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Re:The whole thing was a scam by mentalgear on Saturday February 28, 2026 @12:50PM (#47198181)
PS: If openly bribing a crony gov to cancel your competitor is now the de-facto standard of making business in the US, I don't see how any rational investor could still see US companies as a secure investment. When the rule of law degrades into pay-to-play politics, the inevitable result is a mass exodus of both capital and top-tier talent.
Re:The whole thing was a scam by jfengel on Saturday February 28, 2026 @01:39PM (#47198733)
It's bizarre seeing the outright bribery.

A lot of things that people call "bribery" is really just ensuring that your preferred candidate gets in office. You couldn't give money directly to the candidate for personal use. Donations went to the campaign of the guy who already agreed with you. The FEC used to take a dim view of outright pay-for-service, even dressed up.

This is new. And now people need to decide how they feel about that. They get one chance to say "no, that's not how we do things." Even if the administration suffers a blow this November, if they hear that this is mostly acceptable to their base, it will be what every politician does from here on.

Re:The whole thing was a scam by coldtea on Saturday February 28, 2026 @03:29PM (#47199889)
>A lot of things that people call "bribery" is really just ensuring that your preferred candidate gets in office.

Having a preferred candidate you give money to is already bribery - whatever the law says. You fund your favorite pony to get the power. They then scratch your back or lend a sympathetic ear.

Re:The whole thing was a scam by Nevermark on Saturday February 28, 2026 @04:03PM (#47200203)
Simply spending money to get someone you like elected isn’t bribery.

To the degree great inequality leads to this being decisive in elections, it is a corrupting influence, but the term for it is still not “bribery”.

But when a presidential candidate tells oil companies they should donate because he is going to help them, that’s solid bribery.

When companies pay to “settle” ridiculous accusations, or “donate” to a president’s causes, while their mergers or other business legal issues depend on an openly pay-for-play president’s goodwill, that’s solid bribery.

The country’s policies, discipline, reputation and competence (economic, diplomatic and political) are being sold off for a tiny fraction of what their future adjusted value is worth.

Re:The whole thing was a scam by yencabulator on Saturday February 28, 2026 @05:29PM (#47200993)
In actual functioning democracies political donations are capped severely.

Say, a single donor can contribute a maximum of €6,000 per parliament candidate per election.

Yes, that's a real limit.

Re:The whole thing was a scam by kelnos on Saturday February 28, 2026 @06:46PM (#47201837)
We used to have laws like that, but apparently our supreme court believes that bribing politicians is political speech, and curtailing that speech is unconstitutional, so...

It's so broken.

Re:The whole thing was a scam by apparent on Saturday February 28, 2026 @11:58PM (#47203871)
Are you aware that the Citizens United case was actually about a movie? It wasn't about handing someone a stack of cash. When I see perspectives like yours, I wonder what you would say is the right way to handle the question of whether someone can make a movie that portrays a candidate in a positive or negative light. It seems to be pretty clearly a matter of free speech (first amendment), so unless there's some other provision of the constitution that would override that, I don't see how it could be forbidden.

To the extent that a pretty big chunk of donations are used to fund very short movies (we call them ads) for or against candidates, I'm not sure how that can be distinguished. I could see how one would distinguish get-out-the-vote or other similar non-speech type activities, but those on the Left seem to not oppose such expenditures.

Re:The whole thing was a scam by Nevermark on Sunday March 01, 2026 @04:17AM (#47205073)
The conversation included money-corrupted political speech vs. bribery.

The Citizen's United case being relevant to the former.

Re:The whole thing was a scam by contrast on Sunday March 01, 2026 @06:35AM (#47205813)
That’s a profoundly incorrect misunderstanding of the Citizens United decision, which was to remove restrictions on political spending by corporations.

In other words, by your distinction, the decision was about stacks of cash, not movies.

A case regarding a movie was indeed brought to the court. The court decided to make a far more expansive decision. The movie became a footnote, and has effectively no meaningful relationship to the court’s final decision or its impact.

As for getting lost in a discussion about the difference between an ad and a movie, that’s really going down a rabbit hole of deliberately missing the point completely. Some word play is just too divorced from reality to engage with. There are many very short movies, and any rational person would be able to distinguish them from ads to a high degree of accuracy.

