It's not ad hominem because you feel attacked. Ad hominem would be calling you a dickhead and then not engaging at all with the topic of the discussion, and I didn't do that. My point is that any man's inability to socialize with men in the presence of women in such a way that isn't offensive to them is... weird? Very weird. And is probably a solid contributing factor to the loneliness epidemic which the thread is about.
> That depends on what "normal" is, and I don't think you or I get to define it.
It's wild that people keep going to this line of argument despite the fact that the purpose of these "men's only" socialization spaces is ostensibly so men can be "normal" with one another, which no one has yet defined either, but props to you, you've at least tried.
> I mostly hang out in mixed-gender groups, but I absolutely have seen the difference in vibe others in this thread have noted, when I'm hanging out with a group of just other men. Especially when compared to a mixed group that has both single men and single women.
And it seems to be what you're pointing at is what I would call peacocking. Men see pretty women they want to date (or just bang) and they turn into ogres, trying to one up and bully one another to demonstrate social status. The problem is the vast majority of women think this is stupid as fuck, and men who are not seeking such relations at that time for whichever reason you might put it down for also find it cringe and annoying. Because it is.
And I suspect that same reason is why most men are dancing around discussing it in any great detail, because I too have witnessed it, but if I came into this thread saying "yeah a lot of men become insufferable morons in the presence of pretty girls and it's cringe as shit," I've gotten even more down-votes than I already have. And, more to the point, I don't think the solution to that is men's only spaces. I think the solution to that is men need to stop having it signaled to them that behaving in this way is acceptable. We are not animals in nature, we are social, intelligent beings capable of empathy.
Who are you to speak for “the vast majority of women”?
That depends on what "normal" is, and I don't think you or I get to define it.
I mostly hang out in mixed-gender groups, but I absolutely have seen the difference in vibe others in this thread have noted, when I'm hanging out with a group of just other men. Especially when compared to a mixed group that has both single men and single women.
> men are putting these strange rules and requirements on their own selves
I wouldn't call it a "rule" so much as a "phenomenon". It just seems to kinda happen. Not always, and not in every mixed-gender group, but it does happen. I don't think anyone is making up or following any kind of "rules", and I can't control group dynamics or behavior on my own.
> I don't think that's a society issue. I think that's a you issue.
I think this discussion would be more productive without thinly-veiled ad hominem attacks.