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Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by andy_ppp on Friday March 24, 2023 @12:11PM (#35291172)
I cannot believe supermarkets these days, it is insane the increases in prices, I’ve seen £5 for a tube of normal toothpaste and £6 for a tiny Pizza that is sometimes available for £3. How people on modest salaries survive I don’t know.

Quite often I’m starting to notice dark patterns in pricing where things you normally didn’t worry about will have randomly increased by £2-3 and you get the checkout and you’ve spent £25-30 on next to nothing.

I wonder if inequality increases caused by printing trillions of dollars during COVID are anything to do with this inflation? Could it be that making the rich endless more wealthy and increasing asset prices is bad for society?

How do we fix this? Some people think redistribution of the increases the wealthy have had over COVID back to the poor would be a good move, but is the all inequality?

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by UncleOxidant on Friday March 24, 2023 @12:18PM (#35291292)
I saw $6.99 for a pack of 12 flour tortillas yesterday. Could not believe it. At that price I'll try making my own.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by jlengrand on Friday March 24, 2023 @12:40PM (#35291696)
Trying to be positive in an ocean of poo, making your own tortillas is cheap, fast, kinda fun to do with kids and you can augment them for extra flavour. You can even batch prepare them in advance as long as they're not in contact with air.

Many of those are the same. Pizza dough : once a month take 30 minutes preparing 10 rolls and in the freezer.

And as a bonus, less chemicals in your system.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by bruce343434 on Friday March 24, 2023 @01:26PM (#35292481)
By far the most abundant chemical in any modern human is dihydrogen monoxide, I'm not sure that any hydrocarbon you will find in a tortilla is really even a comparison.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by jlengrand on Friday March 24, 2023 @02:50PM (#35293777)
Hey, incidentally that very chemical is a major part of the recipe! My bad, English isn't my native language. I guess I meant additives?
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by fknorangesite on Friday March 24, 2023 @03:19PM (#35294128)
> My bad

Nah, it's just that the comment you're responding to is being insufferably pedantic. Your colloquial use of "chemicals" here is perfectly well understood.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by andy_ppp on Saturday March 25, 2023 @06:20AM (#35301229)
Exactly, I despise people who say things like "everything is made of chemicals" or "vegetables are carbohydrates" when they perfectly know exactly what I mean.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by ben_w on Saturday March 25, 2023 @05:17PM (#35307485)
While the colloquial is well understood and @jlengrand shouldn't feel bad about using the word "chemical" in this way, on a nerd forum like this I think it's valid pedantry — our bodies are massively complex chemical reactions, and half the stuff I've borne witness to people in my life complaining about are genuinely useful one way or another, for example by preserving the food or making it taste better.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by fknorangesite on Sunday March 26, 2023 @12:19AM (#35310887)
While it may be useful to call out mystical woo when we see it, in this context the only thing doing so succeeded in was derailing the conversation.

We all understood the first time.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by jlengrand on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @01:36PM (#35344833)
I understand and appreciate that you want the terms used to be correct. I feel that the tone you used probably rubbed people the wrong way. Had you for example corrected me and given me the correct terms and definitions, I'm quite sure people would have appreciated the gesture. Actually, even up to now I'm not 100% sure what I should have used :). Additives, preservatives, ...?

BTW, interestingly in a previous life I studied chemistry... Only always in French

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by symlinkk on Friday March 24, 2023 @12:51PM (#35291892)
I find comments like this weird, I never think about purchases that small. I honestly have no idea how much I pay for tortillas normally but $7 would not even be a blip on my mental radar
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by willismichael on Friday March 24, 2023 @01:13PM (#35292228)
It's just one banana. What could it cost, ten dollars?
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by justsocrateasin on Friday March 24, 2023 @01:21PM (#35292393)
you've never actually set foot in a supermarket, have you??
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by Tade0 on Friday March 24, 2023 @01:32PM (#35292589)
This was a reference to some politician (I don't recall which) not knowing the price of a single banana.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by CamelCaseName on Friday March 24, 2023 @01:40PM (#35292739)
No. This is a reference to the show "Arrested Development"

Link to the scene: https://youtu.be/Nl_Qyk9DSUw

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by samstave on Friday March 24, 2023 @02:01PM (#35293102)
Love that scene.

Can't seem to find it - but some time ago there was a short vid on why the price of bananas world wide was a good litmus on the shipping/economic trade - it went into detail on how banana prices could be used to measure certain stress points in global trade... I cant seem to find it though.

However, in looking for it I found this, which is kind of interesting:

>>"Are there more international laws on the trade of bananas than conventional weapons, like AK-47s?"

>>"The short answer is astonishingly, yes. The global trade in bananas or banana plants is governed by at least three binding global agreements and the non-binding, though strictly adhered to, Codex food code. The arms trade is not governed by any binding global agreements."

-

https://politicsofpoverty.oxfamamerica.org/comparing-bananas...

