News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to ... by sschueller on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @10:08AM (#48208079)
I trust my government (Switzerland) way more to do the thing that is right for the people and the law then some private company that has the primary goal of making money. It doesn't mean that governments don't make mistakes but the primary goal is to serve its people.

That is what government is for in a functioning democracy. A functioning government is of the people for the people.

Re:Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to ... by rozap on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @11:21AM (#48209255)
The American mind cannot comprehend
Re:Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to ... by dismalaf on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @12:12PM (#48210058)
It's a joke but Visa and Mastercard are American corporations so Americans can feel relatively secure using them. If you live in another developed country, relying on the whims of American entities feels less secure than something subject to the laws of your own country.
Re:Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to ... by brnt on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @04:09PM (#48213395)
American consumers have no democratic control of that duopoly either.
Re:Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to ... by lobocinza on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @09:18PM (#48216592)
To be fair both are publicly traded and owning shares would give you voting rights.
Re:Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to ... by brnt on Thursday May 21, 2026 @02:42AM (#48218767)
Point is: traded companies function like a democracy in which money is a vote, which is the opposite of democracy.
Re:Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to ... by cuteboy19 on Saturday May 23, 2026 @04:29AM (#48245884)
this doesn’t sound reassuring. there is not a nationality test on buying shares
Re:Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to ... by dismalaf on Thursday May 21, 2026 @09:42AM (#48222417)
They're protected by the laws of their country. Foreigners aren't. That's the point.

Americans corporations have shown they'll just pull out of countries if the law comes down on them too hard.

Re:Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to ... by _DeadFred_ on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @11:49AM (#48209721)
Dang has stated these sorts of comments do not belong on HN news. Discussion of specifics are fine, but nationalist slurs are not.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48100358

Re:Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to ... by switchbak on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @12:46PM (#48210531)
I don't think that's a slur, my friend. I think it's a statement of the American mindset. Then again, I'm not American, what do I know.
Re:Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to ... by ExtraRoulette on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @01:53PM (#48211478)
I'm American. Definitely did not think this was a slur.
Re:Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to ... by _DeadFred_ on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @02:51PM (#48212291)
I strongly disagree. Substitute with 'the Chinese mind can't comprehend' or 'the Palestinian mind can't comprehend' or 'the Muslim mind can't comprehend' or 'the African American mind can't comprehend' or 'the immigrant mind can't comprehend'. Obviously that would be a slur and not an acceptable way to phrase a point.

HN rightly didn't allow these type of generalization comments against Russians after it invaded Ukraine. HN rightly doesn't allow these types of generalization comments at Palestinians. It's wild to me the different standard applied lately to similar comments towards Americans. Definitely a discourse erosion/strain going on on this site when it comes to certain topics/nationalities/generalization of peoples and stereotyping/labeling.

In the link I gave dang set the rule that these sort of comments applied towards a nationality aren't acceptable here and an instance of dang actively stepping in to enforce it.

Re:Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to ... by rozap on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @03:15PM (#48212613)
America was literally founded on this premise, and it should come as no surprise that our government has (d)evolved into what the founders felt was inevitable.

America is fairly exceptional in that it's not racist to say "Americans are ____" given it's a melting pot of so many different races and cultures. That's a beautiful thing, but something that the white supremecists in control of the US are working to erode.

Edit: damn I think this account is actually a bot. It's only pro Israel talking points, islamaphobia, and appeals to the mod to get people banned.

Re:Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to ... by _DeadFred_ on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @03:46PM (#48213096)
dangs rule is about nationality, not ethnicity. "You can't post nationalistic slurs to HN" Wanting consistent enforcement of standards is not wrong on my part. HN routinely attempts such with HN posters routinely calling out when comments are not in line with HN standards. Am I misunderstanding community enforcement on HN?

India is made up of an incredible mix of ethnic peoples. Yet saying 'the Indian mind can't comprehend' would be considered a slur.

Your thinly veiled attempt to align me with white supremacists is EXTREMELY out of line.

