News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Samsung is imploding in China by na85 on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @03:30AM (#9530049)
The Samsung-branded Android is horrible, though.

I really think Google's permissiveness in allowing vendors to bundle their crapware really kills any prestige the brand might have had. iOS really isn't anything special, but when compared to the literal dogshit that Samsung puts on their phones, it's hard not to make a favourable comparison in favour of Apple's operating system.

I used to think Android had bad performance until I got my first Nexus-series device, at which point I realized that "Vanilla Android" is actually a pretty good OS. It's bothersome that seemingly nobody's out there making this point.

Samsung's insistence on bundling crapware is killing Android.

Re:Samsung is imploding in China by jon-wood on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @03:42AM (#9530083)
I'm always amazed at the crap that people put up with on Android phones. My Moto G is half as powerful as my wife's Samsung, and feels massively more responsive, and I don't have to put up with their god awful UI "enhancements".
Re:Samsung is imploding in China by nkoren on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @04:00AM (#9530138)
This. When my Galaxy S3 went for a swim, I "downgraded" to a first-generation Moto G. The lack of crapware and Samsung "enhancements" makes it a far better phone -- for less than half the price. Unless their OS philosophy changes, there's no way I'd buy Samsung again.
Re:Samsung is imploding in China by WatchDog on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @03:44AM (#9530092)
> literal dogshit that Samsung puts on their phones

Since when do Samsung literally put dogshit on their phones?

[deleted]
Re:Samsung is imploding in China by ghshephard on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @04:40AM (#9530281)
He was commenting on the (mis)use of "literal", which, in the english language, has shifted it's meaning from "taking words in their usual or most basic sense without metaphor or allegory" - to it's new (recent) sense which is used to "emphasize strongly this metaphor/allegory."
Re:Samsung is imploding in China by monort on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @01:52PM (#9533575)
Not very recent. Dickens used "literally" in this meaning in the middle of 19th century.
Re:Samsung is imploding in China by on_and_off on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @05:46AM (#9530514)
To be fair, most OEMs have tuned down their customizations compared to the 2.x era.

The Moto G runs a relatively clean version of Android but even in that case some of the additions of Motorola made me cringe. It generates 'help' messages in the first days of usage that I have found very confusing for new smartphone users.

I wish that Google would control its software more tightly, OEMs just can't be left to their own devices, they will always feel the need to make their phones stand apart by any mean necessary.

I would like to be wrong, but I doubt it will happen anytime soon, Google would lose way too much marketshare with such a move.

Re:Samsung is imploding in China by castell on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @09:00AM (#9531365)
It doesn't make sense to mention "Moto G". Google owned Motorola during that era. In the meanwhile Google sold Motorola again and recent models come with a new customized UI.

Most companies like Samsung, HTC, Sony, Motorola, etc. customize Android. Some more (Samsung), some less (Sony, Motorola). Plain Android are on Google and Chinese devices.

Re:Samsung is imploding in China by on_and_off on Sunday May 17, 2015 @01:46PM (#9560902)
AFAIK, Motorola started lightening their custom skin before Google bought them and continues to ship lightly skinned devices.
Re:Samsung is imploding in China by slowmotiony on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @03:48AM (#9530102)
Google isn't exactly setting a high standard with their buggy OS updates and crappy apps like hangouts.
Re:Samsung is imploding in China by Mikeb85 on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @04:27AM (#9530237)
> crappy apps like hangouts.

What's wrong with Hangouts? I quite like having an all-in-one text message + internet message + phone and video call app that I can use from my phone and computer web browser seamlessly...

Re:Samsung is imploding in China by 72deluxe on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @04:52AM (#9530329)
I prefer NOT to have it take over SMS messaging because I want to know that the person will receive the message. If I wanted to get in touch with you, there is a conscious decision as to whether I instant message you, ring you, video call you, send an SMS, visit you in person or send you a letter. This shouldn't be removed or hidden - the reliability of the transport medium is important!

Half of my contacts never get messages from me in Hangouts. This makes it unreliable, and therefore useless.

Additionally, if I video call someone (eg my wife sat the other side of the room), Hangouts informs me that she is not available for a video call. But she has zero notifications or alerts or ringing or ANYTHING.

The inability to see if someone is online/offline also makes it useless. If I am having a conversation with someone sat next to me, I would like to know if they're sat next to me else I'll be talking to a wall. Chatting with people on Hangouts is like talking to a wall.

It truly is bad.

EDIT: I noticed the INSTANT downvote after writing this. Are you disagreeing with me on Hangouts or something? Or are you saying that I made all of this up or something? Hangouts does not work for me, full stop. I have used Android since 1.5 and Talk was far superior. The lack of proper UI (screen-width listview for contacts????) and behaviour on Hangouts (I am using a tablet) does not encourage decent applications. Compare the quality of Hangouts to GMail on a tablet for reference.

