Reading through this interview and thread, I notice how often this debate comes down to a sense of agency. You write about programmers being "burned out by their employer". But I would say that people experience burnout when they fail to set boundaries. Working to the point where your mental health suffers is your fault: it's your responsbility to establish healthy boundaries or, failing at that, quit.
It's interesting that the manager and/or employer has no apparent agency here.
That's precisely the point of unions, though. Individually, you have no control over your employer, but via collective bargaining you do.
Why? Unions work the best when they are formed around a cause everyone cares about, that is how we got workers right in the first case, there is nothing that says you need to form a union when things are good.
Talk to a union organizer about this. They'll help you understand how this type of monopsony looks to a worker when they're trying to organize.
- Do unions enforce remote work?
- Do unions enforce an offer letter to turn into actual employment for someone who isn't even a member yet (they haven't signed anything)?
- Do unions make people have a better handle on their mental health and do companies with unions have lower rates of burnout in their workforces?
That's why police are unionized, as well as most team sport elite athletes (players unions). And they like the power it gives them, which is why you never hear them talk badly about it.
What are some of the reasons you think a labor union would form in the first place?
Have you ever heard of mandatory break requirements in certain industries? Think those ideas came from business owners?
"The National Labor Union was founded on August 20, 1866, in Baltimore, Maryland. It was the first attempt to create a national labor group in the United States and one of their first actions was the first national call for Congress to mandate an 8-hour work day."
https://guides.loc.gov/this-month-in-business-history/august...
The mechanics are work contracts with a grievance process, if you're curious.
The moment developers have a cause they can agree on, they will start to vote for unions. And no it isn't too late at that point, rather it is too early to vote for a union unless you have a cause you collectively care about.
Yes, this is how democracy works in general. You don't get everything (or necessarily anything) you want
Personally the only thing that would really make me quit is if they tried to make me go hybrid or back to the office in any way. My workplace is small (10 engineers) and so unionizing based on that could be pretty easy, but it would be easier for me to quit and find a new job that does do remote
You are misinformed on the law. Free riders can't be compelled to pay dues.
California, Washington and New York are forced union states, most developers don't work in right to work states.
In my experience, democratic organizations are complete garbage. Every experience I've had with local government/HOAs has been a disappointing at best.
I get that some democratic organizations are necessary. But adding more voluntarily seems to be at best a necessary evil, not something to list as a positive.
As far as I'm aware, most HOAs were imposed from above by the home builder rather than coming into existence via grassroots organization of the home owners.
Should these not just be regular labor law requirements?
I don't think burnout is caused by companies most of the time. It's caused by the employee not taking care of themself. Will a manager abuse someones willingness to not leverage the power they have? Sure. Some managers are awful. They'll continue to be awful when the Union is in place. Just in a different way. You'll still be miserable under that manager. The solution is to make a plan to leave and start executing on it. The moment you make the plan you'll feel better.
The reader is expecting you to say, "because I only work for employeers with good working conditions", but...
> because I don't stick around long enough to burn out.
Well, ok, but how old are you, and do you believe that this strategy of musical chairs will continue to work for the rest of your life? It's a marathon, not a sprint.
> If they did working conditions would be across the board better.
Why do you think so? How exactly is that going to happen? What's the incentive to improve working conditions when employees just leave quickly, on purpose? Again, you didn't even claim that your new jobs have good working conditions.
Why do you think so? How exactly is that going to happen? What's the
incentive to improve working conditions when employees just leave quickly,
on purpose? Again, you didn't even claim that your new jobs have good
working conditions.
If you think it's hopeless and you aren't a valuable employee in the companies eye then that turns into a self fulfilling prophecy.
It's not just about money. Working conditions are equally important.
Consider when companies demand that everyone RTO after promising permanent WFH. Consider when companies rescind offer letters after you've already quit your old job. Consider mass layoffs and severance.
I think about how so many engineers need to take a long, unpaid break from work after leaving their jobs, because they've been burned out by their former employer.