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Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by labster on Monday August 07, 2023 @09:57PM (#37043519)
We’re in a race to the bottom. There’s no way a company selling legitimate products will be able to compete or grow a customer base in the AI future, because we’ll be swimming in garbage.
Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by Fricken on Monday August 07, 2023 @10:37PM (#37043805)
This might be why physical bookstores are making a comeback. Trustworthy curation us essential, and worth paying a premium for. This has always been the case, but maybe not fully appreciated.
Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by interestica on Monday August 07, 2023 @10:46PM (#37043876)
This has been why I've started to really like Costco -- they're essentially acting as product curators (and back it up with a generous return policy.)
Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by dangus on Monday August 07, 2023 @11:30PM (#37044184)
Well, I like how local bookstores go about curation more than Costco.

I don't know if we can say that a store with unlabeled aisles can be a source of curation.

Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by yonaguska on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @12:39AM (#37044564)
it's curation in that the products they do offer are generally trustworthy.
Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by dangus on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @08:34AM (#37048034)
Let me clarify what I mean: Costco chooses products based on their ability to get a bulk contract and their mass appeal, not whether the product is the best available option. Curation isn’t done for the customer, it’s done to limit the SKU count to simplify warehouse operations.

While the products are often above average and maybe even the best in their category, that reflects Costco’s affluent demographic more than an unusual commitment to quality or trust. For the most part Costco is the exact same as a Target or Walmart but with fewer SKUs and fewer items that are popular with low income individuals.

Is Tide Original trustworthy? It’s banned in New York for having too much of cancer-causing chemical. Sold in Costco.

Are products with artificial colors trustworthy? Costco is happy to sell you a case of Gatorade with Red 40, which is linked to ADHD in children.

Compare the ingredient list for Costco bakery croissants to Whole Foods. Costco’s product has a bunch of unpronounceable chemicals, I don’t find that all that trustworthy. Also, they’re not very tasty croissants.

What are Costco’s ethical standards for the treatment of animals used in their meat and dairy department? We don’t really know of any, while most natural foods stores publish some kind of guidelines. For example, I can buy visibly better eggs from pasture raised chickens at natural foods stores that beat the quality of Costco’s organic egg product. The yolks have a deeper color, and eggs from pasture-raised chickens are known to have more nutrients.

Here’s the other thing I can’t trust about Costco: they’re going to frequently sell out of the common items I buy every day, change suppliers on a whim, or rearrange the store to make the pallets fit.

Having aisles unlabeled is not very trustworthy because it shows how the goal of the store is to get you to get lost, impulse purchase, and over-consume. It’s a less extreme version of IKEA, whose store layout is a basically a dark pattern in itself.

This is the store that has third-party salespeople hawking free samples of products they want you to buy and nagging you about solar panels and DirecTV.

The wonderful return policy is there so that you come back in and shop some more. They know that once you fight the ridiculous Costco traffic and actually get in the store you “might as well stock up.”

Then on your way out the food court sells food that’s somehow lower quality than a typical county fair. Does a chicken bake even exist outside of Costco? Like, it’s a product inspired by the manufacturing convenience rather than something people actually cook in their homes.

As a member I’d like the cult of Costco to go away. It’s just a store. I’m just there because the cost of certain staple goods make the membership make fee worth it. That’s all.

Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by dangus on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @09:12AM (#37048472)
There’s a big difference between limiting SKU count to simplify operations and products being curated to be “the best” and most trustworthy options.

Natural foods stores have much more stringent standards on things like artificial colors, animal treatment, and use of chemicals.

For example, Tide Original is banned in New York for having too much of a cancer-causing chemical. Costco sells it. Costco sells products with artificial colors linked to ADHD in children. Costco’s best organic eggs are visibly and nutritionally inferior to eggs from pasture-raised chickens.

The fact that Costco doesn’t sell low quality private label and discount brand items has more to do with customer demographic than trust and curation.

This is also the store that allows third-party companies’ representatives to harass customers about solar panels and DirecTV in the store. “Trustworthy.”