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by fullstop on Friday March 24, 2023 @01:41PM (#35292754)
It's from Arrested Development.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by fennecfoxy on Monday March 27, 2023 @05:57AM (#35324754)
You're confusing the Arrested Development scene with this video probably: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5RiYxGahps of Boris Johnson claiming to eat Gregg's all the time, but not knowing the price (which I could excuse him for; I have Gregg's now & then & I can only remember the price as being "maybe a little over 1£".
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by karaterobot on Friday March 24, 2023 @01:30PM (#35292557)
I also do not think about the prices of (most) individual items, because I don't want to devote that much of my memory to the constantly fluctuating prices of dozens of small-ticket purchases. BUT, I do track my average weekly grocery bill, which is much easier to do, and it's been going up alarmingly fast. Is that what you meant?
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by lepus on Friday March 24, 2023 @01:05PM (#35292106)
If you don't know anyone who thinks about everyday purchases like this then you're in a social bubble. This is a normal concern for a lot of people.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by samstave on Friday March 24, 2023 @02:05PM (#35293160)
Funny anecdote:

Jeff Bezos was interviewed in Pay Pal days after making many millions, and as they drove across the GGB, was asked why he was still driving his beat up honda - he said "Why, just because I have some money? Its still a good car!"

FF 2020: Jeff Bezos builds worlds most expensive yacht, and is having a municiple bridge dismantled so it can pass through, and local residents want to throw eggs at it as it passes by!

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by moffkalast on Friday March 24, 2023 @02:37PM (#35293579)
I think we're all reading the wrong message from that quote. It's supposed to look like the guy's humble but that's just the miser entrepreneur mindset. Spend as little money on luxuries, spend as much as possible on making more money. The CEO at the company I work at is the same way, drives absolute banger cars in an effort to save money or something. I think he ends up paying more in repairs than if he just bought a new one.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by zeroonetwothree on Friday March 24, 2023 @04:57PM (#35295374)
If the car works fine, why waste time buying a new car. Even if doesn't care about money, surely even taking 1 hour or whatever isn't worth it.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by apexalpha on Saturday March 25, 2023 @04:26AM (#35300619)
>FF 2020: Jeff Bezos builds worlds most expensive yacht, and is having a municiple bridge dismantled so it can pass through, and local residents want to throw eggs at it as it passes by!

As someone from the country you're referring to: this is an internet meme... The bridge that was dismantled is meant to be dismantled for such a thing.

Jeff Bezos did not and also cannot order bridges to be dismantled.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by purpleturtle22 on Friday March 24, 2023 @01:07PM (#35292138)
This is because you probably make tech money (I do too).

My family was poor growing up and we shopped by cent per oz, and noticed any significant price changes and went for alternatives.

Planned dinner/produce/meat based off what was on sale, etc.

Many, many people notice when milk goes up 50 cents. I still do.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by Tade0 on Friday March 24, 2023 @01:44PM (#35292827)
I grew up lower middle-class and for a long time my tech salary kept my mind off such things, which was nice. I wanted to forget about that whole situation.

But I recently stopped buying in corner shops because their prices are usually close to 50% higher than in large supermarkets and with food inflation it makes a difference in my budget.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by samstave on Friday March 24, 2023 @02:26PM (#35293449)
I didnt grow up poor, and I have made "tech money" my entire career - but I very often check cent/oz on products - because I dont like being cheated at that level...

HOWEVER.

Annecdote:

I was at dinner in SF - and we were at a very nice restaurant, nice wine, food etc. My buddy was kvetching over buying this watch, which was something like $200 and was talking about how he wasnt sure if it was worth it...

I looked at him and said "We are spending over $200 on this bottle of wine tonight without blinking, which will be gone in moments - and youre kvetching over a $200 watch which will be around forever?"

Expense-perspective is something to reflect on.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by Kon-Peki on Friday March 24, 2023 @03:14PM (#35294071)
> I very often check cent/oz on products - because I dont like being cheated at that level.

You have to do this in the cereal aisle! All the different-sized boxes of the same exact cereal have wildly different price-per-weight. And the largest-sized box is rarely the cheapest-per-weight!

what surprised me is how expensive plain Cheerios have become. My wife explained it as if I were stupid - they are mostly whole grains and very little garbage. All the other cereals have so much crap in them that the input price hasn't increased as much.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by lotsofpulp on Friday March 24, 2023 @04:28PM (#35294978)
The grocery store near me sells a bigger box of multigrain Cheerios for less than the smaller box. The smaller box is on the eye level shelf, and the bigger box is on the bottom shelf, you have to bend down to get to it.

