News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:The new MacBook by nickysielicki on Monday March 09, 2015 @04:27PM (#9173785)
I'm sorry but when you ship a machine with ONE PORT for the purposes of charging and peripherals, this absolutely needs to be in the box.

Nickel and $80'ering me on a $1400 computer is ridiculous. I'll stick with my thinkpad.

Re:The new MacBook by nigelsampson on Monday March 09, 2015 @07:50PM (#9174937)
The Surface Pro's come with only one USB port on the device, they make it up for it with having one on the power brick which I think is an awesome idea.
Re:The new MacBook by nickysielicki on Monday March 09, 2015 @08:03PM (#9174996)
The surface pro also has a separate charging port.

With this new macbook, one cannot charge and use a mouse at the same time without an $80 addon.

Re:The new MacBook by largote on Monday March 09, 2015 @08:58PM (#9175255)
Well, the official Apple mouse does not require a dongle, their logic must be something along the lines of "that's what you get for using third party mice".
Re:The new MacBook by _nedR on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @01:39AM (#9176240)
What if i want to connect an external harddisk? or a pen drive having my work documents? or I want to connect a projector to do my presentation.

Is Apple's logic "that's what you get for having friends or working with people who do not buy the latest apple devices"?

Re:The new MacBook by nardi on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @04:41AM (#9176676)
You are ignoring the obvious answer that Apple even said in the announcement: wireless everything.

This is exactly like the removal of the DVD drive in MacBook Airs. "HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO USE MY DVDs?!?!?" The answer is: don't. Download things over the network instead.

Same logic applies here.

Re:The new MacBook by ianlevesque on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @03:22AM (#9176493)
Dropbox, Box, Google Drive, Syncthing, BTSync, Aerofs, and others would all serve this use case.
Re:The new MacBook by Yizahi on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @09:43AM (#9177640)
"Waiting to upload 336 files at 3.6kb/s. Estimated time to complete 3 weeks."

Seen such messages right when I NEEDED those files. Also - remember epic KDE failure? When they had corrupted repository and it was perfectly mirrored to 1500+ other repos? And they had to search offline PC with a uncorrupted snapshot?

In general "all cloud" tech is at most 50% ready for use by everyone.

Re:The new MacBook by _nedR on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @09:33AM (#9177601)
So the whole world (my office, friends, family, clients, colleagues) should change to suit my laptop?

For a disruptive product to be successful it should not be behind its time (where others are already there) it should not be too far ahead of its time (The technology might not be ready, the people might not be ready to understand the product, etc), It has to be just ahead of its time. I am sorry but I maintain that Apple has overshot with this product. This is not like removing DVD support or even removing flash support, because a lot of the world is still wired. Except for those who are fortunate to live in their own Apple bubble, many of the people who buy this will have to frequently face the frustration of owning such a device with practically no reward (apart from shaving of a few inches and grams off their laptop).

Re:The new MacBook by falcolas on Monday March 09, 2015 @09:09PM (#9175321)
Re:The new MacBook by urda on Monday March 09, 2015 @10:44PM (#9175698)
He's talking about the more popular (and wireless) magic mouse.

That mouse has literally been around forever, and no it's not what users are generally using now.

Re:The new MacBook by largote on Wednesday March 11, 2015 @04:23AM (#9183097)
Wow, I didn't even know they still sold that model.
Re:The new MacBook by DonHopkins on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @10:58AM (#9178025)
Third party mice that require their own dongle instead of using bluetooth are just stupid.
Re:The new MacBook by largote on Wednesday March 11, 2015 @04:25AM (#9183099)
For general use, yeah.

For gaming, you can get less input lag with wireless mice with dedicated dongles if you're intent on going wireless.

Re:The new MacBook by whyenot on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @01:26AM (#9176200)
The macbook does have bluetooth, so I don't really see your point. There are lots of inexpensive, perfectly decent bluetooth mice out there.
Re:The new MacBook by randomsearch on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @07:28AM (#9177128)
> With this new macbook, one cannot charge and use a mouse at the same time without an $80 addon.

