News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Ferret: A Multimodal Large Language Model by Apple by aaronbrethorst on Saturday December 23, 2023 @12:24PM (#38745979)
Rumors suggest they’re gearing up to make iOS 18 an AI focused release. It’ll be interesting to see if they offer different capabilities for online/offline scenarios, or if their offerings are strictly offline.

Here’s one story to offer some context. There are others. https://archive.is/en3VL

Re:Ferret: A Multimodal Large Language Model by Apple by behnamoh on Saturday December 23, 2023 @12:51PM (#38746285)
> Rumors suggest they’re gearing up to make iOS 18 an AI focused release.

Don't underestimate Apple at disappointing enthusiasts like you and me. We've been hearing many awesome stories about the next thing Apple will do, only to realize their marketing team chose to keep it for future iOS/MBP/iPhone generations to keep the profits high.

Re:Ferret: A Multimodal Large Language Model by Apple by Someone on Saturday December 23, 2023 @03:04PM (#38747638)
Running a LLM on-device alongside other apps (i.e. without it taking up all phone resources), and it being reasonably fast may well require more powerful hardware than they ever sold.

A voice assistant that takes 3 seconds to reply and then takes half a second per word is a nice demo, but not a product Apple wants to sell.

And yes, some people will say they rather have that than nothing on their hardware, but “the Internet” would say iOS 18 is slow, eats battery life, etc, damaging Apple’s brand.

Re:Ferret: A Multimodal Large Language Model by Apple by saagarjha on Sunday December 24, 2023 @03:16AM (#38752059)
Siri is often slower than this…
Re:Ferret: A Multimodal Large Language Model by Apple by baz00 on Saturday December 23, 2023 @01:02PM (#38746400)
I think your expectations are wrong. They sit there in silence with a few leaks here and there and some github projects, people speculate and get all excited about extrapolating those things. Then Apple deliver what works which may or may not be related to it.

What they don't do is sell you a lie a year before release then deliver shit (like every other fucking vendor).

Re:Ferret: A Multimodal Large Language Model by Apple by behnamoh on Saturday December 23, 2023 @04:22PM (#38748362)
> What they don't do is sell you a lie a year before release then deliver shit (like every other fucking vendor).

If you're referring to Google, then you're right. But OpenAI has consistently delivered what they announced pretty quickly. Same with Microsoft. To think that Apple somehow has a secret sauce that helps them surprise everyone is an illusion. They've had 3 years now to show their interest in LLMs, but they're just too conservative to "think different" anymore.

Re:Ferret: A Multimodal Large Language Model by Apple by cpill on Saturday December 23, 2023 @05:00PM (#38748682)
I think LLMs are to inconsistent for Apple's taste, I mean that in both senses. Their perfectionism won't risk bad output, ever, which is impossible for LLMs
Re:Ferret: A Multimodal Large Language Model by Apple by baz00 on Sunday December 24, 2023 @03:40AM (#38752158)
Nowhere near that. They’re a totally unproven tool with a lot of bad side effects. They just don’t want to go to market with that.

I mean they do truly useful stuff already using ML just not LLMs

Re:Ferret: A Multimodal Large Language Model by Apple by zdragnar on Saturday December 23, 2023 @01:15PM (#38746513)
They're plenty capable of delivering garbage. Certain year models of the MacBook pro were inherently faulty. I've had the displeasure of having two of them bought for me at work.

All of Apple's windows software (iTunes, Safari, etc) has been, at best, a barely working port.

I'm assuming they are putting a lot more thought and care into it than the touchbar, crappy keyboards and the rest, but I'm also not holding out much hope either.

Re:Ferret: A Multimodal Large Language Model by Apple by MBCook on Saturday December 23, 2023 @03:00PM (#38747589)
Apple can screw up, no question. But they don’t do the two-year hype cycle thing that just about everyone else does in technology (or video games).

It’s incredibly rare for Apple to publicly talk about things that won’t be selling extremely soon.

The iPhone had to be pronounced because it was going to show up on the FCC website, and obviously Apple wanted to control the message. I suspect the Vision Pro may be similar, but they also wanted developers to start getting ready so they would have software day one.

The only thing I can think of that Apple pre-announced and failed at was the Air Power mat. They said it would be coming out soon after and had to push that a couple times before finally canceling it.

Other than that small exception, if modern (post jobs return) Apple announces something is coming, it will come out and be quite close to what they say.

They don’t pull a Humane AI, Segway, Cyberpunk 2077, or No Man’s Sky.

