News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by 0cf8612b2e1e on Monday September 18, 2023 @02:13PM (#37559811)
Considering how slow the new calculator app is, I am terrified of Microsoft updating the classics. These things used to open instantly and provide value. Now it is a visible pause and gigantic white space heavy interfaces.
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by MenhirMike on Monday September 18, 2023 @02:23PM (#37559962)
The fact that the calculator has a $#!"@ hamburger menu to switch between Programmer and "can do floating point numbers" mode is one of those asinine UX decisions that makes me fear any app update - "Oh hey, they're adding a neat feature, let's see how they mess up UX on it" is my default reaction nowadays.

And yes, Notepad and Calculator take much longer to start now than they ever did - not sure if it's SmartScreen, a Store Update check, or if SEND_DIAGNOSTICS is enabled on production builds, but I bet it's some Program Manager making some idiotic decision because some useless KPI requires it.

Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by bee_rider on Monday September 18, 2023 @02:40PM (#37560201)
Wait, what is the difference between “programmer mode” and “can do floating point numbers” mode? The former implies the latter, right?
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by MenhirMike on Monday September 18, 2023 @02:44PM (#37560251)
Programmer mode is useful if you need to convert Decimal/Hex/Binary, but if you try to enter e.g, 17.95 as a decimal number, you can't. (In fact, it'll display 17 NAND 95 - so the dot seems to be a shortcut for a bitwise operation) - it's Integers Only.

(I guess one could argue that programmer mode should include IEEE-754 floats, but I'm fine with that mode being limited to integers, it's plenty useful already. But it does require switching to another mode if you need a calculator to calculate floating point numbers)

Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by godd2 on Monday September 18, 2023 @02:57PM (#37560429)
You cannot enter fractional values in programmer mode.

This is reasonable, but what is incredibly annoying is that when you type in a number while in Programmer mode, if you then change to Scientific mode, it blows away the number you typed in.

Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by 3seashells on Monday September 18, 2023 @02:34PM (#37560134)
Calculator is slow calculator now, for calculated promotion points.
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by bluSCALE4 on Monday September 18, 2023 @02:43PM (#37560250)
After I found out that in GTA5, bad code loading a large JSON file made boot time jump from 2m to 6m, up to 15m. The JSON file was for in-game purchases, aka useless.
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by zerocrates on Monday September 18, 2023 @03:10PM (#37560572)
Though I believe that was a delay specifically for GTA Online only, and those purchases are absolutely the key and only point of the online mode for Rockstar.

Of course that doesn't mean it should have been loading so inefficiently regardless.

Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by frenchy on Monday September 18, 2023 @03:16PM (#37560662)
The next verison of GTA should be a game where you get a gig with a corporation called Rockstar, and all your jobs are focused around making them money.
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by rvba on Tuesday September 19, 2023 @01:11PM (#37573018)
Most companies not even bother to make their software usable what is baffling.

Am I supposed to play a multiplayer game when it takes 10 minutes to open and another 5 in queue and then few before it starts?

Blizzard launcher downloads 137 MB to launch some games EVERY time. In fact some game did not even start, probably due to mismatch of version on the patch server and game server. Nobody in Blizzard seems to notice nor care at all. The whole management board should be fired.

I remember paying 10 dollars for starcraft remastered and it plain didnt work, because blizzard doesnt bother to fix their battle.net app (all they did was try to rename it to blizzard app). Now statcraft bw works, but it didnt for few weeks.

You finish your work, want to start the game and it cant even start fast.

Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by bluSCALE4 on Wednesday September 27, 2023 @04:24PM (#37680751)
This happened with the Warcraft remake as well. Fans are trying to pick up the slack.
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by conductr on Monday September 18, 2023 @02:45PM (#37560263)
> "Oh hey, they're adding a neat feature, let's see how they mess up UX on it"

It still feels like they just break UX to support touch devices better than older UI would. I might just be showing my age, or out of touch, or perhaps because I only use Windows for work but I have no intention of ever using touch on a device running Windows. My laptop screen support touch and I turn it off as it's and unexpected behavior to me (if I touch my screen I'm probably just pointing at something/showing to another person).

Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by MarkSweep on Monday September 18, 2023 @03:04PM (#37560510)
The really damning UI feature of calculator, at least during the beginning of Windows 10, was the splash screen (aka loading screen). I understand that’s a standard feature of UWP apps, but the fact it was on screen long enough to be noticed was unacceptable.
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by vxNsr on Sunday September 24, 2023 @12:06AM (#37630048)
I’m sure there was a built in wait timer and it wasn’t because it was actually loading anything. Some manager needed to justify paying for the splash screen so created a ticket to make sure it always got shown
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by grishka on Monday September 18, 2023 @04:24PM (#37561529)
> a $#!"@ hamburger menu

Touchscreen-first design does this to apps ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by MenhirMike on Monday September 18, 2023 @05:10PM (#37562111)
There would be plenty of space for humongous buttons to touch and only use the hamburger when the app is really small. But yeah, it's not touchscreen, it's that everyone designs exclusively for 6" screens these days, which also explains why 60% of modern apps is just useless whitespace :/
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by grishka on Monday September 18, 2023 @05:34PM (#37562393)
> everyone designs exclusively for 6" screens these days

Technically incorrect, I don't ;)

Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by MenhirMike on Monday September 18, 2023 @07:32PM (#37563649)
I wish there were more people that also don't and still design for desktop screen sizes, but you seem to be a rarer and rarer breed :/
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by MikusR on Tuesday September 19, 2023 @01:49AM (#37566012)
$#!"@ hamburger and ordinary menu take the same amount of clicks to switch modes. The one from Windows 7 and the one from windows 10 take about the same time to start. The last fast starting one was in Windows XP.
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by RajT88 on Monday September 18, 2023 @02:42PM (#37560225)
Windows 11 snipping tool is unnecessarily clunky and garbage as well.

What I do on any Win11 machine is keep an archived copy of Windows 10's System32 folder, and pin the old copies of apps to my start menu.

...From my cold dead hands!

Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by gibolt on Monday September 18, 2023 @02:46PM (#37560290)
Yeah, Mac solved this so elegantly.

Windows really needs a simple default hotkey to do a partial screen capture quickly, and save it to a reasonable directory.

Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by adrenvi on Monday September 18, 2023 @02:59PM (#37560452)
Win + Shift + S allows you to select a rectangular region and copy the image data to clipboard.
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by secondcoming on Monday September 18, 2023 @04:24PM (#37561525)
Yes. This changed my life. I use it every day.
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by zadjii on Monday September 18, 2023 @03:02PM (#37560491)
I mean, win+shift+s (the default snipping tool hotkey) to grab a snip is pretty elegant IMO. Copies it straight to the clipboard, or lets you save (& edit) it from the notification. Probably one of my most used shortcuts.
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by Macha on Monday September 18, 2023 @08:14PM (#37564062)
Indeed, on Mac I normally end up swapping the cmd-shift-4 (screenshots to file, can open in preview instead) with cmd-shift-option-4 (screenshots to clipboard) as the latter is basically what I always want.
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by koolant on Monday September 18, 2023 @03:04PM (#37560519)
Win + Shift + S has been there for ages now.
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by IYasha on Wednesday September 20, 2023 @12:48PM (#37586522)
what ages exactly? (I don't use windows now but need to know)
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by vxNsr on Sunday September 24, 2023 @12:08AM (#37630055)
At least since 2017 I wanna say.
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by fortran77 on Monday September 18, 2023 @03:55PM (#37561136)
Have you ever used Windows?
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by hulitu on Monday September 18, 2023 @04:54PM (#37561902)
Printscreen to capture the whole screen. Alt + Printscreen to capture the current active window.
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by FirmwareBurner on Monday September 18, 2023 @02:39PM (#37560187)
>Considering how slow the new calculator app is

What's bad about it? For me it always does the job whenever I fire it up.

Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by gibolt on Monday September 18, 2023 @02:45PM (#37560266)
How many adults are being distracted by the Windows calculator app?
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by FirmwareBurner on Monday September 18, 2023 @02:52PM (#37560367)
That's asking the right questions.
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by godd2 on Monday September 18, 2023 @03:00PM (#37560462)
> scales nicely to whatever size you make it

In Programmer mode if you type in a number larger than 32 bits and the window is scaled to its smallest size, the lower row of binary is cut off a little bit.

Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by FirmwareBurner on Monday September 18, 2023 @03:05PM (#37560524)
Horrible. Unusable.
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by sccxy on Monday September 18, 2023 @03:12PM (#37560617)
I also like new calculator app in windows.

TBH date calculator is my most used feature there.

But calculator app in macOS... Real horror.

Try to open units converter from top app menus.

Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by hulitu on Monday September 18, 2023 @04:58PM (#37561951)
You worked all life as a cashier with a hand calculator 15 x 15 cm ( 5 x 5 in).

One day your boss comes: your calculator is obsolete, you need to use the one on the wall with every number being 25 x 25 cm (10 x 10 in). Good luck

Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by FirmwareBurner on Monday September 18, 2023 @05:38PM (#37562435)
Your PC keyboard didn't change though. The numbers and arithmetic symbols are still in the same places.

And yes, people did have to switch calculators from time to time. Source: my mom, an accountant. Your argument is a very weak nothingburger.

Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by naikrovek on Monday September 18, 2023 @02:23PM (#37559956)
the new calculator app is open source, you can see what's making it so slow if you want, and contribute fixes if you have the skills to do the fixing.

MIT license.

https://github.com/microsoft/calculator/

Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by rappatic on Monday September 18, 2023 @02:26PM (#37560007)
This isn't justification for an app being bad. A company shouldn't release a broken and slow app on an OS I pay for and you can't make it seem like that's okay simply because Microsoft took ten minutes to put the code on Github. At that rate, why put effort into improving apps at all if users will do free work for you?
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by naikrovek on Monday September 18, 2023 @06:03PM (#37562714)
so make it less bad, or stop complaining.

if you're complaining without a plan of action to address the complaint, you are speaking for attention alone.

fork it and fix it, then use that version. open your fork so you can help others.

you other commenters can continue to complain and whine endlessly or you can put your money where your mouth is and actually do something.

what's it gonna be?

Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by codetrotter on Monday September 18, 2023 @02:26PM (#37560001)
Why would anyone want to do free work for Microsoft?
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by dagaci on Monday September 18, 2023 @02:34PM (#37560138)
Because it makes the things they use better mostly, they are => https://github.com/microsoft/calculator/graphs/contributors
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by dingnuts on Monday September 18, 2023 @02:32PM (#37560101)
This is the correct response. Telling community members that they can fix bugs in libre, community-supported software is one thing.

Telling /users/ who are NOT community members to make changes to some corporation's application that happens to have source available, in their free time, and then donate that labor to some billion dollar corporation? fuck THAT.

Fix it your own damn self, Microsoft. I have better shit to do.

Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by naikrovek on Monday September 18, 2023 @06:11PM (#37562804)
open source software should not be contributed to? I can not understand open source people, man.

it only counts if it has "libre" in the name? MIT-licensed isn't good enough? WTF

Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by MikusR on Tuesday September 19, 2023 @01:57AM (#37566051)
Calculator is MIT Licensed. Is that not libre enough?
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by pjmlp on Monday September 18, 2023 @02:51PM (#37560345)
They shouldn't, other than provides a good entry on the CV, that is all.
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by tpush on Monday September 18, 2023 @02:35PM (#37560152)
Microsoft requires contributors to sign a CLA giving Microsoft effective ownership over your contributions.

You should never be working for a for-profit organization without compensation.

Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by eddythompson80 on Monday September 18, 2023 @02:42PM (#37560226)
Not arguing for contributing to Microsoft’s repos, but most open source projects under most well respected foundations do the same. There is a big argument for or against CLAs but it’s not like it’s just them.
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by tpush on Monday September 18, 2023 @02:48PM (#37560309)
Yes, lots of organizations want free labor. That has no bearing on whether its ethical.

