didn't change a thing except inflate our estimates and the client was happy :)
Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by mschuster91 on Thursday April 13, 2017 @03:14PM (#14110063)
> We didn't change a thing except inflate our estimates and the client was happy :)

Or, in other words, you follow the good old "Scotty engineering estimates" ;)

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by dangero on Thursday April 13, 2017 @12:19PM (#14108345)
I also had this happen at a company I worked at, so as the leader of the software team I had a secret meeting with them and told them going forward we would create fake burndown charts for the CTO. Totally worked. He never complained again. For all I know the CTO was reporting on burndown to his peers and superiors and was trying to tell us to make it look better.
Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by criley2 on Thursday April 13, 2017 @12:41PM (#14108602)
I'm dealing with a similar problem, except on 4 week sprints. It's not management, who doesn't care, it's the team itself which continues to be FIXATED on a burn down chart, to the extent that they massage story points, avoid doing work late in sprints, and are way too concerned with burndown in general.

Shipping valuable features without regressions is my metric of success. Not y=mx+b applied to story points.

Burn down charts are misused far too much to be considered generally valuable.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by autotypo on Thursday April 13, 2017 @03:27PM (#14110177)
This all sounds exactly like Solzhenitsyn's descriptions of Soviet factory production, where the work near the end of the month was always rushed out the door to meet quotas.

The way he tells it, no one ever got in trouble for subpar products. But if production numbers were down, someone was going to the gulag.

Apparently, consumers were aware of this and would try to obtain goods that were produced near the start of each month.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by miheermunjal on Thursday April 13, 2017 @01:35PM (#14109127)
this is exactly the CON of the burndown chart. it's a guide, nothing more. I wouldn't say its bad to learn from what the chart gives you, except if its trying to get a linear burn. In fact.... one may argue there is value in underfilling sprints (from a capacity standpoint) and then overdelivering, every time. otherwise known as... momentum or GTD
Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by Diederich on Thursday April 13, 2017 @12:14PM (#14108289)
This was happening at a startup? How common is this kind of process slavery in startups?
Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by fbonetti on Thursday April 13, 2017 @12:42PM (#14108612)
Yes, it was a VC-funded, early-stage startup.

On top of the large amount of process and the one week sprints, we also four different dev teams each working on their own microservice app which was tightly coupled to the other apps in the company. Every team had to deploy at the same time, and if one app went down, the other apps went down with it. The company's platform was essentially an ecommerce site that could have been one medium sized monolith, maintained by a single team of 5 or 6 developers, but instead we had 20+ developers, several dev managers, a scrum master, and a large QA automation team. I guess you could call it premature optimization.

There were also plenty of issues on the business side that prevented the company from truly succeeding. The place was a bit of a clusterfuck but it was an excellent learning experience.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by taurath on Thursday April 13, 2017 @01:16PM (#14108956)
Sounds like the CTO is trying to preemptively solve all the problems they had at their last company.
Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by jjeaff on Thursday April 13, 2017 @11:25PM (#14112534)
But haven't you heard the VC driven truth that it takes one woman 9 months to make a baby... But 9 women can make a baby in one month.
Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by wjamesg on Thursday April 13, 2017 @12:07PM (#14108202)
Burn down chart?
Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by throwaway343534 on Thursday April 13, 2017 @01:16PM (#14108954)
It's pointless gimmicky make-work that presents your upper management with the fantasy that development work is not a difficult bespoke engineering effort, but rather an assembly line like they studied at business school.

In order to pull off this sleight of hand, real work is broken up into elastically-sized multiples of a subjective metric called "points" which the team is allowed to estimate. This estimation game is key as it builds buy-in from the team by appearing to "give them a seat at the table." Chunking the estimations into sprints is a smoke screen to keep the scam going.

Having acquired the buy-in from the people actually doing the work, the estimates are immediately converted to commitments by tracking progress on a burn down chart and telling upper management that the project will begin at 100% work remaining and proceed in a steady, linear assembly line fashion to 0% work remaining after the time allotted.

Deviations from a steady downward slope are interpreted as failures of the development team which paradoxically reinforces the standing of the chart presenter because they are able to "show the numbers". Unchecked, this ultimately elevates them to diety-like cult standing.

