The is a reason why LVMH (Moët Hennessy Louis Vuitton) is one of the most successful and valuable companies in the world.
I'm not saying it's easy. Any business endeavor, regardless of product market fit, still requires execution. Easier said than done, but many an entrepreneur has proven their critics wrong.
Americans are known for their willingness to take business risk and fail then pick themselves up and try again. Makes life exciting and worth living.
But that said, I'm not going to buy "American Made" just because it is, i'm going to buy "Quality Made" and if it happens to be a domestic manufacturer than all the better!
Are you saying there is a proven market for luxury toasters?
While in general this is true I think "premium" grade home appliances generally top out around twice the cost of mid-range (I'm thinking vacuums, ovens, refrigerators etc where you compare similar capacity). This probably isn't a sufficient premium to cover the overheads.
Coffee machines are probably an exception here.
I'm not educated about the toaster market - are they more like microwaves or more like coffee machines?
There’s a proven luxury market for literally anything. Just look at the $399 Wolf Toaster, which coincidentally is made in the U.S. This is the same brand that makes the famous Wolf Ranges.
https://wolfgourmet.com/store/countertop-appliances/four-sli...
It’s pretty ugly considering the price.
I just learned about Dualit because of this thread, they make something very similar to the vision I have in my head, except it’s made in the UK instead of the US.
I was picturing basically recreating something like the Sunbeam T-20.
I got a vintage Sunbeam toaster recently, and in the process I found this guy who restores vintage Sunbeam toasters for almost $300!
That's not including the toaster itself, which generally runs somewhere around $100 on eBay.
It makes me wonder if it's a better business to restore old toasters (and even other kitchen gear) rather than to make new ones. I haven't used his services ($300 is quite a bit more than I'd like to spend), but it seems like he goes to great lengths to fix up these toasters, even ordering custom power cords from a wire supplier. I bet it would be easier to start off recreating some replacement parts rather than manufacturing a whole toaster.
This is great!
How to design an actually good toaster with lessons from the 1940's
From Technology Connections:
It happens.
> It’s pretty ugly considering the price.
Aesthetic is very subjective, people probably purchase the Wolf toaster because the red knobs match their Wolf stove. That said it is very modern and if you also made an art deco stove to match the toaster you’re imagining you may have found a new market.
> I just learned about Dualit because of this thread, they make something very similar to the vision I have in my head, except it’s made in the UK instead of the US.
Dualit is a great brand with a great product.
> I was picturing basically recreating something like the Sunbeam T-20.
To be fair the Dualit reminds me of a more modern Sunbeam.
Really if you have the time and the resources to manufacture a toaster, do it, expect a failure, and if it’s successful great, at the very least you’ll have learned something new.
My toaster cost like $30 or something and it still works fine after 10 years. I didn't even research it, just grabbed a random one at a store.
"Normal" isn't a particularly useful label here, and Vitamix aren't 8-10x when you compare like-for-like (in terms of capacity and other features).
The Wirecutter recommendations[1] (which is a pretty decent way of seeing what the market is like) are:
Our Pick: Vitamix 5200, $397
Runner Up ("A more-affordable but less-durable blender"): Oster Versa Pro Series Blender, $280
Also Great: Cleanblend Blender, $165
Budget pick: KitchenAid K150 3 Speed Ice Crushing Blender, $100
This is the typical market dynamic. The high end (Vitamix) is a bit more than twice the mid-range option, and then there is a long tail going way way down.
I agree a $1300 blender (ie, 8 * $165) is a luxury play. But Vitamix seems more just a normal high-end quality play rather than luxury. Their most expensive blender is $729 list price[2] but comes with a bunch of extra features (wireless jug detection?!) to justify the cost. Luxury brands don't try to justify costs: the cost is the feature.
[1] https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-blender/
[2] https://www.vitamix.com/us/en_us/shop/smart-system-blenders
Having the world's largest pool of investment capital and one of the most liberal bankruptcy systems in the world also helps. If there's anything Americans are more willing to do than risk losing their own money, it's to risk losing other people's money :)
> The is a reason why LVMH (Moët Hennessy Louis Vuitton) is one of the most successful and valuable companies in the world.
It very much isn't because they sell premium quality products. They sell luxury products. Luxury branding has very little to do with product quality or performance. Also, the US doesn't have a competitive advantage in manufacturing home appliances. They actually have a competitive disadvantage, as the most capable manufacturing capacity for these products doesn't exist in the US anymore.
This!! 100% true.
For luxury products the cost is the feature.
Premium grade != Made in USA
Here's a $200+ toaster I was seriously considering buying at one point. It is not made in the USA, and most made-in-USA stuff sucks honestly
https://www.amazon.com/Mitsubishi-Electric-ST1-T-Toaster-ult...
Who wants a $75+ toaster just because it was "Made In USA"? Is it going to make toast better than a $15 toaster "Hecho In Mexico" or whatever other country? Even making the infrastructure to make a toaster would not do much in the way of increasing the manufacturing abilities in the US. What could it do if the War Powers Act were invoked?
Or, am I just way too much of a simpleton to be able to see potential?
Not because I need that, I just enjoy overly heavy things
https://www.amazon.com/Tungsten-Cube-1-5-One-Kilo/dp/B00XZBI...
- was made in a free Democratic country
- is of quality
I often pay a premium for such items.
I have a 4 slice Dualit[1] I bought in 2004 and it still works perfectly.
It's an unchanging point of reliability in our kitchen.
The Classic model is basically an old catering toaster design from the 1950s. So it has "anti-features" that make it suitable for a commercial setting where you're making lots of toast to order. e.g. you can pop the bread to check it without resetting the timer and there's no spring to wear out.
As far as I'm concerned the high quality toaster, made in a free democratic country, is a solved problem.
Why is this important to you? If civilians are oppressed by a government, I'm all the MORE willing to support the civilians to do what they want to be doing, and if making the world's best toaster is what they want to be doing I will more than happily pay them for it and help them live the life they want in spite of whatever regime they are in.
It wasn't their fault they were born into a political mess and while I understand the desire to financially hurt oppressive regimes, I'm not in favor of doing so in ways that also punish civilians who are just trying to live a happy life.
If anything, you'd build a plant in Mexico to do that stuff, then put it together here, like most appliance manufacturers do.
There's a market. Not big perhaps. But it needs to be more than just 'made in America'.
There’s a market for knit hats made in the USA. I doubt the quality assurance or price could compete with a factory from Asia, but they still sell. Partly because Americans want to support American businesses. Not the same as a toaster, but I can see consumer demand being similar.
Sure, some people will still buy it, but it will be a tiny fraction of those who said they wanted the product.
Don't forget, when you buy a toaster from China, you're basically making them bleed and sweat on it for nothing more than your currency they can only use to buy back stuff from you, if you'll allow it. It's a very good deal, so good US consumers should increase their chinese imports rather than decrease it. Or next thing they know, they'll be the ones sweating in sweatshops soldering around toasters for capital-rich Shanghaiese.
I've got more than decade of experience in designing products that are built in North America. I wouldn't touch a project like this unless it had a team of people with the proven manufacturing experience heading it up and some very convincing numbers about the commercial viability of the product because I don't believe they exist. There is good reason why the market only has commercial kitchen grade devices available.