It has been like this for years. It is not just cheaper by unit, the whole box is just straight cheaper, but I can only assume people do not want to bend down? Even the prices are clearly visible from standing position.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by lozenge on Friday March 24, 2023 @05:11PM (#35295591)
Yep, it's common for the cheapest things to be on the bottom shelf as they make the store the least money. And the way to combat it - always choose something from the bottom shelf then look further up to see if there's something you would prefer.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by zeroonetwothree on Friday March 24, 2023 @04:58PM (#35295391)
The Trader Joe's cheerios equivalent is 3x cheaper and tastes the same
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by p1necone on Friday March 24, 2023 @05:51PM (#35296144)
I do the same - for some reason I agonize over purchases of "permanent" things like clothing, video games etc while not blinking an eye at spending the same on "temporary" things like restaurant meals or cocktails.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by tonguetrainer on Friday March 24, 2023 @06:04PM (#35296285)
You prioritize experiences over material goods. Nothing wrong with that.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by astockwell on Friday March 24, 2023 @01:08PM (#35292159)
And that is OK, as long as you recognize your position of extreme privilege there.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by symlinkk on Friday March 24, 2023 @01:21PM (#35292389)
I don’t think it’s “extreme privilege” to not notice a price increase of maybe $3? I could see it if you’re living in extreme poverty but anyone middle class and above shouldn’t waste mental energy on things like that
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by gorbachev on Friday March 24, 2023 @01:34PM (#35292630)
You don't have to live in "extreme poverty" to have to pay attention to every penny you use.

Expenses across the board have skyrocketed in the past year. Try and read some stories about what people living in colder, rural areas in Northern Europe (Scotland, Scandinavia, etc.) have had to deal with and you would start to get an idea.

If your rent suddenly increased by 30%, and winter heating bill tripled since last year and food costs 25% more than a year ago, then a lot of people with normally sufficient income would be having financial issues.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by bruce343434 on Friday March 24, 2023 @01:36PM (#35292675)
Consider growing more emphatic to those less well off than you.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by Ekaros on Friday March 24, 2023 @03:19PM (#35294125)
That is just single item, let's take buying something like 50 items a week and half of those go up by 3. So 75 more spend in week or 300 in a month. That is not exactly small amount for middle class.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by kbelder on Friday March 24, 2023 @08:01PM (#35297360)
It's certainly not limited to extreme poverty. I'd say the clear majority will show concern when a grocery item climbs $3.

While I wouldn't accuse you of showing "extreme privilege" for not noticing a $3 price increase... good on you for not needing to worry about that... I'm tempted to accuse you of it for thinking it's only the poor that would. That's a pretty glaring disconnect.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by ulfw on Friday March 24, 2023 @08:49PM (#35297811)
When a coffee costs $7 instead of $4, even if I could "afford it" is something any normal human being notices. Rich or poor. Being able to afford such change is a different story.

Do you not even look at your phone/credit card when you tap? Do you really just randomly pay things?

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by Shocka1 on Monday March 27, 2023 @01:20PM (#35329444)
As an anecdote, I have a mentor/friend who made 500k+ from the 1990s to present day. He once told me in a nonchalant way, "there was a point in my life where I realized I could basically buy whatever I wanted." Hearing him say this was like a different language for me.

There were several years early in my childhood where macaroni and cheese was one of the main courses in family meals, because we didn't have much money. This was until my parents worked multiple jobs and promoted their way into respectable wealth - hearing my friend make that comment really stuck with me and I laugh whenever I'm reminded of it, like today.

Anyway, I agree with you totally. The OP comment doesn't seem like a normal thing for people to say and is rather tone deaf IMO. I could make ten times more than what I do now and would still notice yogurt being 80% more in our grocery. Luckily for me I don't have to budget when it comes to groceries, but I'm well aware of how much pain some people/families must be going through.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by NovaDudely on Friday March 24, 2023 @05:51PM (#35296137)
I think growing up in poverty definitely instilled a sense of 'keep a track of every dollar!'. The one good thing I did was, my income has gone up but my spending has not. So even though I could move up in terms of buying power, I have instead bough - a very little bit - of comfort via stability.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by kbelder on Friday March 24, 2023 @06:39PM (#35296642)
Even if you don't care about a few dollars, careless excess spending can drive prices up.

I don't care, really, whether the box of macaroni and cheese I buy is $0.35 or $1.69. But I'll tend to buy the cheaper, just because I don't want to contribute to the success of the higher price point. It's my fight for the common man.

