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Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by sitkack on Thursday March 13, 2025 @03:58PM (#43356710)
Also textbook Fascism.

Trump should have a Most Favored Corporate status, each corporation in a vertical can compete for favor and the one that does gets to be "teacher's pet" when it comes to exemptions, contracts, trade deals, priority in resource right access, etc.

Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by yadaeno on Thursday March 13, 2025 @04:12PM (#43356829)
Can you explain why this is associated with fascism specifically, and not any other form of government which has high levels of oligarchical corruption (like North Korea, Soviet Russia, etc).

I am not saying you’re wrong, but please educate me why is this form of corruption/cronyism is unique to fascism?

Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by tdeck on Thursday March 13, 2025 @04:17PM (#43356868)
It might be basic, but I found the Wikipedia article to be a good place to start:

> An important aspect of fascist economies was economic dirigism,[35] meaning an economy where the government often subsidizes favorable companies and exerts strong directive influence over investment, as opposed to having a merely regulatory role. In general, fascist economies were based on private property and private initiative, but these were contingent upon service to the state.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics_of_fascism

Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by MaxPock on Thursday March 13, 2025 @05:48PM (#43357547)
Sounds like South Korea and her Chaebols
Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by Retric on Thursday March 13, 2025 @06:31PM (#43357860)
Yea fascism, communism, etc aren’t abstract ideals in the real world. Instead they are self reinforcing directions along a multidimensional political spectrum.

The scary thing with fascism is just how quickly it can snowball because people at the top of so many powerful structures in society benefit. US Presidents get a positive spin by giving more access to organizations that support them. Those kinds of quiet back room deals benefit the people making them, but not everyone outside the room.

Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by somenameforme on Thursday March 13, 2025 @11:59PM (#43359467)
That's not fascism, that is the dysfunctional status quo in literally every single country in the world. Why do you think companies and billionaires dump what amounts to billions of dollars on candidates? Often times it's not even this candidate or that, but both!

They then get access, get special treatment, and come out singing the praises of [errr.. what's his name again?]

Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by Retric on Friday March 14, 2025 @02:23AM (#43360089)
It’s not Fascism on its own, but it’s representative of the forces that push society to Fascism.

Start looking and you’ll find powerful forces shaping history. Sacking a city is extremely profitable throughout antiquity, which then pushes cities to have defensive capabilities which then…

In the Bronze Age trade was critical as having Copper ore alone wasn’t nearly as useful as having copper and access to tin. Iron however is found basically everywhere as where trees.

Such forces don’t guarantee outcomes, but they have massive influence.

Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by the_optimist on Thursday March 13, 2025 @04:39PM (#43357025)
It’s a poor definition. The same “subsidization and directive influence” applies to all of Krugman’s Nobel-wining domestic champion, emerging market development leaders, in virtually all ‘successful’ economies. It also applies in the context of badly run, failed and failing economies. Safe to say this factor is only somewhat correlated. Broad assertions are going to be factually wrong.
Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by matthewdgreen on Thursday March 13, 2025 @05:00PM (#43357189)
The key element here is that the power exchange in this case goes both ways. The corporations do favors for the administration (sometimes outright corrupt payments and sometimes useful favors, like promoting certain kinds of content in the media, or firing employees who speak up.) And in exchange the companies get regulatory favors. While all economic distortions can be problematic — national champion companies probably have tradeoffs - this is a form of distortion that hurts citizens both by distorting the market, and also by distorting the democratic environment by which citizens might correct the problems.
Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by tdeck on Thursday March 13, 2025 @05:01PM (#43357202)
That's because it's not a definition, it's simply a summary of a description of one characteristic.
Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by stale2002 on Thursday March 13, 2025 @08:40PM (#43358607)
So then you agree that the original post that called this "text book fascism" was wrong, as this is just one very vague, and only slightly correlated property.

This can be bad without invoking godwin's law.

Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by munificent on Thursday March 13, 2025 @06:01PM (#43357662)
All snakes have scales, so there is a 100% correlation between being a snake and having scales.

That does not imply that fish are snakes. Nor does the presence of scaled fish invalidate the observation that having scales is a defining attribute of snakes (it's just not a sufficient attribute to define snakes).

Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by TylerE on Thursday March 13, 2025 @07:33PM (#43358298)
That’s not accurate either. Scaleless snakes, thigh a rare mutation, do exist as genetic mutants.

https://www.morphmarket.com/morphpedia/corn-snakes/scaleless...

Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by oasisaimlessly on Friday March 14, 2025 @04:43AM (#43360678)
> there is a 100% correlation between being a snake and having scales.

That's a strange definition of "correlation" that you're using.

Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by cousin_it on Friday March 14, 2025 @07:21AM (#43361517)
You wrote some smart stuff back in the day, so this comment is puzzling. If all snakes have scales, that doesn't mean the correlation is 100%.

Imagine there are three equally sized groups of animals: scaly snakes, scaly fish, and scaleless fish. So we have three data points (1,1) (0,1) (0,0) with probability 1/3 each. Some calculations later, the correlation between snake and scaly is 1/2.

Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by the_optimist on Saturday March 15, 2025 @12:42AM (#43370044)
You’re looking for the logical argument here, not the statistical one. You sampled from snakes and said there is a 100% correlation with being a snake (notwithstanding the counterarg in an adjacent comment about scale-free snakes).

I am noting that the logical argument does not hold in the provided definition. If “some” attributes hold in a definition, you are expanding the definitional set, not reducing it, and thus creating a low-res definition. That is why I said: ‘this is a poor definition.’

Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by somenameforme on Thursday March 13, 2025 @11:46PM (#43359413)
It's rather amusing reading the link on dirigisme given the context of its alleged implication. [1] A word which I, and suspect most, have never heard before.

---

The term emerged in the post-World War II era to describe the economic policies of France which included substantial state-directed investment, the use of indicative economic planning to supplement the market mechanism and the establishment of state enterprises in strategic domestic sectors. It coincided with both the period of substantial economic and demographic growth, known as the Trente Glorieuses which followed the war, and the slowdown beginning with the 1973 oil crisis.

The term has subsequently been used to classify other economies that pursued similar policies, such as Canada, Japan, the East Asian tiger economies of Hong Kong, Singapore, South Korea and Taiwan; and more recently the economy of the People's Republic of China (PRC) after its economic reforms,[2] Malaysia, Indonesia[3][4] and India before the opening of its economy in 1991.[5][6][7]

---

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirigisme

Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by deanishe on Saturday March 15, 2025 @01:57AM (#43370333)
> A word which I, and suspect most, have never heard before.

It's a pretty normal word in British English, tbh.

Maybe it's because we do French at school.

Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by rightbyte on Friday March 14, 2025 @03:21AM (#43360325)
Would describe e.g. social democracy too though. And in practice most govs work like this.
Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by desdenova on Friday March 14, 2025 @06:15AM (#43361127)
Social democracy has historically been a precursor to fascism, so it makes sense.
Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by api on Friday March 14, 2025 @07:12AM (#43361455)
Socialism and communism are state ownership. Fascism tends toward private ownership and state control. This is actually easier and better for the state. It gets all the benefit and none of the responsibility and can throw business leaders under the bus.

All real world countries have some of this, but in fascism it’s really overt and dialed up and for the private sector participation is not optional. If you don’t toe the line you are ruined or worse. If you do play along you can get very very rich, but only if you remember who is in charge.

“Public private partnership” style ventures are kind of fascism lite, and they always worried me for that reason. It’s not an open bid but a more explicit relationship. If you look back at Musk’s career in particular there are ominous signs of where this was going.

Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by dragonwriter on Thursday March 13, 2025 @04:20PM (#43356884)
The private industry side of fascist corporatism is very similar to all kinds of systematic state industry cronyism, particularly in other authoritarian systems that aren't precisely fascist (and named systems of government are just idealized points on the multidimensional continuum on which actual governments are distributed, anyway), what distinguishes fascism particularly is the combination of its form of corporatism with xenophobia, militaristic nationalism, etc., not the form of corporatism alone.
Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by Ray20 on Friday March 14, 2025 @03:53AM (#43360454)
I think it is associated with fascism, just from the other party.

This is pretty common fascist practice that is used all over Europe and in any left-leaning countries, when with regulations governments make doing business on large scale impossible, and then give largest players exemptions, subsidies and so on. Governments gain enormous leverage to ensure corporate loyalty, silence dissenters and combat opposition, while the biggest players secure their place at the top and gain protection from competitors.

So the plan was push regulations and then dominate over the competitors with exemptions from those regulations. But fascists loose the election, regulations threaten to start working in a non-discriminatory manner, and this will simply hinder business.

Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by FirmwareBurner on Friday March 14, 2025 @04:23AM (#43360596)
>and then give largest players exemptions, subsidies and so on.

You mean like Germany has done?

Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by TylerE on Thursday March 13, 2025 @05:32PM (#43357427)
Oh, I’m sure he does. He’s just such an utter villain he doesn’t even stay bought. I wrap for what my country has become.
Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by fuzztester on Thursday March 13, 2025 @11:46PM (#43359414)
Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by lazyeye on Friday March 14, 2025 @12:41AM (#43359629)
Groan....
Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by ForTheKidz on Friday March 14, 2025 @01:50AM (#43359959)
People who don't learn history will be condemned to repeat it. Granted this isn't necessary to be skeptical of american business....
Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by Aeolun on Friday March 14, 2025 @01:56AM (#43359977)
Isn’t this the opposite? Trump has learned from history exactly so that he can repeat it?