As the flawed assumptions underlying the chart are never questioned after the initial implementation, the use of burn down charts ultimately ends with:

- Blue Pill Ending: the company shoots itself in the foot by firing the team for failing to make the burn-down chart linear

- Seller's Market Ending: the team gets wise to the con and leaves the company

- Red Pill Ending: the process manager is fired after heroic intervention by the technical leadership

A process manager that wants to show up with their PMI certification and their burn-down charts faces a precarious end-game.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by fbonetti on Thursday April 13, 2017 @12:10PM (#14108256)
It's a common metric used in the Scrum methodology. You start off the "sprint" with a set number of "story points" (say, 30 points), and end the sprint with zero points. When you graph the team's progress over the course of the sprint, it should ideally form a linear, downward slope.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burn_down_chart

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by sib on Thursday April 13, 2017 @03:01PM (#14109944)
It's one of the misunderstood pieces of scrum to think that burndown charts should be linear. If a team of 5 has established a velocity of 65 story points / 2-week sprint, and they accept 5, 13-point tasks for the next sprint, you'd expect a burndown chart that would look almost horizontal for the entire sprint until the very end, when it would drop vertically to the x axis. You might get linearity if there were 65, 1-point tasks...
Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by fbonetti on Thursday April 13, 2017 @05:56PM (#14111209)
I think you're getting at the heart of why burn down charts are so pointless. The shape changes sprint to sprint, depending on what kind of stories you take on. If the sprint is entirely high pointed stories, your chart will be mostly horizontal. If the sprint is entirely 1 pointers, the graph will look like an exponential decay.

Since the shape is always different, there's virtually zero useful information to take away from it.

Some people in this thread claimed that burn down charts are useful for finding out a team's capacity. I disagree - you don't need a chart for this. If your team has a target velocity of 30 points and routinely fails to meet it, reduce the target velocity. Likewise, if the team routinely completes all of their work well before the end of the sprint, slightly increase the target velocity.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by mrunkel on Friday April 14, 2017 @06:52AM (#14113686)
Exactly.

My insistence is always that what happens inside the Sprint is the concern of the development team and nobody elses.

However it's important to remember that the team itself should set their velocity in negotiation with the product owner. This shouldn't be set by some external force.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by sib on Friday April 14, 2017 @08:54PM (#14118688)
Agreed - that is part of my own distaste for them...
Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by lubesGordi on Thursday April 13, 2017 @01:49PM (#14109271)
This kind of thing makes sense if you were doing something like digging a trench, where the progress can be linear because the task A is the same as task A - 1. Why would anyone think that given a variety of tasks that each would take the same amount of time?
Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by fbonetti on Thursday April 13, 2017 @01:57PM (#14109361)
I agree. Being on the receiving end of Scrum feels like being an assembly line worker. I totally empathize with the business people who need some transparency into what the developers are working on week to week. Software is pretty abstract. I get that. But obsessing over burn down charts is the wrong way to go about it.
Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by fidget on Thursday April 13, 2017 @02:12PM (#14109490)
No one does, you estimate each task to have a different number of points, which modify the task's contribution to the burndown graph.

I guess the idea is that points should correlate to time (questionable), and if you're estimating perfectly, that should give you a linear burndown graph. Which is stupid. What might be less stupid is that if you want to get some idea of how well your team is estimating tasks, compared to i.e. this time last year, you could look at the volatility (across several sprints) this year compared to last year, and a lower burndown rate volatility might suggest that the team has improved at estimating the duration of tasks.

However, when you just focus on the volatility as a metric, then people start optimizing for it, which is not the point at all.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by GrumpyYoungMan on Thursday April 13, 2017 @04:07PM (#14110489)
The theory is that a developer can estimate the approximate difficulty of a given task relative to other tasks and thus give a coarse estimate of how long a set of tasks will take. One is supposed to use this estimate, compare it against the amount of work actually accomplished in a given period, and then project ahead against estimates work remaining to get an idea of when the project will be finished. This is intended to help managers set expectations with customers and cut or adjust features if the date is too far into the future.

Unfortunately, what most organizations actually do is use the progress estimates to try to bludgeon developers into working faster, with entirely predictable bad effects.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by polysaturate on Thursday April 13, 2017 @12:12PM (#14108267)
An actual serious answer:

It's a line chart that shows story points starting at the top left in the beginning of the sprint. Which shows all points to be done, trending towards 0 points with 0 days left in the sprint, in the lower right.

Linear means that the same points are done each day to allow the line to be perfectly linear between the top left and bottom right.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by zentiggr on Thursday April 13, 2017 @12:56PM (#14108738)
Sounds like exactly the sort of not-actually-a-real-metric metric that would entrance a number cruncher. Forget those moments of excellence where everything gels and you could get days or weeks ahead... Sigh.
Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by noxToken on Thursday April 13, 2017 @02:06PM (#14109439)
It's a metric that can help identify patterns within a team. It only works if everyone is honest with the amount of work they've done, and they consistently report time in the same manner.

A pretty common burn down chart would have a somewhat linear slope in the beginning, a somewhat less sharp slope in the middle (mid-sprint slump), and a sharper decline to close out the sprint strong. Notice I said common (more likely to happen) and not ideal, because there truly isn't such a thing as an ideal burn down chart without context. What is ideal to one person/team may be completely different to another.

I personally track my time spent in an IDE slinging code or in app testing using an external tool to help me identify patterns. Purely in terms of time spent in IDE/app, Fridays are my least productive day by about an hour. Mondays are my second least productive. I am at my peak on Wednesdays. Thus I try to shuffle heavy loads to mid-week and the easy, gimme-task for Mon/Fri.

