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Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by WendyTheWillow on Monday November 06, 2023 @10:38PM (#38172938)
I've always wondered why WeWork didn't operate more on a "franchise" model. Lots of property management companies have empty space that will be empty for a year or two, and the WeWork system is useful to install against, along with its brand, so these management companies should be able to "install" a WeWork for a year or whatever while their space is vacant, to help offset the lost revenue from leases.

Shifting the revenue to a franchise model seems like it solves the majority of their lease issues, and still lets them be useful, even in smaller markets. Their value, IMO, is in the "seamless" experience. Knowing I can paratroop into a city and will have a space to work that's of a consistent quality is great, someone sell me that!

Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by pclmulqdq on Monday November 06, 2023 @10:40PM (#38172956)
Adam Neumann is literally the landlord on most of their best-located places. That's why. WeWork gave his real estate company loans to buy buildings to then rent back to WeWork.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by djbusby on Monday November 06, 2023 @11:00PM (#38173095)
What? That seems...odd?
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by ssnistfajen on Monday November 06, 2023 @11:41PM (#38173330)
This was a big part of the controversy that scuttled their 2019 IPO plan and ousted Neumann from WeWork leadership, along with the toxic workplace accusations and other...volatile things associated with Neumann.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by intvocoder on Monday November 06, 2023 @11:03PM (#38173113)
It’s odd, but he convinced Vision Fund to go along with this. It’s a clever grift, if it’s legal.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by peyton on Monday November 06, 2023 @11:11PM (#38173163)
It’s not self dealing if you really love the building I guess. To be fair it was a matter of time before somebody loaded them up with debt and wiped equity. Might as well do it yourself.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by JumpCrisscross on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @12:25AM (#38173596)
> It’s not self dealing if you really love the building

It’s not self dealing if everyone is on the same page. Neumann didn’t hide any of this. From SoftBank. From the public.

Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by gizmo on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @06:21AM (#38175549)
If a company tanks right after being listed on the public markets -- that is, right after insiders got an opportunity to dump their shares on less informed investors -- most likely a serious financial crime has taken place. A real business doesn't go from a 47bn market cap to zero in ~2 years. It's not sufficient to make generic disclosures to investors that there are substantial risks and that you have an unproven business model and such. If it looks, talks, and walks like a pump & dump scheme it probably is.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by kawhah on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @06:49AM (#38175789)
It's totally still self dealing. It just avoids being fraud.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by libraryatnight on Monday November 06, 2023 @11:09PM (#38173147)
I had to look myself, from wikipedia: "As CEO, Neumann, on multiple occasions purchased buildings and then leased the space back to WeWork.[60] Observers noted this as a potential conflict of interest and one that would not be allowed if WeWork were a public company.[61] During his tenure as CEO of WeWork, Neumann also purchased US$90 million worth of residences, including a 60-acre (24 ha) estate in Westchester County, New York, a 6,000-square-foot (560 m2) condominium near Gramercy Park, two homes in The Hamptons, and a US$21 million mansion in Corte Madera, California.[16]

Neumann launched Flow, a residential real estate startup funded by the venture capital firm Andreessen Horowitz, in August 2022." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Neumann)"

This guy is just a greed engine at full steam!

Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by Vipsy on Monday November 06, 2023 @11:20PM (#38173218)
Its astonishing that Adam Newumann was able to raise hundreds of millions for Flow after all he did at WeWork. At this point you wonder, if VCs are also complacent in these scams. Are they together in scamming the LPs?
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by EdwardDiego on Monday November 06, 2023 @11:26PM (#38173253)
Given a16z's presence in crypto, I reckon so.

Although to be fair, they seemed to be interested in scamming true crypto believers in that space, more than their partners, they'd get a bunch of shitcoins in the ICO and then offload them asap.

Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by vernon99 on Monday November 06, 2023 @11:29PM (#38173264)
Not LPs, but later stage VCs and private equity. It’s a game of musical chairs, you just need to be early in. And A16Z are experts in this, with all their investments in crypto. Def not great for their rep and I’d never raise from them because of this btw.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by lolbase on Monday November 06, 2023 @11:54PM (#38173394)
a16z viewed Neumann very positively, to the point that they asked potential CEOs what they thought of Neumann, and the "correct" answer was to be empathetic that he took a huge swing of the bat.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by Cookingboy on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @12:23AM (#38173583)
If that's true, then it's kinda gross tbh.

