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Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by kelseydh on Friday February 28, 2025 @03:17PM (#43209894)
Public humiliation of an ally in distress.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by lostlogin on Friday February 28, 2025 @03:38PM (#43210276)
And an ally that was stripped of nuclear weapons with security guarantees made at that time including by the US.

https://www.npr.org/2022/02/21/1082124528/ukraine-russia-put...

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by simpaticoder on Friday February 28, 2025 @04:25PM (#43211326)
I don't normally comment on politics, but Trump and Vance's behavior was over the line. And your comment is salient. We can look forward to a period of nuclear proliferation among our allies since they cannot depend on the USA anymore. We are already seeing Germany seek out nukes; Canada will soon follow if it values its sovereignity. The fact that anyone with eyes could see this coming if Trump was elected again is of small comfort - they say that those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it, but those who know history are doomed to watch others repeat it. I have never been ashamed to be an American citizen until today. Zelenskyy is a courageous, heroic leader resisting a much more powerful, authoritarian agressor who hungers for the downfall of the West and all democratic societies. Z could have left Ukraine in the early days of the invasion but chose to stay and fight. Meanwhile Trump's "bone spurs" exempted him from service in Vietnam, and he disparages war heroes like McCain before and after his death. Lindsay Graham says "I've never been more proud of the President" and it's like walking out of Star Wars: A New Hope hearing half of the audience excited to see such a compelling new hero, Darth Vader. Insanity.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by afavour on Friday February 28, 2025 @03:21PM (#43209980)
Not an ally any more. The US is now aligned with Russia against Europe. My brain struggles to truly accept that fact but my eyes see what are in front of them.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by lostlogin on Friday February 28, 2025 @03:39PM (#43210307)
It’s baffling. That’s switch suits some people, but how many, hundreds?

The connection with Europe would appear to benefit millions of Americans.

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by afavour on Friday February 28, 2025 @03:50PM (#43210513)
Sadly it's the nature of (EDIT: the US system of) democracy, you don't get to pick and choose which parts of a candidate's agenda get enacted. Voted for Trump because of inflation, found the country in an alliance with Putin.

Very broadly I think the US has done a poor job explaining just how beneficial America's position in the world is to America itself. You see it reflected in the USAID stuff too. Soft power pays dividends in ways that aren't immediately apparent so when it's gone people just don't care all that much. It'll be interesting to see where this all lands 20 or so years from now and how the US public feels about it then.

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by umanwizard on Friday February 28, 2025 @04:00PM (#43210741)
This isn’t in the nature of democracy, it’s in the nature of winner-take-all FPTP presidential systems specifically.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by afavour on Friday February 28, 2025 @04:10PM (#43210967)
Fair, I've updated my post. I'd argue it's not just FPTP presidential systems, though. Even in proportional representation you still only get one vote so you pick the candidate that's the best fit for you, you still don't get to pick and choose which parts of their agenda get enacted.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by umanwizard on Friday February 28, 2025 @04:25PM (#43211348)
Yes, but different people will care more or less about different things and thus vote for different parties which all have to work together to form coalitions, which in theory then have to reflect a negotiated compromise among the different things that different people care about.

It’s not perfectly efficient, and it can suffer from the problem you’re describing, but far less severely than the US system does.

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by kla-s on Friday February 28, 2025 @06:19PM (#43213137)
Well then thats „Volksabstimmungen“ as Switzerland has it for you.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by kelseydh on Friday February 28, 2025 @04:50PM (#43211874)
By definition, it is impossible for a single winner contest like the Presidency to be proportionally elected. Proportionality matters for multi-member bodies like legislatures or parliaments. I.e. 20% of the vote nets 20% of the seats. Single winner contests can only represent at best, half or more of the population when working well.

Winner take all (one winner): FPTP, single member district ranked ballots

Proportional (multiple winners): Party lists, MMP, multi-member district ranked ballots (STV)

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by kelnos on Friday February 28, 2025 @04:15PM (#43211085)
I've been thinking about this a lot lately, and I wish it was easier to explain this sort of thing to people. Most MAGA people look at any taxpayer money spent abroad, for any purpose, as a waste, when that money could be spent on US citizens locally.

Diplomacy and soft power is a complex, nuanced concept that can't be explained easily.

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by outside1234 on Friday February 28, 2025 @04:32PM (#43211505)
This is why it matters that the president just EXECUTES policy but does not decide the WHAT or HOW MUCH it or decide if it is JUST.

This brings a wider perspective, which is why what Elon is doing is so scary because it takes out that wider perspective

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by rangestransform on Friday February 28, 2025 @06:15PM (#43213080)
I don't think the US voting public is ready to see geopolitics from the realpolitik lens instead of the lens of idealism that has been instilled on them from elementary school onwards. Every major US geopolitical intervention has been sold to the voters through ideals like spreading democracy. It'll take a complete rethink of civics education before USians are actually ready to decide the government of the hegemon, both to claim what is theirs by might and to ensure that it's distributed fairly amongst them. I'm also not confident that I want the next generation to become realpolitik bastards before they graduate high school.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by soraminazuki on Friday February 28, 2025 @06:18PM (#43213114)
He was obviously not going to do anything about inflation despite what he said during his rallies. Actions speak more than words, especially when those words are inconsistent ramblings. We all saw what he did in his first term, and not a single policy decision was made out of concern for ordinary people. It's always about going after people or enriching the super-rich even further.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by formerly_proven on Friday February 28, 2025 @03:29PM (#43210106)
Matches reports that Reuters and AP were excluded from the meeting, while a TASS reporter was “accidentally” present in the Oval Office.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by khazhoux on Friday February 28, 2025 @03:44PM (#43210403)
Ronald Reagan was obviously a RINO.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by sitkack on Friday February 28, 2025 @03:59PM (#43210720)
Ronald Reagan is a now a Democrat.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by BobbyTables2 on Friday February 28, 2025 @11:42PM (#43215992)
I’m also bewildered.

For quite a long time (decades) Soviet Union/Russia was vilified like no other…

Heck, even the general public knew that Russia was the only country that could wipe us off the map with their nukes…

Current leaders grew up and were in the prime of their life during those times…

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by adfm on Friday February 28, 2025 @03:44PM (#43210392)
Ask yourself how many people will die as a result of this show of incompetence.

If you're interested in how a democracy should handle itself in such a situation, take a look at Justin Trudeau's recent speech pledging support for Ukraine.

Don't be a sucker. [^1]

[^1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGAqYNFQdZ4

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by rayiner on Friday February 28, 2025 @03:39PM (#43210305)
What does “ally” mean?
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by redmajor12 on Friday February 28, 2025 @04:22PM (#43211262)
Ukraine is not a formal ally of the United States.
[dead]
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by jjulius on Friday February 28, 2025 @05:26PM (#43212487)
@dang can we do something about this spam?