Re:The whole thing was a scam by jfengel on Sunday March 01, 2026 @09:23AM (#47206951)
Before CU, "issue ads" were constrained not to mention a candidate. They could talk about the issues, and strongly hint at which candidate did what they wanted, but it couldn't instruct you on who to vote for.

Now all that's required is a thin fig leaf that you're not actually directly coordinating with the actual campaign. And even that much is never enforced. It almost completely undoes campaign limits.

Re:The whole thing was a scam by Nevermark on Saturday February 28, 2026 @07:18PM (#47202132)
Except for clusters of highly correlated private interest groups. PACs. Which completely circumvent that.

Ideally they "shouldn't". But in practice they do.

Because the Supreme Court determined that money is free speech, its use in elections cannot be limited in general.

And where coordination between purportedly independent groups isn't supposed to happen, there is a strong "don't ask, don't tell" code, and a mountain of lawyers ready to scream "political oppression!" on the dime of the rich.

Re:The whole thing was a scam by heavyset_go on Saturday February 28, 2026 @09:16PM (#47202916)
Citizens United assured that will never happen in the US, and everything critics said about it 16 years ago has come into fruition and more.
Re:The whole thing was a scam by mikeyouse on Saturday February 28, 2026 @10:21PM (#47203332)
Roberts will certainly go down as the most consequential Chief Justice in several generations… the havoc he’s wrought is just remarkable.
Re:The whole thing was a scam by tripzilch on Sunday March 01, 2026 @08:40AM (#47206608)
> Simply spending money to get someone you like elected isn’t bribery.

Alright then what should it be called, because it's also not democracy.

Re:The whole thing was a scam by jfengel on Sunday March 01, 2026 @09:27AM (#47206995)
I agree, but coding that up in law turns out to be tricky. Americans are reluctant to pass laws about how you can spend your money, especially if that money is being spent to express your opinion.

We used to have some limits on it, but now it's trivial to bypass those limits because the Supreme Court decided that the First Amendment isn't limited (except for all of those other limits.)

Re:The whole thing was a scam by specialist on Saturday February 28, 2026 @02:39PM (#47199315)
IANAL, IIRC: SCOTUS has very narrowly defined bribery as explicit quid pro quo. And sometimes not even then.
Re:The whole thing was a scam by RajT88 on Saturday February 28, 2026 @03:38PM (#47199968)
You recall correctly.

And they did so, so they could take bribes with no consequences as long as they take them the right way.

Re:The whole thing was a scam by nobody9999 on Sunday March 01, 2026 @07:11PM (#47212269)
>And they did so, so they could take bribes with no consequences as long as they take them the right way.

Yep. cf. Snyder v. United States[0]

[0] https://www.scotusblog.com/2024/06/supreme-court-limits-scop...

Re:The whole thing was a scam by roughly on Saturday February 28, 2026 @04:22PM (#47200401)
Trevor Noah pretty much nailed this in the first Trump admin:

https://x.com/thedailyshow/status/1177221786720559105

Re:The whole thing was a scam by trymas on Sunday March 01, 2026 @03:57AM (#47204974)
Re:The whole thing was a scam by wrqvrwvq on Saturday February 28, 2026 @01:59PM (#47198928)
In what sense is this new, other than a different side cares about the optics?
Re:The whole thing was a scam by mikestew on Saturday February 28, 2026 @02:57PM (#47199518)
OP explained it clearly: “you couldn’t $1, now you can”. It would be helpful if you explained which part did you not understand. Alternatively, that barking sound I hear might be a sea lion.
Re:The whole thing was a scam by ilamont on Saturday February 28, 2026 @03:31PM (#47199914)
> When the rule of law degrades into pay-to-play politics, the inevitable result is a mass exodus of both capital and top-tier talent.

No, it's not inevitable. What you've described is the way a lot of countries work, such as China. China attracts plenty of capital and external talent, including people from other countries such as Taiwan and the United States. You have be all-in on the CCP's rules, though.

Vietnam works in a similar way. Untold billions of FDI in the past 20 years from Japan, the U.S. and China. Talk with top executives there, and you'll frequently find close connections or family ties with leaders in Hanoi.

