Re:MOVEit body count closes in on 400 orgs, 20M+ individuals
by waihtis on Sunday July 23, 2023 @10:46AM
(#36835819)
Seems we've finally entered the era people were expecting in late 2020 - i.e. that Russian and US diplomatic ties being vaporized would lead into open mass exploitation of vulnerable US infra
Re:MOVEit body count closes in on 400 orgs, 20M+ individuals
by LinuxBender on Sunday July 23, 2023 @11:39AM
(#36836350)
I read it as another derivation of victims with an emphasis on the human impact. I am just guessing but they probably used that wording as so many sites are hacked every week we probably don't associate it with the human suffering in terms of financial and job losses it can cause. Some El Reg staff have accounts here, perhaps they might be willing to chime in. I don't know if Jessica has an account here.
Re:MOVEit body count closes in on 400 orgs, 20M+ individuals
by projektfu on Sunday July 23, 2023 @11:07AM
(#36836037)
I read "body count 400+ orgs" and thought that so many companies had been put out of business, didn't notice the individuals part too. Not knowing what MOVEit is, I assumed it was some kind of boycott. Kind of surprised that it meant that 400 organizations and possibly 20 million customers data exposed. Definitely bad wording for the headline.
Of course, it's the Register, they try to be clever with every headline.
Re:MOVEit body count closes in on 400 orgs, 20M+ individuals
by shrubble on Sunday July 23, 2023 @10:58AM
(#36835942)
Body count has different connotations depending on context, but in the sense of "compromised information about a person" I have never come across this usage previously.
Re:MOVEit body count closes in on 400 orgs, 20M+ individuals
by SkyMarshal on Sunday July 23, 2023 @11:21AM
(#36836182)
It’s not the clearest title, but it’s taken directly from the original source who seem to assume the reader has been following their reporting on it and know what it means.
Re:MOVEit body count closes in on 400 orgs, 20M+ individuals
by 23B1 on Sunday July 23, 2023 @11:57AM
(#36836527)
It's safe to say that headlines and headline writers (usually editors) are some of the biggest contributors to the culture wars and all-up dishonesty in modern discourse.
If you think about it, it was inevitable when incentives became more aligned with quick 'hot takes' and volume over signal/noise ratio.
Re:MOVEit body count closes in on 400 orgs, 20M+ individuals
by 23B1 on Sunday July 23, 2023 @01:38PM
(#36837661)
...and strangely, even quality sites like HN take the given headline instead of the lede. Some subreddits have a way to indicate 'misleading headline' – could be a great feature across all consolidators/curatorial social media.
Re:MOVEit body count closes in on 400 orgs, 20M+ individuals
by Gimpei on Sunday July 23, 2023 @12:07PM
(#36836641)
I can’t see how anyone is harmed by this usage. Seems more hyperbolic to me, or rather obsessive compulsive, which I say as someone who has struggled with OCD in the past. The impulse to constantly monitor and revise the minutiae of language for the slightest whiff of offense seems unhealthy to me, but maybe that’s just because of my predispositions.
Re:MOVEit body count closes in on 400 orgs, 20M+ individuals
by mrweasel on Sunday July 23, 2023 @01:00PM
(#36837250)
Agree, but it's The Register, they've always had a pretty unique and mostly humorous writing style. Not to dissimilar to The Economist, but learning slightly more into the humor.
Re:MOVEit body count closes in on 400 orgs, 20M+ individuals
by adhesive_wombat on Sunday July 23, 2023 @02:06PM
(#36837962)
It's a riff on British tabloid headlines, which will squeeze a pun, tortured analogy or a breathless overstatement into literally everything. The original clickbait before there were clicks involved.
Re:MOVEit body count closes in on 400 orgs, 20M+ individuals
by cratermoon on Sunday July 23, 2023 @11:09AM
(#36836060)
Aren't monocultures great? Remember back 20 years ago, when a dumb VBScript macro virus like Melissa or ILOVEYOU could spread across the entire ecosystem in a couple of days?
Re:MOVEit body count closes in on 400 orgs, 20M+ individuals
by throwaway894345 on Sunday July 23, 2023 @11:18AM
(#36836146)
SQL injection is super trivial to prevent, right? How are we still falling for this? Is there any compliance audit regime that would catch this (presumably DoE has some pretty strict compliance protocols?), or is all compliance stuff just security theater?