Just like a burn down chart, there isn't some ideal way productive time spent at work should appear on a graph. Well, I guess ideal is 100% of the day in IDE/app , but productivity would plummet. Humans just are not that efficient. Graphing my time gave me insights on how my week/month plays out. Burn down charts should do the same at a team level.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by bluGill on Thursday April 13, 2017 @01:52PM (#14109309)
Actually it is a good metric. However the metric is not a linear shape, but within 20% of linear. If you are not within 20% you need to do something about it. In general once you are within that further effort towards perfection is not desirable.

Remember the real goal: money. Sometimes it is money from sales, sometimes it is money saved. (even in case of a charity where there are higher goals money is a proxy for the real goal since it can be applied to the goal in some other way). If management can predict with reasonable accuracy when features will be done they can translate that into how much it will cost. Then they compare cost vs expected rewards (expected rewards is the job of marketing) and decide if they should focus on feature A, B, or both.

Note that many managers fail to understand error bars. There is no way to know exact numbers. However you can predict your likely error, and if the error is too high you can spend more money to reduce the error.

I recommend the book "how to measure anything" for more detail.

In the mean time when management wants perfect linear burn down charts, there is only one way to achieve them: overestimate your stories, finish them early and then go home. If you are paid for a 40 hour week you should average about 15 hours a week, but once in a while you will need to work a 40 hour week (60 hours every 10 years or so). Most management considers this unreasonable (for obvious reasons), but if a perfect linear slope actually is that important to them they will agree.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by jchrisa on Thursday April 13, 2017 @05:08PM (#14110942)
Sounds about like my work habits.
Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by ge96 on Thursday April 13, 2017 @12:16PM (#14108309)
This whole time I thought it meant how long your money has going to last.
Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by dgritsko on Thursday April 13, 2017 @02:24PM (#14109608)
Are you thinking of the term "burn rate", perhaps? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burn_rate
Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by ge96 on Thursday April 13, 2017 @09:57PM (#14112222)
I think so it was from the show Silicon Valley. I know way to base your facts on a show. But I did hear that the show had at least one real engineer advisor.

Even so with regard to work vs. time what determines the time? Launch date?

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by lostlogin on Thursday April 13, 2017 @05:28PM (#14111053)
This seems to have triggered the most cynical and disillusioned thread I've ever read on HN, and there have been a couple. Well done. It would be interesting to fish out a few other HN reviews of business practices, but I don't even know the correct terms to search as they generate instant disinterest.
Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by fjdlwlv on Thursday April 13, 2017 @12:09PM (#14108239)
It's a project management strategy named for how it makes you want to burn down the office.
Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by zer0tonin on Thursday April 13, 2017 @12:08PM (#14108222)
Nice excel graph with the number of "points" burned each sprints.
Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by praetorian84 on Friday April 14, 2017 @09:01AM (#14114187)
The unhealthy fascination with burn down charts and Scrum in general continually amazes me. I have witnessed the same debates about what Scrum points system to use so many times and witnessed teams of intelligent people waste days of developer time earnestly discussing relative point values.
Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by fjdlwlv on Thursday April 13, 2017 @12:10PM (#14108245)
The trick is to retrospectively rescale the work estimates.
Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by percent on Thursday April 13, 2017 @04:17PM (#14110574)
Did you try reverse engineering the burndown?
Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by hullsean on Sunday April 23, 2017 @12:37AM (#14176527)
Oh theory... may it die a timely death
Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by smokeyj on Thursday April 13, 2017 @11:48AM (#14108004)
This is how I feel about our democratic process. The process is you pick one of two parties. Then you get into a face bloodying fight with the other party. Nothing gets done, then you pat yourself on the back for doing your part. When you come to the realization that nothing has been accomplished, you blame those who didn't participate in the brawl. Suggesting that people work ON the process rather than IN the process will get you looks as if you've just insulted their religion.
Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by smokeyj on Thursday April 13, 2017 @12:16PM (#14108312)
This comment seems to be well received based on the points. I think about this often and it drives me nuts that the two party system is the best we have. It's like we're trying to optimize an operating system at every level EXCEPT THE KERNEL. Suggesting that you don't buy into the two party system is met with skepticism, as if you're a closet supporter of one party. Or worse, that by not supporting a party you're implicitly siding with "the other side" (You know, because we're on different teams). "You're either with us or against us!!'.

Can someone just make a p2p party already? Any billionaire in SV could bankroll this project with their weekend funny money. I'd be willing to donate development hours. I'm just wondering if people would be willing to venture out of their comfort zone and "throw away their vote" for something that isn't mainstream.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by dangero on Thursday April 13, 2017 @12:23PM (#14108386)
Without runoff elections its always going to veer towards a two party system. It would work if we did two votes: vote first for who you want, then second vote for the best choice from top two.
Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by smokeyj on Thursday April 13, 2017 @12:48PM (#14108665)
Which leads to the next question. Why are we voting for a human at all? If members of an organization want a resolution passed anyone should be able to propose it - and if the magic threshold is met - then whala - the resolution is law.

