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Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by glimshe on Tuesday November 03, 2026 @10:22PM (#50361166)
The incredible thing is that Windows 10 was already near perfect. It would make sense to increase performance and security, but they changed the UI without improving an iota of user productivity, including removing key features of the product. Almost ever change in the past few years made Windows worse. Windows leadership should be fired and replaced by people who are actually Windows users, not MacOS users.
Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by gjsman-1000 on Tuesday November 03, 2026 @10:36PM (#50361243)
Pff… remember Cortana?
Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by jensenbox on Tuesday November 03, 2026 @10:51PM (#50361316)
[delayed]
Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by SP3269 on Tuesday November 03, 2026 @10:59PM (#50361353)
Yes. And Tay.
Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by TiredOfLife on Wednesday November 04, 2026 @01:43AM (#50362177)
It was hilarious how the update to finally remove cortana came out a month after they announced copilot
Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by joooscha on Wednesday November 04, 2026 @02:11AM (#50362331)
Cortana is literaly the reason I am on Linux now for 9 years.

Had to reinstall Windows and could not disable Cortana or even skip some weired voice output during initial setup. Immediately removed Windows again and installed Ubuntu.

Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by SoftTalker on Tuesday November 03, 2026 @10:51PM (#50361315)
Win2KPro was the peak. Windows 7 wasn't terrible, and you could select the Windows 2000 UI. It's been downhill since then.
Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by WarOnPrivacy on Tuesday November 03, 2026 @11:26PM (#50361488)
I really liked Win2KPro. My son has a copy of Windows Neptune he fires up now and then.

But I also had lots of fun when Code Red and Nimda came around - full perm file navigation on computers everywhere. Any Win2k box knocking on my firewall was telling me it was wide open for use.

Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by testing22321 on Wednesday November 04, 2026 @01:00AM (#50361935)
I remember building a lc for a client, installing 2k then SP2. Clicking around installing our software thinking “this could be my main machine. This would be good”

Then it got a virus.

30 minutes after I finished installing windows.

Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by SoftTalker on Wednesday November 04, 2026 @09:52AM (#50366331)
Oh yes, security-wise it was a nightmare. I was talking about the UX. Efficient, consistent, and pretty minimalist. Animation effects started to appear but was easy to disable.
Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by cosmic_cheese on Tuesday November 03, 2026 @11:23PM (#50361478)
If they’d just taken Windows 10 and applied the Windows 11 theme (Fluent) that would’ve made for an OS that I wouldn’t have minded leaving on my gaming PC. That didn’t happen, and so now it’s now running Linux.

> Windows leadership should be fired and replaced by people who are actually Windows users, not MacOS users.

As a longtime Mac user, Windows leadership decisions don’t make any sense to me either. I have precisely zero interest in making 11 my primary OS… XP, 7, or 10 wouldn’t have been ideal but if I had no choice but to work with Windows those would be greatly preferable to 11.

Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by globalnode on Tuesday November 03, 2026 @11:33PM (#50361525)
as an avid gamer, win11 is the one that pushed me to use linux only. i would have LIKED to keep using windows but the way they treat their customers is unforgivable. when i go to a restaurant i give them 2 chances at annoying me before i go elsewhere, i gave the windows team what feels like a hundred chances. dont care what they do now, theyre history.
Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by fuzztester on Wednesday November 04, 2026 @02:54AM (#50362559)
re last para.

loss leader funda in action, prolly.

or, sort of: those who live together, stick together.

aka if you buy window pcs, you're likely to buy windows servers and vice versa.

Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by BizarroLand on Wednesday November 04, 2026 @02:32PM (#50370421)
Not a loss leader, it's still $17.08 Billion dollars (~5%) of their revenue according to bullfincher:

In fiscal year 2026, Microsoft Corporation's revenue by segment (products & services) are as follows:

    Dynamics Products And Cloud Services: $9.01 B
    Enterprise and partner services: $8.26 B
    Linked In Corporation: $19.82 B
    Microsoft Three Six Five Commercial Products And Cloud Services: $102.00 B
    Microsoft Three Six Five Consumer Products and Cloud Services: $9.18 B
    Other Products And Services: $109.00 M
    Search Advertising: $15.18 B
    Server Products And Cloud Services: $129.43 B
    Windows and Devices: $17.08 B
    XBOX: $21.79 B
This is down from 2024, when Windows was $23 Billion of revenue equaling nearly 10% of their annual revenue.

https://bullfincher.io/companies/microsoft-corporation/reven...

Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by ToucanLoucan on Wednesday November 04, 2026 @12:11AM (#50361707)
> As a longtime Mac user, Windows leadership decisions don’t make any sense to me either.

To be sure, as another Mac user, they make sense in that they want Apple's revenue and reputation. The problem is they categorically refuse to invest in their engineering staff to even remotely the degree Apple does, which is reflected in the "quality" of the products on offer.

Everyone wants to be Apple, and they're all convinced despite ongoing proof to the contrary, that they can do it for pennies on the dollar. It's genuinely kind of pathetic how desperate they are to be Apple.

Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by lostlogin on Wednesday November 04, 2026 @02:59AM (#50362600)
> Everyone wants to be Apple

Can they instead aim to be what Apple was? Being what Apple is or going where Apple is heading is rather gross.

Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by felixgallo on Wednesday November 04, 2026 @09:38AM (#50366137)
Microsoft's talent pool is deeper and equally smart. The problem is in the leadership, which grew fat and lazy and permitted a continuously terrible corporate culture and unfocused plan, and in the design. Microsoft's historical game plan is to copy and leverage its scale, but you can't copy and leverage scale in design or in management.
Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by TiredOfLife on Wednesday November 04, 2026 @01:41AM (#50362168)
> If they’d just taken Windows 10 and applied the Windows 11 theme

That is what they did. They took windows 10 added the theme and taskbar/start from the triple failed 10x added arbitrary cpu cutoff and released as 11.

Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by mapontosevenths on Tuesday November 03, 2026 @11:33PM (#50361533)
> Almost ever change in the past few years made Windows worse.

No, it's just made it worse for you. You aren't the customer though. Enterprises are customers, you're just a lowly user.

Hopefully one day someone at Microsoft will remember that customers are actually made out of users.

Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by jpardoe on Wednesday November 04, 2026 @01:41AM (#50362166)
How has it been made better for Enterprises?
Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by mapontosevenths on Wednesday November 04, 2026 @12:31PM (#50368794)
Just read the release notes. Almost every new feature is built with the enterprise in mind. Typically some very specific large customer (or two).[0]

Whether that is to the benefit of smaller enterprises is a separate question, but it's clear that almost all of the effort going into windows is (and has been) aimed at the enterprise. Users be damned.

In the example linked you'll see that most of the document only matters to corporate users. There are only 6 bullet points under "User Experience" out of many pages, and several of those items are also only relevant to enterprise... Unless you count the search "improvements".

I'm not sure that anybody sane would count search. Approximately zero percent of users want terrible web search built into the damned start menu. Microsoft is like "Now you can tell the difference between a program on your computer and malware from the internet with the same name!" As if it were the first time anyone had thought of it. It's obvious that confusing the users into clicking things on bing.com was the entire goal to begin with. It's become hateware.

[0] https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/whats-new/whats-ne...

Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by xscott on Tuesday November 03, 2026 @11:39PM (#50361560)
I'm sure you meant Windows NT 4. It's all kind of down hill after that, with worthwhile stopping points at Windows 2000 and Windows 7.
Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by mschuetz on Wednesday November 04, 2026 @12:00AM (#50361664)
I've recently switched from windows to Mac and it was so refreshing using a system that does not purposely work against the user. I don't agree with many design decisions in Mac (wtf is up with tabbing into apps I've closed, or not being able to tab through instances of an app without a separate shortcut?!) but at least they're not shoving telemetry and ads down your throat.
Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by flenserboy on Wednesday November 04, 2026 @12:28AM (#50361786)
(many) apps keep running without windows — all you closed was the last open window. cmd-~ switches between windows within a running app. this has been the case since the classic Mac days, & while it seems to drive those who come from Windows bonkers, long-term Mac users (at least all I've known) appreciate this small aspect of macOS as it makes a clear distinction between apps & windows. newer apps (some from Apple) which break this model are still maddening to use.
Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by mschuetz on Wednesday November 04, 2026 @01:14AM (#50361998)
> many) apps keep running without windows