Re:MOVEit body count closes in on 400 orgs, 20M+ individuals
by Dalewyn on Sunday July 23, 2023 @11:23AM
(#36836192)
>SQL injection is super trivial to prevent, right? How are we still falling for this?
Because the bug is super trivial to fix, it's also super trivial to do. Not to mention, the human mind is naturally inclined to not care about trivial stuff, which leads to careless mistakes at many levels and thus Bobby Tables dropped out of school.
Re:MOVEit body count closes in on 400 orgs, 20M+ individuals
by magicalhippo on Sunday July 23, 2023 @11:57AM
(#36836532)
Not only more effort, but also the only way in certain cases as not everything supports parameterization. The IN operator for example is one where we fall back to string interpolation, though not directly with user values.
Re:MOVEit body count closes in on 400 orgs, 20M+ individuals
by throwaway894345 on Wednesday July 26, 2023 @05:25PM
(#36885278)
Don't pass interpolated strings to the SQL driver? It seems super easy to do `exec("select * from table where column1=?")` instead of `exec(sprintf("select * from table where column1='%s'", user_data))`. If someone is doing the latter and they're super junior, it's a teachable moment. If they're not super junior I'm wondering what else they're sloppy about and if they need handholding (or worse).
Re:MOVEit body count closes in on 400 orgs, 20M+ individuals
by johntiger1 on Sunday July 23, 2023 @12:12PM
(#36836696)
Unfortunately with security exploits, you're looking for the weakest link in a chain of X million people. All you need is one careless dev/analyst and you get compromised
Re:MOVEit body count closes in on 400 orgs, 20M+ individuals
by throwaway894345 on Sunday July 23, 2023 @02:03PM
(#36837919)
That makes sense, but the aerospace industry seems to be able to solve for sloppy devs. Why can’t we secure our national infrastructure similarly? (To be clear, I don’t think we need aerospace-grade correctness for every piece of DoE software, but surely we can solve for low hanging fruit like “SQL injection attacks”)
Re:MOVEit body count closes in on 400 orgs, 20M+ individuals
by perlgeek on Sunday July 23, 2023 @01:47PM
(#36837763)
Basically all these file transfer solutions are crap, from a quality and security perspective.
Procurement works by ticking off features of a list, possibly comparing prices. Quality and security are hard to quantify, and often cannot really assessed by the purchase managers themselves, so they don't play a major role in purchasing decisions.
Thus, vendors aren't really incentivized to make robust, reliable and secure software, they are incentivized to sell their software.
Re:MOVEit body count closes in on 400 orgs, 20M+ individuals
by rainonmoon on Sunday July 23, 2023 @07:16PM
(#36840978)
You could say that about most of the OWASP Top 10. If the discourse is any way to judge, most web developers are more invested in constantly re-litigating JavaScript framework wars than learning the extremely trivial design patterns that would resolve most of their security issues. Speaking as a penetration tester, the things devs will let go to prod while managing the information of millions of customers is enough to make you lose hope in the concept of digital infrastructure.
Re:MOVEit body count closes in on 400 orgs, 20M+ individuals
by darkclouds on Sunday July 23, 2023 @12:55PM
(#36837188)
> Despite being one of the compromised companies, the TJX spokesperson added: "We do not believe there was any unauthorized access to any customer or associate personal information on TJX's systems or any material impact to TJX."
However, are legislators trying to kill the golden goose, has the money printing exercise called quantitive easing given them an unfounded level of hubris for their central bank purchased national debt?
Re:MOVEit body count closes in on 400 orgs, 20M+ individuals
by ackondro on Sunday July 23, 2023 @02:00PM
(#36837897)
I'm not saying this is how it happened, but this is why they may be able to say that. When working with similarly sized companies, I am required to encrypt the files (PGP zip) and transmit over a secure encrypted channel (SFTP). Normally, those companies will use a feature of Moveit to automatically do the PGP encryption/decryption.
However, TJX could have written their security policy such that their Moveit server was not allowed to use that feature, so they used a different piece of software to do the encrypt/decrypt outside of Moveit. Thus, hacking the TJX server would only get a bunch of unencrypted reports and encrypted files with personal info in them. Again, I'm not saying this was what actually happened.
