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Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by efitz on Monday May 25, 2026 @11:42AM (#48268150)
I’ve been on the defender side of security my whole career.

I know in some markets crime pays more than legitimate work, but it never ceases to amaze me how much thought, effort, planning, and engineering goes into providing infrastructure IT services for cybercriminals. The people involved definitely have the skills to be profitable at legitimate work; it just puzzles me that they choose to support criminals.

Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by Aurornis on Monday May 25, 2026 @11:56AM (#48268322)
I watched the downfall and eventual jailing of someone who had a great job, career, and family after he started getting involved in cybercrime.

As far as I can make sense of it, he enjoyed the thrill of feeling superior to others: Evading the law, exploiting people who viewed as stupid, and enriching himself in the process.

He got caught through a mistake that was really dumb in retrospect. I think he believed his intellectual superiority combined with the stupidity of others so much that eventually he couldn’t imagine anyone catching him.

Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by kspacewalk2 on Monday May 25, 2026 @12:42PM (#48268835)
>As far as I can make sense of it, he enjoyed the thrill of feeling superior to others: Evading the law, exploiting people who viewed as stupid, and enriching himself in the process.

I sadly see this pattern of thinking far more often than I want to in my fellow eastern Europeans.

Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by meindnoch on Monday May 25, 2026 @02:10PM (#48269861)
That's just what 40 years of communism does to a society.
Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by elmomle on Monday May 25, 2026 @02:20PM (#48269962)
If communism is the cause, then why would this same mentality be such a massive problem in America?
Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by locknitpicker on Monday May 25, 2026 @02:41PM (#48270171)
> If communism is the cause, then why would this same mentality be such a massive problem in America?

By communism I don't think people talk about the philosophical basis of an idealized society, but the totalitarian regime that oppresses a society and keeps the working class constantly in survival mode under the risk of losing it all.

Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by RRWagner on Monday May 25, 2026 @04:23PM (#48271264)
Well, that answers the America question.
Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by AngryData on Tuesday May 26, 2026 @12:01PM (#48281553)
Then they should be rallying against totalitarianism and authoritarian policies, not broad and vague ideas of "communism" that most people cant agree on the definition of. All it does is let people and politicians weasel around them using authoritarian policies because they aren't communist.
Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by locknitpicker on Tuesday May 26, 2026 @01:52PM (#48283206)
> Then they should be rallying against totalitarianism and authoritarian policies, not broad and vague ideas of "communism" that most people cant agree on the definition of.

You're nitpicking on semantics. Communism is the poster child of totalitarian regimes that oppress their citizens to extreme levels. When you talk about communism, people think of gulags, forced labor, murdering political opponents,and even force-admittong rivals to psychiatric hospitals.

Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by pocksuppet on Tuesday May 26, 2026 @02:00PM (#48283341)
Are you sure that's the route you want to go down? Going by the statistics, democracy has killed more people - in the USA, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc - than commuinsm has. If we go down that route. Which I don't think we should.
Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by mixdup on Monday May 25, 2026 @05:41PM (#48272003)
This mentality is a huge problem in America. We have insane amounts of corruption and just flat out crime. The corruption just rarely gets prosecuted in a courtroom
Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by kirubakaran on Monday May 25, 2026 @01:01PM (#48269055)
Let's not generalize, even if you feel like you can say that because you're a member of a group you're generalizing. It's unfair to most of the people in any group being generalized.
Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by quantummagic on Monday May 25, 2026 @01:39PM (#48269506)
Stereotypes exist for a reason. It's exhausting having to address this concern trolling every single time they're mentioned. Nobody thinks everyone in the group conforms to the stereotype. And they certainly don't need your white knighting.
Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by kirubakaran on Monday May 25, 2026 @01:49PM (#48269640)
It isn't "concern trolling" or "white knighting" to call out racism or bigotry, and expect some decency in the discussion. If it is "exhausting" for you to be propagating unfair stereotypes, perhaps stop your bad behavior?
Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by JCTheDenthog on Monday May 25, 2026 @02:20PM (#48269965)
Your comment assumes, a priori, that the stereotypes are in fact "unfair". I don't know enough about cybercrime rates per capita amongst Eastern Europeans vs. other populations to be able to say if it is actually an unfair stereotype, but it is an indisputable fact (supported by virtually every jurisdiction that tracks crime rates by things like national origin, ethnicity, etc.) that there are population level differences in crime rates.
Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by hermannj314 on Monday May 25, 2026 @02:06PM (#48269824)
I don't think a person saying Eastern European are observed doing something more than expected is inherently racist. It is a claim he either does or doesn't have evidence for.

