Yeah, but does Dell allow you to change your laptop's mainboard for another mainboard with time? That is such a quantum leap. You do not have to adjust your self to a new keyboard just because you wanted a new processor.

Also, buying a new mainboard every few years and putting the old mainboard on a shelf is a lot less sustainable than buying a complete new laptop and selling your old laptop to someone.

https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/MacBook+Air+13-Inch+Late+2020+U...

This argument is flawed for two major reasons:

1. You can do perform the exact same non-modular ownership experience with a Framework laptop. It's just a regular laptop. You don't have to use the modularity or repairability at all. You can treat it like any other laptop and sell it when you're done and buy a new one.

2. Framework systems are getting increasingly competitive over time. The 13 Pro is quite competitive in its field and is one of the best options in its size/price/use case category. What other Panther Lake laptop is offering a drastically superior value? I'm looking for a portable system with long battery life (Intel Panther Lake) that is primarily for text work and coding while being capable of decent gaming on the side (Nothing crazy, the X7 Panther Lake chip gives me enough GPU usage for my needs). I did a ton of research and basically narrowed down my list to the ThinkPad X9 15p Aura Edition and the ASUS Zephyrus G14. Last I checked the ThinkPad was roughly 10% cheaper with an equivalent spec, the OLED screen is lower PPI and worse for text work, the battery lasts 5 hours shorter performing office productivity tasks (Just Josh's testing methodology), and the webcam is/was broken in Linux. The 15" screen is almost exactly as tall but it's wider, I call that neutral to negative for backpackability (3:2 screen ratio is lovely). On the plus side, the ThinkPad does push more power to the CPU/GPU, improving overall performance compared to the Framework. The ASUS Zephyrus is only in the same price category if I buy the 2025 model which has more compromises compared to the current model, especially for non-gaming battery life (no Panther Lake). Even if I open up my wallet to buy the 2026 model, I am missing out on things like a haptic trackpad, and of course, if we think Framework's support/repair experience is lacking, we don't even want to talk about ASUS RMA horror stories.

Other Panther Lake options with the X7 356H:

HP Omnibook 7 16, $1419: too big, off-center keyboard with numpad (don't like), low PPI display.

Acer Swift 16 AI, $1549: too big, off-center keyboard w/numpad, 16GB soldered RAM, non-premium chassis, no charge port on the right side, loud fans

LG Gram Pro 16, $2999: more expensive than the Framework 13 Pro with same specs

ASUS ExpertBook Ultra 14, $3599: more expensive than the Framework 13 Pro with same specs

Of course, Framework's other systems like the 12, 16, and base 13 are not really as competitive as the 13 Pro in my mind, but still, I think there's this whole vibe like Framework buyers are really giving up a lot of basic laptop things and paying way more to get modularity. This was much more true 5 years ago, not so much today now that Framework has been selling in higher volumes and refining their designs over the years.

There's also 3rd party ARM and RISC-V mainboards, but I'd recommend the average user sticks to the x86_64 boards.

Business laptops are swapped out every few years.

Reusable chassis? Literally no one asked for this, it makes no sense outside of a very, very small community of enthusiasts who think it's cool. Restricting yourself to no mechanical changes/improvements in perpetuity is not the flex you think it is.

Keyboards wear out, the chassis gets dented/scratched. Thermal requirements change.

This feature is for no one.

I don't think any framework owner seriously thinks they are buying the most repairable laptop in the world or the most cost effective laptop in the world.

Stop buying new. Great retired business machines on eBay daily.

People like you and I are happy with this, but the average person could not care less about computers and simply need something to send emails, do taxes, and browse the internet. They don't want that extra burden, they want something that is guaranteed to "just work".

Proper second hand refurbishment pipelines that are well known and trusted is something we should aim for and want, but I believe the current state is that people want new and want cheap new. What is wrong with wanting cheap + new, and wanting laptop producers to cater to this?

People would buy refurbs a lot more if they were more noticeable/marketed. People “want” whatever electronics are on the shelf in front of them when it’s time to buy, if we’re talking general public now (I wasn’t trying to).

The main firms refurbing are also selling new, and so aren’t in a rush to eat their own lunch.

A Fairphone is repairable right now but might not be in the future.

It doesn't need to cost twice as much - https://www.hmd.com/en_int/hmd-pulse?sku=286947218 . It however does require legislation to make manufacturers comply. A good example is the minimum 2/3 year warranty mandate in EU (depending on the country) - https://www.eccnet.eu/consumer-rights/what-are-my-consumer-r...

How is this supposed to work exactly? The company builds a product that fails quickly, so that people will buy another one? I'm highly skeptical that this works on consumers. Almost nobody will buy the same brand after the first one craps out. And I'm certain that it doesn't work on companies who will track failure rates for the product across a large fleet.

