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Re:75% of the world’s industrial fishing vessels are hidden ... by stevehawk on Thursday January 04, 2024 @10:06AM (#38867842)
> The other is privacy.

True in the aviation world. I've noticed that most people under, say, 50 or so, like ADS-B (airplanes broadcasting their location) for the safety reasons. But most of the pilots over 50 will say "It's just the government coming up with another way to track you."

Re:75% of the world’s industrial fishing vessels are hidden ... by ericbarrett on Thursday January 04, 2024 @10:26AM (#38868070)
There's some yahoo who buzzes my house twice a week in a Cessna (coming and going). He's often under 500' AGL. No ADS-B and haven't gotten a tail number yet. I think it should be illegal to not have it enabled, for exactly this kind of thing.

In fact I wonder if it's even a licensed pilot—William Bushling apparently flew for 20 years without a current FAA license and also didn't use ADS-B; when he finally lost the dice game it took them days to find the wreckage: https://youtu.be/69NvK6YbNtg

Re:75% of the world’s industrial fishing vessels are hidden ... by peterleiser on Thursday January 04, 2024 @10:58AM (#38868532)
Try contacting local small airports for information. Also, flight plans are apparently public record and available upon request.
Re:75% of the world’s industrial fishing vessels are hidden ... by knodi123 on Thursday January 04, 2024 @02:11PM (#38870981)
Flight plans are not required if you're just out flying VFR. Someone who doesn't like ADS-B probably also doesn't call uncle sam and tell him where he plans to fly.
Re:75% of the world’s industrial fishing vessels are hidden ... by SushiHippie on Thursday January 04, 2024 @12:08PM (#38869483)
Do you have your own ADS-B receiver or how do you know it doesn't have ADS-B?
Re:75% of the world’s industrial fishing vessels are hidden ... by cronix on Thursday January 04, 2024 @12:55PM (#38870117)
You can track them with sites like FlightAware or FlightRadar24. Just zoom in to where your house is. Click on a plane. If it's not on the map, it likely isn't broadcasting ADSB

https://www.flightaware.com/

https://www.flightradar24.com

Re:75% of the world’s industrial fishing vessels are hidden ... by ericbarrett on Thursday January 04, 2024 @01:56PM (#38870808)
They aren't visible on these sites, first thing I checked. Maybe they've requested delisting but I think they're just not broadcasting—specifically to avoid consequences of their reckless flying.
Re:75% of the world’s industrial fishing vessels are hidden ... by SushiHippie on Thursday January 04, 2024 @03:37PM (#38871928)
As others have noted these commercial services don't show every plane, the owners of planes may request to hide their planes there, that's why I asked how you can be sure.

Other sites like https://globe.adsbexchange.com or https://globe.adsb.fi don't filter aircrafts, they even show military planes (well, if they have ADS-B enabled). Though they don't have coverage above oceans, as satellite ads-b is expensive. (These sites look nearly the same, as they both use tar1090 as the webui, but they may have different coverage)

These sites, may sometimes have less coverage, as the sites you mentioned are way more popular. But if your area has coverage by these sites, you can be sure that you'll see every plane if it has ADS-B.

You could even replay, if you know the time and date when the plane passed, by appending ?replay to the URL.

e.g. https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?replay

Re:75% of the world’s industrial fishing vessels are hidden ... by ericbarrett on Saturday January 06, 2024 @08:54PM (#38897589)
Thanks, this is great info!
Re:75% of the world’s industrial fishing vessels are hidden ... by netsharc on Thursday January 04, 2024 @03:42PM (#38871967)
Laser pointers mounted on auto-aiming platforms, connected to the ADS-B servers.. no ADS-B data? Aim, fire!
Re:75% of the world’s industrial fishing vessels are hidden ... by sandworm101 on Thursday January 04, 2024 @07:16PM (#38874056)
No. Big crime. FAA calls FBI. FBI calls local PD. Men in black. Door kicked in. Handcuffs. General bad vibes.
Re:75% of the world’s industrial fishing vessels are hidden ... by callalex on Thursday January 04, 2024 @03:14PM (#38871671)
ADSBExchange is more complete (at least in my area).
Re:75% of the world’s industrial fishing vessels are hidden ... by RF_Savage on Friday January 05, 2024 @01:49AM (#38876473)
These services rely on volunteers setting up receivers and feeding them data. It is entirely possible that there is just no local coverage that would receive the low flying aircraft.