They’re really no different on “trust” than Walmart or Target, and I think people need to stop being a part of its retail cult and take it for what it is: a store with good prices on staple goods.

Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by bpt3 on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @10:00AM (#37049090)
No one said Costco offers the very best product in any or all categories.

What they said is that Costco is upfront about what they're selling, rarely sells defective products, and offers a very generous return policy in the (rare) case you are dissatisfied with a purchase.

Those aren't that far off from Walmart or Target, because those are also generally reasonable retailers. I would say Costco offers better value on their products overall.

If you ask more of that from any retailer, good luck finding anyplace to purchase anything.

Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by dangus on Wednesday August 09, 2023 @08:41AM (#37061771)
It sound like we agree that Costco is pretty much just like any other typical US retailer. In that case it doesn’t make sense to highlight them as especially trustworthy.
Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by kelnos on Monday August 07, 2023 @10:50PM (#37043909)
I think that's an ok workaround, but I don't want to go to physical bookstores, and I don't want physical books. As much as I do like the feel of a physical book, I much prefer the convenience and portability of a digital book.

And speaking of convenience, it would be a big shame if we had to go back to physical stores for non-trivial purchases because we can't trust anything online.

Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by arnvidr on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @05:30AM (#37046502)
Many physical bookstores have web pages where they sell e-books as well. Find the store that serves what you want, instead of finding faults with the ones who don't and going with the huge sell-everything-store.
Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by bpt3 on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @09:57AM (#37049033)
Or I can go with the huge sell-everything store because I'm perfectly fine with the service it provides. Not everyone is looking for some bespoke curated experience when buying a product.

In short, the store that serves what I want is usually the huge sell-everything store.

Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by andrei_says_ on Monday August 07, 2023 @10:21PM (#37043694)
We swim in garbage already (looking at amazon) but bhphoto and sweetwater still exist.
Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by RajT88 on Monday August 07, 2023 @11:00PM (#37043992)
Newegg as well.
Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by Izkata on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @12:04AM (#37044384)
Newegg is now an amazon-style marketplace, with stuff they sell mixed in to the rest same as how AmazonBasics is mixed in to the rest.
Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by RajT88 on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @09:17AM (#37048524)
Well shit.
Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by yomlica8 on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @02:32PM (#37053488)
Newegg is a shadow of its former self, but it is still possible to turn the 'sold my newegg' knob on relatively easily. It seems impossible to do that with Amazon. Walmart online you can do it but you'll have to watch it like a hawk as it gets aggressively disabled again.
Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by red-iron-pine on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @10:29AM (#37049512)
newegg used to be the place to get good stuff, too. i'd go to read the reviews even if it was on sale at microcenter or amazon. more often than not bought stuff there too.

without good reviews and insight it's just amazon with higher pricing.

Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by homarp on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @07:29AM (#37047361)
and apple.com
Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by fennecfoxy on Wednesday August 09, 2023 @09:44AM (#37062545)
The streamlined and stylised experience of paying multiple hundreds of percents mark-up for ram and SSDs.
Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by INGSOCIALITE on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @09:33AM (#37048737)
Sweet water is great - they even have a dedicated rep call you a little after your order arrives to make sure you’re happy with the product and that it’s just what you wanted.

Plus they send you candy

Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by extraduder_ire on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @12:37PM (#37051703)
mcmaster-carr exists too. I've never been in region they serve though
Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by neilv on Monday August 07, 2023 @10:26PM (#37043726)
We're already getting there.

Maybe Amazon brands will at least be predictable, but the non-Amazon brands on Amazon will be increasingly counterfeits and noise.

(A contributor to the current problem of eroding non-Amazon brands with counterfeits seems to be Amazon's commingling from different marketplace sellers of the "same ASIN". And the current mass-spam search DoS of random-name brands and near-identical products from overseas sellers is also a problem. Amazon can not only shield their own brands from both of those problems, but can also exercise more supply chain integrity control for its brands than is possible for the non-Amazon brands if Amazon doesn't cooperate.)

Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by dragonwriter on Monday August 07, 2023 @11:16PM (#37044089)
> Maybe Amazon brands will at least be predictable, but the non-Amazon brands on Amazon will be increasingly counterfeits and noise.

