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Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by syndicatedjelly on Sunday January 05, 2025 @02:07PM (#42604115)
This is one of the most dystopian and depressing things I've ever read. Quit your dreams and be productive for the Economy, peasant.
Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by llamaimperative on Monday January 06, 2025 @06:58AM (#42609834)
Is it equally dystopian if you consider that “be productive for the economy” is shorthand for and quite closely related to “do something of value for your fellow community members?”

(Yes obviously there are extreme and very visible edge cases, but 99.999% of things normal people get paid to do is something valuable for their neighbor)

Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by ludston on Monday January 06, 2025 @09:05AM (#42610627)
Are athletes are working themselves to injury for the sake of improving the lives of the people around them? I do not see this. Athletes are competing for themselves: for fame, money and to feed their egos.

I do not see the virtue in athletics given that being an entertainer, and being powerful and fit are intrinsically rewarding enough. I'd much rather we were funding musicians and artists, but only a fraction of funding goes to these in comparison to the behemoth that is sports.

Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by zeroCalories on Monday January 06, 2025 @09:23AM (#42610761)
Athletes serve as aspirational figures that drive interest towards sports that keep people healthy. There is an ugly skinny-fat / fat-fat hatred of sports born from post-war folklore about jocks and nerds.
Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by Nursie on Thursday January 09, 2025 @02:12AM (#42642526)
> Athletes serve as aspirational figures that drive interest towards sports that keep people healthy.

No, they don't. The olympics in particular have been shown not to have any sort of lasting effect on host countries or the world in general.

AFAICT this whole thing is a fallacy dreamt up as part of the justification for spending billions on games.

Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by RugnirViking on Monday January 06, 2025 @10:06AM (#42611145)
> 99.999% of things normal people get paid to do is something valuable for their neighbor

My intuition is that you will find a small and decreasing number of people agree with or believe this

Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by llamaimperative on Monday January 06, 2025 @10:19AM (#42611265)
Sure, but that's because they're wrong.

Consider the counterfactual. In order for it to be true that many people are paid for work that isn't valuable, it'd have to be true that many people are willingly parting with their money for no reason at all.

That does happen, of course, and it's so special we think highly of people when they do it (it's called charity).

Just because people can't reason about the transmission of value throughout a complex economy doesn't mean it's not happening. In fact that's the beauty of currency and market economies: it doesn't need to be comprehensible to anyone outside of the transaction.

Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by electrozav on Monday January 06, 2025 @11:42AM (#42612124)
There are many cases of market failure and inefficiencies, rentiers, useless 'BS jobs' and unchecked monopolies in a market economy. Why would the people criticizing it be wrong? It's not like it's rare.

A landlord or a holder of IP can and will arrange deals that have negative value for society because of the fact it attracts monetary value for them.

A client paying for a service, is this done 'willingly' when it is needed and no other choice exists? If someone wants to compete, can they navigate the moats companies are so fond of?

Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by llamaimperative on Monday January 06, 2025 @02:11PM (#42614212)
Re failures and inefficiencies, correct. But 99.999% of jobs do not fall into those categories for any meaningful duration of time.

Agreed on landlords -- this is a rather unique but huge failure case. My comment history is full of harping on this particular point :)

> A client paying for a service, is this done 'willingly' when it is needed and no other choice exists?

Yeah obviously you can do the work yourself.

Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by rat87 on Thursday January 09, 2025 @12:57PM (#42648127)
I think the concept of BS jobs is BS. That's because the fulfillment people get from jobs isn't tied to the value the economic value they provide to the firm or even the social value they may or may not provide. Some people may hate teaching because they feel it is soul crushing to them (especially if they are not supported and the school isn't in good shape) despite it being socially useful someone else may enjoy being an elderly greeter because it lets them continue working and they may feel they are providing some social value even if most people don't care another person may be happy working at the shrinkwrap factory because it provides money for their family
Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by tsupiroti on Monday January 06, 2025 @10:29AM (#42611353)
"GDP measures everything except that which is worthwhile"
Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by llamaimperative on Monday January 06, 2025 @11:18AM (#42611826)
This is irrelevant, I'm not talking about GDP. I'm saying that people generally don't pay money for things they don't value, ergo when people are paid money, it's for things that other people value.
Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by tsupiroti on Monday January 06, 2025 @06:34PM (#42617392)
That's exactly what GDP measures: how much money people have paid and gotten paid for things.
Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by llamaimperative on Monday January 06, 2025 @08:50PM (#42618324)
Right... and GDP being a bad metric (for most decisions) doesn't have any relevance to the discussion. It doesn't imply anything about the thing it measures.

By analogy, good engines produce power. A speedometer measures the engine's power under a set of conditions. However, a speedometer is not (by itself) a good way to measure an engine because there are other factors you care about. The fact that a speedometer is a bad measure of engine power does not mean that engine power is unimportant or bad.

If I said, "high max speed means good engine," or "high GDP means economy is working well," your comment would be relevant.

I did not say that. I said "the overwhelming majority of transactions in an economy are of mutual benefit to the transactors."

Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by tsupiroti on Tuesday January 07, 2025 @02:07AM (#42620098)
Rereading the previous comments, I agree you're right. Good analogy.
Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by llamaimperative on Tuesday January 07, 2025 @11:32AM (#42624258)
Well shucks, thank you! It took me a while to come up with haha, so glad it was satisfactory :)
Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by snackbroken on Thursday January 09, 2025 @03:30AM (#42643104)
Being of mutual benefit to the transactors is not the same as being of value for your neighbor. A transaction being mutually beneficial to the transactors is neither necessary nor sufficient for the transaction to be generating value.

Consider FooCorp paying an advertiser to convince people to buy its gizmos rather than the market leader Bar Inc.'s widgets. This is then followed by Bar Inc. paying the same advertiser to convince the same people to go back to buying widgets again. Each transaction is to the benefit of both the advertiser and the respective manufacturer, but taken together leaves the world in the same state as it was to begin with. No value was created. In fact, value was destroyed (the opportunity cost of labor by the advertiser).

An example of a transaction that is not to the mutual benefit of the transactors, yet increases value is the levying of fines against behavior which has externalized costs greater than their internalized gains. The fine is not to the benefit of the party it is levied against, but the effect of deterring negative-total-value behavior is equivalent to creating value.

I'm not convinced >99% of people's jobs are of the value-creating kind but it's certainly well above 50%. Several of the largest companies in our industry are arguably of the negative value kind. Insurance companies that accept premiums but deny legitimate claims certainly are.

Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by fulafel on Thursday January 09, 2025 @02:09AM (#42642492)
A lot of things that your neighbor may like are still net negative (see the ongoing climate catastrophe and think about fossils production, air travel, etc).
Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by lz400 on Thursday January 09, 2025 @04:52AM (#42643586)
The word valuable is doing a lot of heavy lifting there. I don't personally consider the legions of people working in filling my eyeballs with advertisement valuable, but it certainly makes a lot of money.
Re:Olympians turn to OnlyFans to fund dreams due to 'broken'... by olyjohn on Monday January 06, 2025 @11:52AM (#42612254)
Man you guys got trolled by the parent comment so hard.