Can't you just use bluetooth? I prefer a bluetooth mouse anyway. Wires get in the way.

Re:The new MacBook by driverdan on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @11:05AM (#9178088)
Only if you like Apple's mice since no one else makes a half way decent Bluetooth mouse.
Re:The new MacBook by pistle on Monday March 09, 2015 @08:15PM (#9175042)
And a Mini Display port. External monitor(s) on the one and USB hub the other. Surface can drive 1 4k or 2 1080p monitors from that port. Will be interesting to see if you can get the daisy-chain of monitors off that AND have a spot to set up a hub or charge another device.
Re:The new MacBook by iSnow on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @06:02AM (#9176882)
I don't get it. So you spend $1400 on a computer but a missing port adapter not everyone needs is deal breaker? I strongly believe you were never in the market for a Mac anyways, just using the opportunity to hate a bit.
Re:The new MacBook by burger_moon on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @08:32AM (#9177327)
I own a macbook right now (it's one of the best laptops I've owned) and I will use this one until it dies because I dislike what they are doing with the new one. If it stays this way, I will likely go back to a windows machine. I agree with the above comment. It's ridiculous. Actually it's not. It's pretty typical of Apple.
Re:The new MacBook by batiudrami on Monday March 09, 2015 @11:27PM (#9175831)
I'm surprised it isn't. My ASUS Ultrabook came with a USB-Ethernet and MiniDP-DVI adapters in the box, despite coming with the usual 2xUSB3, MiniDP & Micro HDMI ports.

Though I guess it's not that surprising. Back in the day, my Gen4 iPod came with a power brick, a USB cable and a Firewire cable. Now you get a single USB cable.

Re:The new MacBook by X-Istence on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @10:55AM (#9178003)
The iPhones at least -- haven't purchased an iPod in a long time -- still come with power bricks.
Re:The new MacBook by pbreit on Monday March 09, 2015 @04:40PM (#9173888)
With Bluetooth, the cloud and AirPlay, who even needs those ports? People are up in arms every time Apple changes/deletes ports and are almost always wrong.

Go ahead and stick with your thinkpad.

Re:The new MacBook by robotresearcher on Monday March 09, 2015 @04:56PM (#9174001)
Show up to give a presentation anywhere in the world. Standard plug-in? VGA. Maybe HDMI. You can't count on an AirPlay connection being present and I wouldn't want to rely on wireless video for important presentations with 20 seconds set up time anyway.
Re:The new MacBook by sswaner on Monday March 09, 2015 @06:48PM (#9174606)
That is an atypical scenario unless your job requires frequent presentation. Even then, you are used to having an adapter in your bag or pocket.

To me, this is a great tradeoff: I get a lighter and thinner laptop for 100% of my computing, the downside being an adapter when I return the the dark ages of VGA connectors.

In fact, for my MacBook Pro, I will have fewer connections. Instead of power and Thunderbolt, I will just get one of the connectors that bridges power, external monitor and USB peripherals and plug in a single thing when I "dock" my laptop.

I will take that any day over the awkward Dell and Thinkpad docking stations I see my coworkers use.

Re:The new MacBook by urda on Monday March 09, 2015 @10:46PM (#9175709)
> That is an a typical scenario unless your job requires frequent presentation.

I completely agree with this assessment. Even here on HN the majority of users are not giving presentations or even screen sharing. When it does matter, there is often a third party device they have to present from anway.

I'll take the adapter not being in the box, as for most users they won't be using it enough to warrant the extra cost.

Re:The new MacBook by robotresearcher on Monday March 09, 2015 @11:12PM (#9175786)
I agree completely. The top comment in this thread was about wireless connections making wired connections redundant. I want wired video output as I trust it more than wireless. VGA is an inelegant but working solution. Dongle is no problem.
Re:The new MacBook by gedejong on Monday March 09, 2015 @05:20PM (#9174175)
True, but since Macs have lost the ports, better venues are finally starting to cater to modern standards.

