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Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by stevage on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @06:26PM (#43189478)
Wild. Of all the things that do not seem to be under threat and desperately needing a newspaper to stand up and defend them: free markets in America.
Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by sixo on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @06:30PM (#43189506)
well, all these tariffs are a major regression away from free markets. Although somehow I doubt this is what Bezos has in mind.
Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by rainsford on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @09:11PM (#43190549)
Yeah there is an obvious immediate test here for whether Bezos is sincere about this new direction. An opinion section aggressively advocating for free trade should be able to find plenty of reasons to criticize the new administration. I'm pretty skeptical that's what will happen though.
Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by droopyEyelids on Thursday February 27, 2025 @12:04AM (#43191525)
The actual original meaning (and the one that still makes sense) of free markets was “free from economic rent” as sections of the economy were monopolies granted by the king.

Those free markets really did benefit the people and the country. And they were compatible with taxes and tariffs.

Bezos is using the corrupted modern meaning, “free to charge economic rent” because he wants amazon to capture a greater share of global economic activity

Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by jaredklewis on Thursday February 27, 2025 @02:35AM (#43192177)
I agree with you about the term's original usage, but I don't think that is the modern meaning.

Usage varies, but most commonly "free market" refers to an economy that is not centrally planned. All economies have at least some level of central planning, as well as at least some degree of economic freedom for participants, so the term is somewhat like the usage of "right" and "left" in politics, where it just indicates which side of a center line someone or something falls. Any market on the free-er side of the "center" can be described as a "free market."

So it has basically just become an antonym of socialism. I don't think it necessarily implies anything about a tacit approval of rent seeking in the economy.

Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by droopyEyelids on Thursday February 27, 2025 @11:03AM (#43195609)
I take your point, and that (i think you would agree) loose anti-socialism definition you explained is a big part of it. But i think the subtext in modern usage is also “the right to operate a private toll on the economy” especially when its Bezos advocating it.
Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by frugalmail on Thursday February 27, 2025 @01:15AM (#43191824)
You think the current editor resigned because Bezos was asking them to criticize tariffs? Like every other major publication, and WPo has done before?

He's trying to get them to stop promoting socialism/statism.

Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by fsckboy on Thursday February 27, 2025 @01:59AM (#43192008)
according to what Trump says (i have not researched it myself) the US in the recent past has paid tariffs many times over what it has charged in tariffs, and he wants to equalize the playing field. So yes, imposing tariffs is a regression away from free markets, but if what he says about foreign tariffs is true, it already wasn't a free market for trade.
Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by drdeca on Thursday February 27, 2025 @03:54AM (#43192522)
Tariffs are paid by the people buying and selling, to the state imposing the tariff.
Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by fsckboy on Thursday February 27, 2025 @01:57PM (#43197290)
a falling tide lowers all boats
Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by throw0101c on Thursday February 27, 2025 @06:55AM (#43193508)
> So yes, imposing tariffs is a regression away from free markets, but if what he says about foreign tariffs is true, it already wasn't a free market for trade.

Except that in Trump 1.0, he signed a free trade deal with MX and CA and said:

> The USMCA is the largest, most significant, modern, and balanced trade agreement in history.

* https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/briefings-statements/pr...

But now it's a bad deal:

* https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-usmca-nafta-tariffs-can...

and wants to impose 25% tariffs on MX and CA—in violation of the free trade deal that he signed.

Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by bitshiftfaced on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @08:03PM (#43190202)
There is a set of values that are common among news organizations. If you don't share a value, then of course you wouldn't think it's important enough for a newspaper to defend. That doesn't mean it's not important to those who do share the value.
Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by mostlysimilar on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @08:27PM (#43190316)
In case you haven't noticed, the current US administration is packed full of billionaires who are dismantling all protections that keep free markets from steamrolling average people. They don't need more defense. They are winning more strongly than they ever have.
Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by bitshiftfaced on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @10:34PM (#43191048)
Why are they, in your words, "winning"? More people voted for it than against. My point is that it only seems strange to defend it if you don't personally share the value. Clearly many people who voted differently have different values, and they might say it would need defending.

To see this, suppose Bezos talked instead about how the editorial staff needed to prioritize egalitarianism. There are plenty of people who share this value. You can find a great many manifestations of this value in our society. It's embedded into our constitution and legislation. But does that mean that the newspaper would be wrong to defend egalitarianism?

Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by Terretta on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @11:37PM (#43191410)
> More people voted for it than against.

What's meant by "it"?