As is calling me a bot out of line. Ad hominems that I am a bot because I push back on topics HN SPECIFICALLY chose to make an exception for (look at my comments prior to that since you are digging through looking for character assisnations) is unreasonable on your part. Either discussion is open on the topic, or it should not be allowed. Not some weird space when only one sides perspective on the topic is tolerated and having challenging views makes one a bot. Again during discussion on Russia's invasion, it was not allowed to call people defending Russia/Russians bots. There seems to be erosion/strain of standards here since then.

Nothing I have said is islamaphobic. One can challenge ideas/religions. Bringing up their history/failings is not phobic but is needed to push for productive/healthy change.

As was recently pointed out to me, you might want to look to PGs thoughts on discussion and adjust how you respond to thoughts you disagree with. https://paulgraham.com/disagree.html

I will admit I'm old so I don't have a lot relevant to ad to a lot of current tech discussions here but I will try to add more.

Re:Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to ... by handedness on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @04:33PM (#48213712)
> Edit: damn I think this account is actually a bot. It's only pro Israel talking points, islamaphobia, and appeals to the mod to get people banned.

This kind of thing degrades discussion. Please don't do that here.

Re:Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to ... by rozap on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @09:18PM (#48216594)
You're right, it does, and my edit was my emotion getting the better of me. But when you realize you're interacting with an account that only posts about the same few talking points and never contributed to tech discussion, I think it's a reasonable conclusion to come to. I was wound up enough to check his profile, which yea...don't do that, but he got me. Bot and troll accounts are good at that, whereas generally discussion on hn is alright, even if the viewpoints are disagreeable.
Re:Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to ... by handedness on Friday May 22, 2026 @03:06AM (#48232909)
With all due respect, you did it again.
Re:Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to ... by array_key_first on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @01:56PM (#48211536)
What's the slur here? American? Mind?

I'm American, and I wasn't offended. Because it's true, we actually can't comprehend this because we are the poster child of government via huge corporations. We literally don't know what it's like to have a functioning and trustworthy government handling these things, it's completely foreign to us.

Re:Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to ... by CPLX on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @12:36PM (#48210380)
Americans are pretty aware that government by large, multinational, unaccountable corporations sucks and has basically all of the downsides of big government without any of the accountability upsides.

American media may be less likely to share that narrative with you. But the actual people figured this out a while ago and they're mad.

Re:Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to ... by throwway120385 on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @01:54PM (#48211494)
If I had the Swiss government instead of the US Federal Government I'd trust it a lot more too.
Re:Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to ... by marssaxman on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @10:55AM (#48208904)
I hope I get to live in such a place some day.
Re:Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to ... by mothballed on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @11:55AM (#48209820)
It's 90-95% euro white citizen voting block and extremely difficult to naturalize in, and also sidestepped some of the WWII fallout by being neutral and encased in mountains. Whether this has anything to do with their situation today, I suppose, is up for debate, but these particular facts won't be reproduced in the USA.
Re:Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to ... by kuboble on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @12:27PM (#48210258)
I think this focuses on the wrong issues.

Tin my observation the main advantage of swiss system is the institution of the referendum.

It means that every major decision is decided by the people. The elected government decides on the 99.9% other issues.

The consequence of this system is that absolute majority of public discourse focuses on the issues and problems and not party affiliation.

So e.g. the most consequential election isn't the one where you have to choose the guy who will make everything great again, but e.g. the referendum if the country should spend billions over the next decades on the new tunnel under alps instead of other infrastructure projects.

Re:Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to ... by mothballed on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @12:40PM (#48210447)
You're completely ignoring that the Swiss system itself was a cultural output of that voting block, one they've kept remarkably insular, and with the remnants of this system going back to something like at least the middle ages. And then lucked out in many ways in WWII where most of Europe did not. The system didn't make the 90-95% euro voting block, the 90-95% white euro voting block made and support the Swiss direct democracy system itself in the context of finding it functional for their relatively insular society.

You can't just ramrod a cultural output into other cultures and expect it to work or even expect different voting demographics who might have individually accepted direct democracy to continue to do so once put in a more diverse country. They tried democracy in Somalia and it worked worse by most measured metrics (including economic) than the xeer system of tribal hearings and decentralized governance for which their culture had adapted.

Re:Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to ... by kuboble on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @01:07PM (#48210823)
The system is unique to Switzerland.

But it's not the consequence of the skin color or the neutrality. All European countries have been practically 100% white until not long ago with vastly different outcomes.