I want to be able to vote everyday. I want to be able to pick who I want to represent my vote - and change it at will. I want to be able to pick Bill Gates to represent me on technology issues, and Sal Khan to represent me on education.

Government is just an organization, and an organization is a network. We should be using computer science terms to describe how we want this network to operate in terms of resolution, latency, redundancy, centralization/decentralization, upgrade protocls, failovers, and so on.

What I'm trying to say is.. Let's purge the politicians and put the people in charge.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by nebabyte on Thursday April 13, 2017 @01:21PM (#14109006)
> If members of an organization want a resolution passed anyone should be able to propose it - and if the magic threshold is met - then whala - the resolution is law.

...You just described the legislative branch. Direct democracy has its own problems; even if you scale for proportions of people, the people leading their everyday lives do not have the time to inform themselves en masse of particulars about issues, and thus would be readily swayed by false information. (As can already be seen with voting on ballot measures, which are a headache enough just being statewide)

And *viola

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by Spoom on Thursday April 13, 2017 @01:50PM (#14109282)
Direct democracy tends to lead to tyrannies of the majority. I'd much prefer a multi-party system with some form of instant-runoff voting or mixed member proportional voting.

*voila, as the French: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/voil%C3%A0

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by vkou on Thursday April 13, 2017 @03:26PM (#14110170)
Representative democracy leads to tyrranies of the oligarchy. We don't need any more evidence for this.

I too, however, would prefer a run-off election.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by pikzen on Thursday April 13, 2017 @01:47PM (#14109249)
*voila.

Unless you really meant "raped", but for some reason I feel like this isn't it :^)

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by nebabyte on Thursday April 13, 2017 @09:12PM (#14112034)
Touché. Though at least I was closer than he was :)
Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by dangero on Thursday April 13, 2017 @12:51PM (#14108691)
I agree the replacement for current democracy is more technology based with provable transparency. Bitcoin's decentralized ledger breathes a lot of life into this concept.
Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by slededit on Thursday April 13, 2017 @04:30PM (#14110673)
Its actually more surprising regions haven't figured out they can create their own voting blocs and gain outsized influence. This happens in Canada with the Bloc Quebecois basically being Quebec's political party in Canada.

They trade votes on other things for concessions with Quebec. Scotland has done similar things.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by veidr on Thursday April 13, 2017 @01:52PM (#14109311)
There's a brilliant, modern solution to this problem, and if the failed US democracy that I was born into can be fixed, I think this will be one of the cornerstones:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant-runoff_voting

It's often called RCV (Ranked Choice Voting) because that's what it was dubbed in Maine, the only US state so far to approve a plan to implement it.

It rolls the runoff(s) into one vote, and leaves the drudgery to computers (could be done by schoolchildren manually, though, or whatever).

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by nitrogen on Thursday April 13, 2017 @12:48PM (#14108668)
Seems approval voting would be easy and predictable based on http://zesty.ca/voting/sim/
Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by ranger207 on Thursday April 13, 2017 @07:48PM (#14111718)
Interactive graphs based on that research: http://ncase.me/ballot/
Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by cmurf on Thursday April 13, 2017 @12:36PM (#14108544)
There is an oligopoly in politics called Democrats and Republicans, and they've created, by law, many barriers to entry for any competing parties, let alone casting aside either party.

Disruption in this vast market is difficult. Millenials and Xers will have to team up and work cooperatively. The baby boomers have gotten Democrats and Republicans to pander to them, there is no possible way those parties go away if baby boomers have any say about it.

As to why there are two parties, it's central to how the government is configured. No runoffs, range or preference voting, means that you get punished when voting for fringe candidates, because there's a very good chance the ideological opposite will win as a result of choosing a 3rd party candidate. Majoritarian democracies like the U.K. parliamentary system tend to have only two big parties, where consensual democracies like Switzerland and Germany have many parties represented in their legislatures. The U.S. is a hybrid, but the voting mechanism results in pretty much a two party system.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by mejari on Thursday April 13, 2017 @01:02PM (#14108795)
>they've created, by law, many barriers to entry for any competing parties, let alone casting aside either party.

Do you have some examples of these types of laws?

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by Spoom on Thursday April 13, 2017 @01:53PM (#14109316)
It's not a law but the two parties control the Presidential Debates with a bipartisan commission that consistently excludes third parties: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commission_on_Presidential_Deb...

The history of it is very interesting; essentially it was formed after the League of Women Voters, who used to run the debates, stopped running them because the system had become too corrupt: "the demands of the two campaign organizations would perpetrate a fraud on the American voter."

