That depends on what "normal" is, and I don't think you or I get to define it.
I mostly hang out in mixed-gender groups, but I absolutely have seen the difference in vibe others in this thread have noted, when I'm hanging out with a group of just other men. Especially when compared to a mixed group that has both single men and single women.
> men are putting these strange rules and requirements on their own selves
I wouldn't call it a "rule" so much as a "phenomenon". It just seems to kinda happen. Not always, and not in every mixed-gender group, but it does happen. I don't think anyone is making up or following any kind of "rules", and I can't control group dynamics or behavior on my own.
> I don't think that's a society issue. I think that's a you issue.
I think this discussion would be more productive without thinly-veiled ad hominem attacks.
It's not ad hominem because you feel attacked. Ad hominem would be calling you a dickhead and then not engaging at all with the topic of the discussion, and I didn't do that. My point is that any man's inability to socialize with men in the presence of women in such a way that isn't offensive to them is... weird? Very weird. And is probably a solid contributing factor to the loneliness epidemic which the thread is about.
> That depends on what "normal" is, and I don't think you or I get to define it.
It's wild that people keep going to this line of argument despite the fact that the purpose of these "men's only" socialization spaces is ostensibly so men can be "normal" with one another, which no one has yet defined either, but props to you, you've at least tried.
> I mostly hang out in mixed-gender groups, but I absolutely have seen the difference in vibe others in this thread have noted, when I'm hanging out with a group of just other men. Especially when compared to a mixed group that has both single men and single women.
And it seems to be what you're pointing at is what I would call peacocking. Men see pretty women they want to date (or just bang) and they turn into ogres, trying to one up and bully one another to demonstrate social status. The problem is the vast majority of women think this is stupid as fuck, and men who are not seeking such relations at that time for whichever reason you might put it down for also find it cringe and annoying. Because it is.
And I suspect that same reason is why most men are dancing around discussing it in any great detail, because I too have witnessed it, but if I came into this thread saying "yeah a lot of men become insufferable morons in the presence of pretty girls and it's cringe as shit," I've gotten even more down-votes than I already have. And, more to the point, I don't think the solution to that is men's only spaces. I think the solution to that is men need to stop having it signaled to them that behaving in this way is acceptable. We are not animals in nature, we are social, intelligent beings capable of empathy.
Who are you to speak for “the vast majority of women”?
This is the only thing you've said that I agree with
> If you lose the ability to be a normal person
What is normal for a group of men is different than what is normal for the same group of men when a woman is present
It's not rocket science here.
And why gender, but not race?
* Single men don't feel compelled to be horndogs and show off and compete.
* Married men are tired of always doing everything with their wives.
* Possible gay interest?
* Something about model trains, apparently women ruin model trains?
This is impossible in spaces where women are also present.
This says a lot about that person, that they can't imagine men socializing any other way. I think they're making excuses for their own bad behavior.
However, and this may shock you, I also love hanging out in non mixed groups. And they are not the same.
A mixed group works different socially than a male only group.
That's not because the men are socially incompetent. It's because it's a fundamentally different social situation. Even when everyone is an elite socializer.
I'm afraid you may be the one who needs to learn more about socializing.
Like I'm being a bit of a contrarian dick here but at the same time, men are putting these strange rules and requirements on their own selves. If you lose the ability to be a normal person whenever, and I can't stress this enough, one in two living humans is present: I don't think that's a society issue. I think that's a you issue.