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Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by a2tech on Sunday January 05, 2025 @10:16AM (#42602300)
This is the reality of building your life around sport—-there’s basically no money in it unless you’re on the extreme edge. I wish people would stop dumping their entire life’s energy into chasing it—-do something more useful like stamping parts out in a factory. Olympic athletes are stunningly focused achievers—I’d love to see that energy and drive applied to something that mattered.
Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by electrozav on Sunday January 05, 2025 @11:16AM (#42602753)
I assure you this motivation does not exist in a vacuum, and many will quite rightly find achievement more important than generating capital for someone else.
Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by PapstJL4U on Sunday January 05, 2025 @11:00AM (#42602614)
If you don't put in the energy and drive, someone else will and someone else will be good enough to make money of their drive and energy.

It's although very hard to just find something else, that gives you the same satisfaction as your favourite "past-time" - the only job that is as good as doing sport, is sport as a job.

Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by floatrock on Sunday January 05, 2025 @10:35AM (#42602448)
Is this meant to be sarcasm? If we're comparing only stamping parts in a factory vs. pushing the human body to its limits, you probably ain't gonna make money in either. But one of them is going to be a far more satisfying way to live for the soul. We can talk about other things that matter, but there's probably less of that out there than you might think.
Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by gruez on Sunday January 05, 2025 @10:52AM (#42602562)
>If we're comparing only stamping parts in a factory vs. pushing the human body to its limits, you probably ain't gonna make money in either. But one of them is going to be a far more satisfying way to live for the soul.

You can't eat "more satisfying way to live for the soul", and if you can't convince people to sponsor your endeavors, then you'll have to get a job that produce goods/services people are willing to pay for, like most other people.

Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by EA-3167 on Sunday January 05, 2025 @10:38AM (#42602469)
I think the point was pretty simple: there's no reason that pursuing your Olympic dreams would be a way to make money. So feed your soul, but unless you come to it with money, be prepared to find another way to feed your wallet.
Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by kgilpin on Sunday January 05, 2025 @11:26AM (#42602843)
Sports is entertainment. It inspires people and brings joy. It brings people together. It sets positive examples of the rewards that can come from consistent effort and teamwork. Athletes are people making the most of the gifts they’ve been given. This is all laudable.
Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by EA-3167 on Sunday January 05, 2025 @11:41AM (#42602948)
It certainly shows how much more rewarding it is to work for the IOC, a government, or a corporation than it is to be an Olympian. It shows that being genetically gifted is the primary metric of success in sports (I don't care how hard you work, you aren't ever out-swimming Michael Phelps), and a lot of things bring people together that don't cost $10 billion, most of which is funneled into a bunch of hidden pockets.
Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by tomjen3 on Monday January 06, 2025 @11:01AM (#42611647)
That can certainly be the case, although usually I find that athletes are not the kind of people who should be considered inspirational.

But on the other hand, if you were to go watch a launch from SpaceX, You will find that there's already a crowd being inspired, experiencing joy, and it absolutely brings people together. So why not work more on that and less on sports?

Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by NickC25 on Monday January 06, 2025 @08:08PM (#42618092)
>But on the other hand, if you were to go watch a launch from SpaceX, You will find that there's already a crowd being inspired, experiencing joy, and it absolutely brings people together. So why not work more on that and less on sports?

You go find me a Space X launch in some of the countries that produce, say, top footballers. In those countries, then go find me a robust educational infrastructure. You won't find the educational resources for one to become a top aerospace engineer or astrophysicist in say, Ghana or Mali.

Sports are popular because enjoying them either by playing or watching doesn't require a ton of brain power.

Let people enjoy what they want, who are you (or I) to judge?

Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by yallpendantools on Sunday January 05, 2025 @12:42PM (#42603416)
> I’d love to see that energy and drive applied to something that mattered.

>> I'd love to see that energy and drive rewarded and respected by society like self-actualization mattered, not just the next paycheck.