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by cmurf on Thursday April 13, 2017 @04:01PM (#14110442)
At a federal level, the constitution itself does this structurally by requiring an absolute majority in the electoral college for a president to win; and that makes a president from an emergent third party very difficult. That party would have to already be competitive in a majority of states, but that's also difficult if that party can't ever promote someone to the presidency and use the national bully pulpit to the party's advantage. And whenever a 3rd party person appears in Congress, the existing two parties require them to caucus with either Democrats or Republicans, in order to get committee assignments and you know, do anything other than vote on stuff. You're not a legislator if you aren't on any committees.

At a state level, election laws do things like guaranteeing the two parties a position on various ballots: city, county, state, federal. But then put in all kinds of onerous requirements for other parties just to get on the ballot. While Democrats and Republicans are using resources for other things, upstart parties have to spend money and volunteers just to get signatures in order to get on ballots and appear in debates. Primaries are tax payer funded, free publicity for established parties. Numerous laws exist for small things like elections commissions only having either Democrats or Republicans seated - i.e. if you're a third party, you can't even run for a state or county elections commission, it's prohibited. These sorts of things are very state by state or even by county.

But as I indicated in my original post, it's how U.S. elections favor the lesser of two evils strategy, else you get punished when voting for who you really want. Minor parties seldom get pluralities, and they suck away votes from an ideologically similar major party candidate which can cause them to lose, and then its the ideological opponent who wins as a result. Duverger's Law is what it's called.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by mejari on Friday April 14, 2017 @09:02PM (#14118722)
For your first paragraph I agree, the Constitution does reinforce a 2-party system, but obviously the Republicans and Democrats didn't create the Constitution.

For your second paragraph, do you have examples of the "onerous requirements"? Because looking at the ballotpedia list[1] I don't see anything in there that is too onerous.

And again for your final paragraph, I agree that the system supports the lesser-of-two-evils way of thinking, but that isn't something instituted by Democrats or Republicans. It's built into the system at it's most fundamental level, the Constitution.

1: https://ballotpedia.org/Ballot_access_for_presidential_candi...

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by drostie on Thursday April 13, 2017 @02:21PM (#14109579)
It should not drive you nuts that the two-party system is the best we have. The two-party system is the natural mathematical consequence of our electoral system, "divide the land into districts and each district holds a first-past-the-post vote." Fixed-point theorems are sufficiently robust and human intellectual attitudes sufficiently squishy that we will always be coerced into this. Abstract mathematics literally caused the US civil war, and it will keep amping up the anger and mistrust and divisiveness over and over, again and again, because the fixed point of our electoral system is two parties who both say "you're either with Us or Them, you have to choose."

[I have seen a recent push of progressive voices against gerrymandering, including both political sides (e.g. Schwarzenegger on the right and John Oliver on the left)... It is important to understand that the elimination of gerrymandering would help make the parties a little more volatile and would thereby help things get done, but it is very much a "rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic" measure, the polarization and 50/50 split would stay there even if you used mathematical methods to do redistricting.]

We have a fine proportional system that we use to allocate our Representatives to the States, and it is worth remembering explicitly that the House was created to solve one big problem: we have a bicameral legislature because the Founding Fathers were split between people who said "every person should have an equal say in terms of what laws are passed" (House) and "every state should have an equal say in terms of what laws are passed" (Senate). People from low-population states did not want city-folk running over them, and that is what the Senate guarantees.

What we need is to use this same proportional system to allocate our House Representatives to the various national Parties. The founding fathers did not want to think in terms of political parties because they were all big intelligentsia egos who figured that you'd want to really know who you were voting for. What they didn't consider is that in a fork-o-philic model, someone can basically just make their own party about their personality and they'll get one or more seats if they're influential enough. (A great example is Trump's analogue in the Netherlands, a man named Geert Wilders, who basically just made a party that was about him and his own isolationist nationalism and it has been remarkably successful as the Netherlands has similar pressures to those that got Trump elected.)

No more gerrymandering, no more 50/50 partisan split: for the House, everyone gets an equal vote for a party, and the parties get proportional representation in the House via their Webster allocation of delegates. While the party composition starts off Republican vs. Democrat, in short order the Freedom Caucus and Green Party and Libertarians and so on will have their own representation there, too. The 50/50 split in the Senate will probably still infect the House, and your parties in the House will consistently be "left-ish" and "right-ish", but the openly nonpartisan House politics will also feed back into the Senate and kill some major road-blocks.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by glial on Thursday April 13, 2017 @08:39PM (#14111896)
I agree 100%. Eliminating gerrymandering is only going to lessen the two-party polarization problem, not solve it.

From what I understand the party proportional system is what's used by Germany, Japan, and many other nations with modern constitutions.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by cmurf on Thursday April 13, 2017 @12:22PM (#14108381)
It's more complicated than this. And because it's so complicated, people look at ways to make participation more efficient. Party affiliation happens to be the most common way people participate, because it's efficient. But it is inherently inaccurate, you don't actually know the person you're really voting for with this method, and you don't know their position on specific issues, and you don't even know non-political things about them.