What's their advice to Neumann this time?

"I hope you are more discreet this time so your scam lasts long enough for us to exit"???

Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by lolbase on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @12:33AM (#38173633)
This article elaborates on it: https://www.businessinsider.com/interview-venture-capital-jo...

> A candidate who displayed empathy for the entrepreneur would answer the question about Neumann with something like the following, Horowitz said: "He did an unbelievable thing in that he built something that almost nobody has done, which is he built a consumer brand in commercial real estate." The person might add, "He told that story so beautifully that he was able to raise a gigantic amount of money and fund this incredible growing operation."

Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by shalmanese on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @01:18AM (#38173804)
I mean, Ben Horowitz is correct here. In a VC interview context, crapping on Adam Neumann is boring and zero information value which is a negative signal. Being able to fairly evaluate people you have strong emotions for, positive or negative is a key VC trait.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by pclmulqdq on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @02:11AM (#38174048)
I somehow think that Horowitz wouldn't want to hear my honest evaluation of Adam Neumann: He found a set of idiots with money (chiefly Andreesen Horowitz and Softbank) and saw them making dumb trades, so he found a way to put himself on the other side of those trades. To do this, he constructed an "audacious" but ultimately fundamentally dumb business that he could wrap in VC shibboleths, whose principal goal was to collect VC money and funnel it into his pocket. In a way, he is a brilliant exploiter of people like Horowitz.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by shalmanese on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @03:03AM (#38174331)
I mean, if he fails his own test, that’s his problem but the test is the correct one.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by socketcluster on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @07:57AM (#38176221)
Agreed. Anyone can create a company which raises a ton of money and feeds 90% of it back to itself as revenue.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by pclmulqdq on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @11:03AM (#38178440)
I don't think that anyone can do this, at all. I think there's a totally different skillset than it takes to actually run a business than to get money from VCs, and by stripping away the need for that skillset, Adam Neumann really perfected his VC grift game. That doesn't mean that he wasn't exceptionally skilled at it.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by namdnay on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @02:19AM (#38174095)
I’m not sure the evaluation above is “fair”. “Positive” would be a better term

People never like to be told they’re mugs

Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by meheleventyone on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @02:55AM (#38174283)
I suspect it’s more self-serving and they just want to weed out people that would have moral qualms about making gobs of money with a white elephant.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by vintermann on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @03:53AM (#38174653)
But IS this a fair valuation? Was his glamour and charisma really all there was to it?
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by sangnoir on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @12:27AM (#38173607)
> Its astonishing that Adam Newumann was able to raise hundreds of millions for Flow after all he did at WeWork

I'm not astonished: WeWork made VCs lots of money - not counting SoftBank as they were the unsophisticated marks/bag holders.

Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by TheOtherHobbes on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @06:33AM (#38175636)
I'm fairly sure Vision Fund is just a money laundering operation. It takes talent to have such an unbroken record of investment failure.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by brohee on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @04:58AM (#38175071)
More than complacent, complicit.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by CGamesPlay on Monday November 06, 2023 @11:04PM (#38173120)
If this is true, will WeWork's creditors be suing him?
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by vishnugupta on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @12:05AM (#38173474)
It's not as if he was doing it under the wraps or something. He did it in full public glare so creditors (and equity investors) knew exactly what they were getting into.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by dmix on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @12:58AM (#38173719)
If that's the case and he isn't under legal risk then he hit a damn gray hat gold mine. A fool and his money. Idk if it was worth his reputation and company being completely destroyed but many people have risked their (literal) freedom for much much less.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by vishnugupta on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @01:28AM (#38173853)
Yeah; he seems to have done well for himself.

https://www.businessinsider.in/wework-ceo-adam-neumann-has-r...

Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by xen0 on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @05:40AM (#38175316)
I don't think his reputation is so tarnished that he can't get other investors to continue to give him money.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by quickthrower2 on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @02:23AM (#38174111)
How does this work. So he owes money under some terms to Wework. Probably that secured debt can be sold off? And the proceeds of that they get?

Unless it was a 0% fixed interest only for 100 years or something crazy.

Feels like a better scenario than that money spent on parties or a datadog bill.

Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by rainbowzootsuit on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @02:53AM (#38174269)
This is similar to what Eddie Lampert did to Sears' stores.

