What I've learned from all this discussion about usb-c is that some people replace all their peripherals and secondary devices on a much more aggressive timescale than I do. For me dongles would likely be an annoying companion, with few or no usb-c devices ever plugging in to it, for the lifespan of this MPB if I bought one today.

My next one in 3-5 years, that might be a different story. But for this one, now? All-usb-c is a turn-off, as it'll be years before that's a "feature" that makes me say anything other than "oh, that's an unfortunate limitation".

None of them are USB-C and I don't plan on replacing any of them soon.

With the possible exception of external hard drives, USB-C doesn't offer any benefits over my existing interfaces.

No need for a dongle for your DisplayPort monitor, just get a DP->USB-C cable, done, I'm running a 4k monitor at 60hz this way.

Same for your hard drive, it is probably micro-usb on the other side, just get a micro-USB to USB-C.

etc.. etc..

You don't need new stuff, just new cables, which is annoying but not anywhere near as bad. Protocol is the same, just a different shape.

It's nice to know the protocols my devices use aren't redundant, but you won't find me rushing out to adopt USB Type-C cables.

The only port I find myself missing so far is HDMI. Having to carry a USB-C to HDMI adapter (actually multiple since compatibility is an unmitigated disaster) is quite annoying. I rarely use thumbdrives, but carrying a USB-C<->female A adapter isn't a big deal since it's so rare and I can just toss it in my bag.

For a primarily desk-sitting laptop you're getting a docking station of some sort (monitor or actual) so you get all the above ports with it. I also don't upgrade components there very often either. I do admit this was annoying so far - as the release of the laptop far preceded any decent docks. Single-cable docking though is pretty neat, and a definite upgrade if minor.

Really it ended up being a USB-C to HDMI, female A, and ethernet that I need to toss in the bag. The latter two I expect to use a few times a year at most.

I dont get all this so much dongle talk when you just need one good adapter.

I've asked our office admin to purchase the Juice Systems flat dongle with Ethernet, as that one handles gigabit, for anyone who gets the new Macbook.

Also, as far as I know, none of the all-in-one dongles, not even the normal adapter that Apple sells supports 4k/60Hz. Only 30.

Disclaimer: not affiliated, just a good product.

Since I only have 2 ports on my non-Touch Bar model, I really wish someone just made a USB-C hub. All of the existing hubs have USB-A ports and one USB-C only for power pass through, but they can't handle the bandwidth required for certain things like 60Hz 4K. At least I have a gigabit USB 3.1 adapter that gets me ~930 Mbps on my local network.

So weight basically :)

If one upgrades their mac with every new release, it usually ends up being a 200-500 hit per year depending on market conditions. The more expensive peripherals usually will fetch a decent amount on ebay as well.

So for the average cost of around ~$30/mo, one can basically have the latest mac with the latest peripherals all the time.

Or one could upgrade every 5 years as well...

Almost everything you list are things that would be stationary on your desk, so either you are buying the wrong machine if you don't plan on removing it from the desk, or you'll benefit from having all connected to a dock that can connect via 1 cable to your machine.

Pretty sure they don't make USB Type C adapters for PS/2.

At some point, inconvenience to part of the user base has to be outweighed by convenience to everyone else. The new MBP fits a 15" screen into a form factor that is edging in on where 13-14" laptops were not too long ago. The new 13" is edging into where 12" laptops used to be. Given that lots of "pros" and "road warriors" suffer through 12-13" laptops for size/weight reasons, that's a pretty huge benefit that might easily justify the loss of ports for a big segment of the user base.

Why'd you get a 13"? If the 15" was close to the same size/weight would you have gotten the 15"?

Also, nobody does that, stop making excuses.

1 port to charge the computer,

1 port (with USB-C to lightning cable, $19) for the iPhone,

1 port (with USB-C to plain old USB dongle, $9) for the Apple Watch,

1 port (with USB-C to lightning cable, $19) for the AirPods

That makes 4 ports, and I have 2. Thus, hub it is.

But yes, the problem is not USB-C per se, the problem is the small number of ports unless you pony up for the TouchPad model.

The only major pain point is really the monitor.

Guess they didn't mean it after all.

You're crazy if you think that 4-conductor rectangular non-reversible connector was going to be the end-all be-all for USB forever. We had to upgrade eventually. Be thankful that this change is being relatively swift and reasonably future-proof. USB C should be good for quite a few more years.

This is going to haunt technical support for literally decades.

Because you can still run the USB 1.0, 1.1, 2.0, and 3.0 protocols over it

I wish they had simply called it "ngSB" or something like that. People understand the need for converters; it's the branding that's terrible.

USBC is no less Universal than micro USB.

USB-C != USB 3.1

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/197145-reversible-usb-...