• 77,302,580 voted for this administration (49.8%)

• 77,935,722 voted against this administration (50.2%)

Source: https://www.fec.gov/resources/cms-content/documents/2024pres...

Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by araes on Thursday February 27, 2025 @12:05AM (#43191532)
I'd actually like to see the Greens and the Libertarians get together and run a candidate. Oliver (Libs) got 650,126, and Stein got 862,049. Put em together and you've got enough voters to actually have a reasonable chance of grass roots momentum, exponential involvement, compounding returns on capital / effort, large donor buy-ins, numbers that meet news media minima for free coverage, and long-term viability.

The Green's usually are identified as being libertarian socialism anyways, so it would not be a horrible cooperation to hang out with Libertarians and discuss how to make environmentalism; nonviolence; and social justice work with civil liberties; non-interventionism; and laissez-faire capitalism.

And then they could state that they're not a spoiler, since they draw voters relatively equally from what might otherwise be Democrats and Republicans.

Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by bitshiftfaced on Thursday February 27, 2025 @08:17AM (#43194094)
Thanks. If I could, I would edit my comment with, "more people voted for it than any other alternative" so that my comment could run ok through the HN compiler.
Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by whattheheckheck on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @11:23PM (#43191338)
Most people can't string 3 steps of a logical argument together and can't see the system they live in. They actually believe in God and they actually believe they get an afterlife... like how much more gullible can you get
Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by paulddraper on Thursday February 27, 2025 @02:12AM (#43192078)
You could even belong in morality.
Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by XorNot on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @08:31PM (#43190331)
The logical goal of any corporation absent regulation is to become a monopoly...which of course ends the free market.

They don't want a free market. They want to be free to control the market.

Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by typeofhuman on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @08:53PM (#43190440)
1. Maybe there are some (?alot) of regulations that put the government as a middleman collecting lots of royalties for doing nothing.

2. Big corporations actually like, encourage, and write the regulations because they form a moat for which smaller competitors can't cross (how is this news to this website?).

Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by mattoftheweb on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @09:17PM (#43190600)
You just described two sub-steps of:

> They want to be free to control the market

1. One of the tell-tale signs of regulatory capture is when the Government's efforts do little to control/limit a corporation. Like when they end up relegated to 'middleman' between the corporation and consumer.

2. Regulations that serve as a 'moat' against competition is the carrion call for free markets. Capitalism thrives on competition. If the only competition they face is what they allow, then they have no incentive to innovate and create value, only maximize the value they already have.

The counterpoint to #1 doesn't mean that we don't need to trim the fat... but there is a MAJOR difference between what businesses and the average–joe consider 'fat'.

That is what I think is so scary about this, there is no chance Beelzebub's idea of a free market matches my own.

Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by fsckboy on Thursday February 27, 2025 @02:11AM (#43192074)
>the carrion call for free markets

you do realize there's no such thing as a carrion call?

a clarion is a trumpet, and a clarion call is a call for urgency

I suppose with crows ("here's the thing...") you could get a carrion caw

Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by XorNot on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @08:58PM (#43190465)
This isn't contesting anything I said. If your goal is to become a monopoly, then you do what you need to achieve that with any tool available to you.

The lesson is don't let corporations write regulations, not "obviously regulations are always bad".

Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by kibwen on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @08:41PM (#43190372)
"Competition is for losers." ~ Peter Thiel
Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by typeofhuman on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @08:51PM (#43190426)
> dismantling all protections that keep free markets from steamrolling average people.

Which ones exactly?

Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by ineedasername on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @08:58PM (#43190464)
CFPB
Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by rtpg on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @08:31PM (#43190334)
the comment is, I believe, not about importance but about the relative strength of those ideas in American society.

How much ink needs to be spilled defending ideas that have huge amount of backing, even among people who theoretically are ideologically opposed to it? Elizabeth Warren calling herself a capitalist is a pretty strong indicator of how much capitalist realism has taken hold.

It's like Bezos sending out a note saying that editors need to go out to promote not kicking dogs. Even amongst the supposed enemies of free markets, if you ask them enough questions so many people in the US still basically believe in it. Especially among the Post's readership!

Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by WillPostForFood on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @08:40PM (#43190364)
The ideas don't seem to have much backing within the cultural elite (perhaps hypocritically as they benefit from the system), mainstream media, and certainly not the Washington Post. Also declining backing from both political parties.
Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by rtpg on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @09:23PM (#43190648)
While for a conservative it might look like the cultural elite is opposed to these ideas, for someone who is more to the left, the "big tent" on economic issues between the 'cultural elite' and more conservative elements feels much more present.