All my efforts are completely negated when my wife goes shopping :(

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by chasd00 on Friday March 24, 2023 @05:25PM (#35295780)
on a tangent, either buy fresh tortillas (the package should be very warm, almost hot) or make your own. Get some good tortillas and you'll want the others outlawed as a crime against humanity. I'm fairly anti-government but i would be ok if a law was passed in the fine state of Texas requiring all restaurants to make their own tortillas fresh when ordered.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by tonguetrainer on Friday March 24, 2023 @05:57PM (#35296205)
Interesting point. With high inflation and many professions being made obsolete by AI, cooking and baking authentic cultural foods at home may become the new obsession.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by tomxor on Friday March 24, 2023 @06:21PM (#35296474)
Flour and sugar based products are both absurdly high profit margin and the cause of the obesity pandemic (not a coincidence), you could make your own stuff for cheap, or just cut so the majority of flour based products from your diet - either option is a positive direction.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by tiborsaas on Monday March 27, 2023 @05:05AM (#35324484)
This weekend I got a pack of 4 for $4.18 in Budapest ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by kderbyma on Friday March 24, 2023 @12:15PM (#35291237)
most definitely. the wealthy are parasites beyond 1-2 magnitude of difference.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by za3faran on Friday March 24, 2023 @12:54PM (#35291940)
I'm not defending their actions, but they're exploiting the underlying broken and usurious financial system that is using fiat money that can be printed at will. The system is working as designed.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by uejfiweun on Friday March 24, 2023 @01:15PM (#35292264)
Paid $5.50 for a freaking bag of flaming hot cheetos yesderday. It's insane.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by Nifty3929 on Friday March 24, 2023 @01:33PM (#35292614)
The fix is to produce more stuff. It's that simple. It might not be easy though. It would require us to focus on production, remove barriers, streamline regulations, encourage and actively celebrate production.

It seems these days we're ambivalent toward the production of stuff, or even antagonistic to it in many cases. So we have less stuff. Combine this with giving people more money and you get inflation.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by prottog on Friday March 24, 2023 @01:44PM (#35292831)
> It seems these days we're ambivalent toward the production of stuff, or even antagonistic to it in many cases.

I cannot emphasize this enough. Wealthy Western nations have been wealthy for so long that people know how to cut up the pie in different sizes more so than they know how to bake more.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by scoofy on Friday March 24, 2023 @03:35PM (#35294345)
The negative moralizing of other people existing is genuinely out of control in California. From housing, to transportation, to climate change, to conservation, the major cities just causally like to pretend that if we can may other people go away, it'll solve our problems. It's thrown around causally like it's the state of nature, or an actual workable solution to anything.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by rhacker on Friday March 24, 2023 @03:56PM (#35294581)
I think the basis for this feeling is that people keep moving here. We feel it when traffic gets worse, etc... Not really sure IF there's a real solution. The more people there are, the worse things get in small spaces. We have an entire country that is mostly empty.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by zeroonetwothree on Friday March 24, 2023 @04:55PM (#35295344)
California is mostly empty too. It's larger than Japan and has almost 3x fewer people.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by dragonwriter on Friday March 24, 2023 @04:59PM (#35295398)
Japan actually has about 3.25× California’s population. OTOH, California has a lot more land area that is, say, desert than Japan does, so there’s that (it also has a lot more that is controlled by a separate sovereign; 47.7% of California is federal land.)
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by prottog on Friday March 24, 2023 @05:39PM (#35295961)
The federally-owned land in California is mostly deserts and mountains.

Besides, even if we're generous and say that half of California is too mountainous to live in and another quarter is too desert-y to live in, leaving only a quarter of the state's area suitable for habitation, that leaves roughly 40 million people living in roughly 40,000 square miles, or about a thousand heads per square mile. That's comparable to Israel or Belgium in terms of population density, and certainly not as though people are packing into Kowloon.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by rcpt on Friday March 24, 2023 @11:16PM (#35298930)
Hell, even Los Angeles is mostly empty

https://noparkinghere.com/

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by sampo on Friday March 24, 2023 @05:45PM (#35296064)
> I think the basis for this feeling is that people keep moving here. We feel it when traffic gets worse

A city in Japan would build new dense neighborhoods and a new commuter rail line to serve them. A city in California would refuse to build new homes nearby, so people are forced to live in a far-away suburb and commute 2 hours by car. Then Californians complain about increasing traffic congestion.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by rhacker on Friday March 24, 2023 @06:02PM (#35296270)
https://www.reddit.com/r/movingtojapan/comments/7g9n6e/music...

https://www.reddit.com/r/ImTheMainCharacter/comments/11aqayg...