A 30usd rtl-sdr dongle is enough to receive local ads-b signals, if one wants to test it.

Re:75% of the world’s industrial fishing vessels are hidden ... by kridsdale1 on Thursday January 04, 2024 @11:38AM (#38869075)
Have you tried a super long telephoto lens? If you got like 100 photos in a row you might be able to use some kind of software to blend them and infer the number.
Re:75% of the world’s industrial fishing vessels are hidden ... by ericbarrett on Thursday January 04, 2024 @01:59PM (#38870855)
It's only been a couple times a week on random days and times; I'd basically have to camp on my roof to catch them. And they're going full tilt (at least 90 knots) so there's only 5-10 seconds of opportunity. I do have a pretty good long lens on my digital camera, maybe I'll set it up and have it by the door.
Re:75% of the world’s industrial fishing vessels are hidden ... by callalex on Thursday January 04, 2024 @11:43AM (#38869141)
Start writing down the exact time of the events, that way you can piece it together without having to sprint outside with binoculars.
Re:75% of the world’s industrial fishing vessels are hidden ... by Baeocystin on Thursday January 04, 2024 @06:38PM (#38873770)
When I started paying attention to airspace as part of my 107 drone cert, the amount of extreme bullshit flight behavior out of the two local small fields genuinely surprised me. It makes me think it's no wonder general aviation has so many accidents.

(The fields are San Martin and Watsonville in the Bay Area, FWIW.)

Re:75% of the world’s industrial fishing vessels are hidden ... by stevehawk on Thursday January 04, 2024 @10:07PM (#38875254)
do you live near an airport?
Re:75% of the world’s industrial fishing vessels are hidden ... by ericbarrett on Thursday January 04, 2024 @11:11PM (#38875611)
Nope.
Re:75% of the world’s industrial fishing vessels are hidden ... by stevehawk on Tuesday January 09, 2024 @04:11PM (#38932163)
4 days late on this but - if an airfcraft is in a sparsely populated area then it is allowed to be below 500' AGL so long as it is 500' away from "person, vessel, vehicle, or structure." This rule is suspended if the aircraft is in the process of taking off or landing (includes "flying the pattern"). I don't know where you live, so it may not apply to you. If you're in a rural-ish area, the person could be taking off from their own land or an airport you're not aware of.
Re:75% of the world’s industrial fishing vessels are hidden ... by jMyles on Thursday January 04, 2024 @10:10AM (#38867889)
I'd love to hear a genuine argument from someone, of any age, who is anti-ADS-B.

I don't understand the impetus to allow someone to fly a massive, deadly hunk of metal over a community without clarifying their telemetry to that community.

I think it's an act of wanton corruption that law enforcement is now exempt from this requirement in some situations.

Re:75% of the world’s industrial fishing vessels are hidden ... by pc86 on Thursday January 04, 2024 @11:16AM (#38868778)
There is no legitimate argument against ADS-B other than "I don't wanna." Not to say that that isn't legitimate and doesn't at least deserve a discussion, but that's really it. There's really no Constitutional or statutory argument against requiring ADS-B.
Re:75% of the world’s industrial fishing vessels are hidden ... by forward1 on Thursday January 04, 2024 @11:25AM (#38868884)
> There's really no Constitutional or statutory argument against requiring ADS-B.

You could argue it's not a very good one, but it does exist:

"This rulemaking provides an exception to ADS–B requirements, removing the transmission requirement for sensitive operations conducted by Federal, State and local government entities in matters of national defense, homeland security, intelligence and law enforcement."

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2019-07-18/pdf/2019-1...

Re:75% of the world’s industrial fishing vessels are hidden ... by pc86 on Thursday January 04, 2024 @11:31AM (#38868961)
Yeah I probably wasn't clear in that I meant I'm not aware of any legal basis for saying that requiring ADS-B for private/commercial air traffic is wrong. For example operating a 172 is not a constitutional right so tracking you while you do isn't isn't necessarily a violation of any particular right.