If he made the claim with insufficient evidence or made the claim in contradiction of the evidence, then it becomes racist, but I don't think making the observation and doing the calculation is the racist part. It is a simple chi-squared goodness-of-fit test.

Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by Swizec on Monday May 25, 2026 @02:14PM (#48269903)
I’m eastern-ish european, is it even racist to say that tech talent in the region is through the roof but for various accidents of history, the best opportunities available to talented people are in cybercrime (both sides)?

Not everyone has a hundred tech unicorns in their back yard. I think my country (Slovenia) produced one in its entire history so far and even that was mostly in the US

Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by kspacewalk2 on Monday May 25, 2026 @04:44PM (#48271470)
Now I'm confused whether my observing patterns of behaviour and recurring beliefs clustered among people from my own part of the world are in fact racism or bigotry. Am I being indecent? Am I self-hating? Are others tolerhating? I only wish some white night would unambiguously tut-tut me or else give me a pass.
Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by antonvs on Monday May 25, 2026 @09:07PM (#48273809)
You're perhaps being parochial. If you lived in some other part of the world, are you sure you wouldn't observe something similar?

I've lived in four countries on three continents, from third world to first world, and human behavior is pretty constant across all of them.

Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by coldtea on Monday May 25, 2026 @06:24PM (#48272633)
It's racism when it's (a) racially motivated, (b) not a correct fact.

In this case the person is itself a member of the group, and the statement they made isn't even a generalization to the group at large - just an observation about certain common tendencies seen in it.

Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by kirubakaran on Tuesday May 26, 2026 @01:28PM (#48282865)
"observation about certain common tendencies" is literally what generalization is.

Racist remarks against your own people is worse, because not only does it perpetuate discrimination against a group by advancing a narrative about the group ("should we hire from this subgroup prone to x?"), it gives the bigots yet another vector ("even they themselves say it about their subgroup, so it must be true!")

We're on an international forum. Making "observations" like what the original commenter did can only decrease employment opportunities for an already geographically disadvantaged talent. Why do that?

Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by coldtea on Tuesday May 26, 2026 @03:08PM (#48284415)
>"observation about certain common tendencies" is literally what generalization is

I know. Are you maybe confused? I qualified it that it's not generalization "to the group at large". Not that it's not any kind of generalization at all.

>Racist remarks against your own people is worse, because not only does it perpetuate discrimination against a group by advancing a narrative about the group ("should we hire from this subgroup prone to x?"), it gives the bigots yet another vector ("even they themselves say it about their subgroup, so it must be true!")

Oh, come on. ranger_danger put it perfectly "There can be other valid perspectives than your own. Not everyone is going to agree with your specific definition of what's racism or bigotry or whatever, and not only is that OK, but it's expected, and we shouldn't try to change other people's minds unless they asked for our opinion.".

Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by ranger_danger on Tuesday May 26, 2026 @02:39PM (#48283954)
There can be other valid perspectives than your own. Not everyone is going to agree with your specific definition of what's racism or bigotry or whatever, and not only is that OK, but it's expected, and we shouldn't try to change other people's minds unless they asked for our opinion. There was especially no need to inject this discussion into the middle of an unrelated thread.