Price fixing was done during World War 2. Actual, real price fixing. Harris talking about a tiny version of that with an anti-price gouging bill during the campaign got the following headline: "When your opponent calls you ‘communist,’ maybe don’t propose price controls?"

There is an entire world of political and economic positions that exist that are not represented in the pages of the Post. And on the left, not only could you fit entire major ideologies to the left of the leftmost US newspaper op-ed writers, you could _fit entire ideologies to the left of those ideologies_.

Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by WillPostForFood on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @11:34PM (#43191394)
"There is an entire world of political and economic positions that exist that are not represented in the pages of the Post"

I agree, but the case here isn't for fringe views, it is for more balance and debate within the big tent.

Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by loeg on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @07:31PM (#43189983)
Free markets are under attack in all kinds of different dimensions by the ruling president and legislature: tariffs, restricting dock automation, etc.
[dead]
Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by 63 on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @08:28PM (#43190318)
That's not what was said. The line of comments was "free markets are not under attack" followed by "From this perspective, they are." There was no judgement passed. I don't find your response curious or otherwise insightful.
Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by argsnd on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @09:10PM (#43190542)
US on average has higher tariffs than the EU, which the USA wants to apply even higher tariffs on
Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by georgemcbay on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @09:00PM (#43190479)
David Attenborough voice:

And here we see the modern conservative in his natural habitat. Notice that when any idea challenges his world view he will instinctually react with a defense mechanism known as the whataboutism.

Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by robocat on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @09:03PM (#43190494)
The US often talks about wanting free markets: but it uses some pretty big sticks too negotiate with and has some fairly hefty demands to get value for the US. The Trans Pacific agreement was pretty ugly as a New Zealander. In particular was the 'Disney' copyright extensions. The US uses it's economic power to increase is economic power, while inviting other countries to sell their low value farming goods cheaply to the US.

And it's not like they are respecting the intention of NAFTA - what's an agreement worth if the US can unilaterally decide to hack around their agreements.

Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by FireBeyond on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @09:11PM (#43190551)
The only reason that prescription meds are advertised in New Zealand (US and NZ are the only countries in the world that allow direct to consumer pharma marketing) was because the US strong-armed it into a trade agreement.
Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by defrost on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @10:12PM (#43190927)
According to two medical professionals from the Department of Public Health and General Practice, University of Otago, Christchurch, New Zealand and writing in theBMJ

Industry funded patient information and the slippery slope to New Zealand

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2001072/

  In New Zealand and the US, the only two developed countries that allow direct to consumer advertising of prescription medicines, opposition has grown steadily from both the public and doctors. New Zealand's health system is much closer to those in Europe than the US system. So what can we learn from its experience?

  Rise of advertising

  Unlike most other developed countries, New Zealand never enacted pre-emptive legislation to prevent direct to consumer advertising.

  The adverts started appearing in the early 1990s, and steadily increased.

  But the US Food and Drugs Administration relaxation of regulatory requirements for broadcast advertising in 1997, unleashed an explosion in both the US and New Zealand.

  Last year drug companies spent over $5bn (£2.5bn; €3.6bn) on direct to consumer advertising in the US and tens of millions of dollars in New Zealand.
It was as much absence of barriers to entry as it was a strong armed entry.
Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by FireBeyond on Thursday February 27, 2025 @12:14AM (#43191565)
I definitely misremembered, then.

But looking now I'm also seeing "due to heavy lobbying by the pharma industry, including the US pharmaceutical companies" as to why it hasn't been shut down. But I stand corrected.

Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by defrost on Thursday February 27, 2025 @01:03AM (#43191764)
No drama, I honestly had no idea, it was thanks to your comment that I looked it up at all.

It sparked curiousity.

Now I'm thankful Australia had laws in place ahead of any pharma drama.

Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by Aloisius on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @10:57PM (#43191183)
The US doesn't have a trade agreement with NZ.
Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by brutal_chaos_ on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @10:01PM (#43190871)
Can you cite this claim?
Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by robocat on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @09:18PM (#43190605)
Wow - I always wondered why our good lefty country had those. Personally I find those adverts disgusting even though I'm business friendly and respect some of the outputs of pharma.
Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by paulddraper on Thursday February 27, 2025 @02:09AM (#43192061)
Though that is decidedly a pro-free market philosophy.
Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by bradleybuda on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @09:06PM (#43190510)
Not to mention the total lack of regard for the rule of law, a previous strong point for companies doing business in the US
Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by techorange on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @08:08PM (#43190217)
I mean, actually, I would argue that free markets in America are in desperate need of defense, but probably not the kind that Jeff Bezos would provide.

