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Re:Netflix: Piracy is difficult to compete against and growi... by eastbound on Sunday February 04, 2024 @05:57PM (#39255392)
But that means companies must sell for the marginal price of their website’s ergonomics, not for the marginal price of producing movies.

(Which is not a big loss, because I can’t imagine producing the Netflix knockoffs be a hundredth the price of a 007).

Re:Netflix: Piracy is difficult to compete against and growi... by al_borland on Sunday February 04, 2024 @06:27PM (#39255605)
It’s not about an individual website, it’s about the industry. It’s not that Netflix, or any other service, is hard to use on its own. It’s the fragmentation of the content that makes it hard to use.

This was solved for with music where pretty much every service has pretty much every song. People don’t need multiple music services, they just pick the one that best fits their style and needs. This is what the movie and TV industry needs to do if they want to beat piracy. This is what they should have done 15 years ago. Their greed is hurting them more than it’s helping.

Re:Netflix: Piracy is difficult to compete against and growi... by jowea on Sunday February 04, 2024 @08:43PM (#39256377)
I wonder if mandating content licenses being non-exclusive and separating media distributors from producers would help.
Re:Netflix: Piracy is difficult to compete against and growi... by deaddodo on Sunday February 04, 2024 @08:47PM (#39256395)
This seems to be the most obvious solution, and is what solved the movie industry's greed back in the the studio system days. But, the industry will fight it tooth and nail, because they lose control and potential margins on it at the expense of the consumer.
Re:Netflix: Piracy is difficult to compete against and growi... by dehrmann on Sunday February 04, 2024 @10:48PM (#39257081)
It's mostly working for music. Spotify and Apple aren't competing on their catalogs.
Re:Netflix: Piracy is difficult to compete against and growi... by Mindwipe on Monday February 05, 2024 @06:40AM (#39260119)
Spotify loses money (which is why they keep trying to do things that are not music to keep the company afloat), and while Apple doesn't split out Music it's fairly unlikely that is a profitable business either.

Music is literally a textbook example of why it doesn't work.

Re:Netflix: Piracy is difficult to compete against and growi... by Aeolun on Monday February 05, 2024 @06:48AM (#39260184)
Spotify can just raise prices by 50% and make money? If they tell me the choice is between Spotify disappearing and me paying more, the choice is extremely easy.
Re:Netflix: Piracy is difficult to compete against and growi... by Mindwipe on Tuesday February 06, 2024 @08:37AM (#39274031)
If Spotify raises prices they have to pay the vast majority of that out to labels still, it's all percentage models.

And they likely lose subscribers to they literally get poorer.

Spotify knows it's only way out is exclusive content, hence the Rogan deal et al.

Re:Netflix: Piracy is difficult to compete against and growi... by int_19h on Friday February 16, 2024 @12:57AM (#39393690)
Image we actually had a law like that.

Then Spotify would have to charge whatever they need to charge to remain profitable without exclusive content. And the labels would have to charge Spotify whatever they need to charge for Spotify to exist, because otherwise they wouldn't have anywhere to sell their content.

Re:Netflix: Piracy is difficult to compete against and growi... by baby_souffle on Sunday February 04, 2024 @09:14PM (#39256525)
> It’s the fragmentation of the content that makes it hard to use.

I wish somebody could get all the media execs in a room and just deliver a simple message: "You can't compete on price; your competition is free. You must compete on experience if you're to compete at all."

With just a few hours worth of time and effort, it's possible to get a pretty sophisticated and automatic system set up that essentially makes getting a copy of a movie a literal one-click operation. You won't be able to watch it _right then_ as the find, download, process, import ... etc pipe takes time to run but at the end you'll have a high quality copy that will work on any device anywhere in the world.

Other than the immediacy, piracy is cheaper and less burdensome.

Re:Netflix: Piracy is difficult to compete against and growi... by TeMPOraL on Sunday February 04, 2024 @11:20PM (#39257270)
> I wish somebody could get all the media execs in a room and just deliver a simple message: "You can't compete on price; your competition is free. You must compete on experience if you're to compete at all."