Re:The whole thing was a scam by iririririr on Sunday March 01, 2026 @09:39AM (#47207123)
china attract zero capital in the sense being discussed here, which would be VC. it attract lots of capex expenses like factories.
Re:The whole thing was a scam by dragonwriter on Saturday February 28, 2026 @12:56PM (#47198249)
> If openly bribing a crony gov to cancel your competitor is now the de-facto standard of making business in the US

It very clearly is, the present AI instance is far from the only recent case.

> I don't see how any rational investor could still see US companies as a secure investment.

They evaluate the propensity and ability to profitably engage in open corruption the same as they evaluate other capacities of the company. “Secure” isn't a binary category, and the risk here is much like any other risk.

> When the rule of law degrades into pay-to-play politics, the inevitable result is a mass exodus of both capital and top-tier talent.

That is the expected result of increasing perceived risk. yes, probably one of those “slowly and then all at once” things.

Re:The whole thing was a scam by coldtea on Saturday February 28, 2026 @03:28PM (#47199877)
>I don't see how any rational investor could still see US companies as a secure investment.

Investors just care for the returns. As long as they can identify and bet on the side doing the bribing, they're fine...

Re:The whole thing was a scam by danielparsons on Saturday February 28, 2026 @04:05PM (#47200222)
Bit melodramatic. The US still has the most talent, most capital, and best property protections of anywhere in the world. Name a country that (1) doesn't have any quid-pro-quo system with the govt, and (2) has pro-growth pro-capitalist policies.
Re:The whole thing was a scam by RichEO on Sunday March 01, 2026 @06:32AM (#47205790)
I wonder if maybe those two things have a causal relationship
Re:The whole thing was a scam by ProllyInfamous on Saturday February 28, 2026 @01:10PM (#47198431)
>I don't see how any rational investor could still see US companies as a secure investment.

2025 was also the first year that the majority of stocks were traded off-market (i.e. hedgie darkpools, no public price discovery).

----

Hope ya'll bought your gold before Monday.

#RemindMe2days [gold@5290USD, this post]

Re:The whole thing was a scam by maxbond on Saturday February 28, 2026 @03:32PM (#47199921)
Trades in dark pools still get published to the consolidated tape; they're still part of price discovery. What's "dark" about them is that you don't see the order book, but people break up large orders into smaller orders to disguise their order size in lit markets too.
Re:The whole thing was a scam by burner_ on Saturday February 28, 2026 @02:07PM (#47199008)
>2025 was also the first year that the majority of stocks were traded off-market (i.e. hedgie darkpools, no public price discovery).

Do you have any sources for that?

Re:The whole thing was a scam by throw-qqqqq on Saturday February 28, 2026 @06:26PM (#47201619)
It sounds quite plausible.

Almost all equity ETFs do their balancing against dark pools or directly with market makers to avoid arbitrage and to ensure enough liquidity.

Since index ETFs have more AUM than the underlying instruments (the “ETF tail wagging the dog”), this sounds like a natural evolution.

There is nothing nefarious about this, it’s just how the markets work.

Re:The whole thing was a scam by ProllyInfamous on Monday March 02, 2026 @06:48AM (#47216780)
>nothing nefarious ... it’s just how the markets work.

first_time.meme | Gold "up" 3.12% pre-Monday trading ($5411) #USDeflation #ThisGuyGetsIt

Re:The whole thing was a scam by CamperBob2 on Saturday February 28, 2026 @01:45PM (#47198801)
the inevitable result is a mass exodus of both capital and top-tier talent

To where?

Re:The whole thing was a scam by ben_w on Saturday February 28, 2026 @01:51PM (#47198845)
Anywhere offering opportunity.

I'm in Europe, I'd like to see it come here. The news I see suggests China's ahead of us in this race, but I don't know if that's for all talent, or if it was just an artefact of a lot of Chinese people in the US on work visas returning home.

Or indeed whether the news about China doing well here was real or hallucinated by an LLM.

Re:The whole thing was a scam by jakeydus on Saturday February 28, 2026 @01:55PM (#47198887)
If engineers in the US (i.e. me) want to find work in Europe, what can we do? I know that’s a googleable question but honestly I can’t help but think that there cannot be any European country that would want me and my family.