Japanese people are NOTHING like Americans. Stop saying CA should build like Japan unless you're willing to kick out the loud assholes.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by 76SlashDolphin on Friday March 24, 2023 @07:01PM (#35296835)
Japan may have a lot of problems but as a generally quiet person, I respect that attitude and wish it was more of a norm here in the UK.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by ericbarrett on Saturday March 25, 2023 @01:04AM (#35299621)
Construction zones in Japan have barriers erected around them with digital noise meters (in decibels). Painted next to the meters are the legal limits, and a phone number to call the authorities if they're exceeded. Try that in the U.S.!
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by patrick451 on Friday March 24, 2023 @06:32PM (#35296575)
Yeah, but you can't move to the empty space either. People will complain that's a desert and nobody should be allowed to live there cuz water. Or that its uninhabitable because the current population is distasteful to coastal sensibilities. Or it's too hot and humid or too cold and windy. Or whatever.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by dehrmann on Friday March 24, 2023 @01:50PM (#35292918)
So much of what supermarkets sell is commoditized that this doesn't work. Toothpaste is in a very different place than EVs.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by Nifty3929 on Friday March 24, 2023 @03:16PM (#35294099)
Commodities need to be produced as well. The more we produce, the more we will have. Giving people more money does not produce any additional bread or tomatoes.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by andy_ppp on Saturday March 25, 2023 @03:24AM (#35300320)
But we didn’t give people more money, there was the largest in history redistribution of wealth from the poor to the rich. I really don’t believe supply is 100% the problem here and there’s just no need for 20% hikes on some goods. The compound interest on this is insane 1 -> 1.20 -> 1.44 -> 1.728 —> 2.0736 so more than doubling in cost every 5 years.

People seem to think inflation is temporary but it seems much more stubborn and central banks are very scared of it, hence rate rises when the banks might collapse.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by moffkalast on Friday March 24, 2023 @02:26PM (#35293451)
There's no incentive to produce more stuff if you can just price gouge your current supply for equal or more profit with less manufacturing investment. Especially for necessities like electronics or food where your entire supply will be sold regardless.

You might say there's then an incentive to undercut, sure, but if you undercut too much you'll be left with no inventory as the rest of the manufacturers decide on fixed prices as a cartel (which has now become the norm in most industries). The trust busting has been nowhere to be seen in the last decades and the results are in.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by Nifty3929 on Friday March 24, 2023 @04:15PM (#35294822)
Why not? Surely if you can get away with price gouging, then you would want to price gouge on more stuff, right? Of course, there are diminishing returns here, because as you produce more stuff, you might be able to gouge less and less. But certainly there must be some max-profit equilibrium higher than the current price, if you are already able to gouge.

Price gouging usually leads to producing more stuff, if it goes on long enough and you are allowed to produce more.

Healthcare is an example where this doesn't work, because you aren't allowed to produce more stuff. You can gouge all you want, but can't provide any additional quantity of services. (See: Certificate of Need laws in the US)

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by taurath on Friday March 24, 2023 @05:37PM (#35295938)
Supermarkets in my area have a near monopoly and don’t meaningfully compete anymore - they can charge whatever people will pay. It’s all owned by Kroger and the nearest non Kroger supermarket is a dozen miles away.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by s1artibartfast on Friday March 24, 2023 @06:40PM (#35296649)
There's a supply and there's demand. Prices will continue to increase as long as people demand the goods and are willing to pay the price.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by BirdieNZ on Friday March 24, 2023 @08:55PM (#35297864)
How much are you willing to pay for the basic necessities of life, life land, shelter, food, water?

If the providers of those necessities possess a monopoly, either natural or through regulatory capture, humans will pay whatever they have to get those necessities. It is important for social prosperity to prevent extracting excess profits through monopolisation, either by destroying the monopoly or by taxing it and reducing other taxes on the individuals.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by bumby on Saturday March 25, 2023 @10:59AM (#35303277)
Grocery chains are notoriously low-margin businesses though. Maybe a few places are able to gouge, but as a whole, they cannot and still be low-margin as an industry.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by m000 on Monday March 27, 2023 @07:04AM (#35325150)
Having a low absolute profit margin compared to other business does not mean that doubling it should not count as price gouging.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by bumby on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @12:58PM (#35344196)
I think you're misinterpreting my point.

If they doubled the price consistently, they would no longer be a low margin business. The fact that they are low margin is evidence that they are not gouging.

I think there's also a misperception of the public on a lot of items. Many of the dramatic price increases we see are deferred inflation from not raising prices (and subsequently eating the added supplier cost). We generally don't see steady 2-5% price increases every year, but rather large step increases every few years. Many of those step increases are catching up for the previous years where there was no increase.