USB-C != Thunderbolt 3

http://blog.fosketts.net/2016/10/29/total-nightmare-usb-c-th...

sigh

I think it's reasonable to wonder how often this is actually in issue in practice. I don't have a new MBP (or any peripherals for that matter), so I can't speak to this directly.

Do you have a new MBP or know anyone personally who does? Have you or they had any issues with cable incompatibility?

> including official Apple ones

part here. If Apple had planned it better, all their USB-C cables (starting with the Macbook One) could do all the functions they need for any Apple product going forward. But even today, if you walk to an Apple store and buy a bunch of USB-C Apple products, you'll probably have to color code them yourself to not mix them up, because it won't work if you do. All Apple is helping here is saying "if you have a cable with an intsy tiny serial number print starting with X, use it only for Y". Gee thanks, that sure is a great ecosystem you got going here Apple.

There's a reason why Apple 1997 - 2007 pushed interoperable standards hard (examples: USB-A, 802.11B and then G, Firewire, mini-DP). None of these had connectors that you could confuse, including when switching between different Firewire standards, and these buses did fairly complex things as well. They even had a powerbook generation with two different Firewire ports so people don't get left hanging with their old Firewire devices. That's all under Steve Jobs and Jony Ive, just Ive not being the one in charge of doing these decisions.

So yes, ideally all Apple cables would do everything imaginable, but I understand why they didn't choose to do that.

Well, anything but USB 1-3! :face-with-tears-of-pain:

Also, all the ports may look the same, even fit the same port, but they're not the same, which is a terrible user experience.

All in all, I can say I understand nothing about usb-c with confidence except I don't have any usb cables to stick in the ports and nowhere to stick the usb cables I do have.

Thats true of some laptops, but the new macbook pros allow any connection (power/display/whataver) to any of the usb-c ports. When I'm lying in bed I can now roll over and just swap which side of the laptop the power cable connects to.

(Well apparently the ports on one side of the machine are a bit faster, but I don't know of any USB devices which can take advantage of even the slower speed USB 3.1 provides. I certainly don't own any.)

You realize that USB ports aren't always "up & down". Sometimes they're sideways. Sometimes they're reversed.

As someone with a USB C phone who is trying to convert all my devices to it: reversibility is far from a necessity, I did just fine for years with USB B on my phones, but it is extremely nice to not have to even think about direction. And now, it is noticeably annoying when I have to use MicroUSB.

I had the same reaction to the loss of magsafe. It was such a cool hardware feature, but ever since all-day batteries became the norm it's just not the same world as when we had to be constantly plugged in at every meeting, cafe, etc. Remember those days of always searching for outlets at cafes, and the rats nest? Mostly gone.

As you said, there is not major failings in the new MBP ... but it comes after 2 years wait, in a side event (i.e. not really the big front stage for this "Back to the Mac"), with muddled message. Apple has made bold decisions in this Mac but didn't follow up by giving the impression it was behind it. You get USB-C, yeah, hopefully maybe some third party will do cool stuff, like screens because Apple is not doing those anymore, ... It is also bad timing with the phasing out of the Wifi Router dropped like that as an unremarkable footnote despite being key in cloud feature like "Back to my Mac" or "Time machine". There was a definitive feeling that something was off.

MacRumors all black buying guide, Apple regular lack of comment about its future plan made that feeling even worse.

Twice in a month after that, Apple had had to confirm that they are still committed to the Mac, both to the public and to their own employees ! That's what people are concerned about. Nobody wants to buy into a dying ecosystem and Apple 2016 has done very little for the Mac. We will see how 2017 turns out, but I'm part of the people that prefer to wait until November 2017 to see if Apple is now sliding the MBP into a bi-yearly release cycle to decide if it is time to think about a plan B.

edit: Forgot to mention. I think on its own that the new MBP is a great machine, I'm itching to get one. I'm actually delaying the purchase decision as much as possible for the reason mentioned above.

While I've had this feeling at times in the recent past myself, there's a kind of irony in this conversation being reinforced by the new MBP. Apple committed the time and resources necessary to essentially build an entire new iOS device and integrate it into the Mac, including the Touch ID sensor, and add explicit support for it in the majority of their applications (over two dozen, ranging from the little freebies like Notes and Preview up to all of iWork, FCP, Motion and Logic).

Whether one thinks the Touch Bar is "worth it" -- or even the right approach to adding touch support to the Mac -- is a different debate, of course, and worth arguing about. But if Apple wasn't committed to the Mac product line, it's hard to see why they would have bothered. This isn't something they just hacked together at the last minute to make it look like they've been doing something; they've really been doing something. For the Touch Bar to make sense it's going to have to show up on the non-pro Macbook this year, and I suspect on the Magic Keyboard.