Personally, I think VGA is an abomination and people should react a bit stronger to be invited to a venue and having to deal with standards from 1987.

Re:The new MacBook by rythie on Monday March 09, 2015 @09:01PM (#9175273)
Your right, we have much better standard in HDMI, because every laptop has that now. Oh wait, except the Macbook Air which has display port. So HDMI and displayport, oh wait, USB type C. So that's it just three connections to replace VGA.

Oh, forgot about iPads, 2 different ones for that, and android phones at least 2 MHL connectors and whatever google does in their phones. We haven't even got onto mini and micro HDMI.

At least 10 different connectors on recent devices then? Don't you just love standards?

Re:The new MacBook by _nedR on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @01:45AM (#9176258)
I dunno. In my personal experience having worked with a lot of projectors, televisions, monitors I find HDMI to be an incredibly buggy experience. VGA always just works. The only problem of VGA (and other newer digital standards) when compared to HDMI is the lack of audio support, and also i guess VGA support is declining compared to HDMI.
Re:The new MacBook by robotresearcher on Monday March 09, 2015 @05:44PM (#9174362)
I think guests should graciously work with whatever hosts provide, as long as it works.
Re:The new MacBook by acveilleux on Monday March 09, 2015 @07:11PM (#9174752)
The thing is, it doesn't. It requires the device to be able to do a Digital to Analog conversion. In modern graphics chipsets, that capability is only needed for legacy compatibility with CRTs and old projectors. If you speak VGA to a projector or any flat panel monitor, you're really just feeding an Analog to Digital converter. It's nuts.
Re:The new MacBook by largote on Monday March 09, 2015 @09:00PM (#9175269)
VGA has lower quality at high resolutions than something like DVI, DisplayPort, or HDMI. Then again, if the place still has a VGA connector, it's unlikely the projector is high-resolution.
Re:The new MacBook by robotresearcher on Monday March 09, 2015 @10:00PM (#9175544)
Yes. So as a guest do you make the best of it or whine that there are better things available?
Re:The new MacBook by saraid216 on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @12:52AM (#9176096)
Being a good host is also kind of a thing, FYI, and part of that is going to the effort of making life nice for your guest.

If you're going to harp on hospitality, please remember it cuts both ways.

Re:The new MacBook by robotresearcher on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @02:50PM (#9179768)
This is the rudest politeness advice I've ever seen. Props!
Re:The new MacBook by integraton on Monday March 09, 2015 @05:17PM (#9174135)
That particular use case is apparently not expected by Apple to be a common use case for the target market of this particular device. Fortunately, other devices with different features focused on different usage patterns are available for purchase from Apple and other manufacturers. It's strange that this is at all controversial.
Re:The new MacBook by robotresearcher on Monday March 09, 2015 @05:22PM (#9174189)
On the contrary, it is totally expected. They sell a dongle with VGA out.
Re:The new MacBook by integraton on Monday March 09, 2015 @05:28PM (#9174239)
If it was expected to be a common use case, it would be included as a core feature. Furthermore, the number of people for whom "show[ing] up to give a presentation anywhere in the world" is a common use case is likely very small. I would go so far as to speculate that people in that category are greatly outnumbered by people across all demographics who use their laptops for sending emails, browsing the web, using productivity software, organizing media, and doing other software-centric tasks.
Re:The new MacBook by robotresearcher on Monday March 09, 2015 @08:11PM (#9175031)
Cars do not come with child seats included as a core feature. Would you say that transporting under-10s is not a common use case of a family car?
Re:The new MacBook by mintplant on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @12:53AM (#9176100)
> Furthermore, the number of people for whom "show[ing] up to give a presentation anywhere in the world" is a common use case is likely very small.

College students? It's always a big hassle finding a dongle whenever a MacBook user has to give a presentation in class.