> 200 Sears locations were sold to a REIT and leased back to the retailer.

https://therealdeal.com/national/2021/10/21/the-man-who-raid...

Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by Scoundreller on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @03:55AM (#38174664)
Seritage is funny since the REIT is public, but Warren Buffett's Berkshire owns much (most? all?) of the secured debt. BH will get paid first at a good rate at relatively low risk, while public investors really take a (highly leveraged) chance (and have been getting hosed after initially being drawn in by a high yield).

I understand they're currently liquidating it, TBD if the common stock investors see anything left after BH gets paid back (and then preferred stock holders, currently trading pretty close to par)

edit: REIT has been converted into a C-Corp, possibly to carry-forward losses better as it becomes not-a-Sears-property owner? https://therealdeal.com/new-york/2022/07/08/seritage-growth-...

Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by refurb on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @05:08AM (#38175124)
It’s not that odd. It frees up a ton of cash.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by chollida1 on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @08:42AM (#38176590)
That's not really comparable at all.

Most retailers, banks, and companies realized that owning realestate is not part of their core competency. Canadian tire rolled their realestate into a REIT and then rents the locations back.

There's no double dealing or anything nefarious about it. Heck there is a huge company called Brookfield that has made a living out of buying commercial realestate from companies and renting it back to them while spining the realestate out into a REIT.

That's just smart business for the company who gets money upfront and a stable knowing rental price.

Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by angus-prune on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @05:58PM (#38184275)
I agree it's common and not underhanded. But it's not always smart business.

Most commercial tenants are still resonsibile for maintenance, which is the primary ongoing expertise.

It can be a useful way to free up capital, but only useful if it's used to expand the business and deliver a greater return.

Too often it's used to artificially increase the share price or pay out dividend. In these cases the company commits to never ending rent payments for no actual benefit.

There are whole bunch of businesses who have bucked this MBA trend, kept their freeholds and have ended up with a more resilient business better able to weather a change of economic circumstances.

Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by AdamN on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @04:34AM (#38174907)
He also asserted ownership of the trademark on 'We' and licensed it to the company for 'We Work' :-)
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by nvm0n2 on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @09:22AM (#38177023)
Adam is that you? :)
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by AdamN on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @09:47AM (#38177357)
Different Adam ...
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by angus-prune on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @05:44PM (#38184126)
Iirc, following the entirely justified backlash he had to back down from that and surrendered the trademark to the wework.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by apendleton on Monday November 06, 2023 @10:43PM (#38172979)
It seems like for that to work, you'd need to be mostly reliant on day-pass-type customers rather than longer-term ones -- if I were looking for a permanent arrangement to house a small team, say, I'm not sure I'd want to sign with someplace I knew was only going to last until they found a permanent tenant. But I think the day-pass people, in practice, are a pretty small percentage of total revenue.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by mumblemumble on Monday November 06, 2023 @10:47PM (#38173006)
Regus has been selling that for ages and ages. They have more locations in more cities in more countries, too. If they're not as well-known, I'm guessing it's because they're just a boring old real estate company and not a SoftBank-fueled moon rocket.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by ecshafer on Monday November 06, 2023 @10:56PM (#38173066)
Does Regus sell that? I just did a search for a coworking space on Regus website and it matches my earlier experience: they want me to get a quote and talk 1:1 with an advisor. Wework I can just pay for a 1 day pass at a location purely online. So its so much easier to use when traveling or if you need adhoc coworking.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by mumblemumble on Monday November 06, 2023 @11:10PM (#38173157)
I guess it's a little hard to find from their home page because the top search widget thingy is for longer-term reservations, but if you scroll down and choose the "coworking" tab, there's a tile for coworking day passes with a link you can click for the reservation page.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by aodin on Monday November 06, 2023 @11:20PM (#38173217)
Yes, there are hot desk memberships on their coworking page [1], including single day purchases. They're underneath the giant "get a quote" call to action, however, which is indicative of their priorities.

[1] https://www.regus.com/en-us/coworking

Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by karlshea on Monday November 06, 2023 @11:43PM (#38173339)
Well, they’re also not bankrupt so maybe those are the right priorities.

Edit: haha j/k they also went bankrupt.

Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by ashtonbaker on Monday November 06, 2023 @11:56PM (#38173407)
I went to one of these this summer and had to create a full corporate account online before the people at the front desk could sell me a day pass, and I was bombarded with emails for months afterwards about signing up the rest of my "company"
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by vel0city on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @12:20AM (#38173567)
I went to a wework for the first time today and they technically set up a whole corporate account for just me to be there for one day to try it out.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by offices on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @05:10AM (#38175139)
Today? Was this disaster tourism?
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by mbreese on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @08:05AM (#38176282)
They are in chapter 11, which is aimed at reorganizing a company. They hope to still be a business going forward.

For customers, it should still be relatively the same service. I expect some amenities to change, but you should still be able to rent a desk (for at least the near term).

Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by vel0city on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @10:37AM (#38178013)
As mbreeze stated, this location is probably going to continue operating as some form of coworking space even if it gets spun off of wework, which it may or it may not. There were a lot of people there, I imagine that location is probably cash flow positive. It would make sense for someone to operate it, as there was clearly demand at least at that location.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by mianos on Monday November 06, 2023 @11:56PM (#38173404)
That is the good part about We-Work. Regus is very old school. The one I went into earlier in the year seemed to have been fitted out with plastic wood grain panels from the 70s. That's said, Regus is still running and WeWork is in Chapter 11. Plastic wood grain is fine for the price and the lack of bullshit add-ons like an extra stool.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by keiferski on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @12:52AM (#38173695)
I can only speak for Regus locations in Europe, but all of the ones I’ve visited have been new and modern, if a little office-drone boring. But frankly after being at a WeWork beforehand, I prefer the Regus blandness to the fake enthusiasm and brightly colored furniture.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by pclmulqdq on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @01:01AM (#38173731)
Competition from WeWork seems to have gotten Regus to up their game. Like you said, it's still bland and corporate, but the quality of the spaces is pretty good.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by keiferski on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @01:08AM (#38173765)
They also seem to have a relationship with a nicer service called Spaces, but I’m not sure what the connection is exactly. Spaces seemed like a direct WeWork competitor to me.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by jnwatson on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @01:28AM (#38173848)
The parent company of Regus owns Spaces.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by timthelion on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @03:36AM (#38174551)
I work with a company that has a spaces subscription and their location in Prague has so many weird rules and ways to squeese money out of both the workers and the company that I find the office to be downright unpleasant.

You're not allowed to eat food or bring your own drinks into the common areas because they want you to pay for their overpriced coffee and sandwitches. The coworking space closes at 5 and you have to leave. It opens at 8:30 and you can't enter before then. They will randomly close half the common area because someone rented it for a party. In the private office there are no power outlets at the desk. There is exactly one hookup place in the middle of the floor and we have extention cables everywhere. Despite paying (way above market) for a private office only a limited number of preaproved people are allowed to use it, anyone extra has to have a spaces subscription too. Despite allegedly renting the private office we are not allowed to use our own furnature, or electronics, or place anything on the walls (we can, but this would be paid extra).

Overall, it looks nice and has a nice view but once you see the rulebook it becomes an extremely unwelcoming experience.

Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by keiferski on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @03:54AM (#38174656)
Yeah my only experience with Spaces is that I stumbled into one while traveling, assuming it was a Regus location. They let me use it anyway, although I think it’s technically a separate membership.

I do have a dedicated desk in a standard Regus location and for the most part, it’s fine. Unlimited access 24:7, clean kitchen, etc. Unlike WeWork, the coffee machine isn’t free and there isn’t an on-site barista, but I don’t care about that anyway. No weird rules about food or anything else.

Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by munk-a on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @06:23AM (#38175564)
My protip for anyone who has arbitrary food or drink restrictions is to come with dietary restrictions - as soon as you ask for a low sodium vegan gluten free sandwich the company will give you a hall pass to bring your own food in.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by footy on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @07:09AM (#38175914)
I've shared this tip with so many people after actually going vegan and noticing that airplane food is less intolerable.

I asked around and apparently the same is true for all "special" meals, I thought it was interesting. Finding some related data to analyze has been on the back of my mind for a bit now.

And yes, often people are just okay with you bringing your own. I guess it works everywhere except prison, based on SBF.

Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by speleding on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @05:57AM (#38175417)
Spaces is/was a Dutch WeWork clone, but they are now owned by the same parent as Regus and they've been integrating the two. My office is in a Spaces in Amsterdam and I like it, but I think the Spaces facilities outside The Netherlands are a bit of hit or miss. I think they've been quickly assembled to show a growth curve but are not all up to the same standard.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by sinfulprogeny on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @07:06AM (#38175900)
How are they in general to deal with? I was in touch with them last week and there were red flags abound. They don't respond to emails, but would rather spam my phone. The price kept increasing from the first point of contact, and they finally wanted me to pay a bill where fees again were unspecified. When I asked for a detailed, itemized bill, they ghosted me.

Their mother company iwg PLC has less than stellar reviews on trustpilot.

https://www.trustpilot.com/review/iwgplc.com

Am I missing out by looking elsewhere? They were by far the cheapest and most flexible, but I don't have time to deal with administrative bullshit and protecting myself against predatory sales.

Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by keiferski on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @07:11AM (#38175925)
I haven’t had any issues, but I just did everything in person. It isn’t as streamlined as Wework, though.

I have heard negative experiences from people renting an entire office, but I only rent a desk.

Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by donor20 on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @08:14AM (#38176352)
They squeeze you on some various fees - you can rent an office, never use it, and be charged a 300 or 400 cleaning fee etc. you get charged a separate fee for access to coffee etc. pricing isnt online you work w a salesperson. Square footage is hard to find. I’m sure if you were very careful you could pick up on all this but not greatest
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by selcuka on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @01:22AM (#38173816)
> That's said, Regus is still running and WeWork is in Chapter 11.

Not really:

https://globalinsolvency.com/headlines/iwg-plans-set-regus-i...

Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by resolutebat on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @01:35AM (#38173884)
2020, during the pandemic. They seem to have recovered.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by zwily on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @10:18AM (#38177749)
WeWork is still running too… chapter 11 is a bankruptcy where you restructure debt and keep the lights on, not where you shut down.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by filoleg on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @10:30AM (#38177913)
This is just plain wrong.

Guess which other companies filed for chapter 11 bankruptcy? Sears, BedBath&Beyond, and Circuit City. I don’t see them coming back at all.

Not saying that there is no possible comeback from chapter 11, there is. But seeing a chapter 11 filing and assuming the company will get out of it just fine is a bit preposterous.

Most of the time, the whole point of “reorganization” under chapter 11 is to keep generating whatever cash flow they can in the process, to make sure the creditors recoup as much of their investment before the (most likely inevitable) shutdown and the operations are wound down as gently as possible.

Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by Reason077 on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @11:05AM (#38178476)
> "Guess which other companies filed for chapter 11 bankruptcy? Sears, BedBath&Beyond, and Circuit City. I don’t see them coming back at all"

General Motors, American Airlines, Marvel Entertainment, Hertz ...

Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by filoleg on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @05:04PM (#38183607)
And yet, chances don’t seem that good. The highest possible estimate for survival rate from chapter 11 bankruptcy that i managed to find was quoting about 25%[0].

0. https://www.forbes.com/2008/09/25/chapter-11-bankruptcy-ent-...

Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by zwily on Wednesday November 08, 2023 @09:17AM (#38190579)
It’s not “plain wrong”. Sure, most chapter 11 companies don’t make it - but by filing chapter 11 instead of chapter 7, it means they’re still operating and trying to make it. Chapter 7 is “turn out the lights and liquidate”.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by mianos on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @11:43AM (#38179069)
Yes, you are correct. Maybe I should have said there is more certainty about the future of Regus. I am not even sure of that.

I do agree, a lot of the media is saying this is a tactical move to re-negotiate a lot of expensive leases and they plan to get out of chapter 11 when they do.

Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by KingOfCoders on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @12:21AM (#38173573)
If you you're a startup and need several rooms, you usually got a quote from WeWork too. But yes experience for solos might be different.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by soared on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @12:56AM (#38173710)
Regus has a hip brand called "spaces" that is more wework-eqsue, but you can still use all the regus locations too.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by johndevor on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @01:39AM (#38173901)
The Regus app allows you to book a 1 day without talking to anyone.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by dazc on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @02:44AM (#38174221)
You can do that with Regus. I wouldn't recommend personally since receiving random invoices for places I have never visited.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by shever73 on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @07:53AM (#38176192)
That doesn't match my experience in Ireland. I select co-working spaces or meeting rooms, add options and checkout. I've never spoken to a Regus advisor.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by godzillabrennus on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @08:27AM (#38176456)
Regus in Chicago used to offer a phone number for tenants then lock that number to your lease and never let you port it away. That soured me to them. I’ll never use them again. I’m glad nimble startup companies like CoHatch have figured out how to open locations in Malls in the Midwest.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by nunez on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @09:59AM (#38177501)
There are other local coworking spaces that operate like WeWork (day/week passes obtainable online) but are not affiliated with Regus.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by rahimnathwani on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @02:31PM (#38181618)
I googled 'regus buy day pass' and the first result was:

https://www.regus.com/en-us/membership

Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by chrischen on Monday November 06, 2023 @11:20PM (#38173213)
Boring old real estate company with nearly the identical WeWork business model that also filed a strategic bankruptcy to shed its leases a couple years earlier.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by csomar on Monday November 06, 2023 @10:56PM (#38173067)
Regus has way too much bureaucracy and are also expensive (though WeWork is also expensive but it never made sense to me).

The reality might be that there are enough co-working spaces and you can paratroop into anyone and check before hand that it meets your expectation. There is nothing to franchise.

Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by jamiek88 on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @02:58AM (#38174308)
The use of the word paratroup to describe mundane business travel is fricken hilarious.

What’s next? We gonna SWAT into Hartford for an insurance sales conference?

Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by toyg on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @04:15AM (#38174787)
I think they really wanted "parachute", which has been used in a non-threatening metaphorical way for a long time. You can be "parachuted into a meeting" or "parachuted into a project" for example.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by booleandilemma on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @01:08PM (#38180485)
Even that word sounds like something a manager who's compensating for not actually doing anything besides attending meetings would say.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by f4c39012 on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @05:37AM (#38175303)
at the end of the meeting they leave via the window
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by Maken on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @06:48AM (#38175781)
The correct wording makes everything look more exciting.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by alexanderchr on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @10:08AM (#38177615)
> Regus has way too much bureaucracy

To say the least. I recently signed up for an office at a Regus location with the explicit purpose to incorporate a company there. All went well until a few weeks later when I went there to pick up post for the company and was told I was not allowed to do so until I had submitted a particular document. Only problem is that this document can only be sent to the registered company address by post. The woman in the reception literally had the document they needed in an envelope behind her desk but could not give it to me until I had submitted that same document. Zero understanding or willingness to escalate the issue to make an exception, just hiding behind "process".

In the end I managed to get in touch with someone else in the organization who realized how ridiculous the situation was and convinced them to make an exception so I could hand in the document but I'm not impressed at all by the company, to say the least.

Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by szundi on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @01:39AM (#38173902)
This is the reason
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by MattGaiser on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @03:37AM (#38174554)
Regus doesn’t let you just book space on demand from what I could tell (admittedly years ago).

Tried to book an office for my sister’s exam in a city with Regus but no WeWork and had to get a hotel room instead as we couldn’t figure out how to actually book any space. There was just a fill out a form and we will call you option.

Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by mulmen on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @04:55AM (#38175056)
This is the most hilarious part to me. This is a VC’s forum, right? So, ostensibly they offer connections to the right organizational entities. But then a startup darling forms that offers a boring thing that already exists and it gets labeled as innovative. So, what were the WeWork VCs thinking? Did they expect failure or were they just wrong?
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by rad_gruchalski on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @06:26AM (#38175588)
There's also cowork AG in Germany.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by vantassell on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @10:22PM (#38186355)
Regus has actually taken over a few WeWork leases in my town. Seems like they're picking up inventory for pennies on the dollar.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by steveBK123 on Monday November 06, 2023 @10:52PM (#38173033)
Exactly - I had raised the question in another WeWork post. Sort of the Uber model.. BYORE.

Could allow CRE landlords to fill space temporarily, much the way pop up shops, sample says, food halls and halloween stores do..

Much better business model to just take a cut of a fee than take on all the lease risk for a startup.

Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by overtomanu on Monday November 06, 2023 @11:16PM (#38173192)
like AirBnB for work..
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by dicriseg on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @12:14AM (#38173532)
Was that what Breather tried to do?
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by fasthands9 on Monday November 06, 2023 @10:54PM (#38173054)
It still seems likely that they were offering more than they were charging. If the cost to convert is $200,000 and the cost to operate is $200,000 a year - but they can only realistically bring in $200,000 - then no one is going to buy that model.