There's a somewhat decent argument to be made for non-profit organizations, but there's none for for-profit orgs like Microsoft.

Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by naikrovek on Monday September 18, 2023 @06:08PM (#37562763)
successfully reach out to all contributors to the Linux kernel and then tell me CLAs are bad for a corporation.

you open source people, man. you give all developers a horrible reputation. put up or shut up, lol

Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by tpush on Tuesday September 19, 2023 @05:12AM (#37567313)
That copyright of the Linux kernel is being shared by all is contributors is essential in making it an actual public good.

I have no idea what you want to express with your second paragraph, though.

Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by eddythompson80 on Tuesday September 19, 2023 @03:16PM (#37574921)
There is a Linux BDFL that everyone refers to for any disputes. He can't be there forever unfortunately. Who knows how Linux will be 10 or 20 years without him.
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by tbyehl on Monday September 18, 2023 @10:23PM (#37564948)
I've always thought CLAs were a strong indicator that an organization doesn't actually want one's free labor.
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by saagarjha on Monday September 18, 2023 @05:08PM (#37562082)
I am being compensated by the things I use getting better.
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by tpush on Tuesday September 19, 2023 @05:13AM (#37567332)
That is by definition not compensation.

I have to say I'm disappointed seeing you defend exploitative labor practices.

Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by saagarjha on Tuesday September 19, 2023 @07:37AM (#37568505)
There is nothing exploitative when evaluating these two options:

* Patching the binary locally without its source code to do what I want it to do

* Submitting a patch upstream to an open source project

and arriving at the conclusion that the latter is preferable.

Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by tpush on Tuesday September 19, 2023 @07:45AM (#37568590)
Yes there is, because the for-profit organisation making you sign a CLA for your contributions is effectively using your free labor to suppress wages of its employees.

Doing free work for an employer is always parasitic with regards to its employees.

You have a third option here which you didn't list, which is forking the project into one which is working in favor of the public; removing the CLA and giving each contributor shared ownership of the project. Your contribution should then be made to that project.

Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by saagarjha on Tuesday September 19, 2023 @08:01PM (#37578774)
I can't fork the project into something that ships with the OS.
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by tpush on Wednesday September 20, 2023 @02:37PM (#37588108)
That's fine, people can still load your program onto it themselves.
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by naikrovek on Monday September 18, 2023 @06:04PM (#37562719)
so fork it and work on it yourself.

do I have to tell everyone what the MIT license allows?

Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by iggldiggl on Monday September 18, 2023 @02:34PM (#37560122)
Unfortunately some issues have been declared as "by design". E.g. due to a rigid interpretation of some accessibility guideline, the fact that clicking on the history or trigonometry menus moves the input focus there, so Numpad Enter suddenly starts re-opening that menu instead of pressing '=' is apparently perfectly intended and definitively not a bug.
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by naikrovek on Thursday September 21, 2023 @11:58PM (#37607660)
then work on a copy. it's MIT-licensed so you don't have to give your work to Microsoft.
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by gspencley on Monday September 18, 2023 @02:46PM (#37560288)
But how are you supposed to sync your calculations to One Drive and Teams if it's just a simple, non-network-enabled calculator program?
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by 0cf8612b2e1e on Monday September 18, 2023 @03:00PM (#37560457)
I am now incapable of identifying satire.
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by k12sosse on Monday September 18, 2023 @03:39PM (#37560957)
Use PowerShell in Azure as your calculator - duh! ;-)

shell.azure.com

Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by MikusR on Tuesday September 19, 2023 @01:50AM (#37566017)
Windows calculator doesn't do that.
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by gspencley on Tuesday September 19, 2023 @09:27AM (#37569672)
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/satire