Re:The new MacBook by arihant on Monday March 09, 2015 @07:08PM (#9174731)
Not to nitpick, but for a long time, to use a Mac with VGA you had to buy an adapter. Same for HDMI. There is a case that can be made on including this accessory in the box, but VGA cannot be part of that argument. Not for a Mac user.

Instead of buying mini DVI to VGA or Lightening to HDMI adapter, just buy this?

Re:The new MacBook by robotresearcher on Monday March 09, 2015 @10:03PM (#9175556)
You are not nitpicking something I am not arguing. I'm happy with a VGA dongle.
Re:The new MacBook by ceejayoz on Monday March 09, 2015 @07:07PM (#9174729)
Bring a ChromeCast. Plug it in to an HDMI point, bring a VGA-HDMI adapter, and it'll work fine on your own ad-hoc network.
Re:The new MacBook by sitkack on Monday March 09, 2015 @09:06PM (#9175308)
Idea. ChromeCast like device that can pump out HDMI, DVI, display port and VGA, attach to it over wifi, it has a fallback where it can run the presentation off an SD card while itself acts as a wifi base station. The ChromeCast of presentation hardware.
Re:The new MacBook by niels_olson on Monday March 09, 2015 @08:51PM (#9175217)
I almost thought this was an amazing idea. Except most places venues I'm in don't offer HDMI either.
Re:The new MacBook by rsynnott on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @08:12AM (#9177263)
So, er, carry a VGA dongle? I mean, most laptops don't have actual VGA ports these days.
Re:The new MacBook by robotresearcher on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @04:53PM (#9180547)
Yep, happy with that. I was responding to the parent comment that said roughly "with wireless everything, who needs wired ports?".

Wireless is usually OK in my living room but I would not count on wireless video working reliably in a conference room with 500 people on their laptop/phone. Shudder.

Re:The new MacBook by stouset on Monday March 09, 2015 @05:04PM (#9174042)
I have a YubiKey permanently occupying a USB port in my laptop for 2FA.
Re:The new MacBook by Zombieball on Monday March 09, 2015 @05:42PM (#9174347)
Whoa thanks for brining this to attention. I have this as well and didn't even think about it! I would need to carry an adapter with my YubiKey.
Re:The new MacBook by bronson on Monday March 09, 2015 @06:57PM (#9174655)
That doesn't sound very 2 factor.
Re:The new MacBook by moe on Monday March 09, 2015 @08:22PM (#9175077)
It may not be the purest usage mode but even a permanently inserted YubiKey protects you when your password got sniffed on the network or by a keylogger.

Moreover the YubiKey also acts as a PGP smartcard, giving you a private key (for e.g. SSH) that an attacker can't extract even if they obtain root on your laptop.

As much as I would like a "Retina MBA", the lack of a separate USB port is a dealbreaker for me too.

Re:The new MacBook by gcr on Monday March 09, 2015 @09:03PM (#9175285)
As long as the machine is on, can't the attacker ask the YubiKey to generate signatures on their behalf?

This is similar to standard SSH agent forwarding attacks. A sysadmin connects to a malicious server via SSH. If the sysadmin turns on agent forwarding, then "malicious root" can remotely ask the sysadmin's agent (running on the sysadmin's laptop) to authenticate to any other machine that accepts the sysadmin's public key. The malicious root can log in to any other server the sysadmin has access to, as long as the sysadmin still stays connected.

Re:The new MacBook by moe on Monday March 09, 2015 @09:41PM (#9175472)
As long as the machine is on, can't the attacker ask the YubiKey to generate signatures on their behalf?

For the 2FA OTP portion: No. The button needs to be physically touched.

For the PGP (ssh) portion: Yes. (but again, the attacker can not obtain a copy of the private key, that's the critical difference to your scenario)

That's why (at least for critical servers) you should combine the two. That way an attacker can at most piggyback your connections. He can not initiate his own because he can not touch the button.