FTFY.

Let's not be condescending to athletic pursuit. Is that drive and passion really any different to the fuel of many a start-up hustler who, when their funding ran out, didn't really manage to change the world, with neither disruptive business model nor novel technical developments to show for it? Are they really so different from publish-or-perish academics toiling on some obscure edge of human knowledge which is more likely to either be a dead end or a small brick on which a cathedral of a grand discovery will be built upon rather than being THE paradigm-shifting, theory-unifying, revolutionary thesis?

Let's not be condescending to athletic pursuit because it's "just" entertainment. For a lot of people that struggle for faster, higher, stronger is inspiration, just as the early days of AirBnB/Facebook/Google is spoken of in hallowed tones in all-hands meetings, start-up mixers, and conferences, as motivation. Yeah, the ethics of the hustle might be questionable but fact of the matter is, at the end of the day, we all need heroes to look up to to some extent.

If code can be poetry then surely so can a gutsy maneuver, a clever tactic, or a sonofabitching Hail Mary of an opportunistic play. Sports---just as science, math, business, or literature---are narratives of struggle, human ingenuity, and achievement.

Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by syndicatedjelly on Sunday January 05, 2025 @02:07PM (#42604115)
This is one of the most dystopian and depressing things I've ever read. Quit your dreams and be productive for the Economy, peasant.
Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by llamaimperative on Monday January 06, 2025 @06:58AM (#42609834)
Is it equally dystopian if you consider that “be productive for the economy” is shorthand for and quite closely related to “do something of value for your fellow community members?”

(Yes obviously there are extreme and very visible edge cases, but 99.999% of things normal people get paid to do is something valuable for their neighbor)

Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by ludston on Monday January 06, 2025 @09:05AM (#42610627)
Are athletes are working themselves to injury for the sake of improving the lives of the people around them? I do not see this. Athletes are competing for themselves: for fame, money and to feed their egos.

I do not see the virtue in athletics given that being an entertainer, and being powerful and fit are intrinsically rewarding enough. I'd much rather we were funding musicians and artists, but only a fraction of funding goes to these in comparison to the behemoth that is sports.

Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by zeroCalories on Monday January 06, 2025 @09:23AM (#42610761)
Athletes serve as aspirational figures that drive interest towards sports that keep people healthy. There is an ugly skinny-fat / fat-fat hatred of sports born from post-war folklore about jocks and nerds.
Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by Nursie on Thursday January 09, 2025 @02:12AM (#42642526)
> Athletes serve as aspirational figures that drive interest towards sports that keep people healthy.

No, they don't. The olympics in particular have been shown not to have any sort of lasting effect on host countries or the world in general.

AFAICT this whole thing is a fallacy dreamt up as part of the justification for spending billions on games.

Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by RugnirViking on Monday January 06, 2025 @10:06AM (#42611145)
> 99.999% of things normal people get paid to do is something valuable for their neighbor

My intuition is that you will find a small and decreasing number of people agree with or believe this

Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by llamaimperative on Monday January 06, 2025 @10:19AM (#42611265)
Sure, but that's because they're wrong.

Consider the counterfactual. In order for it to be true that many people are paid for work that isn't valuable, it'd have to be true that many people are willingly parting with their money for no reason at all.

That does happen, of course, and it's so special we think highly of people when they do it (it's called charity).

Just because people can't reason about the transmission of value throughout a complex economy doesn't mean it's not happening. In fact that's the beauty of currency and market economies: it doesn't need to be comprehensible to anyone outside of the transaction.

Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by electrozav on Monday January 06, 2025 @11:42AM (#42612124)
There are many cases of market failure and inefficiencies, rentiers, useless 'BS jobs' and unchecked monopolies in a market economy. Why would the people criticizing it be wrong? It's not like it's rare.

A landlord or a holder of IP can and will arrange deals that have negative value for society because of the fact it attracts monetary value for them.