Re:Samsung is imploding in China by soylentcola on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @11:45AM (#9532582)
Not disagreeing with your experiences (because they're yours, not mine) but I've been pretty happy with Hangouts. I default to Hangouts because most everyone I chat with has it installed and it performs better (for me) than SMS/MMS which can be slow, limited, and compress the hell out of attached media.

But if someone doesn't use it, or isn't online, I can just tap the little voice bubble icon (mobile version) on the bottom of the chat where you type in your message and it lets you switch to SMS and back.

Also that is weird that you don't see people as online/offline. Mine (again, mobile version) shows the person with a green voice bubble if they are online or a grey one if they aren't. It shows the last time they were seen and inside the chat, it shows their little avatar/icon below the last message they read.

I can certainly understand wanting to use a different SMS client (which I'm pretty sure you can do easily) and being able to choose different default apps is one of the things I like about Android in general. I haven't used it on a tablet since I broke my Nexus 7 but from what I've seen in the web version and the phone version (both iOS and Android), it's gotten much better since the initial move from Talk to Hangouts.

Re:Samsung is imploding in China by katbyte on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @05:24AM (#9530419)
Weird, I've found hangouts to be nothing but great with no missing messages.. however i (and pretty much everyone i talk to) just use it on iOS/chrome and not tied into sms like iMessage. The only issue I've had is it tends to chow through my battery.

When i was playing around with an andriod you could choose to have it take over sms or not, is that no longer an option?

Re:Samsung is imploding in China by Mikeb85 on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @05:37AM (#9530474)
> When i was playing around with an andriod you could choose to have it take over sms or not, is that no longer an option?

No it's still an option. They just didn't bother to look for it, or don't realise that they may not have the phone number and Google profile of their contacts synced...

But yes, if the person you're messaging has a phone number and Hangouts profile, and those are applied to the same contact, you can choose to SMS them or send a Hangouts message.

Re:Samsung is imploding in China by 72deluxe on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @06:55AM (#9530772)
I have it disabled for SMS messages. I am not so much complaining that it offers SMS tie-in, more that it is unreliable in its transportation, so knowing how you're sending a message is more important if you want the person to receive it.

The problem exists for iPhone users as well I think - Messages will send via SMS or Internet and there is confusion amongst my relatives with regard to it. They don't know if they've sent an SMS or if it's gone via the Internet, so I won't get messages on my Mac/iPad because it's gone via SMS etc. etc.

Muddying the method of communication is a disservice.

Re:Samsung is imploding in China by notwhereyouare on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @09:35AM (#9531605)
I've had an issue where messages will appear out of order, or the end user won't get it at the time, but then it will just randomly pop into the conversation like 20 minutes later
Re:Samsung is imploding in China by vilmosi on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @05:25AM (#9530422)
The problem is you don't even try to make hangouts work for you. You complain that you can't even choose between SMS and instant chat, yet hangouts offers that effortlessly. And you ca see someone online/offline, you can even see exactly the last time they opened the app.

It's fine to not like Hangouts, but your complaints are just plain false.

Re:Samsung is imploding in China by 72deluxe on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @07:02AM (#9530795)
I do try and make Hangouts work for me. I ring my brother using Chrome on my Mac and he doesn't get notified.

My other brother will send messages to me via Hangouts from his phone and it doesn't appear on my phone (running Talk), and won't appear as a notification every time on my tablet (running Hangouts). Only when I log into Gmail on my laptop do I get a popup regarding the message. This makes it unreliable.

I also attempt to video call my family from my tablet using Hangouts - they don't get notified, either those running Talk or those running Hangouts. I try ringing them from my laptop and they don't get notified.

If I call my brother from my phone running Talk, he gets notified. If I call my brother from the SAME ACCOUNT on my tablet running Hangouts, he doesn't get notified.

Your understanding of online/offline is different to mine then. If I am talking to someone next to me and they walk off, knowing when they were last next to me is of no use to me if I wish to continue talking to them. I need to know that they are still right next to me.

This is the way it used to behave in Talk and also the way it STILL behaves in Gmail chat, just NOT Hangouts on mobile. Hangouts tells me when they were last seen yet lists everyone I know in the contacts list. It would be far far far far far more useful to show those that are online NOW, not were online 2 days ago in my list. This is the way IM has behaved since I don't know when: for examples, see MSN Messenger, Yahoo! Messenger, Google Talk, ICQ, face-to-face conversation etc. etc. etc.

Re:Samsung is imploding in China by threeseed on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @05:41AM (#9530491)
No. The more reasonable explanation is that the OP is experiencing issues that don't manifest in your situation. It doesn't mean his complaints are necessarily false.

You seem to act like software never has bugs.