I think the real anger is around what's going on with the desktop Mac line, particularly the Mac Pro and the Mac mini. I suspect that the new "trashcan" design had some kind of critical flaw that left Apple in a Catch-22 situation: they can't upgrade it without changing the design, but the market is too small for them to spend a lot of money changing the design again.

I suspect that the custom hardware has something to do about it. They have basically custom everything and a cooling solution that probably prevent them to shop around for easy GPU upgrade. The engineering cost must be awful just to duplicate the performance level you can get with off-the-shelves component. Even server grade components can fit in tiny "alright looking" cases nowadays.

Apple seems like it's lazily milking its userbase, but I think the truth is that it spends so much time and attention on pointless crap that all the stuff we care about on HN looks half-assed in comparison.

It looks going pretty ok to me.

I have almost 50Gb of free Dropbox storage btw, through referrals + events like the space race. But that's not really a fair fight anyway, since (aside from Dropbox) no one offers free space in exchange for actions..

For cost comparison (UK pricing);

iCloud: 50GB: £0.79 200GB: £2.49 1TB: £6.99 2TB: £13.99

Google Drive: 100GB: £1.59 1TB: £7.99

So, Google wins on free tier, but Apple takes it on options and cost thereafter, and 15GB arguably is still insufficient for "OS storage" in any real tangible terms.

[0] no I don't have data. I do know plenty of Dropbox users though, and next to none of them have any extras.

You might be interested in this:

https://griffintechnology.com/us/breaksafe-magnetic-usb-c-po...

It's not the same as having the builtin magsafe, but if you NEED safetly (eg: people tend to trip over your wire), it's wook.

Apple should make a MagSafe USB-C connector. I would buy that in a heartbeat.

http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2016/06/this-magsafe-ripoff-cable-...

Has anyone seen or personally heard of someone yanking their laptop, of any brand or model, onto the floor via the power cable? I haven't. I instinctively think it's a risk, but reality says otherwise. It seems to me like a solution looking for a problem; the only reason I ever suspected that it's a real problem is that Apple made the Magsafe connectors - maybe they had some data that I didn't. Now I suspect it was all to address unfounded fears in consumers.

I've seen it happen plenty of times with cell phones, however. I wouldn't mind a Magsafe connector for an iPhone.

What an argument. Do you happen to have Auto insurance? How about fire insurance? Did your house burn down even once? Mine didn't so far and yet here I am still saying fire insurance is very much needed if you own a house.

And that is exactly what the MagSafe was. Insurance incase this happens. And as you can already tell by the other responses, this does happen. And even if it only happens once, you will look at thousands of dollars worth of damage.

So, no thank you with the non MagSafe MacBooks. Having a choice if I want that yanked off my table to the left or the right depending on which USB-C connector I used to charge it is not a selling point.

Now if you're at your desk you're probably plugged in to power and a few other things that aren't break-away. If you're not at your desk you're probably not plugged in. The biggest snag I've always hit is the headphone connection. It's the most likely to get yanked if your headphones get caught up on a chair.

It was a convenient solution at the time. Now it's a bit of an anachronism.

If you like insurance, get a break-away USB-C cable for each of your devices: https://griffintechnology.com/us/breaksafe-magnetic-usb-c-po...

I'm much more careful at placing my HP power cable on the ground and up to the desk and never got my pc pulled to the ground.

The magsafe connection gets pulled out of my Macbook with enough frequency that I know I'd otherwise be slowly bending the power port on a standard DC adapter.

I've never seen a problem with that either. I've seen plenty of wear on the jackets around connectors on cables.

[1] https://www.macrumors.com/2017/01/16/kaby-lake-macbooks-ming...

If there only was a dedicated surface capable of recording movement, linear or otherwise.

Nvidia 1060 graphics! I don't need faster or more power efficient CPU as much as I need faster and more power efficient GPU!

Fine. Shut off the 1060 when I'm running on battery, but let me have it when I'm plugged in! Let me have the best of both worlds!

Isn't this a larger problem? It's not just graphics anymore; it's the ability to work on basic ML. Even the top of the line GPU you can fit in a laptop is barely enough to handle this, and Apple seems to prefer to believe that need doesn't exist.

Hell, even the Mac Pro has anemic and HUGELY overpriced compute options.

And forget about Vulcan.

And, after having a number of laptops (and an iMac) die from heat death due to the ball grid array solders of the GPU wearing out, I'm done with discrete GPU's in anything other than a desktop box.

Better in this day and age to prototype on the macbook, then offload the heavy lifting to a dedicated ML box or, at the rate things are going, to Amazon...

They did use to make 17" laptops; calling those portable was really stretching the word.

I'd love to have an external desktop class GPU at home so I can play games or goof around with OpenCL and VR. Then I can simply unplug the laptop & use the integrated graphics chip when I'm on the road and need power efficiency.