Re:Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to ... by mothballed on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @01:20PM (#48211020)
Liechtenstein is probably the closest second in direct democracy nature in Europe and I'd argue the outcome was close, maybe even better. They do also have some quasi-monarchist elements too though -- they have a monarch but also right of secession (unique in europe I think) to check the monarch so they have basically a direct democracy clamp on any monarchist tyranny on direct democracy outputs.

I think the results have been pretty consistent that out of places 90+% euro-white voters in direct democracy and relatively neutral in WWII performed well (Lichtenstein was neutral in WWII too). I think it's harder to find examples of the creation and effectiveness of direct democracy in places where there is a lot more variance in culture -- Uruguay might be one good example but they are also probably the most guarded of citizenship in all of South America (you can very easily get residency but the judges will produce endless BS requirements if you try to become a citizen; they basically will not let it happen).

>But it's not the consequence of the skin color or the neutrality

Lets not pretend we're referring to the actual melanin in skin jumping out and doing something. No one thinks an albino kid of black parents is suddenly going to think like a Swiss voter.

>All European countries have been practically 100% white until not long ago with vastly different outcomes.

The outcomes of WWII ~neutral nearly all euro white fairly direct democracies (that's basically, switzerland and Lichtenstein) have actually been highly correlated with some of the best outcomes in the world, so I'm not sure how on earth you came to this conclusion or straw man argument that merely having white skin is magically gonna get you anywhere.

Re:Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to ... by kuboble on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @03:58PM (#48213272)
Lichtenstein is so deeply integrated with Switzerland and for many purposes is a little more independent swiss canton that it doesn't hold as separate example.

Swiss culture of democracy in unique in the world and is unique among 100% white countries. It's bread among others from its unique geography and history.

Swiss are genetically indistinguishable from French, German, Italian or Austrian neighbors.

When did culture developed, other 100% white countries (which many didn't exist in their modern shape) like Slavic states, Nordic states, Germanic states, French, Spanish, Portugal, Italian, Greek, Balkan etc. All of them have not developed anything like Switzerland.

Credit goes to very specific swiss culture, and the claim that it is what you get of you put white people together... just doesn't hold.

And the swiss neutrality was just a pragmatic decision at a time and today the concept of neutrality is often being questioned in Switzerland while the democratic system is not.

Re:Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to ... by mothballed on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @04:16PM (#48213490)
No I'm claiming swiss culture is people of 90-95% white euro voting block. Not that 90-95% white skin and magically out of that will dump swiss culture. Whatever white supremacism straw man you think you're arguing against, it's laughably hilarious how hard you are trying to reframe my argument to match it.

Of course I can't prove it, but it was absolutely magical how my comment was flagged the immediate moment after your initial comment posted. So I suspect, this was never a genuine response anyway, you just couldn't help yourself making your little note while flagging mine because if you had reversed the order your fake little straw man argument couldn't have been injected in. And don't bother with "it wasn't me" because it's really only you and I reading at this point and I'm not going be duped.

What we have is a story of direct democracy working in a remarkably insular voting block of 90-95+% white euro voters with a fairly organically evolved direct process going back to in at least various elements the middle ages. And relative neutrality in WWII. When your bullshit argument turned out to be false about varied results (Lichtenstein was consistent when they did the ~same thing) you tried to wash it away as Swiss-adjacent while also claiming swiss are just an indistinguishable mixture of French, German, Italian etc -- defeating your own argument.

The only consistent rebuttal you have is your absurd white supremacism straw man whenever the weaknesses of your argument is pointed out. Which really, just shows how laughably weak of a ground your thoughts stand on.

Re:Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to ... by unethical_ban on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @12:03PM (#48209929)
I assume the concern is more about moving to mandated digital currency where every transaction is tracked by the government, no cash allowed.
Re:Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to ... by JumpCrisscross on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @10:16AM (#48208238)
> I trust my government (Switzerland)

I do, too. I’m not sure I trust Brussels.

