News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by resolutebat on Friday May 26, 2023 @12:42AM (#36080027)
If you're in the market, go for a couple of test drives. The competition is mostly regular ICE cars with a battery bolted on, while Teslas are designed from ground up as EVs and it shows throughout in ways big and small. We were originally leaning towards getting a Polestar, but the difference between driving one and a Tesla is night and day.
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by tapoxi on Friday May 26, 2023 @01:41AM (#36080422)
I drive an ID4 after looking at the Model Y. It's a ground up EV and a solid competitor. As a family crossover it's great. The software is pretty dumb but that's mostly avoided thanks to wireless Android Auto and CarPlay.

What won me over: Rear window was easier to see through, the above mentioned Carplay/AA support, not a fan of Tesla's extreme minimalism extending to things like air vents, brand tainted by Musk.

Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by fps-hero on Friday May 26, 2023 @02:43AM (#36080828)
I test drove a Polestar 2, what are these car designers thinking with rear view visibility!

The between the rear headrests and huge slanted C-pillars you had a tiny sheet of paper sized opening to see out. I honestly thought the mirrors were adjusted wrong and were looking at the roof. Couple that with a half-baked 360 reversing camera that turned every obstacle into a trapezoidal blur, reversing parking that car between two other cars at the end of the drive was terrifying experience.

Nice car though.

Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by alkonaut on Friday May 26, 2023 @03:08AM (#36081003)
You only need the rear view for keeping an eye on traffic behind while on the road, so basically the window should be the size of the FoV in your rear view mirror.

For parking, I don't think I have looked at anything but cameras for the last 15 years. The camera is so much better than both looking backwards and using the center mirror. Especially with 360 cameras because you can then "look" backwards without missing anything happening elsewhere. I definitely bought my last car without 360 cameras several years ago.

Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by Gravityloss on Friday May 26, 2023 @07:04AM (#36082559)
And kids running behind the car when reversing. Honestly, visibility is in the top five criteria for me (others include driver's seat, sound proofing and big boot lid). Parking sensors and cameras of course help but are they a total substitute?
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by detaro on Friday May 26, 2023 @07:08AM (#36082589)
The kids case is one where camera has a clear benefit I'd say. Even if you have clear visibility to the rear window, you just can't see anything below the window height. And anyone coming from the sides you'd not see through the rear window either - but a very open vehicle might be a tad better through the side windows? Although with cameras being added to side mirrors or vehicle corners (and large screens!), that can also be expanded.
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by CalRobert on Friday May 26, 2023 @07:42AM (#36082829)
A good reason to have the windows down when reversing - at least then you have the benefit of hearing any kids behind you as well.
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by alkonaut on Friday May 26, 2023 @09:49AM (#36084089)
Total substitute. And they have to be, because once you have them you ONLY look at the screen. There is no chance I'm even glancing in the useless top mirror, nor over my shoulder. I do switch between rear camera and 360 camera though, but it varies between car brands if that's necessary. In the best implementations you see both at the same time.
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by camillomiller on Friday May 26, 2023 @02:52AM (#36080891)
Well the new Polestar solved the problem… by removing the rear window altogether and slapping a camera in its place. Not joking, look it up!
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by mschuster91 on Friday May 26, 2023 @05:32AM (#36081970)
How the fuck is that even road legal?
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by wizzzzzy on Friday May 26, 2023 @05:39AM (#36082014)
There's plenty of vans that don't have any rear windows
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by latchkey on Friday May 26, 2023 @09:39PM (#36091292)
My campervan (Promaster 2500) has rear windows, but it isn't like I can see anything out of them when I'm driving. Usually just leave them covered anyway.
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by qup on Friday May 26, 2023 @05:46AM (#36082058)
I've only ever heard of a requirement for 2 mirrors. Those can be on the outside.
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by singleshot_ on Friday May 26, 2023 @05:18PM (#36089628)
Varies by state in the us. Some require two mirrors and one must be outside on the left. Some are similar but on the right. Some states you need two outside if the one inside is blocked.
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by SideburnsOfDoom on Friday May 26, 2023 @06:12AM (#36082205)
because you can see what's behind you? Via the camera, but that'd just a detail.
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by thevagrant on Friday May 26, 2023 @07:50AM (#36082870)
I've had plenty of car cameras glitch out or stop working.
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by stephencanon on Friday May 26, 2023 @08:39AM (#36083260)
To say nothing of getting crusted with road salt anytime you drive in winter.
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by SideburnsOfDoom on Friday May 26, 2023 @11:26AM (#36085404)
I said that it's possible to get better. Not inevitable.
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by SideburnsOfDoom on Friday May 26, 2023 @06:15AM (#36082228)
This is the Polestar 4 without the actual rear window https://uk.motor1.com/news/663436/why-polestar-4-has-no-rear...