We also aren't even a majoritarian democracy, often the winner has only a plurality of votes. Most voter eligible citizens don't vote (in the U.S. where it's not compulsory). We don't have range or preference voting, or run offs. All of these have consequences in the outcome.

I don't see many brawls in politics. That's maybe at dinner parties, on TV, and in forums. City council meetings are pretty boring and docile. D.C. has lots of nice friendly people (haha), which maybe superficial, but they have more manners than brawls day to day.

Possibly the one thing going on right now that left, right, hard left, hard right, center, and maybe even non-participants can agree on is a constitutional amendment to get money out of politics. Entirely out. Publicly funded elections, do the hard work yourself, with volunteers, not moneyed special interests paying for your ads and so on. It would take an amendment because money is considered speech by SCOTUS, corporations have speech rights, so they can pretty much spend whatever they want on any message for any candidate. And those interests throw red meat to activate the brawls you see. They love that. It raises money. Activates people to vote who'd otherwise stay at home.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by taurath on Thursday April 13, 2017 @02:09PM (#14109463)
Most of the republicans I know have reflectively taken the position that money is speech, and they know it because thats what their reps vote for.
Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by sinnoh on Thursday April 13, 2017 @01:16PM (#14108958)
> This is how I feel about our democratic process.

Oh it's applicable anywhere humans interact in modelled systems. It happens in writing too - some team might be in a creative mindset and write some funny or brilliant work; a subsequent team either accurately recreates the mindset and creates a 'true spiritual successor' to the original work that can develop things like 'where that story would have gone, taken to its natural conclusion' or 're-tell it better' or so forth;

or they can simply mimic the 'formulas' or even just 'copy the original jokes' and 'miss the point'.

I might have a list of these.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by dpark on Thursday April 13, 2017 @11:35AM (#14107869)
> It’s not that rare to hear a junior leader defend a bad outcome with something like, “Well, we followed the process.” - Bezos

> We sought volunteers and then followed our involuntary denial of boarding process - Munoz

Ouch

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by TheGRS on Thursday April 13, 2017 @12:07PM (#14108206)
Yea, I'm not going to share which airline or which branch (other than to say it wasn't United or Chicago), but I have a relative who works at a pretty high position in one of them and they were, to my great surprise, in defense of United and the police in that episode earlier this week. Statements like "airlines bump people all the time", "they can't offer anymore than what they did, its a set rule", and "if they just complied none of this would have happened, its a crime to disagree with flight crew" kept coming up. This is the mentality that permeates the airline industry and is what lead to that episode. They don't put satisfying the customer above following the rules. Its also why no one who has flown much was particularly surprised it happened in the first place.
Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by GVIrish on Thursday April 13, 2017 @01:21PM (#14109008)
I think there are two problems here.

One is that since 9/11 the airline industry has gotten far more comfortable with calling the police to remove passengers. In some cases it's totally justified. But in others airlines are jumping to the threat of police force in order to "solve" issues with customers. Basically using the stick instead of the carrot because the stick is easier and costs less money.

The second problem is a far more pervasive problem in society where people excuse the use of force on someone simply because that person didn't comply with a minor request. This is how someone who didn't want to accept a ticket for selling bootleg cigarettes ended up dead. Or the guy just this week who got pummeled by a police officer for jaywalking. "Just comply" they say. Sure, but it doesn't mean you should be beaten, bloodied, or even killed for not complying.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by positivejam on Thursday April 13, 2017 @12:45PM (#14108630)
Re: the notion that "airlines bump people all the time", there are those arguing that while it is indeed lawful and routine for airlines to bump passengers due to overbooking, this was not a case of overbooking, and once a passenger has taken their seat they have very different rights than when they are still waiting to board the plane. I am by no means an expert, but I found this article (posted on HN yesterday) to be illuminating: http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017/04/united-passenger-remo...

Basically, this wasn't just poor customer service, it was a violation of rules.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by TheGRS on Thursday April 13, 2017 @01:09PM (#14108877)
As I understand it they followed the procedures and rules just as they are defined and in the law. Had the guy willfully gotten out of his seat he would have been compensated the "involuntary bumping" rate that is set by the Dept of Transportation.

But the fact that United got to that point is the problem. They had the option to offer more money for volunteers, they even had the option to find a different flight for their employees, or maybe send them on a cab ride instead (one passenger in the video even pointed this out while it was happening). Of course, the excessive use of force is on the police and they should be the ones outside of the law on this one, I don't believe being loud in that situation warrants you get a concussion, that's just wrong.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by lutorm on Thursday April 13, 2017 @02:55PM (#14109883)
As I understand it, it's unclear whether they followed procedures and the law. The law and procedures governing oversales allow "involuntarily denied boarding" if there aren't enough seats. However, a completely different section of the contract governs the circumstances under which a passenger may be removed from a plane, and that basically comes down to safety.