Of course, because that helps sell the Amazon brand goods.

Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by smithza on Monday August 07, 2023 @11:21PM (#37044123)
Yet I think Amazon brands are setup to eliminate competition due to their insider information in the market place. I wouldn’t put my money in them because they aren’t playing fairly in the market.
Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by itsoktocry on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @08:15AM (#37047807)
>I wouldn’t put my money in them because they aren’t playing fairly in the market.

They identify widely ordered products and source their own version to sell. Why is that a negative? Costco does the same. As long as they vet the quality (my experience with AmazonBasic products has been fine), seems like a win-win?

Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by fineIllregister on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @05:36PM (#37055784)
Costco doesn't sell counterfeits of the third-party items they are competing against. Amazon's co-mingling practice is anti-competitive.
Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by soerxpso on Monday August 07, 2023 @10:03PM (#37043561)
This assumes that the only ways people have to find companies are search engines and other mediums that are prone to AI takeover. If everyone starts to realize that most of the surface internet is garbage, they would start communicating with humans they know about which places are not garbage. It was possible to find good businesses to interact with before Google existed.

Obviously in a world where every online retailer is nearly useless, a guy who creates an online retailer that is not useless would immediately have anyone he personally tells about it as customers, and anyone they tell about it, and so on (since in this hypothetical, everyone is desperate for a good retailer).

Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by UtopiaPunk on Monday August 07, 2023 @10:21PM (#37043697)
That's how people find the good torrent spots, so topical.
Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by bsenftner on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @06:17AM (#37046831)
And the few, lone, honest online retailers get early discovered by online scammers who turn that honest retailer inside out, destroy them financially, and then take over their URL. I've seen it happen, and it nearly happened to me but I shut down rather than spiral down, unable to wage war on so many fronts.
Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by codpiece on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @06:41AM (#37047004)
Could you please elaborate? This is fascinating.
Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by pbhjpbhj on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @08:49AM (#37048242)
Even when you take a recommendation from yourself ... ie re-buy a product, it often seems that the company has been captured by VC and the brand has been used to make short term profits and it's no longer any better than whatever white label products you can find on AliExpress.
Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by giantg2 on Monday August 07, 2023 @10:09PM (#37043609)
Plenty of niche, premium, or physical stores out there. People might need to pay a little more for it, but they do exist. Not everyone buys everything from the same super stores.
Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by UtopiaPunk on Monday August 07, 2023 @10:22PM (#37043703)
What are some of your favorites (tech or otherwise)?
Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by skydhash on Monday August 07, 2023 @11:08PM (#37044035)
Keyboardio

Roost Stand

Accessories4less

Svsound

Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by giantg2 on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @12:06AM (#37044406)
Small local businesses, like homebrew shops. Seed companies like Rare Seeds, Gurney, etc. Mushroom places like The Cultured Mushroom, Liquid Fungi.
Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by prmoustache on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @06:55AM (#37047132)
Yes. In term of online store it is better to look for the ones specializing in a specific market than wholesale stores.
Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by zebomon on Monday August 07, 2023 @10:02PM (#37043550)
I really don't see how one follows the other without then in sequence, as the comment you replied to describes, value-based businesses emerge to fill the obvious gap and compete.
Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by dylan604 on Monday August 07, 2023 @10:11PM (#37043638)
people still shop at Amazon, so I'm not too convinced in your argument
Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by 2muchcoffeeman on Monday August 07, 2023 @11:15PM (#37044077)
It’s the delivery. I can often get something inconsequential for net cheaper, faster from Amazon. Local stock is usually next day. And I can often get stuff internationally cheaper and faster through Amazon than the real retailer.

You’d have to duplicate this to take them on.

Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by dylan604 on Monday August 07, 2023 @11:19PM (#37044104)
step by step that slope gets just a little more slippery, or is it the frog in the pot of boiling water?
Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by 2muchcoffeeman on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @06:29PM (#37056339)
The delivery part of the service is really good when things go right.

Very difficult to get a hold of someone when they lose a package even when they explicitly tell you “contact us”.