That's fine, but I do not want to tab into an app whose last windows I have purposely closed. I closed it so I have a cleaner slate of apps to work with. If chrome is closed, it should not show up until I open it again. Not just windows but also linux make much more sense in that regard.

Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by fodkodrasz on Wednesday November 04, 2026 @03:15AM (#50362691)
1. do this on a non-us layout 2. do this with Firefox / Chrome and its in-private window. Those are not reachable with neither shortcut for me.

Mac is the most culturally colonialist minded thing in my experience, its i18n support is terrible for smaller languages.

The "windows bonkers" model is strangely copied by most third party windowsin systems, as it makes sense, with having the recency based tab order, and being a global list. For us who work with more than a single software and often have to work between two different software, maybe an editor and a terminal... it is usually pretty handy.

Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by skeletal88 on Wednesday November 04, 2026 @05:03AM (#50363398)
That is fucking annoying on mac. If i close the window, why is it useful to still have the application running without any windows. For example Finder? It still appears when alt tabbing, but when selecting it i get nothing. How is this a good design or good ux?
Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by solyin on Wednesday November 04, 2026 @05:06AM (#50363432)
Back in the olden days, when macintoshes were new, it took literal minutes to load the program off the disk. This was an improvement upon programs taking hours to load off cassette tape. So when you closed the last document, you didn't want to have to wait to load the program again if you were just going to start a new document in the same program. It just kind of persisted from there.
Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by mschuetz on Wednesday November 04, 2026 @06:20AM (#50364043)
It's fine to keep them active in the background, but the annoying thing is that Mac still shows them when tabbing, even though I closed them on purpose. I closed them because I do not want them to show up on my workspace.
Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by fodkodrasz on Wednesday November 04, 2026 @03:13AM (#50362679)
You must be using a different macos than me, or have not attempted to connect a mouse (Scroll Reverser), an external display (BetterDisplay), wanted to have sane power management (Amphetamine), want to reach all application windows with only the keyboard, wanted to close modal popups with only the keyboard, etc...

About telemetry, and ads: It is also present in MacOS, but less invasive indeed. And about not showing something down my throat: the other day my iphone just told me in declarative, with a single accept button: now your system will be updated to ios27 (download of updates was enabled, with manual confirmation).

Also having to unlock every app after every brew update in the applications as they "have been downloaded from the internet"... it is not something i'd call refreshing and not working against me.

Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by thw_9a83c on Wednesday November 04, 2026 @07:41AM (#50364769)
> want to reach all application windows with only the keyboard

So damn true. I never got the point of the MacOS windows management approach. It's a joke.

* Switch between non-minimized application windows: "⌘ + Tab" (but not between windows of the same application!)

* Switch between open windows of the same application: "⌘ + `" <- Yes, that's backtick, a different physical key depending on the keyboard language layout, WTF! (but doesn't work for minimized windows of that application)

* Switch between open and minimized windows of the same application: "Ctrl + ArrowDown" and use arrow navigation.

And yes, there's Exposé button/gesture, which, again, doesn't show minimized windows and doesn't work with an arrow navigation.

Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by ezst on Wednesday November 04, 2026 @04:28AM (#50363158)
> it was so refreshing using a system that does not purposely work against the user.

I don't share this optimism, Apple has not been a hardware-first/computers company in a very long time and nowadays makes more bucks profiling your consumption habits to sell you "content" on their ever more "content-consumption" oriented devices.

Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by dylanowen on Wednesday November 04, 2026 @07:06AM (#50364461)
I always install something like https://github.com/lwouis/alt-tab-macos (there are a few choices that all do something similar for alt-tab)
Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by flohofwoe on Wednesday November 04, 2026 @08:24AM (#50365219)
macOS is just a bit behind the curve. For instance a couple of years ago macOS added Windows Vista style permission popups, and Apple really doesn't want you to install UI apps outside the App Store, which is essentially the equivalent of "Windows SmartScreen".
Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by Melatonic on Wednesday November 04, 2026 @12:27AM (#50361782)
Every other windows is always terrible
Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by cubefox on Wednesday November 04, 2026 @01:39AM (#50362161)
> The incredible thing is that Windows 10 was already near perfect.

This is a ridiculous statement given how many people complained about it at the time!

There seems to be a common cognitive bias where things in the past are considered good and things in the present bad. So a few years from now, a bunch of people would say "Windows 12 is so bad, the incredible thing is that Windows 11 was already near perfect", completely forgetting the sentiment at the time.

Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by AlAjem on Wednesday November 04, 2026 @03:14AM (#50362681)
Windows 8 hasn't been vindicated by time yet, Windows releases have been more of a pendulum where every other major release is widely adopted (not necessarily beloved) after a misbegotten major release.
Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by protocolture on Wednesday November 04, 2026 @01:54AM (#50362236)
>. Almost ever change in the past few years made Windows worse.

I feel like this is the point. Microsoft don't want to support a consumer desktop OS anymore, and are pushing people to other devices, where their profitable cloud services are also available.

MS wants you to pay for authentication, office, cloud services etc without having to do consumer support or anything like that. I reckon they see Apple as the perfect partner for this, someone with a desktop experience compatible with their cloud experience.

Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by samiv on Wednesday November 04, 2026 @02:19AM (#50362381)
Because designers must design, programmers must program and managers must manage to ear a paycheck you have to change things even when they don't need changing. When you put this into a context of a greedy corporation that is completely self serving, i.e using the platform to serve their needs instead of those of the user it's inevitable that the product will turn into shit from the user perspective.
Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by leonidasrup on Wednesday November 04, 2026 @02:19AM (#50362382)
The biggest improvement in Windows 11 is increased locking of small users into Microsoft ecosystem and Microsoft cloud services.

This is not a improvement for the users, it's a improvement for Microsoft shareholders, because many users may decide to pay for additional Microsoft services (additional revenue after paying for the operating system) and it allows Microsoft to monetize customer data (Microsoft learned this business strategy from Google).

" Home and Pro (since version 22H2) edition installation requires internet connection and Microsoft account login (only if for personal use on Pro) is mandatory unless manually bypassed to create a local user. However, Microsoft has since blocked one of the last remaining easy bypass methods that allowed local account creation during initial setup, complicating the bypass process further. All other editions are excluded from this requirement. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_11#Setup

Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by kotaKat on Wednesday November 04, 2026 @04:26AM (#50363143)
Don't forget having to shove all the "recommendation" and "suggestion" systems into it, too, so they could add random sponsored apps to your Start menu primed and ready to install as soon as you clicked on them at the same time they push more notifications at you to use more OneDrive.
Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by thw_9a83c on Wednesday November 04, 2026 @07:16AM (#50364543)
> The biggest improvement in Windows 11 is increased locking of small users into Microsoft ecosystem and Microsoft cloud services.

It is true that it was a major scam by Microsoft against its users when they forced them to sign into an online Microsoft account during the Windows 11 installation. Especially the stubbornness and determination with which they patch all the loopholes in the installation process (just to make it impossible to install Windows without an online account) is remarkable.

But in all fairness:

* Microsoft practically stopped charging users for upgrades since Windows 10. Windows 10 could be installed for free from older Windows, and Windows 11 is again a free upgrade from Windows 10.

* How many macOS users actually press "Setup later" when setting up a new Mac and use macOS without an Apple account? I think there will be very few of them.

Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by dpoloncsak on Wednesday November 04, 2026 @01:49PM (#50369857)
We probably should have done it earlier, but this move is what forced my company to setup an MDT and do things proper instead of setting up windows and re-keying the license key to ours on each new laptop we got
Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by vbezhenar on Wednesday November 04, 2026 @02:38AM (#50362477)
I've been Windows 10 user for many years, but just few days ago I bought new laptop and went with Windows 11.

Honestly it's the same for me. Taskbar is a bit weird and start menu is a bit weird, but I was able to turn off unwanted features, so it's not bad right now.

I'm mostly Linux user and my Windows usage is more about gaming, but I did some programming with it as well.

Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by ahoka on Wednesday November 04, 2026 @04:00AM (#50363007)
I keep hearing this since Windows 98.
Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by misiek08 on Wednesday November 04, 2026 @04:49AM (#50363271)
That's why a lot of us still works on Windows 10. I'm always laughing hearing that on Win 11 even Task Manager breaks not showing process list, randomly. Clipboard on RDP breaks every few connections and requires killing process or restart. The funniest is when next person calls me and asks if he really needs creating Micro$hit account to just use PC for local stuff.

I hope someone at big corp will be so bored one day that he'll just start releasing Win 10 updates after reverse engineering the mechanisms and we will get Win 10 support again.

The rule still alive and stands strong - every second Windows is just a crap. ME, Vista, 8 and now 11.

Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by DanielHB on Wednesday November 04, 2026 @05:08AM (#50363437)
One thing that drives me nuts is just how they refuse to take the time and update all the settings pages to the new style. I don't hate the new style, in fact I think it is pretty okay (better than macos and KDE in some things, worse in others).

Like if you dig even slightly below the surface you get a dialog window straight from windows 95. Network settings for example, something I routinely have to deal with. It is absurd VPN companies make full-blown windows desktop software to tweak VPN settings on your PC because the default windows UI is so crap.

Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by xnx on Wednesday November 04, 2026 @05:56AM (#50363816)
There still a Windows 3.1 file picker in ODBC Data Source
Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by PaulKeeble on Wednesday November 04, 2026 @09:12AM (#50365801)
There is just so much of this old stuff on Windows that you run into if you need to do anything past the surface. So many old programs they just couldn't be bothered to rewrite to a new standard. Settings is what most people run into but the registry editor, all the permissions stuff, networking settings, the entirity of the control panel is a miss mash of different eras and on and on.
Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by ChoGGi on Wednesday November 04, 2026 @01:08PM (#50369312)
I like the old control panel; I don't use Explorer as my shell, so I can't use settings unless I close my shell and temp change it to Explorer.

I doubt there's many people using them, so I can see why they don't bother to support alternative shells.

Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by InsidiousWombat on Wednesday November 04, 2026 @05:14AM (#50363486)
W10 was still plenty annoying. It still had all of the MS bad practices. But it was stable(enough) and not too bloated compared to W11
Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by apercu on Wednesday November 04, 2026 @06:12AM (#50363951)
MacOS has gotten worse too. It’s leadership but it’s also too many employees trying to hit kpis (defined by poor leadership).
Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by customguy on Wednesday November 04, 2026 @07:19AM (#50364570)
For me the incredible thing is that Win 11 has any users. Microsoft announced Win 10 as the last OS, with updates from there on out. I assume the only reason Win 11 came into existence was to change EULA for more tracking and ads. I certainly never saw anything about how 11 is this fundamentally different thing that 10 couldn't have been updated into, that's why I have to assume it's for legal / user-hostile reasons.

Everybody should have simply ignored them. Win 10 yes, whatever you're trying to pull with 11, no. What could MS have done about that? Threaten to end support and then relent when nobody takes the bait?

Re:Microsoft fixes a Windows 11 annoyance as PC revenue decl... by 2III7 on Wednesday November 04, 2026 @05:34PM (#50372429)
I'll always remember that statement about 10 being a rolling release and will never ever consider having a windows machine at home. I had one for gaming before 11 was released and then moved gaming to Bazzite.