Or his lackeys have anyway. I’m unwilling to believe the man has ever read a book.

Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by ForTheKidz on Friday March 14, 2025 @10:06AM (#43362777)
Trump also isn't giving "nothing ever happens" vibes.
Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by Animats on Friday March 14, 2025 @01:55AM (#43359973)
That's in progress. It's called the MAGA Parallel Economy.[1]

Donald Trump, Jr. is in charge. Vivek Ramaswamy and Peter Thiel are involved. Azoria ETF and 1789 Capital are funds designed to fund MAGA-friendly companies.

But this may be a sideshow. The main show is US CEOs sucking up to Trump, as happened at the inauguration. That parallels something Putin did in 2020. Putin called in the top two dozen oligarchs, and told them "Stay out of politics and your wealth won’t be touched." "Loyalty is what Putin values above all else.” Three of the oligarchs didn't do that. Berezovsky was forced out of Russia. Gusinsky was arrested, and later fled the country. Khodorkovsky, regarded as Russia’s richest man at the time (Yukos Oil), was arrested in 2003 and spent ten years in jail. He got out in 2013 and left for the UK. Interestingly, he was seen at Trump's inauguration.

[1] https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2025/03/13/maga-influ...

[2] https://apnews.com/article/russia-putin-oligarchs-rich-ukrai...

Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by darkwater on Friday March 14, 2025 @05:03AM (#43360771)
> That parallels something Putin did in 2020. Putin called in the top two dozen oligarchs, and told them "Stay out of politics and your wealth won’t be touched.

> Khodorkovsky [...] was arrested in 2003

Something doesn't square here

Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by silvaring on Friday March 14, 2025 @05:29AM (#43360925)
Its a typo, the article says it happened in the summer of 2000.
Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by Animats on Friday March 14, 2025 @01:42PM (#43365029)
Right re 2000.
Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by richrichardsson on Friday March 14, 2025 @05:29AM (#43360926)
Could just be a muscle-memory typo. Much more likely to be typing 2020 these days than 2002.
Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by shakna on Friday March 14, 2025 @05:25AM (#43360904)
Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by api on Friday March 14, 2025 @07:32AM (#43361603)
Why are these idiots trying to ape Russia, a dumpster fire, to make America great again?

If there’s anyone to copy it’s China in industry and maybe elements of Western Europe and Japan in some civic areas.

Russia is worse on every metric, even the ones conservatives claim to care about: lower birth rate, high divorce rate, much higher abortion rate, higher domestic violence rate, more drug use, more alcoholism, and much less church attendance.

I. Do. Not. Get. The Russia fetish.

Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by abenga on Friday March 14, 2025 @09:25AM (#43362433)
> I. Do. Not. Get. The Russia fetish.

It's not a Russia fetish. It's a Strongman fetish.

Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by NeutralCrane on Friday March 14, 2025 @09:28AM (#43362461)
Because they aren’t interested in “making America great again”, that’s the marketing line used to sell it to American voters. They are solely interested in looting the nation for personal gain.
Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by Ray20 on Friday March 14, 2025 @12:40PM (#43364353)
You have a poor understanding of what is happening in Russia. There are many more parallels between the Putin regime and the Democrats than the Republicans.

>Russia is worse on every metric, even the ones conservatives claim to care about: lower birth rate, high divorce rate, much higher abortion rate, higher domestic violence rate, more drug use, more alcoholism, and much less church attendance.

Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by jdiez17 on Friday March 14, 2025 @02:07AM (#43360023)
What do you think Melon Tusk is doing, apart from letting out his inner (and outer) (and literal) child on the world stage?
Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by NicoJuicy on Friday March 14, 2025 @02:26AM (#43360102)
Selling the government/land/public companies to the highest bidder, which in many cases would be him too
Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by blitzar on Friday March 14, 2025 @04:41AM (#43360670)
Lots of Ketamine.
Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by cynicalsecurity on Friday March 14, 2025 @07:27AM (#43361566)
Elon Musk is a text book definition of an oligarch, combining tremendous wealth, control over major technological industries and political power.
Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by enriquec on Friday March 14, 2025 @10:59AM (#43363258)
so edgy
Re:OpenAI Asks White House for Relief from State AI Rules by yk on Friday March 14, 2025 @10:01AM (#43362732)
Perhaps that would be a use for the $TRUMP coin, whoever owns most gets to favorite corporation.