Unfortunately, there is the House of the Mouse, aka. Disney Legal Military Industrial Complex, and they don't let individuals or governments tell them what they can or can't compete on.

Re:Netflix: Piracy is difficult to compete against and growi... by internet101010 on Sunday February 04, 2024 @09:57PM (#39256777)
Yeah that's what I have and I will never go back. I open one app for VOD content and one for audio content. The quality is often superior to the streaming platforms for movies.

Not having to care about which platform something is on is so nice.

Re:Netflix: Piracy is difficult to compete against and growi... by izacus on Monday February 05, 2024 @03:45AM (#39258769)
They did... and the execs ordered everyone from OS, hardware to software companies to add more DRM instead.
Re:Netflix: Piracy is difficult to compete against and growi... by data-ottawa on Sunday February 04, 2024 @10:14PM (#39256885)
I had Prime Video, and when searching for content I would get told to subscribe to some channel within Prime. Now Crave (in Canada) does the same thing. Netflix doesn't bother integrating with Apple TV's search or aggregation features to try and drive you into the app.

The end result is searching for legitimate content is a terrible experience. If it's a result from Prime, I just pass. If it's from Crave, I pass. If it's on Netflix, I don't see anything at all.

At least a decade ago streaming boxes had one search box and it would return results from all the sources, and if it appeared you knew you could watch it.

What the streamers provide today is a significantly worse experience than piracy, and I don't know how they haven't realized this.

Re:Netflix: Piracy is difficult to compete against and growi... by inversetelecine on Sunday February 04, 2024 @10:28PM (#39256963)
And now prime wants another $2.99 to stream without ads. Something I had previously included. Nickle and diming also drives customers away.
Re:Netflix: Piracy is difficult to compete against and growi... by midasuni on Monday February 05, 2024 @01:42AM (#39258053)
Drove me away. Increasing the price on my yearly renewal wouldn’t have been noticed. Sending me adverts means Amazon have lost out on far more than my cancelled prime subscription - I haven’t bought anything from them, and that’s over $100 a month revenue lost.
Re:Netflix: Piracy is difficult to compete against and growi... by Aeolun on Monday February 05, 2024 @06:45AM (#39260165)
You can make the ads go away by paying more? How? Seeing ads on my paid for service is driving me absolutely crazy.
Re:Netflix: Piracy is difficult to compete against and growi... by fragmede on Monday February 05, 2024 @05:10AM (#39259375)
If HBO and all the other content houses would all go to Netflix and say we'll close down our streaming service and license you all our content, and take our share of a household $60/month, everyone would all make more money, but there's negative infinity chance of that happening; on top of Netflix making their own content, so what's the way forwards? He government could step in and say that online distribution platforms can't also make their own non-self-marketing content, but there's also zero chance of that happening either, so it's a tragedy of commons until someone goes bankrupt, and it's not OnlyFans that's going to be the content farm to fail here, so someones is going to have to buy everyone else until the DoJ gets involved for antitrust reasons, and then we're left with two subscription services (US consumers aren't properly able to count higher than that. Apple vs Google, Democrats vs Republicans, McDonald's vs Burger King, CVS vs Walgreens, AT&T vs Verizon, etc)
Re:Netflix: Piracy is difficult to compete against and growi... by AnthonyMouse on Monday February 05, 2024 @05:37AM (#39259586)
> McDonald's vs Burger King

Yum! Brands (KFC, Pizza Hut, Taco Bell, etc.) is slightly larger than Restaurant Brands International (Burger King). McDonald's is larger than both of them put together. Or if you want brands rather than corporations, there are a zillion burger chains.

> CVS vs Walgreens

Rite Aid and Walmart, among others.

> AT&T vs Verizon

The US wireless carrier with the largest market cap is T-Mobile, with only slightly fewer users than Verizon. There are also many smaller ones.

> Democrats vs Republicans

This isn't a result of consumer preferences, it's a result of the first past the post voting system creating a powerful incentive for the most similar parties to merge until there are only two left. (Score voting fixes this.)