FWIW, I'm not saying there isn't opportunism going on, but it's much less likely in low-margin commodity businesses.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by staunton on Friday March 24, 2023 @06:34PM (#35296598)
In many countries there is a tendency in healthcare to perform a lot of medically unnecessary or even harmful surgeries (back, hips,...) to make a larger profit. The optimal treatment would be cheaper and less profitable, so it is not chosen.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by dukeofdoom on Friday March 24, 2023 @11:48PM (#35299128)
Hospitals kill people all the time. Especially elderly. Many treatments are invasive and cause complications. They won't catch the complication until it's too late, or now you have two compounding medical problems, and many elderly can't survive that. The medical bias is the sicker you are, the stronger intervention / medicine you need.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by bumby on Saturday March 25, 2023 @10:57AM (#35303257)
I think there are other factors that contribute to the uniqueness of healthcare. In the US, for example, it seems to be the one area where you aren't told the price before receiving the product/service. This obviously makes it easier to jack up the prices. Also, the urgent need often makes people insensitive to the price even if they knew it.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by MagicMoonlight on Friday March 24, 2023 @06:10PM (#35296346)
Yes yes fellow consumers. We should remove consumer protections and lower corporation taxes! Then I’m sure the companies will treat us better!
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by andy_ppp on Saturday March 25, 2023 @03:14AM (#35300274)
I know, the rich have never been richer and the poor keep getting poorer. Where is the trickle down we were promised?
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by andromeduck on Saturday March 25, 2023 @08:04AM (#35301822)
Let's tax our way out of a famine.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by bumby on Saturday March 25, 2023 @11:03AM (#35303324)
This constant dichotomy in rhetoric is toxic to finding solutions. Surely, it's not an "either/or" scenario.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by andromeduck on Saturday March 25, 2023 @02:40PM (#35305654)
at the social level capacity matters a lot more than money but everyone wants to subsidise demand rather than facilitating supply
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by bumby on Saturday March 25, 2023 @02:53PM (#35305824)
All you did is restate the same dichotomy. Complex systems in the real-world are almost always too complex for such a simplistic take.

For example, just enabling additional supply can create second order effects in terms of perverse incentives to overproduce creating all sorts of knock-on effects. We can stimulate the supply of corn and end up with distorted food markets and high-fructose corn syrup as a near-ubiquitous food additive. All I’m saying is we need to be mindful of these systemic effects and creating a false dichotomy tends to turn a blind eye towards them.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by andromeduck on Saturday March 25, 2023 @03:39PM (#35306361)
Did I say subsidize supply?
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by bumby on Saturday March 25, 2023 @04:41PM (#35307097)
Did I use the word subsidy?
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by andromeduck on Saturday March 25, 2023 @04:44PM (#35307130)
You basically did.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by bumby on Saturday March 25, 2023 @05:49PM (#35307800)
It’s interesting (and telling) that is what you inferred from that. You can replace corn with a non-subsidized commodity/service and the principle still holds.

Any mechanism with the explicit intent to increase supply is tantamount to a subsidy. Tax breaks are an informal “subsidy” to spur business, with a cost incurred by other societal goals. Decreasing environmental regulations are an informal subsidy to increase energy production with externalities borne by others. Etc etc. The broader point is that defining the utility function that captures these societal costs/benefits is complex and your false dichotomy misses all that nuance.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by andy_ppp on Saturday March 25, 2023 @11:28AM (#35303596)
You’re an idiot, we should tax the wealthy, take half the money of people with £1bn+ (including the King) and pay off the national debt or force them to invest it in small businesses.

We should not equate rent seeking and genuine innovation as the same things.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by andromeduck on Saturday March 25, 2023 @02:17PM (#35305398)
except people with 1b+ these days dpfjy have money - they have assets whose value will plummet when you ido that
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by bumby on Saturday March 25, 2023 @11:06AM (#35303362)
We have to be careful about how we define our utility function. I'd argue that it's not as simple as just "producing more stuff" but rather being able to focus on producing "more of the right stuff." All production increase is not the same, unless your goal is just "more GDP." Rather, I think what a lot of this discussion alludes to is that more blind production does not necessarily lead to better quality of life (what we really care about in general).
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by oatmeal1 on Friday March 24, 2023 @02:18PM (#35293363)
> I wonder if inequality increases caused by printing trillions of dollars during COVID are anything to do with this inflation? Could it be that making the rich endless more wealthy and increasing asset prices is bad for society?

Making billionaires more wealthy doesn't affect inflation much because they are already consuming as much as they want. That money will just increase the price of stocks and bonds - whatever billionaires invest in.

Giving every average Joe a thousand more dollars will increase spending by nearly that amount per person and prices of goods will increase.

Giving money to people who need money is part of the solution, but the biggest part of the solution is making sure human productivity (GDP) is going to make things that make people's lives better.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by manojlds on Friday March 24, 2023 @02:30PM (#35293509)
Why is no one talking about Brexit in this whole equation? Yeah world is facing the brunt, but UK more so.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by kumoflow on Friday March 24, 2023 @05:15PM (#35295643)
Because all of europe is in the same or worse place? No matter how much remainers want to blame brexit for everything, it isnt’t always the case. Central europe is around or a few points less than the um while easter and western europe are higher

https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/11zwtif/annual_infl...

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by manojlds on Friday March 24, 2023 @07:09PM (#35296893)
That's ok, but UK literally ran out of tomatoes, eggs and many other items
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by redeeman on Friday March 24, 2023 @10:41PM (#35298695)
and in denmark the news cycle has just included how all pharmacies are sold out of certain types of diabetes drugs... which is worse?
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by vsl on Saturday March 25, 2023 @02:54AM (#35300166)
Central Europe: eggs price skyrocketed earlier this year (= supply shortage, aka “ran out”, due to bird flu prevention orders). Medical supplies shortage and running out of some medicines completely.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by realjhol on Friday March 24, 2023 @05:41PM (#35296010)
This isnt true though. The remainer narrative is being falsified in real time.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by varispeed on Friday March 24, 2023 @02:56PM (#35293839)
Some supermarkets also have predatory practices to coerce people into using their data harvesting programs.