A client paying for a service, is this done 'willingly' when it is needed and no other choice exists? If someone wants to compete, can they navigate the moats companies are so fond of?

Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by llamaimperative on Monday January 06, 2025 @02:11PM (#42614212)
Re failures and inefficiencies, correct. But 99.999% of jobs do not fall into those categories for any meaningful duration of time.

Agreed on landlords -- this is a rather unique but huge failure case. My comment history is full of harping on this particular point :)

> A client paying for a service, is this done 'willingly' when it is needed and no other choice exists?

Yeah obviously you can do the work yourself.

Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by rat87 on Thursday January 09, 2025 @12:57PM (#42648127)
I think the concept of BS jobs is BS. That's because the fulfillment people get from jobs isn't tied to the value the economic value they provide to the firm or even the social value they may or may not provide. Some people may hate teaching because they feel it is soul crushing to them (especially if they are not supported and the school isn't in good shape) despite it being socially useful someone else may enjoy being an elderly greeter because it lets them continue working and they may feel they are providing some social value even if most people don't care another person may be happy working at the shrinkwrap factory because it provides money for their family
Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by tsupiroti on Monday January 06, 2025 @10:29AM (#42611353)
"GDP measures everything except that which is worthwhile"
Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by llamaimperative on Monday January 06, 2025 @11:18AM (#42611826)
This is irrelevant, I'm not talking about GDP. I'm saying that people generally don't pay money for things they don't value, ergo when people are paid money, it's for things that other people value.
Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by tsupiroti on Monday January 06, 2025 @06:34PM (#42617392)
That's exactly what GDP measures: how much money people have paid and gotten paid for things.
Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by llamaimperative on Monday January 06, 2025 @08:50PM (#42618324)
Right... and GDP being a bad metric (for most decisions) doesn't have any relevance to the discussion. It doesn't imply anything about the thing it measures.

By analogy, good engines produce power. A speedometer measures the engine's power under a set of conditions. However, a speedometer is not (by itself) a good way to measure an engine because there are other factors you care about. The fact that a speedometer is a bad measure of engine power does not mean that engine power is unimportant or bad.

If I said, "high max speed means good engine," or "high GDP means economy is working well," your comment would be relevant.

I did not say that. I said "the overwhelming majority of transactions in an economy are of mutual benefit to the transactors."

Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by tsupiroti on Tuesday January 07, 2025 @02:07AM (#42620098)
Rereading the previous comments, I agree you're right. Good analogy.
Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by llamaimperative on Tuesday January 07, 2025 @11:32AM (#42624258)
Well shucks, thank you! It took me a while to come up with haha, so glad it was satisfactory :)
Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by snackbroken on Thursday January 09, 2025 @03:30AM (#42643104)
Being of mutual benefit to the transactors is not the same as being of value for your neighbor. A transaction being mutually beneficial to the transactors is neither necessary nor sufficient for the transaction to be generating value.

Consider FooCorp paying an advertiser to convince people to buy its gizmos rather than the market leader Bar Inc.'s widgets. This is then followed by Bar Inc. paying the same advertiser to convince the same people to go back to buying widgets again. Each transaction is to the benefit of both the advertiser and the respective manufacturer, but taken together leaves the world in the same state as it was to begin with. No value was created. In fact, value was destroyed (the opportunity cost of labor by the advertiser).

An example of a transaction that is not to the mutual benefit of the transactors, yet increases value is the levying of fines against behavior which has externalized costs greater than their internalized gains. The fine is not to the benefit of the party it is levied against, but the effect of deterring negative-total-value behavior is equivalent to creating value.

I'm not convinced >99% of people's jobs are of the value-creating kind but it's certainly well above 50%. Several of the largest companies in our industry are arguably of the negative value kind. Insurance companies that accept premiums but deny legitimate claims certainly are.

Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by fulafel on Thursday January 09, 2025 @02:09AM (#42642492)
A lot of things that your neighbor may like are still net negative (see the ongoing climate catastrophe and think about fossils production, air travel, etc).
Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by lz400 on Thursday January 09, 2025 @04:52AM (#42643586)
The word valuable is doing a lot of heavy lifting there. I don't personally consider the legions of people working in filling my eyeballs with advertisement valuable, but it certainly makes a lot of money.
Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by olyjohn on Monday January 06, 2025 @11:52AM (#42612254)
Man you guys got trolled by the parent comment so hard.
Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by gregors on Sunday January 05, 2025 @04:27PM (#42605198)
>>>> there’s basically no money in it

Who cares there's no money in it? Lots of things that have been corrupted with money are also hardly worth pursuing.

Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by vermilingua on Sunday January 05, 2025 @04:28PM (#42605211)
If you’re asking the question, you clearly don’t have to worry about money. For most it’s a question of survival.
Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by gregors on Sunday January 05, 2025 @04:40PM (#42605289)
You clearly come from a country without a social safety net. Most people never make it to the olympics much less professional sports. So all the people who don't make it die? No they transition into other industries.Trying and failing is much better than never trying at all. Long live the dreamers and artists.
Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by 52-6F-62 on Tuesday January 07, 2025 @09:58AM (#42623015)
Ridiculous. Life is not about getting the most money. You can’t eat money, doesn’t matter how much you have. Someone, somewhere has to do work that makes less money for some other gain so that you can eat what you do.

By that standard if survival means that we have to return to child sacrifice or something else so heinous then I guess engaging in anything but is also privileged.

These people are pursuing the survival of their souls. If you lose that, you cannot regain it. And time is not an athlete’s friend. You can always make money. It’s not going anywhere.

Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by _rm on Monday January 06, 2025 @06:18AM (#42609637)
I know a poster who needs a few weeks working in a sulfur mine for a dollar a day to pull his head down to earth
Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by AngryData on Sunday January 05, 2025 @04:40PM (#42605292)
Define "something that mattered", because over half the stuff posted on hackernews is a complete waste of time and effort if your only real metric is profitability. The vast majority of "hacking" in general is of negative financial value.
Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by _rm on Monday January 06, 2025 @06:12AM (#42609608)
Absolutely savage
Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by llamaimperative on Monday January 06, 2025 @06:55AM (#42609824)
Right but GP’s comment would apply if someone posted a complaint about “why is no one paying me a salary to build an ESP32 thermometer that tickles my feet when it gets below 80 outside?”
Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by tsupiroti on Monday January 06, 2025 @10:27AM (#42611333)
Well, there are often threads lamenting that open source maintainers don't get paid more.
Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by baq on Thursday January 09, 2025 @02:21AM (#42642602)
And then cries of disgust and demands of professional services 24/7 for free because someone found a bug in your hobby project which turned out to be useful for some megacorp or VC funded startup.
Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by DontchaKnowit on Monday January 06, 2025 @09:59AM (#42611088)
Yeah and half the stuff that is of financial value is complete cancer on our society. Social media, advertising systems, etc etc.
Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by tomjen3 on Monday January 06, 2025 @10:58AM (#42611630)
You're entirely correct. However, most people on Hacker News are also making decent money on the side with their main job.

This is not the case for most Olympians, because even for sports that are not attracting large amounts of visitors and viewers and therefore sponsorships, you still basically need to dedicate your life to it.

You don't need to dedicate your life to writing code unless you are working for an early-stage startup or Elon Musk. So you have spare time which you can use to write code.

Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by 52-6F-62 on Tuesday January 07, 2025 @09:37AM (#42622776)
Careful. Trying to detach profitability from utility and necessity, nevermind any higher level ethical or philosophical questions, may get you strung up around here.
Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by timeon on Thursday January 09, 2025 @06:07AM (#42644080)
> "something that mattered"

Like decreasing quality of life for everybody through ad-tech.

Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by mcphage on Sunday January 05, 2025 @07:49PM (#42606439)
> there’s basically no money in it unless you’re on the extreme edge

These are Olympic athletes, they are on the extreme edge.

Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by xyst on Sunday January 05, 2025 @10:31PM (#42607374)
your neo-liberalism is showing.
Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by itake on Monday January 06, 2025 @01:15AM (#42608170)
> Olympic athletes are stunningly focused achievers—I’d love to see that energy and drive applied to something that mattered.

Some of their focus comes from just being naturally talented at their activity. I am really focused on coding, b/c I have a natural affinity to working with computers, but that doesn't mean I can focus on gymnastics.

Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by ludston on Monday January 06, 2025 @08:46AM (#42610505)
People often like what they are good at, true, but people become good at things through work and practice. I am tired of the general attitude that somebody will either like something or dislike it after they give it a little try, when pretty much any performance art, be it programming, playing sport, drawing or learning an instrument comes front-loaded with hundreds of hours of practice before somebody can get good enough at it to properly enjoy it.
Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by rwyinuse on Monday January 06, 2025 @08:34AM (#42610431)
Most stuff that "matters" or is "useful" also pays next to nothing, or has been outsourced to China if you happen to live in the West. There's nothing useful to do for most of today's workforce in post-industrial societies, except things like nursing which are severely underpaid.
Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by nradov on Monday January 06, 2025 @09:18AM (#42610728)
Huh? Unemployment is low and median wages are up. Nursing might not be the highest paying job but they earn a median wage of $86k which is pretty good in most areas.
Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by DrillShopper on Monday January 06, 2025 @12:03PM (#42612388)
> Nursing might not be the highest paying job but they earn a median wage of $86k which is pretty good in most areas.

Oh darn that's good that nursing school is free then!/s

Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by baq on Thursday January 09, 2025 @02:24AM (#42642627)
Ah yes the end state of society is childless nurses working their assess of caring after way too many retired old people.
Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by chrisandchris on Monday January 06, 2025 @10:37AM (#42611432)
What a depressing comment.

> I'd love to see that energy and drive [...]

I'm a former professional athlete in a marginalized sports. Sadly never made it to Olympia. I learned that energy and drive by doing my sport, and I wasn't "born" with it (well, maybe with the genes, but it's something one has to learn IMHO). I think I am now what I am thanks to doing sports for more than 5 year as my main activity (in terms of invested time) and maybe 10 years as secondary activity.

Money was always tight, and I was happy to leave my sport with a "black zero" on my bank account. I never did it for the money, but I'm happy to not ran into bankrupcty just for my dream. And that's what I hope is the minimum for every athlete.

Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by mvc on Thursday January 09, 2025 @05:36AM (#42643879)
In all seriousness, "thankyou for your service".

I'm an absolute middling athlete. In my 40s. Half a life spent at a desk. And then I picked up a bit of running/cycling as one does. And joined a local club, and became absolutely inspired by the people of all ages at the club entering competitions, doing big feats of endurance. Just for the love of the sport, or the thrill of achieving something difficult.

I'm still a middling athlete but now one that makes sure to fit in a bit of exercise each week and continues to make solid progress. So even if you haven't won any medals, you've likely inspired someone into making changes for the better.

Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by insane_dreamer on Thursday January 09, 2025 @02:07AM (#42642472)
> I’d love to see that energy and drive applied to something that mattered

it matters to them; who cares whether it matters to you?

Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by carlosjobim on Thursday January 09, 2025 @09:13AM (#42645702)
Are you per chance stamping parts out in a factory?

The Soviet Union used to give the award "Hero of Socialist Labour" to top performers in the labour force, and public spaces everywhere had billboards celebrating local labour performers.

Could you name any top labourer in your region, your country or the world? Any certain factory worker that comes to mind?