Aside, IDK if the Polestar 4 is "the new Polestar".

The Polestar 2 is on the roads - I've seen them, and the 3 hasn't even shipped yet, now due in 2024: https://electrek.co/2023/05/11/polestar-delays-polestar-3-pr...

What does that make the 4?

Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by ryantgtg on Tuesday May 30, 2023 @10:48AM (#36125525)
I have a Y, and yeah the back window is a slit. Especially noticeable driving at night. It’s frustrating.
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by princevegeta89 on Friday May 26, 2023 @01:11AM (#36080214)
Off topic, but Musk v2.0 after the pandemic has been acting as a madman, and making pricing changes all over the board. We booked a Y, but the problem is they removed the $100 per month EAP subscription which could be a real beater for using it in an on-demand basis. Hopefully it comes back.
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by throwaway2037 on Friday May 26, 2023 @02:05AM (#36080599)
Is EAP "Enhanced Auto-Pilot" (self-driving)?
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by princevegeta89 on Friday May 26, 2023 @03:25AM (#36081118)
Yeah, it's the enhanced autopilot. It's not self- driving though, the only thing it does on its own is change lanes automatically and park itself and come out of a parking spot to get you
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by bdcravens on Friday May 26, 2023 @12:58AM (#36080142)
The eGMP platform options from Hyundai (Hyundia Ioniq 5 and 6, Kia EV6, Genesis GV60) were also built in a dedicated manner.

While I have an EV6 (and my wife an ID.4), if I was on the market now, there's a ton of low-mileage Model 3 and Y out there, and the prices have come down significantly.

Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by jmcphers on Friday May 26, 2023 @01:31AM (#36080361)
I test drove a Tesla and an EV6 and wound up with the EV6. Tesla's got a lot going for them but their lead is quickly evaporating.
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by andruby on Friday May 26, 2023 @03:35AM (#36081185)
I looked at both too, and bought a model Y. What were the deciding factors for you?

I liked the Tesla software and easy supercharger access. The model Y also felt more spacious, especially in the trunk.

I would summarise it as a much better UX in the model Y.

Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by yurishimo on Friday May 26, 2023 @06:41AM (#36082393)
* * *
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by bdcravens on Friday May 26, 2023 @05:18PM (#36089626)
I cancelled a Model 3 order and went with an EV6. My reasons:

- quality concerns (which possibly are overstated for the average purchase)

- worries over phantom braking

- V2L

- CarPlay

- I was swayed by Elon's politics, but that likely wouldn't have mattered if it had been a slam dunk decision for me.

- Supercharger network is a lesser concern for me, as I own my home. I did do a road trip from Houston to San Diego and back. As far as I could tell, between major cities, EA vs Supercharger coverage was equivalent along the relatively unpopulated stretches of I-10 and I-8

However, given the price differential now vs then, I would likely go for a low mileage used Model 3 now.

Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by jmcphers on Thursday June 01, 2023 @01:37PM (#36154596)
For me, deciding factors:

- Cockpit -- EV6 has a panoramic (horizontal) display, plentiful buttons, and a heads-up display. I found this much more ergonomic for my eyes and hands than Tesla's all-in-one center-mounted display.

- Availability of Android Auto/CarPlay -- Tesla's software is more polished than Kia's but I'd rather project my phone. All my stuff's on it.