Trying to tell people their way of thinking is incorrect just because they disagree with you, is not only childish, but such dogmatic thinking is going to alienate you from a large part of society if you cannot learn to get along with people without constantly trying to correct everyone who you think is "wrong."

Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by jazz9k on Monday May 25, 2026 @07:53PM (#48273248)
IQ tests are basically the ability to spot patterns.

It really tells you something about US culture, when spotting patterns is now seen as racist or bigoted.

Patterns also can save your life. They are a built-in defense mechanism and many women are taught to ignore them.

Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by kspacewalk2 on Monday May 25, 2026 @04:41PM (#48271449)
Re-read my comment as it is written and note that my observation does not generalize.
Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by gessha on Monday May 25, 2026 @05:36PM (#48271948)
Generalization is a tool, not something inherently bad or evil.
Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by coldtea on Monday May 25, 2026 @06:22PM (#48272625)
Generalizing doesn't mean everybody or even most in the group. It means it's a common behavior in the group relative to other groups.
Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by KellyCriterion on Monday May 25, 2026 @01:42PM (#48269542)
sounds like Markus Braun & Jan Marsalek / Wirecard, the fraudsters :-D
Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by cm2012 on Monday May 25, 2026 @01:45PM (#48269581)
Sounds like Breaking Bad
Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by pbgcp2026 on Tuesday May 26, 2026 @03:27AM (#48276305)
His stupidity was to let you see him. Let that sink in.
Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by Rp8yXmdmr on Tuesday May 26, 2026 @05:38AM (#48277325)
> he enjoyed the thrill of feeling superior to others [...] He got caught through a mistake that was really dumb in retrospect.

It seems to be common occurrence. I still can't get over that one hacker who dumped stolen data on forum, to sell it/prove his capabilities, in form of tar.gz archive, that accidentally included his entire home directory

Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by r_lee on Monday May 25, 2026 @11:50AM (#48268243)
> The people involved definitely have the skills to be profitable at legitimate work; it just puzzles me that they choose to support criminals.

I don't think it's that easy to go legit. having a tech job nowadays is already a luxury

Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by amelius on Monday May 25, 2026 @12:02PM (#48268404)
Cybersecurity is always last on the budget list. It is not easy to make money working in cybersecurity.

The only upside here is that criminals will (through legislation) eventually force companies to invest more.

Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by ruined on Monday May 25, 2026 @11:52AM (#48268271)
often the issue is capital. they're working for money, at the end of the day.

you can build your own skills and develop your own motivation. but if the only funding you can access is illicit, there's one path forward.

or maybe it's ideological. this example seems to be a bit of a geopolitical thing too.

Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by thewebguyd on Monday May 25, 2026 @12:28PM (#48268696)
It's not easy to go legit, especially in today's job market, depending on where you live in the world also.

The US is unique with its high salaries for tech work (on the lower end of those of high salaries is pure ops work like this though). If you're in a country where the average sysadmin salary is substantially lower (to pick on Eastern Europe for a minute, you're looking at the equivalent of ~$30-35k USD/year), it's not hard to see why its tempting to go the cybercrime route.

Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by locknitpicker on Monday May 25, 2026 @03:01PM (#48270391)
> to pick on Eastern Europe for a minute, you're looking at the equivalent of ~$30-35k USD/year

This is a disingenuous claim. Not only are there software engineers in rich western European countries that in absolute terms earn less than that but also your east European software engineer still earns multiple times their country's average salary.

Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by goobatrooba on Monday May 25, 2026 @05:21PM (#48271821)
I think s/he meant that if you earn 30k it's easy to be tempted by crime because the numbers are big. What night not tempt a Google engineer might tempt a telecoms infrastructure key from Anytinytown, Moldova/Romania/...

That said I don't think there are many good software engineers that earn less than that in Western Europe. Net maybe, but certainly not gross, and if it's net that covers anything from pension security to healthcare, meaning you can live a decent life in most places.

Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by locknitpicker on Tuesday May 26, 2026 @01:27AM (#48275359)
> I think s/he meant that if you earn 30k it's easy to be tempted by crime because the numbers are big.

I'm pointing out that this reasoning doesn't pass the smell test. A 30k salary in those countries actually represents between 5-to-10x your average salary. You are already considered rich and we'll off and leading a comfortable life.

It's like claiming your average FANG engineer earning half a million a year would be easily tempted to engage in criminal activity if that meant they could aspire to earn a few millions instead.

> (...) meaning you can live a decent life in most places.

Yes, there are only a few countries on earth where your average software engineer earns more than that, and mostly because their average salary and cost of living is already way larger. Some sources even state that the average salary of s software engineer in Japan is as low as $36k/year. Japan has a higher cost of living than most east European countries, they have a reputation of competence and technical expertise, and still you don't see Japan as synonymous with cybercrime.

Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by nerdsniper on Tuesday May 26, 2026 @03:11PM (#48284466)
The median annual salary in places like Moldova and Romania is $3-6k USD? Edit: apparently $5k and $10k, respectively.
Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by r_lee on Monday May 25, 2026 @01:15PM (#48269194)
why is this downvoted?
Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by KellyCriterion on Monday May 25, 2026 @01:44PM (#48269575)
...because on HN, experiences which somehow contradict the perspective when salaries are highly varying across countries, esp. when someone decides to pick an explicit example, which, even if it shows the truth, is against the base-assumption of the reader of a comment.

To put it somehow dimplomatic :-D

Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by KellyCriterion on Monday May 25, 2026 @04:57PM (#48271590)
OP: So it was clear, I will get downvoted too :-D
Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by KellyCriterion on Monday May 25, 2026 @05:38PM (#48271967)
@HN ALL: Give me more downvoting, you deducted already a significant pointcount!

:-D

Honestly: I Like when implicit political statements form their groups.

NOW give me additional downvotes!! GOGOGOG!!!!!

Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by KellyCriterion on Monday May 25, 2026 @05:56PM (#48272436)
Good one!

NEXT ONE!

Give me more downvotes because of missing the HN-political correctness :-))

Looking forward to at least 100+ downvotes, guys!

Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by dist-epoch on Monday May 25, 2026 @12:33PM (#48268751)
You fail to take into account the ideological angle.

Some people are ready to die for their beliefs. Others just to run businesses supporting their causes.

3 of the 4 persons named have russian links (a large number of Moldovan citizens are ethnic russians).

Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by spwa4 on Monday May 25, 2026 @12:55PM (#48268980)
> Some people are ready to die for their beliefs.

Really? Because while I've seen this, rarely, in individuals. In many cases once you start tracing money the amounts involved in many "die for their beliefs" situations is absurd. Terrorism, for example.

Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by cpursley on Monday May 25, 2026 @01:06PM (#48269106)
What point are you trying to make other than bigotry? Ethic Russians are not the only Eastern Europeans perpetuating cyber crime. Anyways, Nesterenko is a Ukrainian surname - at least get your racism correct.
Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by SoftTalker on Monday May 25, 2026 @12:37PM (#48268793)
Some people are just born into it. Mafia families, etc. There were some very smart people in the American mob, running scams that were immensely profitable. Eventually they get caught though, and with the ease and pervasivness of electronic surveillance today, it's pretty much impossible to do it anymre at least if you're anywhere where the authorities care about it (edit to add: and aren't in on it).
Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by parliament32 on Monday May 25, 2026 @12:40PM (#48268823)
Imagine working for an organization where 1) cybersecurity is actually the #1 priority, ahead of "shareholder value" and all the other gobblygook, 2) you get to design systems where you actually have to assume that every other entity is malicious (not the usual carve-outs like "oh yeah we do zero trust.. but our entire management plane is Azure-managed it's unavoidable"), 3) your budget is effectively unlimited, and 4) you get paid several factors more than you would in private industry.
Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by davidwritesbugs on Monday May 25, 2026 @01:31PM (#48269399)
In a previous life I've employed contractors and software engineers to run a criminal website. Motivations for my guys were that it was well paid work that was technically challenging in order to evade enforcement agencies, and was 'fun' in that respect; they were "sticking it to than man (my service was regarded as moral by all my users & others); and there wasn't so much work about that they could pick and choose; lastly, I was a good employer because I had to be!!
Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by fancythat on Monday May 25, 2026 @01:47PM (#48269607)
Because they cannot be profitable. Job market is not the same on both ends. If you are east European and you try to get a job in an international corporation, the in all cases offer salaries adjusted for regional averages, unless you are willing to reallocate. Only few startups and FAANG like companies, often compensation in line what is received in the western world.