Re:MOVEit body count closes in on 400 orgs, 20M+ individuals
by IronWolve on Sunday July 23, 2023 @01:37PM
(#36837644)
Over and over, so much middleware software is abandoned due to the high level of customization and expense to replace it. Everyone knows old databases still being kept around, a spaghetti mix of highly configured software packages/vendors nobody wants to touch or pay to get replaced.
And the high expense of contractors to customize and migrate, keeps the legacy tech debt around.
But that is also what keeps an entire industry making money, and many legacy mom/pop shops employed for decades.
Re:MOVEit body count closes in on 400 orgs, 20M+ individuals
by jeroenhd on Sunday July 23, 2023 @02:00PM
(#36837899)
> The May 31 bug – a SQL injection vulnerability – was the first. Progress patched this one, tracked as CVE-2023-34362, the next day. A second bug, CVE-2023-35036, came to light on June 9, and was also patched the next day.
> Progress disclosed a third hole, CVE-2023-35708, on June 15.
> Finally (we hope), three additional vulnerabilities – CVE-2023-36934, CVE-2023-36932, and CVE-2023-36933 – were spotted and fixed on July 5.
It seems like fixes came out the same day or the day after the problems were discovered. Yet an estimated 23% of customers are still vulnerable to the recent CVEs.
It seems to me that there's more going on than just shitty security practices by Progress Software, as reported on by this article. The fixes are out, the problems are known, and the fixes are available.
Re:MOVEit body count closes in on 400 orgs, 20M+ individuals
by KyleSanderson on Sunday July 23, 2023 @02:07PM
(#36837976)
The thing that's missing from the article is that they did no security advisory announcement for the July 5th release (they have a mailing list), and instead hid it in a service pack. Overall just terrible behaviour around security.
Do others agree or am I being hyperbolic?
Of course, it's the Register, they try to be clever with every headline.
If you think about it, it was inevitable when incentives became more aligned with quick 'hot takes' and volume over signal/noise ratio.
The darkpattern of our times.
Did the victims die?
It would have been much more readable to write "victim count".
Would you say it's "problematic"? :)
Funny and "cringey" titles are a staple of the Register since the beginning.
https://psr.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/body-count.pdf
Because the bug is super trivial to fix, it's also super trivial to do. Not to mention, the human mind is naturally inclined to not care about trivial stuff, which leads to careless mistakes at many levels and thus Bobby Tables dropped out of school.
Tt's very easy to do it incorrectly.
It's at best equal... unless there is some SQL driver/client somewhere that disallows hardcoded strings everywhere (that would actually really help).
Procurement works by ticking off features of a list, possibly comparing prices. Quality and security are hard to quantify, and often cannot really assessed by the purchase managers themselves, so they don't play a major role in purchasing decisions.
Thus, vendors aren't really incentivized to make robust, reliable and secure software, they are incentivized to sell their software.
Every single aspect of a persons confidential info.
Everything from SSN to eye and hair color.
I love how legislators have upped the ante for (big) businesses to survive, to the point some will appear to perjure themselves in public as the lessor evil. https://gdpr-info.eu/issues/fines-penalties/#:~:text=For%20e....
However, are legislators trying to kill the golden goose, has the money printing exercise called quantitive easing given them an unfounded level of hubris for their central bank purchased national debt?
However, TJX could have written their security policy such that their Moveit server was not allowed to use that feature, so they used a different piece of software to do the encrypt/decrypt outside of Moveit. Thus, hacking the TJX server would only get a bunch of unencrypted reports and encrypted files with personal info in them. Again, I'm not saying this was what actually happened.
And the high expense of contractors to customize and migrate, keeps the legacy tech debt around.
But that is also what keeps an entire industry making money, and many legacy mom/pop shops employed for decades.
> Progress disclosed a third hole, CVE-2023-35708, on June 15.
> Finally (we hope), three additional vulnerabilities – CVE-2023-36934, CVE-2023-36932, and CVE-2023-36933 – were spotted and fixed on July 5.
It seems like fixes came out the same day or the day after the problems were discovered. Yet an estimated 23% of customers are still vulnerable to the recent CVEs.
It seems to me that there's more going on than just shitty security practices by Progress Software, as reported on by this article. The fixes are out, the problems are known, and the fixes are available.