- EV6 is the #1 recommendation for its class in Consumer Reports as well as #1 in projected dependability for same.

Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by hnburnsy on Friday May 26, 2023 @08:55AM (#36083427)
At least in North America I don't think this is true. GM can't reliably produce the Lyriq or Hummer and is ending the Bolt. Ford has stagnate sales on the MachE and Lighting porduction was stopped during Q1. Toyota and Honda are MIA.
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by tallytarik on Friday May 26, 2023 @12:47AM (#36080070)
Out of curiosity, what did you prefer about the Tesla over the Polestar?
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by resolutebat on Friday May 26, 2023 @12:52AM (#36080095)
The minimalist cabin is the obvious one: it's more spacious and feels much more spacious thanks to the glass roof. I did have severe doubts about the touchscreen and lack of controls, but in practice this has been a non-issue, there are tactile controls for everything you need to actually drive and voice controls for everything you don't (climate, music, etc). The glove box is just stupid though.
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by dieortin on Friday May 26, 2023 @01:13AM (#36080236)
You do realize this has nothing to do with it being built from the start as an electric vehicle right?

And as far as I know, the polestar is designed as an EV too.

Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by resolutebat on Friday May 26, 2023 @01:22AM (#36080300)
The Polestar 2 is built on Volvo/Geely's CMA platform and is very similar to the ICE Volvo XC40.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_Modular_Architecture_p...

Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by killjoywashere on Friday May 26, 2023 @01:26AM (#36080325)
Meh, my wife was grooving for a Polestar so I rented a Polestar 1 for a weekend and we both came away feeling like it was good to rent because we definitely didn’t want to buy it. It was like the Swedes put all their effort into the material design and gave no shits about the UX. The UX was something Ford would have been proud of in 2009.
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by svorakang on Friday May 26, 2023 @02:11AM (#36080631)
PS1 was a low volume car, almost concept level. The UX of PS2, a large volume car, is much better and generally very well received.
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by dagw on Friday May 26, 2023 @04:56AM (#36081716)
Also the PS1 isn't an EV, it's a hybrid.
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by elif on Friday May 26, 2023 @01:46AM (#36080461)
It really does though.. the model Y storage area folds flat completely and my 6'5 self can lay flat with extra leg room and sit up straight with plenty of headroom.

There is no body designed around the constraints of routing exhaust or transmission elements. It is just an empty box.

Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by comte7092 on Friday May 26, 2023 @11:05AM (#36085145)
The polestar 2 is built off of an ICE platform.

The first polestar built off of a dedicated EV platform will be the polestar 3.

Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by cperciva on Friday May 26, 2023 @02:03AM (#36080578)
feels much more spacious thanks to the glass roof.

My Polestar 2 has a glass roof too. I think it's part of the "plus" pack?

Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by resolutebat on Friday May 26, 2023 @02:26AM (#36080727)
The Polestar 2 glass roof is a little glass pane cut into the roof that costs $5000 extra. On the Model 3/Y, the entire roof is glass.
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by cjrp on Friday May 26, 2023 @06:09AM (#36082184)
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by innocentoldguy on Friday May 26, 2023 @02:24AM (#36080721)
I went with a Tesla over a Polestar because the Tesla has more range, is a lot more efficient, and has more power than the Polestar.
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by bushbaba on Friday May 26, 2023 @01:09AM (#36080201)
Have you driven an id4? Similar to Tesla the id platform was built for EVs.
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by innocentoldguy on Friday May 26, 2023 @02:29AM (#36080747)
I'm a huge fan of VW, but the ID.4 is pretty gutless compared to any Tesla model. That may appeal to some people, but I like speeding; a lot.
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by nekoashide on Friday May 26, 2023 @08:49AM (#36083363)
I watched Doug DeMuro latest video on the ID.4 and he says it's not fast. On one hand performance might not be needed for a people mover. On the other hand people expect EV's to have superior performance.
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by bushbaba on Friday May 26, 2023 @08:02PM (#36090856)
Faster than a CRV, RAV4 etc. market for id4 isn’t looking for 0-60 that’s 3 secs. It’s plenty fast for what it is.
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by bitsoda on Sunday May 28, 2023 @02:24PM (#36106467)
The 2024 ID.4 will likely have an option for their new APP550 motor which will produce 282 hp and a maximum torque of 406 lb-ft. This should help bring it in line with the Y, but probably at a higher cost initially until they can scale production.
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by fnord77 on Friday May 26, 2023 @01:20AM (#36080284)
The Kia EV6 is a ground up EV and is better in every way than the Model Y
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by pulse7 on Friday May 26, 2023 @05:32AM (#36081969)
EV6 has V2L while Model Y has no V2L... (V2L = Vehicle-to-Load = connect any electric appliance to your car with standard 110V/230V socket...)
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by dmd on Friday May 26, 2023 @08:14AM (#36083085)
For all those times I'm sitting out in the driveway and want to plug in a refrigerator? I honestly cannot figure out what to do with that feature.
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by bryanlarsen on Friday May 26, 2023 @10:29AM (#36084631)
Exactly that. When the power goes out you use an extension cord between your car and the refrigerator in the summer or the car and the furnace fan in the winter.
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by dmd on Friday May 26, 2023 @10:36AM (#36084734)
Ah. I'm lucky to live somewhere where that's not really an issue (in 15 years living here we've had a total of 40 minutes of power outages, according to my UPS logs), so I forget that IS an issue for a lot of people.
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by cbeach on Friday May 26, 2023 @06:21PM (#36090194)
I found the EV6 dark and claustrophobic on the inside, and uglier than the Model Y from the rear. Really dislike those weird droopy/saggy lines on the EV6 rear end.

Aside from that, if you want range, the Y beats the EV6, although the EV6 charges faster (theoretically - if you can find a 350 kW charger, and if the rate can be sustained)

Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by anovikov on Friday May 26, 2023 @03:06AM (#36080986)
Sadly, in countries where no Tesla dealerships exist, it's next to impossible to buy unless you have truly unlimited budget. Model Y is in the same effective price range as Bentley: pay $100K in cash then pay $20K for each service or repair (because car has to be shipped 500 miles away on a boat and serviced there, takes 2 months and $20K). And you keep driving your Bentley in the meantime :)

That's situation here in Cyprus, thus in spite of a lot of people with money willing to buy, only 0.8% of cars sold are electric vs ~20% in poorer countries that do have Tesla dealerships. Because when Tesla is there, everyone else tries hard to sell their electrics too.

Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by londons_explore on Friday May 26, 2023 @04:24AM (#36081505)
There are third parties who can do most servicing.... Obviously you don't get the benefits of the warranty though, so you're probably better off buying a Tesla where the warranty has already expired.

And there are plenty of car ferries to/from Cyprus, so you can get one there for under €100.

Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by KennyBlanken on Friday May 26, 2023 @04:16AM (#36081458)
> The competition is mostly regular ICE cars with a battery bolted on,

Most automakers have long since stopped basing their electric cars on platforms designed for ICE cars that have have EV components badly squeezed into whatever space they can 'find'.

They've been making platforms designed specifically to include EV drivetrain components for a while, and many have shifted to EV-specific platforms.

There's also literally nothing wrong with platform-sharing, by the way; it's more efficient use of design, manufacturing, and service/support networks. The "it must be PURELY designed from the GROUND UP to be a EV" is largely marketing who-haa that hasn't been relevant for a while.

The Ford Lightning? It's largely based off the F150. Who cares? It's still a brilliant car that has been selling like hotcakes and will convert a TON of good-ol-boy types to driving an electric vehicle.

But here's a list of cars with EV-specific platforms:

* Audi e-tron * BMW i-series * Chevy Bolt and Bolt EUV, as well as their entire Ultium platform of cars, which I believe includes the HUMMER) * Porsche Taycan * Ford Mach-E * Hyundai Ioniq 5 (and Kia equivalent) * Lucid Air * Rivian * Mercedes EQS * VW ID series * Polestar

I'm probably forgetting some?