> Apple vs Google

This is the only real market duopoly here, and it's the one they have to worry about.

Either they can license their content to multiple services so it's convenient for customers to subscribe to one service and get everything, or those two companies will eventually figure out a way to get the same effect and most likely end up sucking in 30% of their industry's revenue in the process.

Re:Netflix: Piracy is difficult to compete against and growi... by Izkata on Monday February 05, 2024 @06:23PM (#39268597)
> If HBO and all the other content houses would all go to Netflix and say we'll close down our streaming service and license you all our content, and take our share of a household $60/month, everyone would all make more money

That's how it used to work. They all started making their own platforms and pulling content off of Netflix because they thought they could get the same numbers as Netflix and keep all the payments instead of whatever slice Netflix was giving them.

Re:Netflix: Piracy is difficult to compete against and growi... by vineyardmike on Sunday February 04, 2024 @11:11PM (#39257211)
Let’s not forget that “music solved this” ignores the fact that Spotify is not profitable, and may never be due to the record labels cut. Apple Music, Amazon Music and YouTube Music may or may not be profitable but are undoubtedly subsidized by their corporate parents.

Not sure if Tidal is profitable but they aren’t popular and are much more expensive than people are generally willing to spend. It’s also potentially subsidized by a corporate parent.

There’s also a trail of unprofitable or tiny businesses like SoundCloud and Bandcamp that may or may not survive quarter to quarter.

It’s not a solved problem.

Re:Netflix: Piracy is difficult to compete against and growi... by shzhdbi09gv8ioi on Sunday February 04, 2024 @11:47PM (#39257461)
> Spotify is not profitable

Their stock value doubled in the last year

Their CEO Daniel Ek is worth 3.7 billion dollar.

Re:Netflix: Piracy is difficult to compete against and growi... by TheCapeGreek on Monday February 05, 2024 @12:30AM (#39257680)
Both of those numbers are not profit numbers.
Re:Netflix: Piracy is difficult to compete against and growi... by roenxi on Monday February 05, 2024 @02:29AM (#39258297)
I wouldn't want to be involved in a company that isn't turning a profit.

But, in fairness, this is an industry that is adjacent to Hollywood. It is conceivable that they have some sort of weird profit-laundering scheme going to make sure not too much of the money goes back to the artists or something.

Re:Netflix: Piracy is difficult to compete against and growi... by vineyardmike on Monday February 05, 2024 @02:53AM (#39258423)
Profit and loss can be accounting fiction when needed (eg Amazon), but I think Spotify has the cartel curse. No matter how much money they make, it’s too easy for the labels to see the public finances of Spotify and decide they want to raise the price of licensing. Furthermore, the more people use Spotify, the less profitable the subscription becomes.
Re:Netflix: Piracy is difficult to compete against and growi... by Izkata on Monday February 05, 2024 @07:07PM (#39268983)
Sounds more like they're riding the line and do sometimes make a profit:

> The company posted a third-quarter operating income of 32 million euros ($34.1 million), its first quarterly profit since 2021, helped by a higher gross margin and lower marketing and personnel costs.

https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/spotifys-user...

Re:Netflix: Piracy is difficult to compete against and growi... by acdha on Sunday February 04, 2024 @07:11PM (#39255889)
I’m not sure it has to be exclusive: some people are inveterate freeloaders but most of us understand that the artists have to get paid.

The problem feels a lot like the situation MoviePass worked themselves into where they priced it unsustainably low but cheap money allowed that to run long enough to train a generation of customers that their content was only worth that much. I imagine Netflix would dearly love to say that your subscription includes a certain number of movies but you can add on more, or that there’s a premium tier, etc. but there isn’t an easy way to try something like that now that everyone is used to the current model.

The other side of the problem is that studios really don’t want market pricing. Subscriptions are banking on the idea that you’ll still pay $12/month and find something else to watch even if the big series/movie they’re promoting isn’t very good, and they’re keeping the prices for rentals really high which makes means people are often looking at 1-2 months of streaming charges for a single movie rental.