Like you pay £1.5 for essential product if you scan a card otherwise it is £3.

These should be made illegal.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by lozenge on Friday March 24, 2023 @05:12PM (#35295606)
It's not even about the data harvesting, it's because the £1.50 is a "promotional" price and that means they no longer need to display the unit price.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by jseliger on Friday March 24, 2023 @03:49PM (#35294488)
It would help to remove many regulatory barriers to building housing and commercial structures of any kind: https://www.centreforcities.org/publication/the-housebuildin...
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by tokamak-teapot on Friday March 24, 2023 @04:03PM (#35294669)
Two of the most well-known toothpaste brands in the UK are still selling their most 'basic' toothpastes for 100ml for £1, which I don't think is much of a rise on what it's been for the last few years (I think I used to get 125ml for that price).

People on modest salaries either don't spot the cheaper, just-as-good toothpaste that's not as prominent, they think that it's not as good as the ones with lists of all the great things they're supposed to do, or they aren't feeling the squeeze enough to seek it out.

If you drop into an independent chemist you might notice that sometimes the only toothpaste they stock is the 'basic' one, because their customers are price-sensitive, so that's all they'll buy.

Going rate for pizza is around 60p/100g, with a larger than average Aldi 'Meat Feast' pizza coming in at £2.19, which is 39p/100g.

Again, if you're on a 'modest salary', you pick the cheaper products or pick the supermarkets which only really sell the cheaper products.

I'm not saying that prices aren't going up, just that closer to the 'survival' line, there is much less room to increase prices, because people aren't at the point of choosing based on preference, so you can't rely on them switching to a slightly cheaper option from your artificially differentiated product line (yes, you, Colgate-Palmolive). They'll just be forced to stop buying your products altogether.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by louloulou on Friday March 24, 2023 @04:54PM (#35295322)
> most 'basic' toothpastes for 100ml for £1, which I don't think is much of a rise on what it's been for the last few years (I think I used to get 125ml for that price).

Going from 125mL to 100mL for the same price => 20% price inflation.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by hanoz on Friday March 24, 2023 @05:22PM (#35295744)
The proportion of my local supermarket given over to toothpaste is mind blowing. It's like the beginnings of some sort of Brontitallian Shoe Event Horizon.

For what is essentially just a mild abrasive plus fluoride, the baffling array of variations on a theme on display, mostly from the same few fmcg conglomerates anyway, is just ridiculous.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by moltar on Friday March 24, 2023 @05:51PM (#35296132)
It’s probably a strategy. They overwhelm you with choice. So you end up with some simple heuristic like more expensive is better. Get something middle of the pack and you are still overpaying 200%.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by tokamak-teapot on Friday March 24, 2023 @05:24PM (#35295776)
Yes, which would seem around in line with inflation. I was replying to a comment talking about seeing toothpaste for £5, which gives the impression that perhaps the price of toothpaste has rocketed past that of inflation, which doesn’t appear to be the case.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by 88913527 on Friday March 24, 2023 @04:55PM (#35295351)
There's other dimensions than the quality of the toothpaste. The dispenser provides a significantly better usability experience if you're willing to spend an extra $1. The cheapest toothpastes are screw caps that can fall on the floor and take a few moments take off and put on. The hinged pop open/closed interface is simpler.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by tokamak-teapot on Friday March 24, 2023 @05:26PM (#35295802)
The point was about the rise in prices across the spectrum of available products vs those that would be expected given inflation figures. But thanks for the tube tip!
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by mrkwse on Friday March 24, 2023 @05:10PM (#35295571)
For me the actual dark pattern in pricing is when prices remain fixed but quantity/volume really reduces. It's subtle on the aisle, but if you use online shopping it's blatant when the product you usually order is no longer available and it suggests an item that is identical in terms of the product it is and price, but has a glaring reduction in weight.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by mbar84 on Friday March 24, 2023 @05:20PM (#35295711)
aka. "shrinkflation": Same price, less product.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by datavirtue on Friday March 24, 2023 @08:05PM (#35297404)
Sort of. My Noosa is still 8oz but it is thinner. Now that's some bean countin' bullshit.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by iancmceachern on Friday March 24, 2023 @08:36PM (#35297696)
That stuff is so good, best yogurt ever
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by GeekyBear on Friday March 24, 2023 @07:27PM (#35297071)
> I’ve seen £5 for a tube of normal toothpaste and £6 for a tiny Pizza that is sometimes available for £3. How people on modest salaries survive I don’t know.

I took up cooking from scratch as a hobby a couple of decades ago. I highly recommend it.