It worked when investors didn't care about losses because the losses were hidden as technology investments that they thought would get smaller with scale.

Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by BerislavLopac on Monday November 06, 2023 @11:06PM (#38173128)
My favourite example of this model is Hubble: https://hubblehq.com/
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by happytiger on Monday November 06, 2023 @11:31PM (#38173275)
Because you can’t get a tech company valuation on that model. That’s their entire innovation: getting a tech valuation on real estate.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by vishnugupta on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @12:07AM (#38173495)
WeWork India is in a way franchise. They seem to be doing quite well.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by httpz on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @12:33AM (#38173630)
What's interesting is McDonald's HQ owns the real estate of many McDonald's locations and takes rent from the franchisee. This way they can guarantee a steady stream of income regardless of their food sales.

I'm not sure how this would've worked out for WeWork.

Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by winkeltripel on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @01:05AM (#38173743)
McDonalds also refinanced that real estate after opening the store, to build up liquidity for the next location.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by dylan604 on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @01:32AM (#38173864)
At this point, isn't GE a financial company more than an engineering/electrics company?
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by throwaway2037 on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @02:25AM (#38174131)
That was true until the Global Financial Crisis in 2008. Now, they use their finance arm to help customers finance very large purchases. This is common in heavy industry.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by dylan604 on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @11:30AM (#38178862)
Isn't that precisely how it started? Then, they realized they had so much they could open that financing to more than just large industrial clients. Did they just scale it back to their original intent?
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by bandrami on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @01:21AM (#38173815)
I've seen a good business study that argues McDonalds is a real estate company with food products as a loss-leader.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by okeuro49 on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @02:02AM (#38174002)
This was the plot of the film "The Founder" on the founding of McDonalds.

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt4276820/

Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by preommr on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @02:03AM (#38174004)
There's a good scene in "The Founder" that covers that concept [0]

[0] https://www.google.com/search?q=youtube+mcdonalds+you%27re+i...

Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by lordnacho on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @04:38AM (#38174933)
It's a general business trope, isn't it?

Ford is a pension fund that happens to make cars.

Berkshire Hathaway is an insurance company that makes a lot of investments.

A supermarket is a bank that sells food.

GE at one point was also more or less a financial company that sold industrial goods.

I guess the thing is once you take a financial view of how a business works, a lot of things don't look like what they normally look like.

Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by bandrami on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @04:45AM (#38174978)
I know at one point GM cars were mostly used to sell GMAC financing, though I think that particular inversion has stopped now.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by sgt101 on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @09:52AM (#38177415)
There was this event, it happened in 2008 and it stopped the GMAC thing like the full stop stops this comment.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by pjc50 on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @07:43AM (#38176122)
People complain about "ZIRP", but it did reduce the benefits of co-mingling finance with retail and decoupled consumer credit from being quite so critical to sales.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by Shawnj2 on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @11:27AM (#38178819)
Amazon is a cloud computing company that uses its resources to host an online shopping website
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by FireBeyond on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @01:32PM (#38180843)
Harvard is a hedge fund that occasionally educates people.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by mrtksn on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @02:05AM (#38174018)
I was expecting it to turn into some kind of AirBnB model where people rent out a room as an office. A good desk, a good chair and a good connection in a house sounds rentable to me, many people could have rented a room in their house during the working hours to those who don’t have a spare room to turn into an office.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by retrocryptid on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @03:40AM (#38174579)
They had plenty of VC cash. They didn't need to franchise.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by mattgibson on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @04:55AM (#38175048)
The reason for this is that the rent they would pay will fluctuate with the market. If a city grows and an area becomes more expensive, the landlord captures the uplift by raising the rent and WeWork would operate on a thin margin. On the other hand, if they buy the property, then (if its with leverage) the mortage should be relatively stable as surrounding rents rise making it cheaper. After the mortgage is paid off there is no rent to pay at all and 100% of the location value is captured as profit. Also, the value of the property goes on the balance sheet, giving you back most of the cash paid on the mortgage (or the upfront cash price), so little loss.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by monocasa on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @05:09AM (#38175131)
Before the pandemic, commerical real estate was seen as a very low risk store of wealth.