Immigration is hard.

Re:The whole thing was a scam by ben_w on Saturday February 28, 2026 @02:10PM (#47199029)
It is hard.

I moved to Germany in 2018, and only just this month reached B1 level in the language; and that was a pre-Brexit move so I don't need to care about visa.

The EU has a "blue card" scheme modeled on US green card: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Card_(European_Union)

If language is your biggest barrier, pick a country whose language you already speak. As this clearly includes English, Ireland if you want specifically EU, and UK if you just want the continent (mainly London, but I spent a long time in Cambridge tech sector).

Germany may still be an option even without being a native speaker (depending on your skills), but with all the difficulty everyone has today with AI messing with job hunting, get the contract before considering a move.

Re:The whole thing was a scam by fernly on Saturday February 28, 2026 @02:15PM (#47199091)
Not that hard if you are in young to middle years and have any job experience. I asked Perplexity "If an American citizen, a trained engineer with some experience, desired to work abroad in the EU or an English-first nation, what are some good websites to check?"

I suggest you do the same -- the reply lists a dozen promising sites.

https://www.perplexity.ai/search/if-an-american-citizen-a-tr...

Re:The whole thing was a scam by yencabulator on Saturday February 28, 2026 @05:41PM (#47201139)
Generally immigrating to Europe is fairly easy if you have an employment offer. And the rest of the family would apply as family members of a resident. With a work offer, there's typically no language requirements (apart from what the work requires).

Without a job offer, yeah not gonna happen easily unless you e.g. show an ancestral connection to the specific country.

Re:The whole thing was a scam by graemep on Sunday March 01, 2026 @08:15AM (#47206429)
The UK has two schemes for skilled worker visas. It depends on the exact occupation and salary offered so you need to get a job.
Re:The whole thing was a scam by sehansen on Tuesday March 03, 2026 @07:42AM (#47231479)
Immigrating to Denmark is somewhat easy if you're an engineer. You have a set of skills that there is a recognized shortage of[0] and you'll be making more than the $70000 that qualifies you to take part in the fast-track scheme.[1] Quite a lot of Danish companies have employees from other EU countries and already use English as their working language.

0: Various kinds of engineers are on the so-called Positive List, see sections 21 & 25 on this page: https://nyidanmark.dk/en-GB/You-want-to-apply/Work/Positive-...

1: The supplementary pay limit track requires an annual salary of DKK 446000 (~$70000). This track could close if unemployment rises sharply, but it has been open for 6 out of the last 7 years: https://nyidanmark.dk/en-GB/You-want-to-apply/Work/Fast-trac...

Re:The whole thing was a scam by spopejoy on Saturday February 28, 2026 @11:05PM (#47203580)
Don't get too complacent, the far right is on the rise in EU, and corruption follows.
Re:The whole thing was a scam by saidnooneever on Sunday March 01, 2026 @03:55AM (#47204962)
corruption follows :') ... corruption is already there. just the color of the banner is changing. dont be naive.
Re:The whole thing was a scam by ben_w on Sunday March 01, 2026 @04:02AM (#47205002)
EU isn't perfect, even the best nations within it are not perfect (though still better than the US is or was), but only the worst two EU nations seem to be politically corrupt to the point of "danger" levels.

There's plenty of room to fall if people are complacent.

General corruption: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index

Re:The whole thing was a scam by bostik on Sunday March 01, 2026 @10:32AM (#47207607)
As a person from a country constantly near the top of that list, I have been saying this for more than two decades: holding the #1 spot in CPI tells nothing how well things are going for a country; it merely highlights how bad things are even for the runner-up.
Re:The whole thing was a scam by spopejoy on Monday March 02, 2026 @09:10AM (#47218163)
Naive huh? Right wing/fascist corruption is a serious level-up of corruption. If you think your semi-socialist EU government is corrupt now, just wait until AFD or your local fascist+populist equivalent gets in.

Us US-ians are no longer naive. US was certainly corrupt before, and muckrakers had an uphill battle showing how e.g. Democratic admins were subservient to the oligarchy. But Trump has certainly taken this to a new level, and while it's a little bit sanity-enhancing to finally have middle-of-the-road friends see how bad things are for once, the brazen-ness of it all is nothing to celebrate.