Cheap products exist because of a race to the bottom. Some consumers care a lot about quality, but there is also a market for $150 Best Buy laptops for broke college students. These companies make both high- and low-end devices, cutting corners as necessary to meet that price point while still competing on quality and features. They're not building products worse on purpose, because that doesn't work in a competitive marketplace.

Framework benefits from the same halo effect as Apple: They only make high-end devices, and so they don't get judged for the cheap crap they make. It doesn't mean either company's products are actually better than mainstream offerings at the same price point.

Even if I'm wrong, and planned obsolescence is actually very lucrative: how long do you think Framework's "core values" will hold up against market incentives? Fortunately, we don't need to rely on that. Manufacturers make good products because consumers pay for them; that applies to Apple and Framework, but also high-end laptops from many other manufacturers. If they weren't more reliable and more repairable than the low-end laptops, then IT departments would just buy the consumer devices costing 5x less.

> ... but there is also a market for $150 Best Buy laptops for broke college students.

Sure. Why do you think such a market exists? Compare it with the Automobile industry, where really cheap cars (comparable to the $150 laptop market segment) don't really exist. Instead we have a flourishing second-hand market - a whole new industry around selling used cars. Even if a cheaper, lower quality car were to exist, people would still buy a good-quality, used car over a cheaper, lower quality one. Why? Repairability. Why would I buy a cheaper low quality car, if I can buy a good quality car that I can repair as needed, for the same price or even lower. A market for cheaper, new laptops exist because today you fear buying an older computer that is no longer repairable or upgradeable. (And note that it isn't as if the old products wouldn't make money - people will still need to buy the parts for it. The profits would be lesser than selling whole devices though). It is because electronics have somehow escaped the purview of consumer rights and repairability that even the Automobile industry (and others) have started including more and more electronics in them to make their products less repairable.

usb-c port is now dead, it is soldered.

Not going to happen to my https://frame.work laptop, 10 eur part, no soldering, not even a screwdriver, and good as new

Apple part number is 923-03553

Also available third party via various retailers.

It is a non-feature that results in a net loss of physical space for ports owing to their gargantuan size.

The actual USB-C port on a Framework is soldered to the motherboard. If you destroy the port electrically it is the same thing.

If you are inserting/removing cables like a gorilla, then buy a 3" dongle (aka magic Framework module) for your other laptop.

You've never moved your laptop without realizing it is still plugged in? I've done that a couple of times. My framework gives me peace of mind because I know the only port that will be damaged from that is the one on the $10 card because the card is firmly attached to the laptop body. Your suggestion of a 3" dongle doesn't have that benefit so yanking a plugged-in laptop could still cause a loose or broken port on your motherboard.

No.

This damage usually happens by tripping over the cord, which results in the laptop falling on the floor, so a USB-C port is the least of your worries.

There's a reason Apple went back to MagSafe.

Perhaps framework can learn from Apple here.

My headcannon is that the only reason the T14G7 is as repairable as it is, is due to the whole right to repair movement, including framework.

I preferred the older plastic coated Mg chassis ones. At least they were honest about the materials.

Personally I avoid laptops now since the T430 line. Desktops are faster, cheaper, more reliable, easier to repair and replace bits and most of the time I don't need to carry a computer around.

I don't trust iFixit's quite frank "press handjob" because they're giving higher repairability rankings for that junk compared to Apple who have replaceable ports and a good supply chain available to the end user. Also they were all over selling battery kits for Pixel phones which are a complete pain to replace the batteries in compared to an iPhone.

Not that Apple are the bastion of repairability, just their claims are less insane than both Lenovo's and iFixit's.

But only 3 in stock and 3x the price of the Apple ones. Good luck!

The P40 spent more time in the repair depot than in use before I replaced it with something that didn't ship with a fucked M.2 slot, a touchscreen that failed out of the box and then a month after replacement, and a battery that pillowed within a month after that.

The T14 Gen 2 bricked on a BIOS update. The pinhole reset didn't work, so it went to the repair depot, came back two weeks later with the BIOS updated. Next BIOS update bricked it again.

However, newer Lenovo Devices (like the Lenovo ThinkPad X9-15 Aura Edition which I would love to buy) are not that repairable any more. Sometimes I think it is for a reason, sometimes I think it may just be no longer reasonable. Even Framework claimed that their Desktop Ryzen 395+ RAM timings were to tight to allow using LPCAMM2 and if you'd like to get the last bit of performance out of a machine, short traces and soldered connections may be the only remaining option, even for SSDs. Additionally, OLEDs didn't make it into Frameworks notebooks yet and that might be a similar reason - harder repairability.