All have things Tesla doesn't: an extensive dealer network for sales and service, a healthy parts distribution channel, the build quality and reliability people expect from such an expensive car, no worries about bullshit like being banned from getting parts because the company thinks your vehicle shouldn't be on the road, transmission/motor units that are properly sealed so they can be driven in heavy rain and through puddles without issue, windows that spontaneously shatter, their cars randomly braking on the highway, self-driving systems that like to slam into the back of emergency vehicles on the shoulder...

Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by nindalf on Friday May 26, 2023 @04:24AM (#36081507)
> The Ford Lightning? It's largely based off the F150.

Is it? Feels like it was designed to be an EV, considering it has a massive frunk.

Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by ianai on Friday May 26, 2023 @05:19AM (#36081863)
Two things that seem in contention can be true at the same time. They made a sled for the EV, like ie common for EVs. They built the top of it to match the F150. Both true. I’d say it’s a full fledged EV design and an F150.

Just wish we had the battery breakthrough needed to give these vehicles some real range.

Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by consp on Friday May 26, 2023 @04:47AM (#36081648)
The Ford Mach-E is a modified C2 platform with lots of modifications but definitely not a fresh design. The comparable C2 combustion platform would be the Third gen Kuga/ Fourth gen Escape/Focus.
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by bdsa on Friday May 26, 2023 @06:49AM (#36082451)
>All have things Tesla doesn't:

> ... windows that spontaneously shatter, their cars randomly braking on the highway, self-driving systems that like to slam into the back of emergency vehicles on the shoulder...

Scary! :)

Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by pleb_nz on Friday May 26, 2023 @04:18AM (#36081469)
Few other brands winning EV car of the year these days. Tesla isn't the only good choice as ground up EV any longer.
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by victor106 on Friday May 26, 2023 @07:31AM (#36082745)
> the difference between driving one and a Tesla is night and day.

The one thing I absolutely hated about driving a Tesla was regenerative breaking. They should’ve made it optional.

I loved the Ford Mach-e GT.

Consumer Reports had it as the best EV for reliability.

Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by drevil-v2 on Friday May 26, 2023 @07:41AM (#36082821)
Regen braking is optional. You can change it in the settings at any time while parked
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by matthewdgreen on Friday May 26, 2023 @07:46AM (#36082853)
It was optional in pre-2020 models but recent models have removed the option. This is one reason we didn't buy one a couple years ago. (If they've added the option back since then, please let me know!) https://insideevs.com/news/451393/tesla-removes-regenerative...
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by bryanlarsen on Friday May 26, 2023 @10:26AM (#36084596)
Its back: https://electrek.co/2023/04/24/tesla-brings-back-regenerativ...

It appears that Chinese regulators forced them to put it back.

Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by catketch on Friday May 26, 2023 @07:54AM (#36082909)
Not any more
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by itsoktocry on Friday May 26, 2023 @12:04PM (#36085967)
>The competition is mostly regular ICE cars with a battery bolted on, while Teslas are designed from ground up as EVs and it shows throughout in ways big and small.

This is not true, it's not 2017 anymore. Everyone is designing their EVs from "the ground up".

How is it that people can both think that Tesla will dominate because building EVs is simpler, but also that the legacy auto world can't figure out how to do it?

Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by rndmize on Friday May 26, 2023 @01:10PM (#36086930)
Because its been over a decade now, and somehow, they're still behind? If I'm honest though, to me it feels like a Kodak situation - the legacy companies could do it, but they like their existing product lines - the ones that bring in revenue today, that they know how to build, that only need small design adjustments each year, that work with their current structure of suppliers and dealers. Why worry about this new-fangled thing you'd have to spend a bunch of time and money to get right when its only going to be X% of your sales for years?

On the other hand, Tesla (and the other new electric companies) have nothing else. It's electric or die. It's carve a space out in the market now, while the legacy players are still dragging their feet, still figuring out battery issues or production issues Tesla dealt with 5-10 years ago, still figuring out how to make good software for the last 20 years, still trudging along as if things haven't much changed. Kodak didn't lose because digital cameras were harder, they lost because they didn't want to cannibalize their existing products with something easier and cheaper.