Re:Ferret: A Multimodal Large Language Model by Apple by pjerem on Saturday December 23, 2023 @02:43PM (#38747426)
Hello MacBook Pro 2016 !
Re:Ferret: A Multimodal Large Language Model by Apple by scarface_74 on Saturday December 23, 2023 @03:33PM (#38747924)
And that Apple /// that Apple released in 1980 was also garbage…
Re:Ferret: A Multimodal Large Language Model by Apple by baz00 on Saturday December 23, 2023 @01:24PM (#38746595)
Since they got rid of Jony, it's been great. That's all I'm saying.
Re:Ferret: A Multimodal Large Language Model by Apple by mpweiher on Saturday December 23, 2023 @02:32PM (#38747321)
Absolutely!

The hardware, that is.

With software, their Come to Jesus moment is still in the future.

(To me, Swift is sort of the Jony correlate on the software side. Doesn't fit perfectly, of course, but very similar "we are perfect who cares about evidence la la la I can't hear you" vibes and results)

Re:Ferret: A Multimodal Large Language Model by Apple by behnamoh on Saturday December 23, 2023 @04:48PM (#38748572)
Yes, they have treated macOS like a toy. It's time they made it a real OS.
Re:Ferret: A Multimodal Large Language Model by Apple by baz00 on Sunday December 24, 2023 @03:42AM (#38752170)
I despise this perspective. It’s pretty much finished. What more crap do you want shovelled onto it?
Re:Ferret: A Multimodal Large Language Model by Apple by dzhiurgis on Saturday December 23, 2023 @04:26PM (#38748389)
This. If there is slightest chance model can say “poop” - they’ll can it
Re:Ferret: A Multimodal Large Language Model by Apple by darthrupert on Saturday December 23, 2023 @02:23PM (#38747222)
My expectation of Apple is that they lurk in the shadows, looking at what others do while perfecting their own thing. Then on the day of release, they'll be a decade ahead of competition.

They've done this a dozen times already.

Re:Ferret: A Multimodal Large Language Model by Apple by antiframe on Saturday December 23, 2023 @02:46PM (#38747454)
Which dozen times has Apple released something decades ahead of the competition? I'm blanking on 4-12.
Re:Ferret: A Multimodal Large Language Model by Apple by cj on Saturday December 23, 2023 @03:31PM (#38747911)
Spotify / Apple Music

Netflix + Hulu / Apple TV+

Generic Earbuds / AirPods

Meta Quest / Apple Vision Pro

(The last one being a hopeful wish)

Re:Ferret: A Multimodal Large Language Model by Apple by cromwellian on Saturday December 23, 2023 @04:16PM (#38748323)
? AppleTV and Apple Music are not decades ahead of anything. AirPods are way better than the existing Bluetooth headsets that were on the market.
Re:Ferret: A Multimodal Large Language Model by Apple by cj on Saturday December 23, 2023 @05:52PM (#38749114)
Maybe they aren’t “decades ahead” but they’re examples of Apple being slow to market, launching very competitive products years after the market was established.

E.g. assuming Apple Vision launches soon, they’ll be “many years behind” Quest from the date of first launch, but most likely miles ahead as far as usability.

Re:Ferret: A Multimodal Large Language Model by Apple by xerxes249 on Saturday December 23, 2023 @03:18PM (#38747780)
64-bit phones is the easy one.
Re:Ferret: A Multimodal Large Language Model by Apple by barfingclouds on Sunday December 24, 2023 @02:20PM (#38755905)
iPhone, Siri
Re:Ferret: A Multimodal Large Language Model by Apple by ignoramous on Saturday December 23, 2023 @04:39PM (#38748493)
> marketing team chose to keep it for future iOS/MBP/iPhone generations to keep the profits high.

VisionPro is nice. I can see costs coming down over a period of time. Also, we've been waiting long enough for that AI car.

Re:Ferret: A Multimodal Large Language Model by Apple by yreg on Sunday December 24, 2023 @03:29AM (#38752112)
Apple has never promised any car. From what is known, project Titan has been cancelled years ago.

The only exeption of not delivering I can recall was AirPower. It's a product they've announced and then embarassingly weren't able to finish up to their standards (or up to what was promised), so they have cancelled it altogether.

Re:Ferret: A Multimodal Large Language Model by Apple by ignoramous on Sunday December 24, 2023 @03:00PM (#38756315)
My point was, it isn't the marketing team why Apple tanks innovative/disruptive/new products.
Re:Ferret: A Multimodal Large Language Model by Apple by georgespencer on Saturday December 23, 2023 @05:51PM (#38749099)
> We've been hearing many awesome stories about the next thing Apple will do, only to realize their marketing team chose to keep it for future iOS/MBP/iPhone generations to keep the profits high.