Some people argue that "boarding" continues until the plane is in the air and that the airline can execute their right to involuntarily "denying boarding" to any passenger up to that point. Others argue that the plain meaning of the word means that once you are "aboard" the aircraft, you can no longer (legally) deny someone boarding. They argue that since the contract of carriage does not define "boarding", it must be construed to have the plain language meaning (as in the United CEO in his statement saying that "the flight was fully boarded".)

Airlines may do it all the time but, as far as I can tell, a court has never ruled on when "denying boarding" ends and "removal from aircraft" starts. Maybe now we will find out.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by lutorm on Thursday April 13, 2017 @02:48PM (#14109816)
"they can't offer anymore than what they did, its a set rule"

That's complete BS. It may be a United rule, but the law only defines how much they are required to compensate people who are denied boarding. When asking passengers to voluntarily not get on the flight, they are free to negotiate any deal that is acceptable to the two parties.

That the airline doesn't have to offer more before they execute the involuntary denial of boarding somehow has gotten twisted into the fact that they can't. That's simply not true, they just chose the cheapest way out.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by TheGRS on Monday April 17, 2017 @02:02AM (#14129455)
Yea totally agreed and I pointed this out. The rules from the Dept. of Transportation are for consumer protection and not for airline protection. But you are correct that employees have now twisted this to mean that they are "legally" bound to pay a certain amount and no more, which is horse hockey.
Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by AdamN on Thursday April 13, 2017 @01:05PM (#14108830)
I'm sympathetic to the airline execs who feel this way - they're right (technically).

However, they're missing the forest for the trees. Their processes are so bad that this type of thing actually ends up happening–which is the symptom of a marge larger loss of trust.

I fly less than I otherwise would if it was a dignified experience. Right now smart VCs are thinking about how to reinvent airlines and let's hope they get in soon.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by TheGRS on Thursday April 13, 2017 @01:15PM (#14108942)
There's a quote that goes something like "never let a good catastrophe go to waste" or something like that. This would be a pretty good time for a start-up airline to step in and shake things up.

Problem with the airline industry is that its about as far from free market as you can get. The routes are set by the DOT and auctioned and traded among airlines like football players on an NFL team. And just like the NFL its almost impossible to bring a new team in because of the rules and the massive capital it would take. AFAIK there are a few options for companies that want to operate outside of the normal airport and commercial airline structure, but they are very limited.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by nradov on Thursday April 13, 2017 @03:17PM (#14110082)
The DOT doesn't set routes. The limitation is on landing slots and gates at the busiest airports; existing airlines have those locked up and so new entrants are forced to smaller outlying airports. The FAA does impose some air corridors which might prevent you from flying a direct path, but that's for safety and traffic management.
Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by teyc on Saturday April 15, 2017 @06:36AM (#14120191)
This.

I pity Munoz because culture can be hard to shift that people no longer recognize that their business revolves around service, and employees with poor people skills get promoted because they achieve their KPIs by acting against common sense.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by elevensies on Thursday April 13, 2017 @05:28PM (#14111061)
I think they handled it poorly, but there is no way that a passenger's wishes will override the pilot or the airline. They probably thought he would come to his senses when the cops showed up, I think that is where they screwed up, IMO they should have disembarked the rest of the plane and then arrested him in-place.

Whether or not bumping him is fair, there is no question about who owns the aircraft and has responsibility/authority. No one would want to fly on an airline where a stubborn passenger could override the flight crew.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by lutorm on Thursday April 13, 2017 @06:19PM (#14111322)
There may not be a question of who owns the aircraft, but there are definitely questions of whether they have a legal right to force someone from whom they have accepted money in exchange for allowing them onto their property merely minutes earlier and who has not in any way violated the contract.

People seem to think that flight crew somehow have been ordained with god-given authority to suspend the rule of law aboard an aircraft. That is simply not true. People are legally required to obey safety-related crew instructions and placards.

The idea that if the flight crew instructs you to strip naked you are somehow required to obey and if you do not they have a right to eject you from the airplane is frankly ridiculous.

But it doesn't even matter, because the airplane was not in flight, 14 CFR Part 121 does not apply, and the people acting in question were gate personnel, not flight crew.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by elevensies on Thursday April 13, 2017 @07:10PM (#14111552)
I think that refusing to leave someone else's private property makes the use of force inevitable. I would expect him to be treated essentially the same if he refused after being asked to leave a bar, a movie theater, someone's home, etc.

I'm not aware of any situation where you can legally be involuntarily strip-searched without being arrested. Maybe by customs but I'm not sure.

Personally, if the flight crew instructed me to strip naked or leave the plane, I would just leave. I can't foresee any situation where I would physically fight the staff for my seat, or recommend anyone else to do so.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by lutorm on Thursday April 13, 2017 @07:45PM (#14111701)
I think that refusing to leave someone else's private property makes the use of force inevitable.