Re:Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to ... by surgical_fire on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @10:50AM (#48208825)
I certainly trust the EU a lot more than I trust US corporations.
Re:Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to ... by JumpCrisscross on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @12:11PM (#48210047)
Oh, 100%. But the choice here is between European banks and a state-run Pix equivalent.
Re:Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to ... by izacus on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @12:02PM (#48209916)
I even trust EU more than the local corrupt country governments.
Re:Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to ... by Lionga on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @11:07AM (#48209064)
Considering the head of EZB is a convicted criminal with, lets call it interesting, letters to the convicted criminal Sarkozy I am not sure what is plague and what cholera.
Re:Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to ... by wsng on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @11:59AM (#48209879)
Lagarde is not a convicted criminal. She was convicted for negligence, but this is not a criminal conviction.
[dead]
Re:Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to ... by Fnoord on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @12:29PM (#48210295)
Why use a LLM when you got Wikipedia [1]. Which references an article in The Guardian [2]:

> A French court convicted the head of the International Monetary Fund and former government minister, who had faced a €15,000 (£12,600) fine and up to a year in prison. But it decided she should not be punished and that the conviction would not constitute a criminal record. On Monday evening the IMF gave her its full support.

> The verdict came as a surprise as even the public prosecutor had admitted the evidence against Lagarde was “weak” during a five-day trial last week. Jean-Claude Marin told the court Lagarde’s actions fell into the category of politics and not criminality and called for her to be acquitted.

If the public prosecutor admits the evidence is weak, then I take that at face value. I'm open to evidence of the contrary, but without such, I just have to assume the case was weak.

It does strike me as odd that she was convicted. I suppose the evidence wasn't negligible.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christine_Lagarde#Conviction_o...

[2] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/19/christine-laga...

Re:Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to ... by throwaway2037 on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @01:15PM (#48210927)
Hat tip. I did not think to check Wiki for this issue. Thanks.

I agree: The comment from the public prosecutor is excellent. To me that is a very strong sign of a well-balanced, highly functioning democracy (and its legal system).

Re:Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to ... by Fnoord on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @12:17PM (#48210124)
Lets see. Gerhard Schroeder, fled to RU. Nicolas Sarkozy, convicted. Silvio Berlusconi, convicted. Geert Wilders, convicted. Slobodan Milošević, convicted. Jean-Marie Le Pen, convicted. Marine Le Pen, convicted.

Donald Trump, convicted (pardoned everyone who attempted a coup on Jan 6 2021).

Victor Orban, surely he'll get convicted.

Benjamin N., Vladimir P.: wanted by ICC.

(This excludes cases like Jan Maršálek / Wirecard fraud / GRU spy. Also, have a peak at all the cleaning Zelenski's government had to do, including in his inner circle.)

Seems we in Europe at least are attempting to uphold the rule of law. I can't say the same for US corporations or US government, given the current administration. That being said... can we stop voting for these narcissistic criminals? Thank you in advance.

Re:Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to ... by niemandhier on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @12:31PM (#48210329)
I met Mr Schröder on Saturday in the Opera. I can therefore vouch that he is not in Russia.
Re:Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to ... by ekianjo on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @01:10PM (#48210865)
> attempted a coup

funny everyone forgot to bring guns for the coup

Re:Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to ... by philipallstar on Thursday May 21, 2026 @08:04AM (#48221294)
Having seen some of the footage, that is the oddest coup attempt I've ever seen. Wasn't the only violence a police officer shooting a woman climbing into a window?
Re:Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to ... by dvfjsdhgfv on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @11:19AM (#48209231)
Taken into account than of two convicted criminals, Sarkozy went to prison and will probably be sent there again, whereas Trump is running a big country, I'm pretty sure which is which.
Re:Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to ... by ekianjo on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @01:08PM (#48210837)
Do they deserve your trust?
Re:Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to ... by surgical_fire on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @01:57PM (#48211549)
The government? Either the national government or the EU get legitimacy by being democratic instructions. That doesn't mean they get blind faith, it is healthy to scrutinize their actions.

US corporations on the other hand get only my contempt and scorn.

Re:Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to ... by 7tflutter7 on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @01:55PM (#48211518)
Trust Switzerland? Protonmail is literally fleeing Switzerland. You now have to upload Government ID to use any online service with more than 5k users!! They are also now requiring backdoors (Article 50a). Literally the end of privacy!

It's honestly depressing no one talks about this, or even knows about this.