Re:Samsung is imploding in China by vilmosi on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @09:03AM (#9531375)
>> You seem to act like software never has bugs.

So every piece of software ever made sucks?

The quality of hangouts shouldn't be decided on anecdotal bug findings.

Re:Samsung is imploding in China by oldmanjay on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @11:22AM (#9532407)
you should have told him he's using it wrong
Re:Samsung is imploding in China by x0x0 on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @04:44AM (#9530302)
messages that don't send

people that never appear online, even when you appear online to them

the ui disaster, and how I had to google to figure out how to sign out of it

my phone staying signed in and eating messages that I would much rather have had delivered to my laptop where I was actively conversing

all of this on a nexus running stock 4.4.latest

Re:Samsung is imploding in China by nitrogen on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @04:54AM (#9530337)
Hangouts gets slower with every version, to the point that my older dual-core phone can no longer run it at all -- it just hangs.
Re:Samsung is imploding in China by talideon on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @07:09AM (#9530822)
It's a bit half-assed, at least on phones, especially with its SMS handling.
Re:Samsung is imploding in China by e12e on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @09:33PM (#9536187)
I just wish they'd made a real effort to make Android more open - say make a real push to get commitment from all OEMs to support ASOP. That way it would've been much easier to make different Android distributions, than it is now. Unfortunately, Google does not only seem to not care about that, but is actively moving much of the useful APIs to closed source, locked down Google properties.

At least we still have Linux and Mozilla (and Canonical), so I still think more open mobile/tablet/phone platforms are comming. They might run Android apps -- or might not. They might be able to work with a workable for-profit/pay marketplace/app-store (AFAIK the only working such market place for open OS' is Steam -- maybe Valve will eat everyone's lunch in the end. Steam for mobile apps and games? Why not.).

Hangout exemplifies everything that is bad with the path Google is on. It replaces a system based on open standards, that (mostly, except for federation?) welcomed any and all existing clients -- and a system that allowed for having separate apps for handling IM and SMS (say, maybe you wanted your IM to alwasy use OTR, but not for SMS).

The sad thing is, contrary to what Google claims, I don't think publishing a Google app that did most things would have been untenable while basing the work off of existing standards. I think it would probably have been easier.

Re:Samsung is imploding in China by motoboi on Wednesday May 13, 2015 @08:52AM (#9538484)
Adopt an standardized OS would push manufacturers out of business.

They don't want to be recognized as another android phone, because then consumers would simply move tho the cheapest capable ( or faster, or better camera) android phone.

My thought is that Samsung need that it's phones be seen as a totally ( and worth) product that Moto X. So they can monetize on this perceived value.

Re:Samsung is imploding in China by e12e on Wednesday May 13, 2015 @04:44PM (#9541830)
I don't think they'll be able to hold off comodization of the handset market much longer. Then again: Apple is doing well on x86 (laptops). We'll see.
Re:Samsung is imploding in China by creshal on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @04:41AM (#9530287)
And most "branded" Android distributions still manage to be worse.
Re:Samsung is imploding in China by rorykoehler on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @04:43AM (#9530297)
To be fair Apple have a load of crapware too. The whole ecosystem runs off of iTunes. This alone is enough to ensure I will never buy an iOS device. I agree wholeheartedly that the Samsung Android is really annoying too. There is nothing worse than having a bunch of apps you can't uninstall but also have no interest in using. Now they want to even bundle facebook! Pointless.
Re:Samsung is imploding in China by kaolinite on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @06:30AM (#9530661)
It hasn't really run off iTunes for 3-4 years now. I can't remember the last time I had to launch it. Besides, whilst iTunes isn't great, if most crapware was even as good as iTunes then there wouldn't be much of a problem.
Re:Samsung is imploding in China by Lio on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @07:10AM (#9530823)
I agree. IMHO iTune is definitely a poor excuse for something that would be better run with tabs in a browser but I'm more concerned with things like the Apple Watch application or The Weather Channel that I can't remove from my iPhone.

The non-removable Apple apps on iOS that exist only to up-sell other Apple "value add" services like Newsstand, Apple Watch, iBooks, Game Centre even iCloud to lesser extent are far more annoying to me.

Re:Samsung is imploding in China by Alphasite_ on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @08:05AM (#9531075)
You can probably disable them from the child lock section, which just outright hides the app.
Re:Samsung is imploding in China by threeseed on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @10:02AM (#9531794)
What ?

(a) The whole ecosystem doesn't run off iTunes. You can setup, manage, buy etc without needing it. It's needed on OSX for buying music/movies/books but that's hardly surprising.

(b) There has never been any talk of or intention to bundle Facebook. It would actually be a pretty bad move for Facebook since it could be seen to be a pretty anticompetitive move.