After a bit of a learning curve, it's cheaper, tastier. and better for you than highly processed foodlike substances.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by lifeisstillgood on Friday March 24, 2023 @08:13PM (#35297466)
I have learnt to unpack a few things here.

Firstly cooking from scratch is absolutely a life skill and nominally cheaper.

But food is also a class issue. Those with time to spare (ie rich) can indulge in for example "stuffing a mushroom" - Shirley Conran famously recanted twenty years of writing cookery lifestyle books exhorting women to become corden bleu cooks by saying life was to short to stuff a mushroom - and that is kind of my point.

I mean Gordon bloody Ramsey does not prepare food the way he tells you to in his cookbooks - it's too slow and inefficient.

All the recipies I love to cook - getting the temperature of the linguini just right before pouring over eggs and pecorino for carbonara for instance - is frankly, a nightmare nutrition wise (even if it's a hit kid wise) and a plate of chicken breast and five different veg and fruit for after is waaaay better - but how many recipients books will do that, how many blog posts extoll boiled peas.

Maybe we would learn from the staff of life - Bread. In the first weeks of lockdown, flour vanished from shelves - obviously because of a shortage but mostly because flour was diverted from domestic use to go to actual bakers and factories who could efficiently mass produce the staple of life that was then shipped to our supermarket shelves to eat. Yes there were bakers running triple shifts, logistic planners sleeping in the office and HVV drivers going every which way. But in the end feeding millions is like Gorden Ramsey says - if you do it like the instagram post says, you are doing it wrong

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by GeekyBear on Friday March 24, 2023 @09:04PM (#35297952)
> Those with time to spare... how many blog posts extoll boiled peas

I recommend you start with an instant pot. You can go from dried legumes to the table in very little time.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by wahern on Friday March 24, 2023 @10:21PM (#35298524)
> Firstly cooking from scratch is absolutely a life skill and nominally cheaper.

> But food is also a class issue.

If we put these two beliefs together (and I think we're of similar minds), I think we should amend the first to be "meal planning is a life skill". Unfortunately the cooking craze over the past few decades has done nothing to improve, let alone restore, that life skill.

> I mean Gordon bloody Ramsey does not prepare food the way he tells you to in his cookbooks - it's too slow and inefficient.

Here I disagree. Someone like Gordon Ramsey possesses incredible knife and other preparatory and cooking skills. To use an analogy, he may not run a sub 4 minute mile every time he goes for a run, but even his leisurely runs would exhibit abilities that would seem extraordinary yet appear effortless on his part to most people.

That said, as a successful restaurateur Ramsey likely has meal planning skills at least as impeccable as his culinary skills. And meal planning is the most critical aspect to successful, economical home cooking. People seem to think the reason for failure is difficulty in preparation and cooking, thus the popularity of slow cookers, instant pots, etc. But such gadgets address the wrong set of problems. (The emphasis on recipes is misplaced for similar reasons.)

FWIW, I have horrible meal planning skills. Developing a good sense for how to mix and match ingredients is one important aspect; among other reasons, so you can reuse ingredients across multiple meals in a week. Relatedly, learning specific styles of cuisines and their rules also helps--French, Spanish, and Italian cooking all commonly use what in Spanish-influenced cuisine is called a sofrito. But there are many other dimensions to meal planning.

On that note, anyone know of good meal planning books or resources?

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by cesarosum on Saturday March 25, 2023 @06:31AM (#35301281)
If you're not shy of a few swear words, Nat's What I Reckon has some great recipes that are straightforward. Here's link to his bolognese - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw_Ze9zIafM
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by sincarne on Saturday March 25, 2023 @08:57AM (#35302206)
I bought a couple of the Budget Bytes (https://shop.budgetbytes.com) meal plans a while back. They're not fantastic if you're outside of North America, but I was able to make them work. Haute cuisine it ain't, but if you're looking for a starting point I recommend them.

I also recommend starting to put your favourite recipes into a recipe app (I use Paprika, available on most platforms). Even add simple stuff like Yogurt and Fruit Breakfast. Then you can use the app's built-in meal planner and grocery list generator.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by b3nji on Friday March 24, 2023 @07:55PM (#35297292)
Na, that's crazy talk. Of course the government printing oodles of money has absolutely nothing to do with inflation.

oBViOUSLy tHE rUSsIANs dID it ;p

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by notfed on Saturday March 25, 2023 @02:05AM (#35299946)
I don't think "randomly increasing prices" counts as a dark pattern. It's just a plain and simple economic pattern.

The only reason some companies are able to get away with this is because too many people shop mindlessly without checking prices.

The solution is for everyone to pay attention to prices when we shop: the brands who jump their prices up will have 0 customers.

I'm not saying it's easy, and perhaps grocery store price labelling isn't maximally effective, but when we shop frugally, we actually benefit not only ourselves, but each other.