The combination of the two seems likely to make a lot of people pirating for years to come. Most people do not want to juggle multiple services and if they’ve learned how to pirate anything once it’s always going to be there the next time someone jacks up prices or plays games with availability. I think that’s going to last until someone has the courage to let services like YouTube or AppleTV offer rentals of everything at reasonable prices.

Re:Netflix: Piracy is difficult to compete against and growi... by Geisterde on Sunday February 04, 2024 @09:17PM (#39256549)
Which could be rapidly eclipsed, my synology nas is capable of following RSS feeds for new content, torrenting that content, and serving that content through my plex with audio options, subtitles, descriptions, cover art, ratings, age restrictions etc. (All behind a vpn of course)

If I invested a weekend (4 days, maybe 2-3 weekends...) I could probably figure it out, and never ever ever again deal with the BS streaming services. It takes one person pissed off that they missed Ozark and that will be 1 click install, game on, open source tech only ever moves forward, its antifragile, unlike any individual business.

Re:Netflix: Piracy is difficult to compete against and growi... by prepend on Sunday February 04, 2024 @09:39PM (#39256680)
You need to invest about 10 minutes. It’s not complicated at all and makes a much better experience.
Re:Netflix: Piracy is difficult to compete against and growi... by hedora on Sunday February 04, 2024 @10:14PM (#39256882)
Setting it up properly probably takes a day or so.

Which HDDs should you put in the synology (or are there SSDs that make more sense; need to check $/GB…)? Which VPN service makes the most sense? Which RSS thingy is as good as Prime, Netflix, HBO, etc, etc, combined?

Re:Netflix: Piracy is difficult to compete against and growi... by fragmede on Monday February 05, 2024 @05:13AM (#39259395)
Only if you over-optimize and get decision paralysis. Perfect is the enemy of the good. Cheapest is the enemy of actually-have-it-and-working.
Re:Netflix: Piracy is difficult to compete against and growi... by prepend on Monday February 05, 2024 @06:38AM (#39260103)
Good point. I assumed the synology was already set up as a NAS.

That takes a while.

Setting up the rss is just minutes.

Re:Netflix: Piracy is difficult to compete against and growi... by pdimitar on Monday February 05, 2024 @06:34AM (#39260075)
Are there good step-by-step guides? I am on the fence but researching this seems exhausting so far.
Re:Netflix: Piracy is difficult to compete against and growi... by Aeolun on Monday February 05, 2024 @06:52AM (#39260220)
There’s a whole ream of linuxserver docker images in the sonarr family that you can run on one machine. I’m sure someone made a docker-compose somewhere.
Re:Netflix: Piracy is difficult to compete against and growi... by HumblyTossed on Sunday February 04, 2024 @09:21PM (#39256576)
So pay for several services and then pirate the content because it’s just more convenient. Best of both worlds. You’ve paid and you get the content in the form(s) you need.
Re:Netflix: Piracy is difficult to compete against and growi... by humpydumpy on Monday February 05, 2024 @10:47AM (#39262355)
and you have finanically supported services that offer shitty usability
Re:Netflix: Piracy is difficult to compete against and growi... by HumblyTossed on Monday February 05, 2024 @11:41AM (#39263183)
It's going to be shitty if I pay or not. Probably even shittier if I don't pay. Either way, I've solutioned around that problem.
Re:Netflix: Piracy is difficult to compete against and growi... by doctorpangloss on Sunday February 04, 2024 @11:22PM (#39257290)
> But that means companies must sell for the marginal price of their website’s ergonomics, not for the marginal price of producing movies.

But that means companies must also realize the tech industry is a really bad business for 99% of companies in it.

Re:Netflix: Piracy is difficult to compete against and growi... by lupusreal on Monday February 05, 2024 @05:51AM (#39259697)
The movie industry is enormously wasteful, they could easily make the same movies with 10x less money if they cut out a fraction of their waste and corruption.

Anyway, it's not my problem. It's their problem.