I think it's wrong that the government exempts themselves from it if they're going to require it of everyone else, but that's so far down my list of grievances with the government it's barely worth thinking about :)

Re:75% of the world’s industrial fishing vessels are hidden ... by nerdponx on Thursday January 04, 2024 @10:29AM (#38868111)
Food for thought: what about driving a massive deadly hunk of metal through a community?
Re:75% of the world’s industrial fishing vessels are hidden ... by vladms on Thursday January 04, 2024 @10:45AM (#38868341)
To progress in the same direction: what about having a static deadly hunk of metal at second floor of your house?

The point I am trying to make: most of things flying seem more dangerous (higher speed, higher reach, different fuel) than cars.

Re:75% of the world’s industrial fishing vessels are hidden ... by nerdponx on Thursday January 04, 2024 @11:20AM (#38868818)
> most of things flying seem more dangerous

And yet somehow flying is safer than driving! As a sibling comment mentions, a lot of that has to do with all of the safety controls in place.

My point is that driving at modern speeds in modern vehicles is actually pretty dangerous, even if not as dangerous as aviation, and yet we as a society exercise very little oversight over the activity.

There are good reasons to not have "ADS-B for cars", mostly related to privacy. Unlike flying, many people heavily rely on cars to carry out their day-to-day activities. But I think it's at least worth thinking about.

Re:75% of the world’s industrial fishing vessels are hidden ... by pc86 on Thursday January 04, 2024 @11:33AM (#38868987)
Commercial aviation is safer than driving. General aviation is no safer than riding a motorcycle, and may be even more dangerous, so it is definitely not safer than driving. And the people complaining about ADS-B are going to be almost exclusively grumpy old guys flying around in J3 cubs.
Re:75% of the world’s industrial fishing vessels are hidden ... by BoThrowAway on Thursday January 04, 2024 @01:11PM (#38870294)
Man, that discussion has been around for a long, long time- I'm a grumpy old guy that's been riding motorcycles of one type or another since I was 11, and flying since I was 16. Btw, I'm a huge fan of both ADS-B as well as TCAS... TCAS when I'm flying, ADS-B when I get to watch my son training at Navy Corpus.

Hanging around FBOs/flight lines/bars with pilots that also ride, it's come down to this:

After countless attempts and arguments while trying to normalize accident/fatal accident rates by converting hours flown/miles ridden, statistics do support that GA does seem to be a bit more dangerous than riding.

That having been said, my opinion is that most of the GA risks are in the hands of the pilot, while most of the risks of riding are external to the rider. Most of the worst motorcycle accidents I've seen or heard of involved the rider getting schwacked by a car or truck, while most of the worst GA accidents involved the pilot schwacking him or herself with poor judgement and/or skills that are below MIF. I put a lot of effort into minimizing pilot-induced risk when I fly, so scientifically speaking and all, I -feel- safer when flying than riding, and probably am.

Re:75% of the world’s industrial fishing vessels are hidden ... by grogenaut on Thursday January 04, 2024 @08:00PM (#38874391)
Could you please reference some stats? I've googled before and have never been able to find motorcycle / GA stats... right now your comment sounds like someone quoting a nurse/doctor friend saying "donorcycles"
Re:75% of the world’s industrial fishing vessels are hidden ... by OJFord on Thursday January 04, 2024 @11:23AM (#38868856)
Well yeah, number plates?
Re:75% of the world’s industrial fishing vessels are hidden ... by yreg on Thursday January 04, 2024 @01:56PM (#38870809)
I don't think that's comparable since there is no rideradar24 where you could check out every ride anyone takes with their car. Also, who owns which plate is not public information.

I believe that plenty of people would object to that level of tracking citing privacy reasons.

(I'm not against ADS-B myself.)

