I predict these children will have more social issues in adulthood and thrive less well than those who had smartphones when they were younger.

Here is evidence for screen time being dose dependent after more than 1 hour, but it is old so none of the kids in that study had grown up with smartphones https://www.researchgate.net/publication/283687526_Dose-resp...

This is a summary article: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7012622/ you will find the dose dependt point is the first paragraph under the heading "Key Points".

As if banning phones until 13 is really going to have that kind of impact. Come on. Those poor kids, can't get on TikTok.

When did you first get access to a computer? How has that affected your subsequent life and career?

But to answer the question: patterns of socialization that their peers will follow. How to work around surveillance and filtering. How (and why) to jailbreak locked hardware.

Stuff you can't even know you're missing out, because you don't know what you don't know

Maybe calling someone without a heads up is considered rude, or ending sentences with a period is considered passive aggressive, maybe responding to someone right away is considered desperate or using certain words is okay IRL but not online

I agree that kids having smartphones is not good, but isolating an individual or small group from ostensibly the rest of the world in inconsistent ways that may interact in even worse ways is something you should be careful with, you might just be marking them for life

People thinking that an electronic device is good for a kid and it's just a matter of self control or parenting has a fairly strong biais and never spent time with a kid or forgot what is it to be one.

Most adults seem to forget all their memories of their childhood, particularly if they become parents at which point they forget everything instantly.

I'm not sure why this is, what this phenomenon is called (if it has a name), and I would sincerely appreciate a scientific explanation if there is one. I still remember my childhood from about 4 years old onward as a guy in his mid 30s, so I simply can't relate to it.

First one being, is your kid feeling safe enough with you to discuss any topics? I know I couldn't. I have seen way too many kids having already social media pressure, including my own kid with a fairly low level of screen time across the board (I'd say 4h-8h a week maximum including a movie on Sunday morning, depending if she wants to play around with python or some GT7) this allows also some interesting discussions.

I fully believe that, for the previous generation's internet.

Today children have unrestricted access to God knows what is on the internet and social media. This is not a recipe for success. Parents need to get involved.

[1] https://jonathanhaidt.substack.com/p/sapien-smartphone-repor...

My physical and mental health has declined significantly since I've been 'always online'. Learning new skills in an age of endless distractions is harder too, despite the amount of educational resources online that should make it easier.

And no I did not have access to my parent's bar to drink vodka and brandy whenever I felt like as a 12 year old to "prepare me to real world".

Trouble is, you’re way too old to understand the implications of not being in touch with your social group. If everyone else is in the loop but you’re not, your dead, socially. If you’re especially unlucky, you’ll be treated as the weirdo outcast with Luddite parents. You cannot imagine how mean kids are. This problem is bigger than you think. Having to live through years of shaming and being alone causes trouble later in life.

Funnily enough, though I grew up in the ’90s–’00s with parents who disliked TV and popular movies and heavily restricted media consumption in the household, nobody at school ever made fun of the fact that I’d never seen Friends or The Matrix. Later when I was in college I often saw people who’d grown up with access to popular media saying they’d feel socially deprived if they didn’t watch the latest new show. Personally I didn’t feel deprived, either at the time or in retrospect, even though today I greatly enjoy catching up on movies I never watched. I think there’s something to the idea that some restriction, particularly in childhood, can be healthy.

If I had a time machine, maybe I’d give my seventh‐grade self white socks and boxer shorts and see if that made any difference.

This might not being the kid that didn't watch popular stuff, this might be making a kid alien to an enviroment they will have to deal with for the rest of their life; They might adapt well, or maybe they'll develop a "mark", an "accent" of sorts, which distinguishes them from the rest of the group

I agree that restriction or adversity might be healthy, but paraphrasing House "Then why stop there? Poke a stick in her eye, imagine how healthy they'll be then"

Somehow they are nowhere nearly as mentally screwed up as their own children

Path A: you’re shown the meme; “lmfao, nice” — now you’ve broken ice or strengthened a bond

Path B: “nah” — “whatever”

——

Don’t send your kids to a run of the mill public school — which is infested with children of asshats, jackasses, and assholes. Don’t live in in that sort of community. If you can help it, these will be some of the biggest factors in how your kid turns out.

I’ve been to a lot of schools. Kids from parents that just don’t give a shit will turn out like them: vampires, parasites, and people that generally drag others down for their own benefit (unless they’re lucky and get out).

Mean kids come from mean families. Usually people are mean because they don’t have the resources to fill whatever hole they have in them — and have to use maladaptions to get their fix. I.e. money problems and never taught the skills or given the resources to ease them.

I.e. send your kid to a private school that is recommended by people you trust. Just like you would a dentist, or a mechanic, and so on.

Easier said than done, but not an unsolvable problem.

This is so obvious to me(from reading, observation and my own experience in public school) that I don't understand why smart, educated people don't realize this.

No way I'm going to send my kids to the cesspool that is public school if I can help it. People can call me and my family privileged all they want. What should I do, downgrade my child's education and life because it's not fair I have the resources others don't?

There are mean kids, and kind kids, and good schools and bad schools. There's a variety of experience here to take into account.

There are good families and bad families.

There are... variables. Yes, being a social outcast is hard. I would argue that being a social outcast involves _a lot more_ than not having access to the latest memes. That's where the misunderstanding lies.

No matter the other variables, that is a pretty common theme for teens nowadays, no matter the community they live in or school they go to.

While this is a case of were there should be a dedicated machine, until that appears, the phone is a decent middle man machine.

Silly we have to throw all kids mental health and attention spans down the toilet just to satisfy some fringe cases like this that all existed before smartphones.

I graduated college in 2018. Some of my classmates weren’t allowed to use “screens” growing up, and you could tell instantly. They struggled to use google to do basic research, struggled to collaborate in group projects, and were generally a burden to others, constantly needing help with technology.

My nephew could competently use a phone (use apps, update settings, understand installing things, etc) when he was 6. A 13 year old will be able to catch up in a week.

I spent a while working in tech support for small to medium businesses, and boy, did those people have trouble to understand the basic interaction with their computers. Instead of learning the paradigms and applying them to general situations, they would memorise where on the screen to click, in which order.

You’re uncharitable view of generation Z is pretty much proven wrong if that is your assumption on what you can do on Instagram, though. Looks like a classic „my generation was the last good one, everyone else born after is stupid and lazy!“

> what you can do on Instagram,

Lol. Err what can you do on Instagram that is a demonstration of deep technical understanding?

Excluding people who are technical, whether by hobby or profession, everyone I know between 35 and 50 or so at least loosely understands things like the difference between a website and a locally executing program, the difference between local and cloud storage, the tradeoff between iOS-style walled gardens and relative openness of Android or PC (whichever side their own personal preferences happen to fall on), the difference between SMS and iMessage, and so on.

People under 30 -- again, excluding programmers, obviously there is no shortage of talented and knowledgeable young people in the industry -- overwhelmingly don't seem to be even capable of understanding any of these things.

Smartphones don't teach you anything technical in the slightest, most of them are extremely dumbed down black boxes engineered specifically so the lowest common denominator won't get lost on them.

They'll still have access to laptops & computers and whatnot at home, but kids just don't need smartphones that early on, or at least not ones with unlimited bandwith and access to putrid entities like tiktok and instagram.

---

[1] https://www.theverge.com/22684730/students-file-folder-direc...

Among the rich. In so many ways, we’re creating a class system based on attention span.

The US might be different, the amount of stuff a school board, for one single school, HOAs or city councils can legislate is just mind boggling sometimes.