At the time of the construction of WeWork's business model, actually being on the deeds would have been seen as reducing the risk profile (by not being beholden to variability/increases of renting). At the time, private capital would have seen being on the deed as a low risk benefit to the business plan.

Obviously how we think about commercial real estate, particularly 'downtown' office space has changed heavily and it seems like wework for whatever reason was unable to pivot. It's arguably very difficult to move the direction of that much capital on w you've made the opposite argument and are already holding the bag.

Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by quadcore on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @06:26AM (#38175585)
I've always wondered why WeWork didn't operate more on a "franchise" model

Thats a good question. I wonder if security (hidden cameras and network and stuff) could be a reason.

Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by kawhah on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @06:48AM (#38175778)
That model would make sense if you have interesting ideas/culture/tech but are capital constrained. WeWork's problem was the exact opposite - they had an excess of capital and nothing to spend it on except for buying buildings and taking out long-term leases.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by agentcoops on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @07:17AM (#38175953)
I think part of the misunderstanding of WeWork even within Silicon Valley/tech is what a diminishing part of their business the "coworking spaces" actually were. WeWork gets a lot of hate both inside and outside Silicon Valley, but I worked a lot with their team before the failed IPO and my strong sense is most of the blame for the process that lead to today rests entirely with senior management and not even the core business.

I'd be curious to know how this trajectory played out past the IPO blunder, but at the time they were already focused on the "enterprise" model of being the best place for a large firm to go to source/spin-up offices around the world (where in some sense you could understand the coworking spaces as dogfooding their own systems of vendor/space management for quickly spinning up and operating office space around the world). I.e. rather than either having to maintain profitability at a global network of coworking spaces or whatever franchise model you become the outsourced office team for the world's largest/high growth firms, who want to focus on their core competence not sourcing furniture vendors in China.

Rather than partaking in the joy of mocking WeWork's obvious hubris leading to their downfall, I think the interesting question, especially in this time of high interest rates, is what this bankruptcy signals for the future of "tech-accelerated" firms that want to primarily focus on the real world not software (ie without marginal cost of 0) -- who want to achieve the exponential scale of software yet who have to operate with the margin/cost structure constraint of a traditional firm. Tesla/SpaceX are of course the big success here, but I doubt we'll see anything equivalent until interest rates are back to 0...

Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by sgt101 on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @09:49AM (#38177379)
> Tesla/SpaceX are of course the big success here, but I doubt we'll see anything equivalent until interest rates are back to 0...

I guess it's all about where and when you draw the boundaries, Mush has just managed to lose $20bn on "X" so the Tesla/SpaceX empire may not be counted as a big success for ever.

Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by oldtownroad on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @11:05AM (#38178471)
The problem is more fundamental. As with Uber, WeWork is an evolution of a simple and well understood business model… but layered with some high-tech fantasy about being able to change the fundamentals of the universe.

WeWork could have succeeded with the franchise model you describe or the focus on being a flexible leasing option for enterprise… but we wouldn’t have heard of them, that wouldn’t be the WeWork we ever knew. WeWork only became big because of the mythology, otherwise it would just be a nicer Regus… which existed before WeWork and will exist long after.

WeWork’s core business was mythology, like Uber, and every other “technology” business from the 2010s. You can peel back all the bullshit and say that their “core business” was good but it was all the bullshit that made WeWork, WeWork.

Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by TheRealDunkirk on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @08:38AM (#38176548)
> Shifting the revenue to a franchise model seems like it solves the majority of their lease issues, and still lets them be useful, even in smaller markets.

The beauty of this idea is that they could make some money while all of this settles out, and then it would pave the way for another PE to come along and start rolling up all of the most profitable locations until they re-consume all the properties again.

Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by smoe on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @06:59PM (#38184905)
They might be doing that in some countries. Last week I heard from a friend working at a WeWork in Bogotá, that they don’t think it will affect them, because the location is run by Softbank using the WeWork brand. Don’t know if that is true.
Re:WeWork Goes Bankrupt, Capping Co-Working Company's Downfall by travis_kalanick on Wednesday November 08, 2023 @01:28AM (#38187372)
https://www.morning.fr/ in France does that, using buildings that are scheduled to be destroyed or "repurposed" in 12-24 months. They convert them in offices and rent office space until the landlord carry on with their initial projects.