But if you stick to inconsequential items, it’s great. I needed a few USBC cables and charging cables the other day and got them next day at half the price. I checked the local stores and none had what I was after.

But yeah, I agree with your point

Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by Semaphor on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @05:23AM (#37046455)
I have gotten a fake product one time (public domain book, PoD instead of what I wanted and what apparently used to be under that URL) refunded, no questions asked, even got to keep the book (anyone in Germany interested in an HP Lovecraft decent quality hardcover PoD book?).

I realize that it’s apparently way worse in the US, but there supposedly are issues here as well, I just never encountered them (or the products are so well-faked that it’s a distinction without a difference).

Fast delivery, a lot of choices, both "Aliexpress but faster delivery for a price", but also EU products, and a customer service that does pretty much anything asked.

Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by stOneskull on Monday August 07, 2023 @10:03PM (#37043556)
there'll still be people and communication. and so, word-of-mouth.
Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by prmoustache on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @06:39AM (#37046985)
People might revert to buy in person.

I mean you get scammed maybe twice by a company, then buy somewhere else. You quickly realize that it is better spending 3-4 times the amount of money for something that will last 10 years than buying stuff that do not work or keep breaking after a few months/years.

I am too poor to be able to afford buying cheap stuff.

Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by phpisthebest on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @06:44AM (#37047024)
If that was going to happen, it already would have.

Most people still just buy the cheapest version of an item they are looking for.

Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by ben_w on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @06:49AM (#37047065)
I'm already switching to buying in person, though in my case because of the delivery service usually redirecting to depots further away than the shops selling the same items.
Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by wombat-man on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @09:07AM (#37048424)
Yeah, I'd rather go to target or something and choose from the 3 spatulas they have then spend any time trying to figure out which of the 1000 listings are good on amazon. It's just less work.
Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by sneak on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @09:26AM (#37048641)
It's not less time, however. It's easier and cheaper to buy all of the top 5 spatulas on amazon (and throw 4 away) than to drive to a strip mall and find parking.
Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by wombat-man on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @09:45AM (#37048884)
Lol, sure. Personally I don't like dealing with online returns and I dislike the idea of buying things just to immediately throw them in the garbage. I'm picking an item I plan to use regularly, I want to see it irl and know what I'm getting.

Also, I am not trying to hyper optimize my use of time, but rather I find the experience of huge selection, fake reviews mixed with sponsored listings to be very unpleasant. I have slightly more faith in quality control at a department store, or even a dedicated housewares store.

Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by phpisthebest on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @10:55AM (#37049890)
I try to optimize my happiness, and not talking to people in person makes me happy
Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by ben_w on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @09:51AM (#37048966)
It takes me longer to put my shoes on and walk down a few flights of stairs to reach the main entrance of my apartment, than to get from that entrance (by foot) to the nearest place selling spatulas.

One of the depots used by DHL when they "can't find" my building (even though the place predates the formation of the Soviet Union, let alone its collapse) is about a mile away and I don't have a car. This is fine unless it rains, but it's not even conveniently on my way to anything interesting.

Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by HideousKojima on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @09:17AM (#37048527)
Most people buy the cheapest version because they don't have a reliable way of knowing if the more expensive items are actually higher quality. It's a "market for lemons" problem:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons

Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by red-iron-pine on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @11:44AM (#37050759)
it's called Walmart, and already exists as an in-person option.
Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by sesteel on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @09:32AM (#37048719)
What Amazon is missing is buyers. Actual professional buyers who evaluate products and make determinations if products meet standards and deserves to be placed in front of customers.
Re:AI-generated books create a dumpster fire on Amazon and G... by checkyoursudo on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @10:20AM (#37049362)
For the most part, I already mostly buy stuff in person. For physical goods, I cannot stand not being able to hold, touch, examine a thing before buying it. Or at least the floor model or the exhibited item.

I bought a VOIP phone from the media store recently. When I was there looking at them, and feeling them etc, I was thinking how there is no way I could have picked the right one from an online shop. I might have never known there was something better, I guess. But being able to hold them helped me pick one I thought I would like.