Whatever the reason is, I like Frameworks philosophy of LISTENING to customers and maybe their success has changed the way bigger vendors produce there stuff (if only a little bit). I'm not expecting Apple to do this, but at least HP and Dell seem to have slightly changed their path of vendor locking to be more repairable again.

I would bet that this story of a failed BIOS update reaches the support anytime soon and they provide a repair guide or maybe a replaceable BIOS chip. Stories like this are somehow sad but at least they help to improve.

BTW: Dell has great repairable business notebooks (I recently switched to a cheap Latitude 5420 - the T480s was getting to slow for some tasks), but there are caveats I immediately noticed and most people don't think of:

- Keyboard Backlight is way too bright in the lowest setting

- Keyboard layout is a bit off

- It cannot be opened with one hand

- Display Brightness steps are to low (using the ALT key could increase / decrease the step size, like in MacBooks)

- Display Brightness cannot be set to "off" / black screen (this only works on macbooks)

- The Dell 5520 Trackpad is horrible

- Nobody except Apple supports AudioJack-Headphones remotes for controlling audio playback and volume (with USB-C to audiojack Adapters this works out of the box on Linux)

Original author here. I like your optimism, but I've linked multiple threads on their forums with people doing the same problem going back over a year. I also pieced together most of the stuff from people doing external flashing on the forums. Still, no official guides, no changes as far as I can tell. This post is the most detail repair guide available right now.

If something happens after this, it would be because this post got to the top of HN and they have to respond to save face.

Thank you for making this guide. The knowledge in it can be transferred to other Brands, too.

> I like your optimism, but...

Well, I'm not saying framework is perfect. The Hardware is expensive, inferior to bigger brands and, as you stated, support is worse. The repairability promise is hardly relevant as long as you're keeping your notebook > 5 years taking good care of it like most people. The switchable ports are a nice gimmick but not a total game changer. However, I really hope they succeed while keeping most of their promises and not actively preventing repair like e.g. Apple.

> If something happens after this, it would be because this post got to the top of HN and they have to respond to save face.

That's the way it goes. As long as only few people raise their hand, nothing changes. That's why I'm thankful you kept going... Now it is likely you actually changed something for the better

The big issue we see on our Dell and Lenovo units is broken USB-C ports and the only repair method possible there is replace the motherboard. No ports on daughterboards like the MacBooks. And you can't just buy the parts from most vendors. Dell is utterly impossible and with Lenovo half the time they don't actually have any of the parts available or somehow manage to fuck up their shipping so they never turn up. Had to charge back Lenovo/Digital River twice. Zero support at all and impossible to contact anyone. And the whole PART NOT USER SERVICEABLE in the HMMs.

If you want Dell/Lenovo repairs just buy two of whatever.

At the same time iFixit are gushing all over Lenovo who are hell and pissing on Apple. The Apple who don't have this problem and I seem to have no problem getting parts for from their official parts store, the parts actually turn up and work.

I love my framework because it’s the only laptop where I can design a custom plugin module to talk to my hardware and EE testbench, but DIY repairability pales in comparison to a service network where the tech arrives with a library of spare parts faster than you can get a replacement from Amazon.

In general, I agree with you that the bigger laptop makers can repair laptops and do an amazing job.

What we're all here for though is 2026. No big company is coming to fix your machines, even big companies are waiting 30+ days for parts availability from the big company bros they bought from. If you're a consumer, forget about it.

"Many of them are Ubuntu-certified as well." I'm calling BS here. Dell and HP hide their limited, paltry Linux offerings in the back of their website. Define your use of "many."

Now we're down to the BIOS. Today's blog post encountered a failed BIOS update, and takes Framework to task for it. Some of the support team at Framework are really cool and would probably have detected this customer is https://xkcd.com/806/

This time he got the strict script follower for customer support. I hope it blows up on Framework.

This is how I define "many." Dell in particular seems to certify lots of laptops for Ubuntu support, even if they don't sell them with Ubuntu. It's not just their enterprise offerings, either; I see lots of consumer models.

Thinkpads have been a meme since the early 2010s.

It's funny to bring up the T480/s as positive example because I remember people complaining about anything past ~xx20 series.

> caught everyone's attention with the fun DIY repair angle

Framework is a reaction to the cult following a lot of the business laptops had. When people are spending $$ to retrofit modern mainboards to vintage Thinkpad chassis you know there's enthusiast money to be made there.

On balance, I think the framework has been a cool talking point, but yes, a 2015 dell would have supported all the improvements I made over time to my framework, provided it had all the ports I needed originally. It'd have definitely been bulkier though!