Re:75% of the world’s industrial fishing vessels are hidden ... by OJFord on Friday January 05, 2024 @02:46AM (#38876729)
True, I suppose that is more like the tail call signs it whatever they're called - only recorded (possibly automatically like ANPR) if someone bothers too, not broadcasted or squawked and ident'd.
Re:75% of the world’s industrial fishing vessels are hidden ... by OJFord on Saturday January 06, 2024 @10:50AM (#38892387)
I can't bear it: of course I meant 'or whatever' and 'bothers to', typing from mobile.
Re:75% of the world’s industrial fishing vessels are hidden ... by jMyles on Thursday January 04, 2024 @10:58AM (#38868537)
Yeah, I mean, I'm a full-time cyclist, so you won't find a lot of car love from me. :-)

But I do think there's a difference in risk. Aviation has a pretty dang good record, and I think that the tradition of transparency in comms and telemetry is a huge part of that.

Re:75% of the world’s industrial fishing vessels are hidden ... by krisoft on Thursday January 04, 2024 @11:52AM (#38869276)
> Aviation has a pretty dang good record

While this is true about commercial airliners it is not true for general aviation. The safety of general aviation is roughly comparable to motorbikes.

Re:75% of the world’s industrial fishing vessels are hidden ... by jMyles on Thursday January 04, 2024 @01:01PM (#38870187)
Both general aviation and motorbikes have a track record (at least in relative terms) that's pretty good _with respect to injuring or killing third parties_, which I thought was the thrust of the inquiry.
Re:75% of the world’s industrial fishing vessels are hidden ... by arminiusreturns on Thursday January 04, 2024 @10:24AM (#38868047)

    > I think it's an act of wanton corruption that law enforcement is now exempt from this requirement in some situations. 
Black helo's off ads-b for the purposes of intimidation are totally a thing and I agree wholeheartedly.
Re:75% of the world’s industrial fishing vessels are hidden ... by giantg2 on Thursday January 04, 2024 @03:18PM (#38871724)
The only thing I can think of is for individuals who have credible threats against them. It could be easy enough to delay the relay of that information to the general public by 24hrs or something so that the data is available but poses less use to potential threat actors.
Re:75% of the world’s industrial fishing vessels are hidden ... by stavros on Thursday January 04, 2024 @04:24PM (#38872467)
How are you going to delay the relay when anyone with a receiver can just receive and relay the data?
Re:75% of the world’s industrial fishing vessels are hidden ... by mschuster91 on Thursday January 04, 2024 @05:51PM (#38873412)
Hammer down on the aggregators, nothing easier than that.
Re:75% of the world’s industrial fishing vessels are hidden ... by stavros on Thursday January 04, 2024 @05:55PM (#38873457)
Is it as easy as shutting down piracy sites?
Re:75% of the world’s industrial fishing vessels are hidden ... by giantg2 on Friday January 05, 2024 @08:29AM (#38878824)
Probably not with the current tech, but there are lots of ways to do it. You don't need to delay the signal, only the information tied to that signal. If you get away from static identifiers and use something like a rotating RSA key, then the data associated with that key could be released at a later time. Not ideal for transparency unless there's a strict retention/audit process for the gold copy (perhaps one of the few legit use cases for immutable block chain since all identifies should be unique too).
Re:75% of the world’s industrial fishing vessels are hidden ... by defrost on Thursday January 04, 2024 @08:25PM (#38874577)
> ADS-B data is broadcast every half-second on a 1090MHz, digital data link.

For more than a decade I worked airborne geophysical surveying - hundred thousand to a million+ line kilometre grid draping at 80m ground clearance on routes planned in advance.

The planes ran stable known instrument configurations and were calibrated weekly to measure their individual magnetic and radiometric signature.

Aircraft positioning signals on long haul flights Australia -> India -> Fiji -> Mali weren't an issue.

Extraneous non required signalling during grid surveying was an issue.

A reasonable comprimise was to blip a quick position fix at the end of every fourth or fifth 20 kilometre line run (say) ... otherwise no broadcasts during instrument recording times .. and glow in the dark divers watches for the pilots or random chunks of metal casing there one day and gone the next.

Re:75% of the world’s industrial fishing vessels are hidden ... by throw0101d on Thursday January 04, 2024 @02:51PM (#38871409)
> But most of the pilots over 50 will say "It's just the government coming up with another way to track you."

Not wrong, but the tracking is to help with reducing collisions.

That said:

* https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/technology/equipadsb/privacy

You need to go with 1090ES(-only), and not the 'consumer focused' UAT, though.