I know Americans are a bit high-strung when it comes to "property rights", but here's one example: It may be your property all you want but you can't call the police to kick your tenants out because you decided you don't want them there any longer. IF there has been a contract violation, you can go to court and eventually get an enforceable court order, but if you call the police and tell them to kick your tenants out because you just changed your mind about renting it to them, they're more likely to laugh in your face.

That is what the police should have done in this case. Once they ascertained that the passenger ticketed in his seat and was not a safety issue, they should have said "sorry, this is a contract dispute. You can take him to court."

Edit: Note that after kicking him out he was not arrested and has not been charged with any crime that I've heard of.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by elevensies on Thursday April 13, 2017 @08:24PM (#14111840)
Tenancy has strong and unique protections. If you are a tenant you can call the police to kick out your landlord if they are not within their access rights. Someone has the exclusive right to use the space, but it is not the landlord.

I think both of us have a very strong sense of property rights, only we disagree who to ascribe them to. I think it belongs to the airline, so if the man wants to create a dispute with the airline, he should be the one to take it to court (and he probably will.) From my POV, you are saying the man has property rights over the seat because he had a ticket for it and had his arse is in it.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by lutorm on Thursday April 13, 2017 @10:09PM (#14112271)
Sure, tenancy is special. But so is common carriage: "A common carrier holds itself out to provide service to the general public without discrimination (to meet the needs of the regulator's quasi judicial role of impartiality toward the public's interest) for the "public convenience and necessity". A common carrier must further demonstrate to the regulator that it is "fit, willing, and able" to provide those services for which it is granted authority."

We are not talking about a random piece of property being trespassed upon here. We are talking specifically about a situation where the airline is licensed to take money from the public in exchange for letting people put their "arses" in those seats.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by matz1 on Thursday April 13, 2017 @01:14PM (#14108924)
Because they are that powerful, they know it won't hurt them much, for example I will still fly united if the ticket is $10 less.
Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by dpark on Thursday April 13, 2017 @07:59PM (#14111766)
> for example I will still fly united if the ticket is $10 less.

I won't. I had to save me at least $100 before I'll choose United. Which has nothing to do with this case. I just really don't like United due to previous experiences.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by ryandrake on Thursday April 13, 2017 @01:13PM (#14108920)
Isn't this the standard corporate PR response when a company does something wrong? "We followed our internal process, so everything is cool! I guess we're done here!"
Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by hinkley on Thursday April 13, 2017 @11:51AM (#14108038)
tl;dr: the map is not the territory

This problem is pretty much every company I've ever worked for if/when they got over six engineers. I spend more time and a hell of a lot more energy than I should trying to keep managers or easily enthused engineers from hugging the project to death.

I ended up becoming a process expert out of a sense of self preservation. I use process a lot, but it's always in support of the 'why's. I don't always talk about the 5 Whys but it's always there, and in my experience the people who are usually the problem can't ever manage more than three.

The worst of these are also the sort of people who, if your speedometer was broken, would insist that the car is not moving. Even after you told them to look out the window.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by fbonetti on Thursday April 13, 2017 @12:07PM (#14108208)
> The worst of these are also the sort of people who, if your speedometer was broken, would insist that the car is not moving. Even after you told them to look out the window.

That's an amazing quote. I'm totally stealing this.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by Retric on Thursday April 13, 2017 @11:55AM (#14108087)
Your trying to solve the wrong problem, it's generally a people problem not a process problem.
Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by hinkley on Thursday April 13, 2017 @03:55PM (#14110404)
The people problem is that everyone has the instinct to solve problems with rules, but not the energy or interest to do it properly.

If you don't try to steer the conversation toward reversible decisions AND avoid trivialities then you spend your problem solving budget on actively harmful plans.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by ryandrake on Thursday April 13, 2017 @12:17PM (#14108321)
Reminds me of that Steve Jobs quote about IBM:

“People get confused; companies get confused. When they start getting bigger, they want to replicate their initial success. And a lot of them think, ‘Well, somehow, there’s some magic in the process of how that success was created.’ So they start to institutionalize process across the company. And before very long, people start to get confused that the process is the content."

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by partisan on Thursday April 13, 2017 @12:00PM (#14108137)
Whenever a junior team member comes to me for help, the first question I ask is, "what are we trying to accomplish". Unfortunately, we have a tendency to lose sight of purpose when going through process. Discussions usually start with what they have tried and what they are doing, but when the question of purpose is asked, it's easier to see the steps to get the result.
Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by tyingq on Thursday April 13, 2017 @11:34AM (#14107850)
Amazon is guilty of this, not so much with customers, but with partners/sellers.
Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by eloisant on Thursday April 13, 2017 @11:53AM (#14108058)
I don't think it's because they care too much of the process, but because they value consumers much more than sellers.
Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by tyingq on Thursday April 13, 2017 @11:55AM (#14108086)
I'm thinking, for example, how they dealt with the recent issues of counterfeit books. Their process did not help the seller or the customer.
Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by mahyarm on Thursday April 13, 2017 @04:16PM (#14110568)