Re:Samsung is imploding in China by soylentcola on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @11:36AM (#9532528)
I see it a lot like Windows PC OEMs. Microsoft makes Windows. You can install it on anything that will run it. On its own, it has its strengths and weaknesses but it is a generally capable PC operating system.

But anyone who has dealt with Windows PCs for the past decade or two are familiar with the concept of doing a wipe and a fresh install on some poor chump's laptop or desktop because it came loaded with so much garbage from Dell or Gateway or HP that the thing ran like utter shit.

Thankfully, with a desktop OS, you can do that but on mobile, since the OS needs to be built with all sorts of proprietary drivers "baked in" it's not a matter of just installing base Android and running an update process to install the drivers for chipset and radios and other stuff.

It was bad enough when cheap PCs gave the entire platform a bad name because in theory you could fix that with an hour or two of work. But with something like a phone, it can be damn near impossible to get hold of "stock" Android properly ported to your device. Even when a factory image exists, it may require more tweaking and bypassing than most people are comfortable with to get the thing installed.

This does indeed reflect poorly on the OS as a whole but since OEMs only see Android as the solution to a "we need an OS for our hardware" problem, they don't seem to have much stake in the overall impression of Android.

After having a couple of HTC phones and a Samsung phone, I just started buying Nexus or Nexus-like devices (like the Moto X) because, like you, I actually enjoy using Android when my devices aren't kept on outdated versions and loaded with unwanted addons.

Re:Samsung is imploding in China by _nedR on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @08:19AM (#9531148)
To give a counter-opinion in favour of Samsung, I am using a Galaxy Tab S 8.4, and I find useful some of their custom ROM features like Power Saving mode (which restricts background data and runs in black-and-white mode), the split screen mode (very useful when say comparing excerpts from 2 book, or say running a calculator and another app.

Yes, they do try to bundle a few additional third-party apps like Flipboard, Evernote, and Dropbox. I wouldn't call these bloatware as these are high quality apps that most people would actually like and find useful, but I am mildly annoyed at the imposition. They also have a few of their own google-like apps and services like S Voice, S Planner and S Finder. These are basically attempts by Samsung to pull a Google (which frankly, they don't have the chops for). On the whole, i would say these additions are only mildly annoying since performance hasn't been much impacted, probably because of the hardware(but this may change with time and updates).

Re:Samsung is imploding in China by mark_l_watson on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @09:32AM (#9531585)
After buying each of my Samsung phones from Verizon, I spent about an hour researching which apps I could safely remove. I wanted to buy a Google phone, but I was told that there were problems using unlocked phones on Verizon. Is this true?
Re:Samsung is imploding in China by jmngomes on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @06:55AM (#9530769)
"Samsung's insistence on bundling crapware is killing Android."

Sadly, the same thing applies to all smartphone manufacturers, Nexus being the exception. The amount of useless apps that hog scarce resources and that the everyday user can't uninstall end up compromising the user experience.

Re:Samsung is imploding in China by Al-Khwarizmi on Wednesday May 13, 2015 @03:38AM (#9537373)
The blame is also with the customers that insist on buying Samsung (to then complain about their phones being crap) instead of giving other manufacturers a try.

The UI of HTC phones has consistently been very good (I prefer it to stock Android by a mile) and the Sony one is quite decent. It's mainly Samsung TouchWiz that sucks, and it's a pity because that's all the Android most people see.

Re:Samsung is imploding in China by pkaye on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @11:47AM (#9532596)
I hate how every 2 months I get some random app automatically installed by Samsung on my Galaxy S4.
Re:Samsung is imploding in China by M8 on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @04:14AM (#9530182)
Google is on the forefront of bundling crapware. Why do I need freaking Cloud Print, Google Docs and other crap I did not ask for explicitly? I did not ask for it. Only expect two things by default: the store app and Chrome.
Re:Samsung is imploding in China by saiya-jin on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @04:28AM (#9530243)
honestly, I am underwhelmed by android chrome, switched to mobile firefox (with adblock plus) and removed chrome icon. On desktops, I don't get the appeal of chrome at all... too resource-hungry for my taste.

The more somebody thinks he know whats better for me than myself, and pushes stuff down my throat, the more I resist, regardless of added value. same for school, same for these things

Re:Samsung is imploding in China by bsaul on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @04:41AM (#9530285)
slightly off-topic, but i'm looking really forward to having firefox released on iOS. Ads really are killing the whole mobile web experience..
Re:Samsung is imploding in China by arm on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @06:26AM (#9530648)
You can get rid of ads on iOS now by using something like Weblock¹ (or use your own proxy server).

――――――

¹ — https://www.weblockapp.com/

Re:Samsung is imploding in China by 0942v8653 on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @06:38AM (#9530703)
Not sure if I trust weblock, but my Raspberry Pi functions as a DNS server with a few ad domain lists and it works 99% of the time. No need for a proxy server.