What's more, it's precisely what happened with Putin, Orban, Berlusconi, Modi, Bukele &c &c &c. The right wing seeks to "finish the job" of private capture of public interests, and the populist side of it adds the mafioso "all in the family" touch where corporations explicitly kiss the ring.

Re:The whole thing was a scam by graemep on Sunday March 01, 2026 @08:08AM (#47206368)
I am not convinced. Lots of people in Europe were connected to Epstein's network and engaged in corrupt practices - it is allegations of these that lead to the two high profile arrests in the UK. Norway has just charged a former Prime Minster (also a former Secretary General of the Council of Europe) with corruption.

The US is probably more corrupt that the most developed European countries, but they have also been becoming more corrupt.

Re:The whole thing was a scam by iririririr on Sunday March 01, 2026 @09:46AM (#47207193)
wow. you're comparing EU: crimes happened, were exposed, people suffered consequences, with USA: no criminal suffered anything, president joining on a genocide for real state deals bribe, etc.

kinda a stretch, don't you think?

Re:The whole thing was a scam by graemep on Monday March 02, 2026 @09:48AM (#47218643)
How many people have suffered consequences anyway? Epstein ran a large sex abuse network and and even larger corruption network. How many people have been sentenced so far? How many are even being investigated?

While most of the network in in the US, there are very many highly placed people in Europe who will have been involved, and so far only a few have suffered. One Norwegian charged, two in the UK under investigation arrested and released.

> wow. you're comparing EU

Apart from the investigation in France, have guilty parties in any EU countries been charged, convicted, or are even facing invetigation?

Re:The whole thing was a scam by sehansen on Tuesday March 03, 2026 @08:07AM (#47231732)
Next to no-one has been charged since Epstein was arrested by the US and they memory-holed his files until a few months ago. There weren't anything to base an investigation on until very recently.
Re:The whole thing was a scam by iririririr on Saturday March 07, 2026 @11:34AM (#47289096)
are you really not following uk Prince, Netherlands prime minister, france probes, etc etc?
Re:The whole thing was a scam by AndroTux on Saturday February 28, 2026 @01:57PM (#47198906)
Europe is nice this time of year
Re:The whole thing was a scam by rssoconnor on Saturday February 28, 2026 @07:57PM (#47202416)
Re:The whole thing was a scam by foogazi on Saturday February 28, 2026 @01:32PM (#47198654)
> I don't see how any rational investor could still see US companies as a secure investment.

It’s the best investment - just bribe your way to contracts

Re:The whole thing was a scam by bootsmann on Saturday February 28, 2026 @05:18PM (#47200898)
This has already happened, its a key reason why the dollar is down 15% since the new admin took power.
Re:The whole thing was a scam by amarant on Saturday February 28, 2026 @05:30PM (#47201002)
The logical conclusion to your analysis is that Musks companies must be a great investment. Musk already owns most of the government after all. And the US is still among the largest economies in the world.
Re:The whole thing was a scam by Aeolun on Sunday March 01, 2026 @02:20AM (#47204471)
> I don't see how any rational investor could still see US companies as a secure investment

I the problem is that from the companies’s side you just have a whole country to exploit, so I’m fairly certain the investments still work.

Re:The whole thing was a scam by direwolf20 on Sunday March 01, 2026 @03:46AM (#47204917)
That means bribing the government is a very secure and profitable investment to invest in.
Re:The whole thing was a scam by cermicelli on Sunday March 01, 2026 @06:33AM (#47205800)
Well you think corruption is bad for the rich investors? I hope I can find that kind of optimism and live in a more corrupt world.

Tldr; Rich people can bribe more, hence Rich people can be more rich+er..

I think a lot of poor tech multi-millionaires hate this in US but all rich billionaires must be loving it...

Re:The whole thing was a scam by therobots927 on Sunday March 01, 2026 @10:09AM (#47207402)
The rational investors have been moving their money outside the US for approximately 15 months. Compare the chart of VEA to VTI.
Re:The whole thing was a scam by mountainriver on Sunday March 01, 2026 @06:27PM (#47211931)
This has pretty much always been happening, it’s more brazen under Trump