Specifically away from business consolidations and monopolistic tactics. The very kind of thing that may lead to something like the breakup of say Amazon.

Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by goatlover on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @07:48PM (#43190111)
25% tarrifs on Europe certainly isn't an example of free markets.
Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by nxm on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @08:26PM (#43190304)
It is… free market allows reciprocity of tariffs levied against US products in the EU
Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by loeg on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @09:17PM (#43190599)
The president's tariffs are not wholly reciprocal to foreign tariffs.
Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by amanaplanacanal on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @08:43PM (#43190383)
I believe what you are describing is commonly known as fair trade, not free trade.
Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by gruez on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @09:03PM (#43190493)
At least in common parlance, "fair trade" just referred to paying third world farmers a "fair" (ie. above market value) price.
Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by PaulHoule on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @09:11PM (#43190553)
If there are 25% bidirectional tariffs the big companies win but you lose. In a free market without tariffs you are free to go to the better vendor no matter which country you go to. Competition makes everybody get better.

With 25% tariffs Europeans go to the tired European monopoly and Americans get gouged by the American monopolies. The monopolists agree it's great but you pay more for worse services.

Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by sergiomattei on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @10:37PM (#43191067)
Isn’t it a return to protectionist, mercantilist-like policy? That’s the opposite of a free market.
Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by Ancalagon on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @06:50PM (#43189673)
They aren't free. Noticed all the oligopolies around lately?
Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by fatbird on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @07:00PM (#43189745)
Do you think Bezos has it in mind to take on those oligoplies when he changes the editorial focus to promoting free markets?
Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by ayjay_t on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @07:04PM (#43189775)
It's not the worst reach
Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by UncleMeat on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @07:52PM (#43190145)
To Bezos, "free markets" is a world where Amazon is free to monopolize however it wants without interference. It is one where people like Lina Khan are imprisoned or shot rather than placed in positions of power.

What consumers want is a competitive market with many choices that pushes down prices and forced companies to innovate. What Bezos wants is to crush everybody else.

Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by pylotlight on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @07:38PM (#43190040)
Lately? When was it not like that?
Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by PaulHoule on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @09:09PM (#43190539)
From 1932 to 1980 or so the government tried to break up big monopolies to encourage competition, both parties pretty much agreed not to do that (there are some real benefits to consolidation) until the last 8 year or so because monopoly power is getting extreme. See https://www.thebignewsletter.com/
Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by tacticus on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @10:32PM (#43191033)
partly because of astroturfing about "benevolent" monopolies that was pushed on to judges and politicians
Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by inejge on Thursday February 27, 2025 @01:17AM (#43191832)
From 1932 to 1980 or so the government tried to break up big monopolies to encourage competition

Starting with FDR and ending with Reagan? I think that the history of US antitrust is more complicated. The first round of trust busting (Sherman Act, Standard Oil) was a generation before FDR, and the period you've highlighted had two great monopolies, AT&T and IBM. I agree that the policy had been pretty much hands off between Microsoft and big tech.

Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by PaulHoule on Thursday February 27, 2025 @09:05AM (#43194480)
You're right about the chronology, it did start around 1900 or so.
Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by slibhb on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @06:44PM (#43189618)
There are plenty of people who defend free markets...but both political parties are increasingly against them.

Biden and Harris both campaigned on price controls. Trump is all in on tariffs.

Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by nickpeterson on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @08:10PM (#43190228)
You don’t get big corporate donations to your superpac by trying to bust up monopolies.
Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by gruez on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @09:05PM (#43190507)
Democrats out-fundraised the Republicans last election and were arguably more anti-business (eg. Lina Khan's FTC) than the Republicans.
Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by XorNot on Wednesday February 26, 2025 @08:36PM (#43190345)
Don't pretend cost of living wasn't a lot of Trump voters reason to vote for Trump. The tarrifs weren't a surprise and Vance was running around brandishing a box of eggs as the greatest problem.

The electorate only likes free markets when it makes things cheap with no consequences they care about.

Re:Jeff Bezos' revamp of 'Washington Post' opinions leads ed... by paulddraper on Thursday February 27, 2025 @02:13AM (#43192087)
That sounds beneficial for sure.