Re:The new MacBook by falcolas on Monday March 09, 2015 @09:12PM (#9175330)
No, the yubikey can not be activated from the OS, just from the touch capacitive sensor embedded in it. It can be re-programmed, but I've not seen a way to trigger a generation, even from the re-programmer.

It's a slick device.

Re:The new MacBook by rconti on Monday March 09, 2015 @08:23PM (#9175085)
It's still something you have, even if it's glued into your USB port.
Re:The new MacBook by stouset on Monday March 09, 2015 @07:21PM (#9174799)
You have to physically touch the device in order for it to function.
Re:The new MacBook by acveilleux on Monday March 09, 2015 @07:13PM (#9174759)
If you chose to read an unspoken "while I use it" it's more logical and in some environment required.
Re:The new MacBook by ctdonath on Monday March 09, 2015 @10:00PM (#9175543)
In defense of the parent: Apple sells more than just the 12" MacBook, and if its specs aren't to your liking then you're not the intended demographic. Some people DO want an extremely thin/light Mac and don't need more than a charging cable & audio jack, enough people that Apple decided it was worth going to this extreme. Want more ports/power/etc? get a MacBook Air, MacBook Pro, iMac, or Mac Pro - each with a variety of configurations.
Re:The new MacBook by swang on Monday March 09, 2015 @05:12PM (#9174108)
Maybe it's just not set up correctly, but my company has airplay in every conference room and we very rarely use it because its so fickle whether or not it'll acknowledge your MacBook. Maybe Yosemite fixed these problems but that's just trading one set of bugs/problems for another.
Re:The new MacBook by chronolitus on Monday March 09, 2015 @04:52PM (#9173969)
Most people I know, many times.
Re:The new MacBook by untog on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @05:33AM (#9176795)
I'm still waiting for AirPlay to actually work in corporate environments. We have a mix of wired and wireless, which I believe live on different subnets. Bonjour just won't work with it.
Re:The new MacBook by kmfrk on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @12:14PM (#9178519)
Yeah, we have to rely on cables, when the wi-fi isn't fast enough to transmit the video - or whatever is causing the laggy video.
Re:The new MacBook by fsckin on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @10:05AM (#9177750)
Wide-area Bonjour and Bonjour forwarding are things. It works if your IT department cares to figure it out.
Re:The new MacBook by larzang on Monday March 09, 2015 @05:44PM (#9174363)
Yeah, who on earth uses headphones with a laptop. Crazy.
Re:The new MacBook by duskwuff on Monday March 09, 2015 @05:51PM (#9174420)
There's a headphone jack on the right hand side.
Re:The new MacBook by totalrobe on Monday March 09, 2015 @04:57PM (#9174012)
Gee, and if you're one of the <20% in the US with access to fiber, you can even upload to the cloud at greater than 10 Mbps
Re:The new MacBook by Joky on Monday March 09, 2015 @10:04PM (#9175561)
Then it would be sold $1480... At some point I had 5 Nokia phone and 4 Dell laptop ones, power adapter. Why having an adaptor for VGA/HDMI/DVI/Display Port/USB/Ethernet/... shipped with all machines when all users probably won't need all but just one. This is a waste...
Re:The new MacBook by username3 on Monday March 09, 2015 @10:19PM (#9175609)
Why have a power port on every adapter?
Re:The new MacBook by jmilloy on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @08:32AM (#9177334)
We're both getting downvoted for this. I'm not sure what we seem to be missing!
Re:The new MacBook by emehrkay on Monday March 09, 2015 @08:42PM (#9175164)
Didn't MacBooks come with those connectors before? It's like when iPods and iPhones used to come with the desktop stands

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7357/11147888116_9be011e0b1_n...

Re:The new MacBook by jmilloy on Monday March 09, 2015 @09:00PM (#9175265)
So they should increase the price of the laptop by $80 for everyone so that you don't feel nickel and dimed? Why do you care if your receipt has that $80 listed a separate item or not?