> 2. trenchant wit, irony, or sarcasm used to expose and discredit vice or folly

Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by hulitu on Wednesday September 20, 2023 @02:59AM (#37581214)
It sends telemetry so it is not far away.
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by pjmlp on Monday September 18, 2023 @02:52PM (#37560353)
A side effect from app sandboxing, and modern Windows API being all COM based.
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by blibble on Monday September 18, 2023 @03:13PM (#37560628)
they'll probably add ads and a subscription

like solitaire

Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by Tempest1981 on Monday September 18, 2023 @06:22PM (#37562923)
Pay for extended precision, or an LCD font
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by tored on Monday September 18, 2023 @10:43PM (#37565077)
And achievements.
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by IYasha on Wednesday September 20, 2023 @12:51PM (#37586570)
micro-payments for fancy skins )
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by Piisamirotta on Monday September 18, 2023 @03:19PM (#37560719)
Ah. I really hate Windows calculator nowadays. When looking for alternatives I found SpeedCrunch (https://heldercorreia.bitbucket.io/speedcrunch/). So far I have loved it, even did some regedit to open it from keyboard's calculator button.
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by yndoendo on Monday September 18, 2023 @04:20PM (#37561485)
Qalculate is my go-to for cross platform calculator that is useful and is not limited to the most basic +-*/ operations. https://qalculate.github.io/
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by rkagerer on Monday September 18, 2023 @03:24PM (#37560783)
When I installed Windows 7, I copied the old mspaint executable over and kept using it, as I hate the stupid Office-style ribbon they implemented in the new one (excessive waste of screen real estate, takes more clicks, and the items collapse to uselessness when the window gets too small).
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by IYasha on Wednesday September 20, 2023 @12:50PM (#37586551)
yeah, the tool selection (and options) is just terrible! UI logic is very weird.
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by stainablesteel on Monday September 18, 2023 @03:30PM (#37560849)
my perspective: i left windows years ago and i never laugh at any comedian as much as i laugh at people in windows update threads
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by benbristow on Monday September 18, 2023 @03:39PM (#37560955)
Is it? Just opened it on Windows 10 and it opens instantly and uses 23MB of RAM which is rather low for a modern application. Calculator is also fully open source now.

https://github.com/microsoft/calculator

Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by rvba on Tuesday September 19, 2023 @01:15PM (#37573075)
Compare it to utorrent that does so much more and is probably around 5mb of RAM.

Seriously, is your post satire or you think 23 mb for a calculator app is good?

Whole windows 95 (including a calculator app) fit in 16MB of RAM. In fact even less, since you could run few programs on top of it too. Connect to internet even..

Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by benbristow on Tuesday September 19, 2023 @01:40PM (#37573415)
I use Teams on a daily basis. End up closing it to save some RAM as it's eating up around 800MB of RAM for a chat app.

23MB for a modern calculator in this day & age when many apps are written in Electron/EdgeHTML/web technologies is pretty good

Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by rvba on Tuesday September 19, 2023 @04:26PM (#37576023)
"Flu is not bad when we compare it to ebola" - is like choosing the lesser evil, bit still an evil.

The ancient version of utorrent (before ads) works fine.

Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by benbristow on Tuesday September 19, 2023 @05:02PM (#37576582)
Using an almost 12 year old piece of networking software doesn't seem very secure to me.
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by rvba on Wednesday September 20, 2023 @01:55AM (#37580826)
That's not even the point of the discussion. If the old version of utorrent was changed to fix something (no new functionalities), it would still have a low memory footprint.
Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by dmitrygr on Monday September 18, 2023 @03:42PM (#37560983)
> Considering how slow the new calculator app is

Am I really the only person who has a copy of "calc.exe" from win 2000 that replaces c:\windows\calc.exe immediately after any windows [re]install?

Re:Paint on Windows is getting layers and transparency support by ToDougie on Monday September 18, 2023 @04:28PM (#37561553)
I'm blown away at how slow the calculator is. Used to be that every time I went to open the calculator app from Run, it would freeze my whole system. I have 64G of RAM and a $500 (at the time) Ryzen chip. I had to perform some arcane troubleshooting steps to fix it.