Huh? I don't disagree with your point, but of all the logic-defying chain gyms I've trained in, and I've trained in more than a few, I've never seen Power Cleans forbidden anywhere, ever.

Maybe not expressly forbidden but I've rarely seen bumper plates in these types of gyms, and some do not allow you to drop weights.

If you're doing power cleans correctly you should not be dropping the weight. The movement isn't over until the weight is safely on the ground.

If the weight makes a noise loud enough to draw every gym goers attention, you are lifting too much and should deload. Or you just might be that guy ;)

This is 100% incorrect. In fact, there is a much higher risk of injury lowering a power clean under control, especially if you're going heavier.

That's not to say that you won't benefit from working with a weight where it is possible to control when lowering, but there's a lot to be said for power cleaning a higher amount and dropping upon completion of the rep.

The power clean movement is over when you have control of the bar on your shoulders.

Gyms are not libraries. They should be dirty and loud.

Hah! This made me laugh. It's true, though. I used to think that the big dudes were just being obnoxious until I got up to that level, and realized that it's just incredibly fucking hard to lift that much weight. It takes a lot out of you, and the noises aren't for show.

Inexperienced lifters don't realize the incredible abdominal pressure you have to create for max effort lifts, the breathing control that goes with it, and the inevitable strange noises...

I've never heard of anyone deloading because they were making too much noise. What kind of gym do you go to?

I think the point about power cleans is fair (although if you read the book they aren't really required, many reasons why you wouldn't do them), but the 5x5 progression is way too much volume way too early.

High on volume? What?!

You can be out of the gym in 30 minutes or less. It's 3 exercises 3 times per week. 15 sets total per gym session (not counting warm-up sets).

The whole point is to start with a very low weight (empty bar) and work your way up by adding 2.5lbs to each side every time you go back in. It's the fastest linear progression workout for beginners.

From my experience, Strong Lifts 5x5 is the recommended beginner's workout. You need a solid base to start off with. and 5x5 gets you there the quickest, because you are doing compound lifts. Biggest gym noob mistake is to go in there and start doing isolation exercises, when you are already lacking a base. That causes muscle imbalances which can then result in tendon and joint issues.

Edit: Just wanted to add that the 5x5 can transition into 3x5 and then 1x5 as you move up in weight and plateau. This can keep you going until you squat 400-500 pounds and deadlift 500-600.

I am not recommending a split, I'm recommending 3x5. I don't think there's a massive difference, but 3x5 will let you progress further without thinking, and 5x5 places additional stress on tendons much earlier in the process without significant advantages. More != better.

I think 30 minutes in the gym is disingenuous. Within weeks that quickly balloons to about 1.5 hours as soon as the weights get remotely challenging.

Very very very few people can continue even a 1x5 linear progression to a 400# squat or 500# deadlift.

I've been doing 5x5 for about a month now. Everything except OH Press has been tracking very nicely---a bit of challenge but I can always make it through with a focus on form and be prepared for next workout.

But I'd like to understand better your concern about volume. If I face this deficiency, what will it feel like? How should I get around it?

I had problems with the OH Press just because the minimum increase when you're starting out is so much relative to the total weight. I think I started out at 25kg so with the smallest plates at 1.25kg, the first few increases were around 10% each — tough to pull off every week.

That's a good point. I kept attributing it to missing form, which is probably not half bad to focus on, but maybe this is more of a mere "suck it up and go" sort of situation, haha

As long as the recovery aspect is on point and if you are not too time-limited, there really is no reason not to have as much volume as possible.

Stronglifts is also great because they have a very good app, which was so helpful for me in keeping consistent, which is the most important part of training I had difficulty with.

I believe Rip mentions in his book that you can switch out power cleans for bent over rows if you like.

Rip says, "Fuck Rows". Sic!

You'd be better off doing Deadlifts only and perhaps add pullups.

Why are rows so bad? I've been doing 5x5 for about a month now and find rows to be what appears to be a good complementary workout.

My gym has bumpers and people do power cleans all the time. Should I consider replacing rows?

I like that the power cleans add explosiveness to the program. All the other lifts are slow (at least when I do them) and the power cleans make the program a bit more versatile.

I do try to keep lifts explosive as I can, though I can already feel how hard that will be as weight keeps growing.

I think the olympic lifts are really cool, but I feel it'd take significant motive to go off program and include them at least until I top out on 5x5s.

I agree, but I swear he said that in starting strength.

I heard the profanity on video. (I've read the second edition of Starting Strength, and can't remember reading about rows.)

I decided to verify that I am not making things up ;)

Starting Strength, 2nd edition:

- There is a whole section on barbell rows in the "Useful Assistance Exercises" chapter. See page 263.

- Barbell row substitution is mentioned in the "Programming" chapter. Page 289, start of 5th paragraph: "People without access to bumper plates may choose to use the barbell row instead of the power clean. This is not a terrible substitution, but be aware of what you're giving up if you do..."

I guess Rip changed his mind?

Who's Rip?

Mark Rippetoe, who is one of the prophets of weightlifting (at least on reddit). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Rippetoe

He's a good resource for beginner's advice.