And there is also a thrill of doing it, which other guys already mentioned.

Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by sandeepkd on Monday May 25, 2026 @02:00PM (#48269750)
If we use one of the comments from here that it was done at the behest of some government then its more like the offensive team of a legitimate government. Pretty much every thing can be colored grey that way and one just needs to find people that they can persuade or convince for their cause.
Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by derefr on Monday May 25, 2026 @02:46PM (#48270231)
I wouldn't advise thinking of it as "providing infrastructure IT services to cybercriminals", as if these people are primarily IT people, running primarily infrastructure, who just happen to favor this audience.

I would rather advise thinking of these efforts as various cybercriminal groups going through the schlep of setting up their own backend IT infrastructure for their own use (because they couldn't find anyone to host them); and then, with built infra in hand, either:

1. realizing that their own needs were emblematic of a more-general unmet market demand for "don't ask, don't tell" hosting, and so branching out into hosting as a secondary business;

2. taking the charade of a hosting company they made up when e.g. registering for an ASN, and deciding that the more real they make that charade, the more it protects them; and so slapping together a facade of a hosting site (that serves no real customers and has no real control-plane);

3. or deciding that having real customers with actual legitimate traffic coming from their ASN further legitimizes them (and makes other ASNs more wary to just block them wholesale), and so actually standing up the facilities of your average VPS provider on some single sad box somewhere — probably running some turn-key IaaS appliance (usually not OpenStack, more likely some shoddy old thing they bought on a cybercrime marketplace);

4. or (and I think this is the most common route) chatting with cybercriminal friends of theirs, and those friends hitting them up for hosting when they realize that they've actually built something out for themselves; and this gradually just evolving into a de-facto hosting arm of the business (as they accept more of these "high-touch" word-of-mouth customers; eventually begin to feel burdened by manually configuring their systems to accommodate these customers; and so begin to automate things.)

Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by pocksuppet on Tuesday May 26, 2026 @02:02PM (#48283360)
Both forms exist. There are real hosting companies that just turn a blinder eye to crime than others, and those ones should maybe be forced to divest from certain customers but shouldn't be completely raided. And there are cybercrime groups who form fake hosting companies. These ones were from the latter group. I tried to rent servers from them once, but they don't actually take customers because they aren't a real hosting company.
Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by thrownthatway on Monday May 25, 2026 @03:50PM (#48270863)
Some people provide services exclusively, or partially, to government(s).

Crime really isn’t that much different.

Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by cryptoegorophy on Monday May 25, 2026 @09:29PM (#48273926)
You were not born in eastern Europe that’s why. That’s the whole Eastern European mind set - the only way to succeed is to rip people off or scam. Anything else is already taken or no money in it or government will take it away from you.
Re:Netherlands Seizes 800 Servers, Arrests 2 for Aiding Cybe... by afroboy on Tuesday May 26, 2026 @04:06AM (#48276633)
> it just puzzles me that they choose to support criminals.

Same reason for CIA and NSA engineers.