I believe it's more likely we've heard awesome stories about things Apple will do in the future, only to realize that the average HN commenter is incapable of understanding that such stories are contextless leaks, and that it is far more likely you are operating with incomplete information than Apple's "marketing team" is holding things back for future "iOS/MBP/iPhone generations" to keep their profits high.

I know it's more fun to vomit dumb conspiracies onto the internet, but consider changing "realize" to something which conveys equivocation, because your theory about Apple's marketing team holding back mature technology in order to benefit future devices – in addition to being predicated on leaks and rumors, and risibly inane when you consider that such action would create a significant attack vector for competitors – is as equivocal as the belief that Trump is on a secret mission to destroy a global cabal of pedophiles.

Re:Ferret: A Multimodal Large Language Model by Apple by para_parolu on Saturday December 23, 2023 @12:45PM (#38746229)
I really hope they will make siri usable. In the current state it’s only good for fixed phrases. And even then it fails time to time
Re:Ferret: A Multimodal Large Language Model by Apple by behnamoh on Saturday December 23, 2023 @12:53PM (#38746300)
I hope they get rid of it completely. People on r/locallama and others have made much better assistants using GPT which use iOS APIs to control the phone. It's ridiculous that Apple still hasn't done anything useful regarding Siri.
Re:Ferret: A Multimodal Large Language Model by Apple by ben_w on Saturday December 23, 2023 @01:52PM (#38746889)
I'd be (pleasantly) surprised; look at how long it takes them to allow system apps to get replaced with downloadable 3rd party.

And even then, the activation keyword is likely to be whatever Apple says. Similar logic as 3rd party keyboards, don't want user input to get stuck on even merely potentially untrustworthy or buggy code.

Re:Ferret: A Multimodal Large Language Model by Apple by spookthesunset on Saturday December 23, 2023 @02:01PM (#38747006)
Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t the activation word “special” in that it has to work in very low power states? I always assumed that is why the wake words are fixed, because said words need to “fit” within a very small power budget.
Re:Ferret: A Multimodal Large Language Model by Apple by ben_w on Saturday December 23, 2023 @02:09PM (#38747084)
Could be — I've heard rumours along those lines, but none came with evidence.
Re:Ferret: A Multimodal Large Language Model by Apple by skygazer on Saturday December 23, 2023 @02:59PM (#38747576)
Re:Ferret: A Multimodal Large Language Model by Apple by ben_w on Sunday December 24, 2023 @04:35PM (#38757092)
Thanks :)
Re:Ferret: A Multimodal Large Language Model by Apple by darthrupert on Saturday December 23, 2023 @02:24PM (#38747236)
That's not due to incompetence; that's due to not seeing any reason to do it.
Re:Ferret: A Multimodal Large Language Model by Apple by ben_w on Saturday December 23, 2023 @05:27PM (#38748916)
I was not intending to imply otherwise.
Re:Ferret: A Multimodal Large Language Model by Apple by michelb on Saturday December 23, 2023 @01:43PM (#38746804)
It's been in an 'AI' rewrite for a while now. Pretty sure we'll see something next year.
Re:Ferret: A Multimodal Large Language Model by Apple by astrange on Saturday December 23, 2023 @04:35PM (#38748457)
It's been rewritten several times, people largely don't notice because they don't try using it in different languages. And of course because they want to seem savvy so they repeat impressions from other people's posts, not realizing those posts are years old.
Re:Ferret: A Multimodal Large Language Model by Apple by fodkodrasz on Sunday December 24, 2023 @03:23AM (#38752084)
For me fixed phrases would do it often, I use Siri mostly when driving, but keeps saying for almost any command/query: Sorry I cant do that while you are driving. (other main usecase is setting tea/cooking timers with hands full. this alone makes it pretty useful.)

I guess this won't change, because it is probably for legal reasons, to avoid being sued by some "I just dried my cat in the microwave" style genius after making a car accident (unrelated to Siri, but trying to shift the blame).

Adding support for smaller languages would be nice actually. When its reading out of Hungarian messages loud it sounds incredibly retarded. I always have a great time listening to those and trying to guess the message. :) It would be nice if I could send a message to my significant other about being stuck in traffic in Hungarian. (the iPhone keyboard already does pretty decent voice recognition in the language)

Re:Ferret: A Multimodal Large Language Model by Apple by 0x1ceb00da on Saturday December 23, 2023 @03:00PM (#38747587)
If they do it right, it might make me switch from Android. I've never used iOS before and the only thing I'm able to use Google assistant for is setting alarms, and it can't even delete the alarm I created just now.